Wes Hoolahan (M Cambridge Utd b.1982)

[geysir]

Irrespective of whether he was being facetious about Duff returning or not, why was 29/30 advanced as being too old for Hoolahan to get a look-in, but not for the likes of Given, Duff, Keane, Dunne, O'Shea, Doyle, Fahey, Kelly, Walters, Delaney, Green, Hunt and Lawrence who've all been selected despite being 29 or above at the time?
I'm not the mind reader you think I am :)

The question about Hoolahan was asked after the Euros. I guess Tardelli was thinking of the future from that point on, McCarthy? Meyler? Brady?
I guess Trap did not not rate Hoolahan for previous qual campaign for tactical reasons and dismissed his chances then of making the squad in various utterances.

Hoolahan was called up after Gibson 'retired' but it appeared that was as a token filler rather than anything else. There is also another aspect, Trap is serious about 'being right' and resorting to Hoolahan who was always available, would be an admission of sorts that he failed to see the qualities of this player. That's why I think Trap was hoping that the younger options would come good and hoping to whitewash Hoolahan out of existence. But Hoolahan is still there, still playing in the EPL.
Something similar also applies to Andy Reid who has done well to recover his form after a string of injuries. The Mainz scapegoat thing looks more and more absurd after all this time and the whole episode more reflects on the manager that he couldn't mend fences with Reid - who we are told from a reliable source - is a decent lad. Basically Trap was not interested in Reid as a player and it's as if he did not want the embarrassment of having a player with ability hanging around the squad.
So we are left with the sight of intelligent Andy Keogh coming on as a sub.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm not the mind reader you think I am :)

Know your meme (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pics-or-it-didnt-happen).

[mark12345]

Was Trap definitely at the game then? Pics or it didn't happen!

So Trap being at the game yesterday will produce a coupole of scenarios.

(a) Trap now sees how good Wes is and plays him against Greece and makes him a mainstay in his team

(b) If he does the above then it will show people the error of his ways and also show that he should have done it all along. It will also show that us supporters were correct about having Hoolahan included a long time ago (at least those of us who didn't keep saying that he didn't fit into the famous system of Trap's)

(c) why all of a sudden does Trap feel the need to go and see Hoolahan, when he claimed before that Wes wasn't part of his plans. Was it something the FAI demanded of him?

[geysir]

10/11 It was political gesture, genuinely not interested in Hoolahan/Pilks before or now
6/4 Looking for more excuses as to why Hoolahan is not a 'squad man', Pilks tainted by association.
4/1 the slate is clean of old attitudes - Trap prepared to look at Hoolahan/Pilks with objectivity.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think there's a single poster here who doesn't think Hoolahan has always been worthy of a squad place, especially since he was so instrumental in getting Norwich promoted. But Trap did have a system and Hoolahan didn't suit it, so that explained his absence. I think that 4 years in Trap is less convinced of the system as he was - if not he's blind to the evidence - so is looking at new ideas, at least partly due to FAI pressure and media pressure. What he actually decides to do is anyone's guess at this stage.

[geysir]

So you'll have a punt on the 4/1 option?
I'm reading Steve Jobs' biography, there was a strategy which Steve Jobs employed on more than one occasion. Once when he bought an elderly wooden vacation home, he wanted to raze it and build anew, the local conservationist community objected. By the time the court process came close to being exhausted, the house had fallen apart on its own anyway from neglect.
With Trap/Tardelli neglecting Hoolahan all these years, then saying he's too old to try out now, then with their arms twisted they do take an interest in him. Even if they were willing to give him a small chance, Wes will be on the wrong side of mid thirties before the assimilating process would be exhausted.
I might need help, I'm sounding just as cynical as Paul, but at least I have some grammar to console myself with

[paul_oshea]

I never knew grammar was something you could own/possess!

[Kingdom]

Here you go, absolute proof.
http://cache.tcm.ie/media/images/g/GiovanniTrapattoniNorwichOct12_large.jpg

Dude, that's Lloyd Bridges!

[BonnieShels]

I might need help, I'm sounding just as cynical as Paul, but at least I have some grammar to console myself with

Where's that full-stop so?

[tricky_colour]

Here you go, absolute proof.
http://cache.tcm.ie/media/images/g/GiovanniTrapattoniNorwichOct12_large.jpg

Looks photoshopped to me.

[paul_oshea]

So you'll have a punt on the 4/1 option?
I'm reading Steve Jobs' biography, there was a strategy which Steve Jobs employed on more than one occasion. Once when he bought an elderly wooden vacation home, he wanted to raze it and build anew, the local conservationist community objected. By the time the court process came close to being exhausted, the house had fallen apart on its own anyway from neglect.
With Trap/Tardelli neglecting Hoolahan all these years, then saying he's too old to try out now, then with their arms twisted they do take an interest in him. Even if they were willing to give him a small chance, Wes will be on the wrong side of mid thirties before the assimilating process would be exhausted.
I might need help, I'm sounding just as cynical as Paul, but at least I have some grammar to console myself with

It's not me that's cynical. It's rather that I have a wonderful lack of respect for everything and everybody.....or maybe just worldly wise!!! :D

[geysir]

Where's that full-stop so?
You mean a full stop?
I wrote "at least I have some grammar" not perfect grammar :)

[Stuttgart88]

So you'll have a punt on the 4/1 option?I think it's a blend of the 3 options, with the last option carrying more than pro-rata weighting!

[BonnieShels]

You mean a full stop?
I wrote "at least I have some grammar" not perfect grammar :)

No, I meant full-stop.
I have no time for non-hyphenated compund words.

You're not twisting you're way out of this.











That "you're" inflamed your senses, didn't it?



Though in saying that, does anyone reckon that he'll play against Greece?

[geysir]

No, I meant full-stop.

Though in saying that, does anyone reckon that he'll play against Greece?
In saying what?
What did you say that remotely relates to the question?
I know there's plenty of space between the lines but it looks like there's nothing there :)

[BonnieShels]

In saying what?
What did you say that remotely relates to the question?
I know there's plenty of space between the lines but it looks like there's nothing there :)

It's difficult to know how many returns one can press without incurring Adam's wrath. I thought I had pressed itenough to ensure you got what I was doing.

Maybe I should've said "In saying all of this pointless crap regarding grammar and such, does anyone reckon he'll play against Greece?"

I'm way too tired for your messing today. Go back to annoying POS. You still owe me a translation. :P

[paul_oshea]

Geysir doesn't annoy me, I'm impervious to it all, little minds are tamed and subdued by runts; but great minds rise above them.

My grammar/sytanx/semantics or lack thereof is down to the fact I speed type - about 55 words per minute. I don't re-read what i write and I'm not a secretary so I make mistakes when typing. If I put half as much time into my posts as said poster and many more regular posters on here a) I'd be fired or without employment b) my sentences would be constructed correctly. :D

[Stuttgart88]

Maybe I should've said "In saying all of this pointless crap regarding grammar and such, does anyone reckon he'll play against Greece?"
Yes, bums on seats.

[centre mid]

Gets an assist today at Villa Park and has played well throughout.

[harry crumb]

Deserved MOTM today.

Only thing missing was the goal.

[geysir]

You still owe me a translation. :P
Did I not already make a sincere effort to translate 2 lines for you? an effort which was inspired by the sight of your botched attempt :)
Have you sent more work my way?

[tricky_colour]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/261642/ratings


Hoolahan

The only outstanding performer of the day. 7.0 8

[gastric]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/261642/ratings


Hoolahan

The only outstanding performer of the day. 7.0 8

Described on commentary as being the best player on the ground 'by a country mile' and the question was asked why a player of his calibre could not make the Irish team.

[tricky_colour]

Described on commentary as being the best player on the ground 'by a country mile' and the question was asked why a player of his calibre could not make the Irish team.

Been asking that question for some time, there seems to be an oddity about the Irish team in that we rule out any player
who shows any kind of ability on the grounds he would not fit not a system designed basically stop the other side from playing.
But I think we would have more success stopping them laying if we played a bit ourselves, they can't play if we have the ball.

[DeLorean]

Hoolihan was incredible yesterday. It's, by the distance, the best club performance I've seen from one of our players in a long long time. They even divided the clips of good Hoolihan play into two parts on Premier Soccer Saturday there were so many! Villa were absolutely shocking but even so, a really top class performance.

[swinfordfc]

Villa are a joke - deserved to be going down this season

[gastric]

Just saw some tumbleweed blow past - it is so quiet on this site at the moment. Good article about Norwich's tactics and Hughton working to accommodate Hoolahan.

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/premier-league/norwich-city/news/article/3532/8208801/hughton-to-accommodate-hoolahan

[Crosby87]

How come he is Hoolahan and Margaret from M*A*S*H is Houlihan?

[mark12345]

Been asking that question for some time, there seems to be an oddity about the Irish team in that we rule out any player
who shows any kind of ability on the grounds he would not fit not a system designed basically stop the other side from playing. But I think we would have more success stopping them laying if we played a bit ourselves, they can't play if we have the ball.

That effing system again. I can't bear to hear about a system which is akin to drilling a hole in your rowboat when you go ice fishing.

But fair dos to you tricky colour. You (and me and a few others if we're honest) have been singing Wes's praises for some time now. As I said a couple of weeks ago regarding Wes and our creative players - we have three wonderfully creative players in Hoolahan, Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland (time to forget his past now), and not one of them can get into this system of Trap's.

Fair enough if Trap's teams are playing competent, constructive football. But we all know that's as far away as the moon right now for Ireland.

[gastric]

How come he is Hoolahan and Margaret from M*A*S*H is Houlihan?

Different spelling!:D

[Yard of Pace]

Ireland should pick Hoolahan (part two)In a match of confused endeavour at Villa Park (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/28/aston-villa-swindon-norwich), Wes Hoolahan stood out a mile. Every touch was considered, urgent and purposeful. He is the kind of quietly classy playmaker no team should leave home without, and his awareness and touch are such that he probably wouldn't look out of place playing five-a-sides at La Masia. It's a surprise that he is not playing for a bigger club, and a minor scandal that he is not playing for his country: his only cap for the Republic of Ireland came four years ago, and he could not even get into the squad for Euro 2012. In an Irish team that tends to deal in confused endeavour, Hoolahan would stand out a mile. Rob Smyth



http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/29/10-talking-points-premier-league

[Colbert Report]

He missed a sitter at about the 21 minute mark. Terrible miss really.

[paul_oshea]

Its strange or perhaps sad that holohan is 30 and only getting recognised. I remember his game against deportivo and he stood out among all players but one thing back then I noticed was how weak he was, but he seemed to have the pace to play as a winger. Its interesting that he has stood out for norwich in the middle, and who saw that in him, or did he develop into that type of player? Has he improved that much or is it a combination of being in the right place at the right time and some luck along with obvious talent. Is he just lucky to have been part of a team that got promoted to the PL and got his chance to impress and could he have been dwindling in D1 or D2 till the end of his career had he not been part of the norwich team which got promoted(I think his contribution to getting Norwich promoted is another argument). My thoughts are that if he had not been part of this Norwich team he would have never got another opportunity. Its sad, very sad in a way. He has shown himself well capable and not just a one season wonder.

[geysir]

That effing system again. I can't bear to hear about a system which is akin to drilling a hole in your rowboat when you go ice fishing.

I just can't make any sense out of that rowboat, ice fishing image.

[the bear]

Why do you need a boat if your standing on ice?

[geysir]

Let's accept that Mark thinks you should drag one across the frozen lake anyway. But why jump into it and drill a hole to get through to the ice?
Even if you did something that silly, where's the boat going to go. But if you were to drill a hole through the bottom of the boat in the middle of a lake, is it not infinitely better that the boat is on solid ice than water?

Will Wes will pick up an injury before the Greece game?
(note - blatant attempt to get back on topic)

[the bear]

Let's accept that Mark thinks you should drag one across the frozen lake anyway. But why jump into it and drill a hole to get through to the ice?
Even if you did something that silly, where's the boat going to go. But if you were to drill a hole through the bottom of the boat in the middle of a lake, is it not infinitely better that the boat is on solid ice than water?

Will Wes will pick up an injury before the Greece game?
(note - blatant attempt to get back on topic)

Should be alright as long as he hasn't got a fishing trip with Mark planned

[geysir]

Only dangerous if it's ice fishing on an ice free lake.
But there are positives, there would be no need to drag the boat across, just let her float easy.
That is, until somebody initiates the drilling.

So yes, Wes should be alright if he avoids that experience.

[the bear]

Might be dangerous for Wes though, he usually likes to play in the hole

[SkStu]

Its strange or perhaps sad that holohan is 30 and only getting recognised. I remember his game against deportivo and he stood out among all players but one thing back then I noticed was how weak he was, but he seemed to have the pace to play as a winger. Its interesting that he has stood out for norwich in the middle, and who saw that in him, or did he develop into that type of player? Has he improved that much or is it a combination of being in the right place at the right time and some luck along with obvious talent. Is he just lucky to have been part of a team that got promoted to the PL and got his chance to impress and could he have been dwindling in D1 or D2 till the end of his career had he not been part of the norwich team which got promoted(I think his contribution to getting Norwich promoted is another argument). My thoughts are that if he had not been part of this Norwich team he would have never got another opportunity. Its sad, very sad in a way. He has shown himself well capable and not just a one season wonder.

Hey Paul - he did play on the wing quite a bit for Shels when i used to see him regularly. He did however also play behind the striker in the hole and was very effective there at times so to answer your question - he has had experience in both roles as part of an excellent & competitive, professional team in the LOI.

I was saying on FB that at 30 he is not the messiah and hes not the future but it is without question that he should have had an opportunity under Trappatoni over his reign and who was more deserving of 13 caps in 3 years? Pontefract's Paul Green or Dublins Wes Hoolahan? It is sad and its a shame.

[paul_oshea]

Ya I saw more of him than that game to be fair the few years until he was about 24 i think, but i didnt see any games where he played behind the striker.

My point was more at what stage did he develop, or was he say at that level at a professional and excellent LOI side, or did he get better as he got older and now we are seeing his best years? I am of the belief that its a bit of both, but moreso, that he was lucky to be in a team that got promoted to the premiership. Had he not been he would still be somewhere between league 1 and League 2.

I'm not just on about his International career here. But ya no question who is more deserving Paul Green or Wes hoolohan. The even sadder thing is, if we hadn't got pummelled against germany most on here would still be saying Trap was right, even on a decision as clear cut as that.

[SkStu]

i dont think he was "lucky to be part of a team that got promoted". I think that does him a bit of a disservice. I think he was recruited because of his performances with Blackpool and was signed with a view to helping Norwich gain promotion which they happened to do a bit sooner than they probably planned. I think the move to Championship football undoubtedly benefitted his game and definitely gave him a maturity in his game that meant he excelled more in the advanced role. The end result is that he is in the Premiership on merit in my opinion. Good to see more LOI talent coming good at the highest level.

[Junior]

Should be alright as long as he hasn't got a fishing trip with Mark planned


I swear this is pure coincidence but I was just on another forum and they were posting up clips on youtube of ....well lets just say, I think this must be Mark on his way ice fishing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T81u9250p-o&feature=player_embedded

[the bear]

Ya I saw more of him than that game to be fair the few years until he was about 24 i think, but i didnt see any games where he played behind the striker.

My point was more at what stage did he develop, or was he say at that level at a professional and excellent LOI side, or did he get better as he got older and now we are seeing his best years? I am of the belief that its a bit of both, but moreso, that he was lucky to be in a team that got promoted to the premiership. Had he not been he would still be somewhere between league 1 and League 2.

I'm not just on about his International career here. But ya no question who is more deserving Paul Green or Wes hoolohan. The even sadder thing is, if we hadn't got pummelled against germany most on here would still be saying Trap was right, even on a decision as clear cut as that.

Its impossible to know where he'd be playing I suppose. Would Norwich be playing league 1 now if Wes had styed at Blackpool?

It really is crazy when you think that Paul Green has been ahead of him for the last 3 years. It goes to show how a relationship with one manager can make or break your career, Andy reid knows all about that.

[paul_oshea]

i dont think he was "lucky to be part of a team that got promoted". I think that does him a bit of a disservice. I think he was recruited because of his performances with Blackpool and was signed with a view to helping Norwich gain promotion which they happened to do a bit sooner than they probably planned. I think the move to Championship football undoubtedly benefitted his game and definitely gave him a maturity in his game that meant he excelled more in the advanced role. The end result is that he is in the Premiership on merit in my opinion. Good to see more LOI talent coming good at the highest level.

The thing is though, half the teams or even more in the Championship have aspirations and "5 year plans" to get promoted, I mean why would they even bother being in the championship if they hadn't. Many players have been recruited or bought for clubs with these aspirations from LOI and I'm sure lower leagues, but they never get to play in the Premiership. There is no doubt that the jump in standard and fitness, pretty much everything, benefited Wes, but I doubt it took 6 years to come to fruition. I'm not doing him a disservice, it's not the point I'm making, I'm of the belief that maybe there are more players who if they got a chance or a little luck along the way to coincide with the betterment of their game then they could well end up in Wes' position, proving themselves more than capable at PL level. Maybe Wes is one of those people who just adapts, evolves based on whats around him, and as he needed to get better, he found a new level. I don't know what exactly, but I don't mean in anyway to do him a disservice. When he left blackpool they got promoted( so i think the argument "recruited by a club with a plan to get promoted is a bit loose"), he did a good job there but was hardly standing out week in/week out.

[SkStu]

I'm of the belief that maybe there are more players who if they got a chance or a little luck along the way to coincide with the betterment of their game then they could well end up in Wes' position, proving themselves more than capable at PL level.

totally agree with this part. But it goes without saying. The amount of talent that doesnt get those "lucky breaks" is evident from the lack of players making the grade from U17/U19 level to full Irish internationals. Oversimplified to make a point obviously, but on the assumption that most players are talented, I think for success 50% is application & drive and the other 50% is luck and timing.

We are mostly agreeing with each other on everything else but Wes' form with Blackpool coincided with his rise to prominence on here. He was very solid for them for a couple of seasons.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think you could describe any aspect of Hoolahan's career as lucky. He has worked harder than most players with similar to reach his deserved level. The big difference between now and his time at Shels (apart from age and experience) is that he's spent years playing against stronger and fitter players, meaning he can hold his own against full-time professional players. Even though Shels were a full-time outfit, he was never going to get the physical training and toughness of competition he would get at a bog-standard English or Scottish league club.

[tricky_colour]

I would not say he is lucky either, he is probably more suited to playing at this level than the
lump it forward style of lower leagues.
Anyhow Norwich play Spurs tonight in the league cup, don't know if Wes will start though, you usually get a fair few changes in these cup matches.
Can't find a stream for it anyway.

[Charlie Darwin]

No, he's not in the matchday squad at all.

[tricky_colour]

No, he's not in the matchday squad at all.



He's in the Ireland squad though!!!

http://www.canaries.co.uk/news/article/hoolahan-gets-ireland-call-458393.aspx



Midfielder named in provisional squad
NORWICH City star Wes Hoolahan has been called up to Giovanni Trapattoni's provisional 26-man Republic of Ireland squad to face Greece in a friendly at the AVIVA Stadium in Dublin on November 14.

The 30-year-old midfielder has put in some fine performances for Chris Hughton's side in recent weeks against Arsenal and Aston Villa, helping the Canaries take pick up four points in the process.

Hoolahan made his one and only appearance for Trapattoni's side as a second half substitute in a 1-0 win over Columbia at Craven Cottage in May 2008.

Meanwhile City's Norwegian international Alex Tettey has been recalled to the Norway squad by Egil Olsen for their friendly against Hungary.