Czech Republic 1-0 Ireland post match discussion thread

[cheifo]

Fair play to your Lads Cymro.Toshack the genius?:)

[shakermaker1982]

Bellamy by all accounts had a blinder, I saw one of his goals and his pace left the defender for dead. Toshack has a bit of breathing space after that fine win I'd imagine.

[gwhite]

Not sure if Toshack is a genius but it certainly goes to show what a decent manager with a limited squad of players can do. If we had a decent manager, we'd be wiping the floor with the Slovakia's and Cyprus' of this world, home and away, and we'd be taking 4 points off of the Czechs too.

[Cymro]

Well at the moment it's going: good performance; bad performance; good; bad etc. We have 3 more games, so we're due a poor one when we play you going by the above, which I call Toshack's third law of inconsistency.

So expect us to flop spectacularly when we meet in Cardiff after having put a record 25 past San Marino and prior to that having repeated our most recent performance in Nicosia, against Cyprus away.

And yes, Bellamy had a great game, if not for him we may well not have even won never mind 5-2.

[soccerc]

View from Sweden


I’m by no means a religious man, but tonight showed not only that there is a God, but that he has two distinctive characteristics- he likes his football, and he’s one vindictive *******.



http://www.chatsoccer.eu/blog/

[Maroon 7]

and well done to Scotland. Fantastic result, by sounds of it they were well organised at the back.

There's the magic word. They are organised properly all over the pitch and their best players are played in their best positions.

[hoops1]

Looking at them tonight i think they have better players man for man

[Maroon 7]

Looking at them tonight i think they have better players man for man

Go through their team. I don't believe they have. The only area where they seem stronger than us is in central midfield where they have Ferguson and Brown.

Their strikers tonight were McFadden (Everton benchwarmer) and O'Connor (don't see him scoring much at Birmingham). We have two strikers who are regular goalscorers in the Premiership (albeit Doyle for only one season).

McManus and Davie Weir (who must be 43 by now) in central defence (are they any better than Dunne and McShane?)

Given v Gordon

[dodgycanadian]

cant even remember how many times the commentator on bwin had even said how ireland had no organization in the second half. by the 80th minute it was kamikaze type stuff, everyone just running chasing the ball like an under 7s match

[Cymro]

how can you say that? There is a chronic shortage of talent if this is the best we can pick. Shay Given and Robbie Keane (sometimes) and maybe Finnan are the only world class players in there. The absent Duff hasnt been world class in about 4 years. The rest are bottom of premiership, Championship and League One bog-standard players.

Nick Colgan - Barnsley
Colin Doyle - Birmingham City
Shay Given - Newcastle United
Wayne Henderson - Preston North End
Richard Dunne - Manchester City
Steve Finnan - Liverpool
Kevin Foley - Wolverhampton Wanderers
Stephen Kelly - Birmingham City
Paul McShane - Sunderland
John O’Shea - Manchester United
Lee Carsley - Everton
Jonathon Douglas - Leeds United
Darron Gibson - Manchester United
Stephen Hunt - Reading
Stephen Ireland - Manchester City
Kevin Kilbane - Wigan Athletic
Aiden McGeady - Celtic
Alan O’Brien - Hibernian
Darren Potter - Wolverhampton Wanderers
Andy Reid - Charlton Athletic
Kevin Doyle - Reading
Robbie Keane - Tottenham Hotspur
Andy Keogh - Wolverhampton Wanderers
Shane Long - Reading
Daryl Murphy - Sunderland

Why are Scotland beating France? Because they have a decent domestic league with 2 teams that qualify regularly for the CL. That allows them to nurture and develop their talent. Until the FAI come along and try to take it off them.

Why are Wales worse than us (with a very similar standard squad)? They have an even worse domestic league than us. Due to an agreement made with the english FA back in the 50's (i think) which coincidentally was the last time that Wales had a successful international team.

How can everyone just ignore the problem when its so f*ckin obvious? Blame Stan or O'Shea or whoever if you want but its not going to make a blind bit of difference until we get football at home sorted out. Mark my words.

biscuit - sorry man, i knew what you meant but i had to say what i did.

It's not as simple as just having a good league. Good footballing nations often have comparitively crappy leagues and vice versa. The Russian league is a top 10 European league, Russia are not a top 10 European team. The SPL is a top 10 European league, Scotland (in spite of recent results) are probably not a top 10 European team, although they are closer than Russia.

Ireland and Wales both have leagues ranked in the bottom 15/20 of Europe and yet have better national sides than that by comparison.

I would say the reason we are both currently failing at international football is largely down to the fact that a smaller percentage of our population plays football as a first sport than a lot of other European nations. Although we still do reasonably well considering our pitiful overall populations (4 and 3 million respectively). Scotland have a similar population but football is by far the biggest sport there.

Anyway, here, it's the rugby that stops us from succeeding, over in Ireland, it's probably a combination of Gaelic sports and rugby. That's the way I see it anyway. We'll always have good and bad teams in patches no matter how much money is pumped into our leagues because no one plays the bleeding game.

[FarmHoop]

It's not as simple as just having a good league. Good footballing nations often have comparitively crappy leagues and vice versa. The Russian league is a top 10 European league, Russia are not a top 10 European team. The SPL is a top 10 European league, Scotland (in spite of recent results) are probably not a top 10 European team, although they are closer than Russia.

Ireland and Wales both have leagues ranked in the bottom 15/20 of Europe and yet have better national sides than that by comparison.

I would say the reason we are both currently failing at international football is largely down to the fact that a smaller percentage of our population plays football as a first sport than a lot of other European nations. Although we still do reasonably well considering our pitiful overall populations (4 and 3 million respectively). Scotland have a similar population but football is by far the biggest sport there.

Anyway, here, it's the rugby that stops us from succeeding, over in Ireland, it's probably a combination of Gaelic sports and rugby. That's the way I see it anyway. We'll always have good and bad teams in patches no matter how much money is pumped into our leagues because no one plays the bleeding game.

Yeah but it would help not having our players leave for england before having a try at the irish level

[Trainee]

with a decent manager we would had a great chance to quailfiy out of this group for euro 2008, lets hope the Fai see sense and sack stan before our chance of getting to the world cup are finished

stan out:mad:

[soccerc]

with a decent manager we would had a great chance to quailfiy out of this group for euro 2008, lets hope the Fai see sense and sack stan before our chance of getting to the world cup are finished

stan out:mad:

As Liam Brady cuttingly pointed out it's not the FAi but one man:D

[billybunter]

its not unfair. We get what we deserve. As a country we deserve no success as we simply do not give a sh1t about Irish football. I know this probably isnt the time or the place but Irish people need to get up off their fat lazy arses and start supporting domestic club soccer if they want international success anytime in the next 20 years. The influx of foreigners to the premiership is killing our hopes of allowing English football to develop our players. The government with our "soccer mad taoiseach" needs to invest in domestic soccer. The FAI needs to ensure this happens. The Irish people need to get up and start being real football supporters. If the domestic game thrives, the international team thrives.

Look at our players - in the past there would be no Celtic fringe (occasionally good) player like McGeady near the squad, there would be no League One player in the squad - Jack and Mick barely played Championship players ffs. We can not rely on the Premiership anymore

Stan is not the problem. He shouldnt be there but he is not the problem. Irish football is ROTTEN from the inside out. From the FAI to the barstool.

The solution? It will take years no matter what direction it goes. My suggestion - start supporting the domestic game. Not just the barstoolers - EVERYONE - the Govt., the FAI, everyone. Sure we may finish third seeds this time round but its not going to be any better next time round.

jaysus - just what i need - the eircom league 'martyrs" stirrung up the 'we're the only fans" . will ya ever for once and for all foook off....... ye're great - you gi top finn harps on a wet tuesday night with only a cup of bovril, and down to cork, and over to limerick, blah, blah, blah..... good luck - yiz are gettin annoying with the same old shiite.

[hoops1]

Have to say i think some of the players arent up to it aswell as the manager

[Stuttgart88]

Dunphy's finest hour as a broadcaster tonight. Agreed with every word for a change.

[SkStu]

jaysus - just what i need - the eircom league 'martyrs" stirrung up the 'we're the only fans" . will ya ever for once and for all foook off....... ye're great - you gi top finn harps on a wet tuesday night with only a cup of bovril, and down to cork, and over to limerick, blah, blah, blah..... good luck - yiz are gettin annoying with the same old shiite.

i never once said that "we are the only fans". What absolute garbage. I said that we cannot rely on the Premiership to develop our players anymore. A solution to that problem is to invest in and develop our domestic game so we can develop our own players and have our teams (with majority Irish born players) qualifying for Champions League and so on and so on. To do that we need 1) Government investment 2) FAI to ensure this happens and apply it professionally and 3) Irish people to start supporting their local team.

If you cant agree with even the jist of what i stated then you are thick and deserve to be hurting tonight and you will be for years to come.

edit: BB, how good would it be for the Irish international team if we had 10-15 Irish born players to cheer for in the CL every year than just Finnan and O'Shea? Actually forgetting the international team for a second, the most simple question is how good would it feel for us soccer fans to have 10-15 irish CL players to cheer on each year??

[conlonn]

Ref was a disgrace tonight, Hunt' tackle was not even a free kick!
Stan will not be sacked, be kept on by goon John Delaney,
What to hope for in the future, Stan learns from mistakes, hopefully he learns from these harrowing experiences and does better int hte next qualifiying campaign when we are third seeds and have an easier qualifying group. The three lads on RTE (Giles, Dunphy & Brady were all spot on in their remarks) Shows how bad Sovakia are when Wales thump hem 5-2 away!!!!!.
I wish Stan would go but he is young and thinks he needs hte job at this stgae in his career. But he shoudl stand aside and let someone better takover, but who is there???????? Is there anyone at that price? So let him stay on for next campaign hopefully he will learn but if I played soccer for Ireland I would not like him as manager. I have have good and bad managers at work and it makes some difference to your perfomance and the same is happening to the Ireland soccer team.

Yours in hope,
Soccer fan

[Closed Account 2]

"We are in a building process. I said that from day one. It's coming along nicely," said the Irish manager.

Low and behold he comes out with this beauty.

Yeah we're building sand-castles, every match the tide washes them away... time to go Stan, you were a good player and thanks for that.

[Stuttgart88]

How did Azerbaijan do?

[rambler14]

Worst ref ever. Hunts red card was a worse decision than Kilbanes red card last week for wigan and that was bad. Oh and has been confirmed whether Jankolovski was booked twice. I hope he was because that means that the ref will never be allowed to ref an international match again. I wouldn't wish that ref on anyone even the English.
P.S- Fair play to Scotland. Great win away from home.

[Closed Account 2]

How did Azerbaijan do?

Cancelled due to civil war with Armenia

[billybunter]

i never once said that "we are the only fans". What absolute garbage. I said that we cannot rely on the Premiership to develop our players anymore. A solution to that problem is to invest in and develop our domestic game so we can develop our own players and have our teams (with majority Irish born players) qualifying for Champions League and so on and so on. To do that we need 1) Government investment 2) FAI to ensure this happens and apply it professionally and 3) Irish people to start supporting their local team.

If you cant agree with even the jist of what i stated then you are thick and deserve to be hurting tonight and you will be for years to come.

edit: BB, how good would it be for the Irish international team if we had 10-15 Irish born players to cheer for in the CL every year than just Finnan and O'Shea? Actually forgetting the international team for a second, the most simple question is how good would it feel for us soccer fans to have 10-15 irish CL players to cheer on each year??

i'm thick, and i'm hurtin. One question. do you think you wll see the day when irish lads will say "no im grand thaks mr. coppel, i'd rather stay at home and play for bray wanderers, because i'm still learning the game like, ........but thanks to reading for ther interest....fux sake - will you climb out of yor flask and smell the real world.....irish giovenment, eu, fai, local football. get a grip. talent lads will go to england, get over it - and forget anbout the FAS course to save the irish game.

[hoops1]

If you cant see how improving the national league would benefit the national team you need to lie down

[SkStu]

youre totally missing the point. Its a waste of time arguing with you if you dont even understand the point being made.

[billybunter]

youre totally missing the point. Its a waste of time arguing with you if you dont even understand the point being made.

tell me your point in one line then, and i'll reposnd.

respond even... : )

[strangeirish]

Sums it all up here (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/photo?slug=869bf570fec349a78c7e7d55e808337b.czech_ republic_euro_2008_ireland_soccer_lon835&prov=ap)...:(

[SkStu]

tell me your point in one line then, and i'll reposnd.

respond even... : )

how good would it be for the Irish international team if we had 10-15 Irish born players to cheer for in the CL every year instead of 1 or 2?

[FarmHoop]

As Liam Brady cuttingly pointed out it's not the FAi but one man:D

well done liam

[The Swordsman]

its not unfair. We get what we deserve. As a country we deserve no success as we simply do not give a sh1t about Irish football. I know this probably isnt the time or the place but Irish people need to get up off their fat lazy arses and start supporting domestic club soccer if they want international success anytime in the next 20 years. The influx of foreigners to the premiership is killing our hopes of allowing English football to develop our players. The government with our "soccer mad taoiseach" needs to invest in domestic soccer. The FAI needs to ensure this happens. The Irish people need to get up and start being real football supporters. If the domestic game thrives, the international team thrives.

Look at our players - in the past there would be no Celtic fringe (occasionally good) player like McGeady near the squad, there would be no League One player in the squad - Jack and Mick barely played Championship players ffs. We can not rely on the Premiership anymore

Stan is not the problem. He shouldnt be there but he is not the problem. Irish football is ROTTEN from the inside out. From the FAI to the barstool.

The solution? It will take years no matter what direction it goes. My suggestion - start supporting the domestic game. Not just the barstoolers - EVERYONE - the Govt., the FAI, everyone. Sure we may finish third seeds this time round but its not going to be any better next time round.

I think you're being naive if you believe that by supporting the domestic game, it will lead to a better international team. You'd need every man, woman and child going out at the weekend to support their local eircom league sides to even have a chance of competing against the big leagues of Europe. Unfortunately its a fact that most if not all of our best talent will end up in bigger leagues and to develop into top class internationals, that is exactly where they need to be. If you look at the greatest players that have ever played football, apart from Pele who retired in the 70s, all of them have played in the big leagues.

You are absolutely right about supporting our domestic game, but it's not the formula for guaranteeing success on the international stage.

[FarmHoop]

how good would it be for the Irish international team if we had 10-15 Irish born players to cheer for in the CL every year instead of 1 or 2?

point after point still noone is gettin your point, clueless

[Closed Account 2]

The alternative is, of course, Irish players could try and go to other top European leagues. Countries like Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Poland etc don't have leagues that are that strong. They rarely have teams in the group stages of the CL. But instead you find their players playing all across the top leagues in Europe.

I think if more Irish players played on the continent we would have a stronger team. The premier league, for all the hype and excitement, is not a very technical league, I'd argue the Bundesliga, French League, Serie A and Spanish League all breed a more technical set of players.

[FarmHoop]

The alternative is, of course, Irish players could try and go to other top European leagues. Countries like Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Poland etc don't have leagues that are that strong. They rarely have teams in the group stages of the CL. But instead you find their players playing all across the top leagues in Europe.

I think if more Irish players played on the continent we would have a stronger team. The premier league, for all the hype and excitement, is not a very technical league, I'd argue the Bundesliga, French League, Serie A and Spanish League all breed a more technical set of players.

We should try a long term plan to keep them here though, i do see your point though

[Réiteoir]

I think you're being naive if you believe that by supporting the domestic game, it will lead to a better international team. You'd need every man, woman and child going out at the weekend to support their local eircom league sides to even have a chance of competing against the big leagues of Europe. Unfortunately its a fact that most if not all of our best talent will end up in bigger leagues and to develop into top class internationals, that is exactly where they need to be.

You give me that spiel - and I'll show you Croatia, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Sweden, Belgium, Russia, and the Czechs

All have pretty well supported National Leagues - and decent top class players - majority of which still play, or have had long stints playing for clubs in their own National Leagues

[DaveyCakes]

How Did Azerbaijan do?

Cancelled due to civil war with Armenia

<pedantry>
A war between 2 countries isn't a civil war
</pedantry>

Back to the point, did somebody give the Ireland players the wrong kick off time for tonight, because they didn't show up until there was half an hour gone?

[Closed Account 2]

I'm all for long term plans, but a short/medium term one is needed too, otherwise football is in real danger of being sent into irreversible decline...

[FarmHoop]

I'm all for long term plans, but a short/medium term one is needed too, otherwise football is in real danger of being sent into irreversible decline...

if the fai was up to it we'd have both but we all know they havent a clue

[SkStu]

The alternative is, of course, Irish players could try and go to other top European leagues. Countries like Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Poland etc don't have leagues that are that strong. They rarely have teams in the group stages of the CL. But instead you find their players playing all across the top leagues in Europe.

I think if more Irish players played on the continent we would have a stronger team. The premier league, for all the hype and excitement, is not a very technical league, I'd argue the Bundesliga, French League, Serie A and Spanish League all breed a more technical set of players.

absolutely but its very easy to say, not so easy to do.

Ok, lets look at it this way.

The Way it is:
Promising young Irish player, has no options at home so goes to english team. Gets coached by english coach with english mentality. Maybe he gets lucky and breaks into the team but usually they dont. He has learnt how to play "the english way". Stays in England because 1) his style is suited to their game and 2) not technically good enough for a foreign league to be interested in. Kid usually drops down the leagues and comes home.

The Way it could be:
Promising young irish player has come through the FAI academy, based on Ajax (for the sake of argument) model. Irish teams competing regularly in europe with some degree of success so he decides to stay at home. His team qualifies for UEFA Cup or CL and the kid is noticed by Lyon or Bremen or whoever. Irish club gets decent offer and kid goes to Ligue 1, Bundesliga or whatever. The player, the FAI and the club all benefit leading to more investment etc etc

Think the Scandanavian way.

[FarmHoop]

absolutely but its very easy to say, not so easy to do.

Ok, lets look at it this way.

The Way it is:
Promising young Irish player, has no options at home so goes to english team. Gets coached by english coach with english mentality. Maybe he gets lucky and breaks into the team but usually they dont. He has learnt how to play "the english way". Stays in England because 1) his style is suited to their game and 2) not technically good enough for a foreign league to be interested in. Kid usually drops down the leagues and comes home.

The Way it could be:
Promising young irish player has come through the FAI academy, based on Ajax (for the sake of argument) model. Irish teams competing regularly in europe with some degree of success so he decides to stay at home. His team qualifies for UEFA Cup or CL and the kid is noticed by Lyon or Bremen or whoever. Irish club gets decent offer and kid goes to Ligue 1, Bundesliga or whatever. The player, the FAI and the club all benefit leading to more investment etc etc

Think the Scandanavian way.

Exactly

[DaveyCakes]

The first step has to be to get kids playing 5- or 7-a-side games on small pitches rather than having them slogging around on full-sized mudbaths trying to kick a ball that comes up to their knees.

[hoops1]

They already do

[SkStu]

The first step has to be to get kids playing 5- or 7-a-side games on small pitches rather than having them slogging around on full-sized mudbaths trying to kick a ball that comes up to their knees.

are ya mad?? the first step is to sack Staunton and then murder O'Shea!! ;) :D seriously though i couldnt agree more with that statement.

by the way, when a Bohs fan and a Rovers fan agree on something its usually right! ;)

[FarmHoop]

are ya mad?? the first step is to sack Staunton and then murder O'Shea!! ;) :D seriously though i couldnt agree more with that statement.

by the way, when a Bohs fan and a Rovers fan agree on something its usually right! ;)

ha ha at least some sense is said, but serouisly my brothers have a chance of being something decent an i dont wanna see them wasted im pushin them to go to rovers than overseas i think itll benefit them in the long run

[The Swordsman]

You give me that spiel - and I'll show you Croatia, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Sweden, Belgium, Russia, and the Czechs

All have pretty well supported National Leagues - and decent top class players - majority of which still play in their own National Leagues

Firstly, it's not spiel - just my opinion. I'm entitled to it, just like you.

Those countries are very like us - they don't always qualify for the major competitions. Invariably, when they do, their best players are usually playing in the big leagues.

It would be great if we could keep our top players playing here, but do you think that if McGrath,Keane, Brady and Giles had stayed in Ireland and played their entire careers in the LOI that they would be considered legends now.

Its late and maybe I'm missing the point, but if that's the case the point should be better made. No one has demonstrated here how a better supported league in this country would lead to a better international side.

[Naitch]

I agree fully with the Ajax comparison, look at France, didnt qulaify in USA94 they went on built an acadamy and won the thing 4 years later.

[hoops1]

Its late and maybe I'm missing the point, but if that's the case the point should be better made. No one has demonstrated here how a better supported league in this country would lead to a better international side.

Better support from public and Government = more money, improved grounds and training facilities
Creating a better standard League, Better players to come out of the league
More Kevin Doyles, Paul Mc Graths, Roy Keanes. etc etc
Better international team
Its not rocket science

[SkStu]

No one has demonstrated here how a better supported league in this country would lead to a better international side.

if you had read my posts you would know that its not just an argument about supporting the league. Its a number of factors including proper support of the league that will lead to a better national side. Support of the league will forllow if the correct structures are in place. Just one thing needs to change in order to do this.

Namely, the Govt., the FAI and the "football fans" in this country need to realise that we have the potential to shape our own destiny by using the domestic League as the vehicle for international success. And they should start doing that TODAY. well its a bit late today.. so... TOMORROW!

[Mayo_Bhoy]

People are forgetting thats it is not Stans fault. the root of the problem is a certain Mr Delaney of Merrion Square.

How the **** can you come out with rubbish like that? Yes, of course Delaney is responsible for the appointment of Stan, bu thow can you blame him for picking the team, tactics, substitutions etc???

[brine3]

Because, according to Delaney's judgment, Stan is a world class manager.

Clearly he was wrong and should be held accountable.

[pineapple stu]

Dunphy's an idiot. He never has anything good to say about anyone. every now and again, a person or sitaution will come along that you also have nothing good to say about, but that doesn't mean Dunphy's right when he disagrees with them.

Always said Staunton should never have been offered the job, but in his position, I'd have taken it. Blame lies further up, at Delaney.

That said, I actuslly think the last two (away) games have been a vast improvement on what went before.