Emelka Onwubiko

[passinginterest]

FAI Hold Open Consultation on Intercultural Football Strategy - This just appeared on the football feeds from the FAI site.
Good timing or what!?

[Nailer77]

His threads already way bigger than the David Connolly one :D

I hope you're not sayin its bigger cos he's black!!!! cos thats Racialist innit!

[geysir]

I can understand where you're coming from, however, that comes across as pretty racist. I won't be attending another Irish game until the full squad is completely Irish men who I feel represent me!
What are you trying to say here? it looks to be just as ignorant as Reddladd's post or is it just a poorly expresssed football statement?

[Jamjar]

no...

[Lionel Ritchie]

There also appears to be a lot of you who know me quite well considering your well chosen words. I am a member of a right wing political party and I’m a ‘scanger’ to quote one intelligent contributor.

Sorry for going OT but I'm intrigued. Care to tell who this "right wing political party" you're a member of is? I'm guessing they're the real deal if you're describing them as such because none of the mainstream right of center parties would describe themselves in such terms.
Let's see now ...Fine Gael (would probably describe themselves as Christian Democrat), Progressive Democrats (Liberal Democrat), Fianna Fail (long before Bertie laughably claimed to be a socialist Brian Lenihan Snr. laughably described FF as a party of "the near left" ....I'm going to lump them under Christian Democrat with FG).

Who does that leave? I'd personally consider RSF to be a right wing party though they seem to think they're leftist. What harm ...sure there's only half a dozen or so of them anyway.

As we're now grabbing tufts of the lunatic fringe there's the Nic Mathunas/Justin Barrett nutbars in Youth Defence? There's that crazy auld doll and her Immigration Control Platform and after that I'm guessing we're down to the scangers in burberry over on ********** Ireland -and they only seem to bother with that if they can drag themselves away from cruise-ireland for five minutes ...and anyway these last few are hardly political parties -cults maybe.

So ...do tell.:confused:

BTW ...I haven't a foggiest clue who you are ...should I?

[Paddy Garcia]

I'm far happier with this lad playing for Ireland than the likes of Andy Townsend

Absolutely - the last thing we need is the kind of commitment demonstrated by Townsend. I'd much rather have the effort shown against San Marino, Holland and Cyprus, this much better embodies the Irish spirit - as so well displayed by our home grown lads.

I also recall Townsend having plenty of injections, in his toe, to specifically allow him to turn out for us. I did not see a quarter of that commitment recently. Anyone at the Italy game in the Giants stadium will be aware of the outstanding contribution & work load he made that day. And there were many more days like this.

I can't decide which comment is more stupid.

btw good luck to Onwubiko, as far as I'm concerned he is very welcome to represent his country.

[Jamjar]

And has nobody thought of the nickname crisis we'll have, half these Nigerian names end in 'O' already.

[lopez]

...So no its not evidence and its less valued when you consider its 13 years old and that since 94 the country has changed beyond belief.You sound like you weren't born in 94. Irish born Italians supporting their land of their parents not their birth, not evidence of how some people don't consider their birthplace as relevant to identity? :rolleyes:

What's happened in the last 13 years is that there are more than two, three, possibly four large ethnic minority communities in Ireland. Whether these groups offspring feel Irish will have a lot to do on how the Irish treat them, rather than where their mother's waters broke. The fact that the door to citizenship has been redrawn doesn't exactly help. But hey, I'm sure birthplace will remain the key, not those insignificant things like family, culture, and ethnicity.

[billybunter]

can i have your tickets redladd?

[danonion]

I also recall Townsend having plenty of injections, in his toe, to specifically allow him to turn out for us.

Ah, I understand now, they injected him with Irish blood to make him eligible.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I also recall Townsend having plenty of injections, in his toe, to specifically allow him to turn out for us. I did not see a quarter of that commitment recently. Anyone at the Italy game in the Giants stadium will be aware of the outstanding contribution & work load he made that day. And there were many more days like this. Oh to have his like available now.
Tells a fairly horrific story in his book about the agony he was in (toe had gone septic) and Mick Byrne performing a piece of 'Somme Surgery' on it with no more kit than a sowing needle and a cigarette lighter. :eek:

[Closed Account 2]

id rather a Nigerian born Irishman than a plastic Paddy anyday

That's very nice of you!

You know growing up as 2nd gen Irish in London in the 70s/80s really wasnt a bundle of fun...

[livehead1]

Ah, I understand now, they injected him with Irish blood to make him eligible.

This forum gets worse and worse. Where have all the sensible people gone

[Condex]

Seems like a lot of people on this thread want us to end up like France
ie No French players in the team...

[Plastic Paddy]

This forum gets worse and worse. Where have all the sensible people gone

We disappeared when it became obvious that the lunatics were gaining control of the asylum. :(

:ball: PP

[eirebhoy]

Condex - Why do you think Makelele, Zidane, Thuram, Vieira, etc. decided to play for France? Why do you think Onwubiko wants to play for Ireland? I'm Intrigued. :)

We've had the days where half our team wasn't Irish. Ireland would not have been their 1st choice. This is different.

[Condex]

Condex - Why do you think Makelele, Zidane, Thuram, Vieira, etc. decided to play for France? Why do you think Onwubiko wants to play for Ireland? I'm Intrigued. :)

We've had the days where half our team wasn't Irish. Ireland would not have been their 1st choice. This is different.

At least the players who played for Ireland in the past
born here or not had Irish ancestry...

Whats the point in supporting a team thats not Irish, I thought
that was the point of a national team..

[Dodge]

Seems like a lot of people on this thread want us to end up like France
ie No French players in the team...
Can't believe it took you this long to come into it.

[Condex]

Can't believe it took you this long to come into it.

Don't really post that much here anymore, its a bit too liberal/leftie for my taste.. I've taken to posting on the BNP website instead..:D

[Poor Student]

Condex, trust you to show up when such matters arise. Luckily very few people here share your anachronistic sense of primordial nationialism.

The only regret I have about this young lad is that he seems to be joining the exodus of lads leaving this country too young and never coming into the LOI fold.

[osarusan]

Seems like a lot of people on this thread want us to end up like France
ie No French players in the team...

I fully agree - I dont want any French players on the Irish team.

[Condex]

Condex, trust you to show up when such matters arise. Luckily very few people here share your anachronistic sense of primordial nationialism.

The only regret I have about this young lad is that he seems to be joining the exodus of lads leaving this country too young and never coming into the LOI fold.

All those big words then you go and spell 'nationalism' wrong...;)

[lopez]

Condex - Why do you think Makelele, Zidane, Thuram, Vieira, etc. decided to play for France? Why do you think Onwubiko wants to play for Ireland? I'm Intrigued. :)

We've had the days where half our team wasn't Irish. Ireland would not have been their 1st choice. This is different.Whooooah!!! Hold on. So you think that Onwubiko is playing for Ireland because of what, exactly? National pride. Firstly he wasn't born in the country - and let's get that little bit of insignificance out of the way, because welcome to the modern world of migration, that means Jack sh*te. And even if he was, again what exactly would his cultural connections be with Ireland. If you think Italians are attached to family, clan, tribe (call it what you like) then you haven't met most sub-saharan africans where their cousins are their brothers and their distant relations are their cousins.

So we have someone - not necessarily Onwubiko - who has followed the country of his parents all his life, but decides for convenience, ambition, pressure even, to play for the country of his birth. What exactly do you think of this man's principles? Enzo Scifo did it. I'd add Kevin Gallen aswell, as I know people who knew him as a youth.

Quit this sh*te about why Onwubiko picked Ireland. You don't know. It could be that he feels as Irish as Guinness. It could also be because he's thinks he's got no chance of getting into the Nigerian team. Ever thought of that one?

[eirebhoy]

I want players representing Ireland who regard themselves as Irish. That's pretty much all I want. I don't want to talk just about Onwubiko as I know nothing about him but I'm pretty sure Zidane regards himself as a Frenchman while I seriously doubt Andy Townsend thought twice about his Irish granny. The same way I doubt Wayne Rooney considers himself anything but English.

A lot of 2nd and 3rd generation Irish on here get offended when one of us doesn't treat Townsend, Aldridge, etc. as Irishmen. McCarthy, Kilbane, Breen, Connolly are as Irish as any of us. They regard themselves as Irish. That's all it basically comes down to with me. Obviously they'd have to qualify too.

btw - What side of the fence are you on?

[Dodge]

Quit this sh*te about why Onwubiko picked Ireland. You don't know. It could be that he feels as Irish as Guinness. It could also be because he's thinks he's got no chance of getting into the Nigerian team. Ever thought of that one?

I kinda know him (and his family). For one thing he can't play for Nigeria as his family sought refuge from there, meaning he can't ever go back...

He himself, feels Irish. He speaks with a think Dub accent, he goes to school with all the locals, his dad bought him an ireland jersey years ago and he "supports" the national team.


Cocky little **** mind...

[geysir]

At least the players who played for Ireland in the past born here or not had Irish ancestry... That's a nonsensical statement.

Whats the point in supporting a team thats not Irish
I don't know, don't care.This an Ireland forum, about the Irish team.

I thought that was the point of a national team
The point of a national team is to gather together a team of the best nationals
available and beat the shíte out of different national teams gathered together from their nationals.

[co. down green]

I kinda know him (and his family). For one thing he can't play for Nigeria as his family sought refuge from there, meaning he can't ever go back...

He himself, feels Irish. He speaks with a think Dub accent, he goes to school with all the locals, his dad bought him an ireland jersey years ago and he "supports" the national team.


Cocky little **** mind...

I wish the young lad all the best with his future and would love him to be running out for Ireland in a few years time.

[lopez]

I want players representing Ireland who regard themselves as Irish.
That isn't the same as being born in Ireland (or the Republic). Not footballers themselves, but have you ever heard of Horatio Herbert Kitchener or Henry Wilson?

while I seriously doubt Andy Townsend thought twice about his Irish granny. ?
I've got a lot of issues about Townsend, but as someone not born in Ireland myself and only one parent from there, I think it's a bit ill befitting of me to look down on him. We all know he supported England against us in Euro '88. We all know that it was him that persuaded the Irish team wear black armbands on the day of Diana Windsor's death. Enough said!

A lot of 2nd and 3rd generation Irish on here get offended when one of us doesn't treat Townsend, Aldridge, etc. as Irishmen....
I get offended by sweeping statements about half the team not being Irish.

btw - What side of the fence are you on?What do you mean by that?

...He speaks with a think Dub accent...That seems the qualification for Irishness amongst a few Irish 'fans' I've met over the years.

Dodge, obviously you know the bloke. Without anything else, he is entitled to Irish citizenship. That's all I care about. I'm not going to judge Ireland's players on what they are or aren't. What I'm pr*ckly about is that because one player speaks with some form of Irish accent, he's more Irish than someone whose ancestors arrived with the Celts, but whose parents had to emigrate due to lack of work.

[Dodge]

What I'm pr*ckly about is that because one player speaks with some form of Irish accent, he's more Irish than someone whose ancestors arrived with the Celts, but whose parents had to emigrate due to lack of work.
I agree 100% with you. I've said 100s of times on here I've no problem with 2g Irish or even 3g. I have a problem with some of the mercenaries (Townsend, Houghton, Holland etc) but the majority are proud to be Irish (note this has nothing to do with their pride in the Irish team, which I put down to professional pride more than anything (Townsend being a better pro than say John O'Shea...).

I put the accent in there for some but it wouldn't matter to me

[BohsPartisan]

Don't really post that much here anymore, its a bit too liberal/leftie for my taste.. I've taken to posting on the BNP website instead..:D
You should read The Atlantean Irish by Bob Quinn. Turns out the Irish are African after all! :D

Also Lopez should read it too. The Irish are not and never were Celts. In fact it is dubious that there were any "Celts" anywhere.

[BohsPartisan]

The point of a national team is to gather together a team of the best nationals
available and beat the shíte out of different national teams gathered together from their nationals.

Tell that to Jack Charlton

[geysir]

Tell that to Jack Charlton
Tell what to Jack Charlton, that an Irish passport holder is a citizen of Ireland.
That citizenship bestows nationality. That being granted an Irish passport allows the person to be a recognised as an Irish national. And if you're good enough you can play for your country. Don't you think that Charlton already knows all that?

[Lionel Ritchie]

I've got a lot of issues about Townsend, but as someone not born in Ireland myself and only one parent from there, I think it's a bit ill befitting of me to look down on him. We all know he supported England against us in Euro '88. We all know that it was him that persuaded the Irish team wear black armbands on the day of Diana Windsor's death. Enough said!.

I have no issues whatsoever with Townsend or anyone else who's played for us (...not even Butler -his being ****e notwithstanding.)
Frankly I'd be surprised if Townsend didn't follow England. It's not for us to judge him lesser just because his folks didn't send him to céili classes ala Kilbane -or for his considering the death of royal to be something worth a black armband. That's dual nationalism for you. It might seem conflicted or disjointed sometimes but how bad.

I've two cousins (Irish mum English dad) who play hurling and so called gaelic football for their local club and are Clare mad. They were togged out in their white shirts and were in observable, palpable distress yesterday as they watched the England rugby team taken to the cleaners.
That's just how they were raised and fair play. Whatever works for them.

[lopez]

You should read The Atlantean Irish by Bob Quinn. Turns out the Irish are African after all! :DYou should read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Turns out a few Jews rule the world through capitalism and communism. :rolleyes:

The fact is that, linguistically the Irish and Scottish languages are almost identical, and are closely related to other so - called 'Celtic' languages. If there were no Celts, so be it, but these languages developed differently from other European language families.

So the Irish came from Africa? I think you'll find that we all originally came from there. There's no denying that the Irish are made up of more than Celtic tribes. Normans, Saxons, French, Spanish, and even Blacks. Ireland had a large number of black slaves in the country over two hundred years ago, who on emancipation, mostly intermarried - common law or properly - with the host population. It might be that some of Ireland's fiercest racists might have an African ancestor closer than a Milesian.

Still, if it makes you happy, then IMO someone whose family has been in Ireland for two thousand years since they left Africa, but whose parents emigrated through lack of work, is no less an Irishman than an African that turned up ten years ago.

I have no issues whatsoever with Townsend or anyone else who's played for us (...not even Butler -his being ****e notwithstanding.)
Frankly I'd be surprised if Townsend didn't follow England. It's not for us to judge him lesser just because his folks didn't send him to céili classes ala Kilbane -or for his considering the death of royal to be something worth a black armband...With three English grandparents, I'd be surprised too. I have no issue with Townsend holding an Irish passport or playing for Ireland. Like Onwubiko, I couldn't care less his reasons, if he can do the job and is qualified. However, if he found the death of FOREIGN ex-royal distressful then he should have cried off sick like half his other country did in what I clearly remember was the largest outpouring of faux grief I'd ever had the misfortune to witness.

[Condex]

That's a nonsensical statement.

I don't know, don't care.This an Ireland forum, about the Irish team.

The point of a national team is to gather together a team of the best nationals
available and beat the shíte out of different national teams gathered together from their nationals.

I think its takes a little bit more than a passport to be Irish...

[Condex]

That isn't the same as being born in Ireland (or the Republic). Not footballers themselves, but have you ever heard of Horatio Herbert Kitchener or Henry Wilson?

I've got a lot of issues about Townsend, but as someone not born in Ireland myself and only one parent from there, I think it's a bit ill befitting of me to look down on him. We all know he supported England against us in Euro '88. We all know that it was him that persuaded the Irish team wear black armbands on the day of Diana Windsor's death. Enough said!

I get offended by sweeping statements about half the team not being Irish.
What do you mean by that?
That seems the qualification for Irishness amongst a few Irish 'fans' I've met over the years.

Dodge, obviously you know the bloke. Without anything else, he is entitled to Irish citizenship. That's all I care about. I'm not going to judge Ireland's players on what they are or aren't. What I'm pr*ckly about is that because one player speaks with some form of Irish accent, he's more Irish than someone whose ancestors arrived with the Celts, but whose parents had to emigrate due to lack of work.

Lopez : Nice piece of Fisking....

[geysir]

I think its takes a little bit more than a passport to be Irish...
Whatever you think to be Irish is your subjective opinion. To be an Irish national a passport is enough evidence of that. To be a national one has to satisfy a number of criteria. This criteria has been well satisfied in Emelka's situation. If you don't agree with that then take it to Off Topic forum.
The Irish football forum is not a place to discuss the value of what you consider it takes to be Irish.

[Condex]

Whatever you think to be Irish is your subjective opinion. To be an Irish national a passport is enough evidence of that. To be a national one has to satisfy a number of criteria. This criteria has been well satisfied in Emelka's situation. If you don't agree with that then take it to Off Topic forum.
The Irish football forum is not a place to discuss the value of what you consider it takes to be Irish.

gaysir:Don't lecture!!

[Reddladd]

The post from Condex about how the French national team has very few 'French' playing is what brought about my original statement.
When you look at the size of the French population compared to Ireland it is something that could become reality in a relatively short period of time when you consider how much things have changed over the last 10-15 years.

It's no different than having 15 kerrymen playing gaelic football in a Dublin shirt. I'm sure that wouldn't be popular with the Dubs support even if they did win an All Ireland!

Re Billybunter, yeh you can have my tickets..............it'll be a while though!

[geysir]

The post from Condex about how the French national team has very few 'French' playing is what brought about my original statement.
'French' what's that classification then? what difference is there betweeen a 'Frenchman' and a Frenchman? Which one is Henry or Bartez?
Same rules apply for France as with any other country, only passport holding national citizens are eligible to play for the national teams.[/QUOTE]

[Fergie's Son]

It's a much more complicated issue that has been presented here.

It is legitimate to ask, how many are too many? Put another way, is Ireland still Ireland if (over a relatively short period of time, please keep that in mind) Irish people are a minority in their own country? Is a massive displacement of an existing population with several others a good or a bad thing? Perhaps it is or perhaps it isn't but we should be able to discuss this issue openly.

Now this young man may very well be as Irish in spirit as anyone but that does not mean we can't discuss the dreadful abuse of the asylum system or the very real issue of minorities in Ireland.

Again, this is a complicated issue and one that has profound ramfications that go beyond football.

[charliesboots]

It's a much more complicated issue that has been presented here.

It is legitimate to ask, how many are too many? Put another way, is Ireland still Ireland if (over a relatively short period of time, please keep that in mind) Irish people are a minority in their own country? Is a massive displacement of an existing population with several others a good or a bad thing? Perhaps it is or perhaps it isn't but we should be able to discuss this issue openly.

Now this young man may very well be as Irish in spirit as anyone but that does not mean we can't discuss the dreadful abuse of the asylum system or the very real issue of minorities in Ireland.

Again, this is a complicated issue and one that has profound ramfications that go beyond football.

The us and them mentality is what racism feeds off. There is only one race of people on our poxy planet - the human race.

Irishness cannot be easily defined but I think it's pretty much agreed that feeling Irish is the most important aspect of it. A few examples;

Are Stephen McPhail and Ronan O'Gara Irish. Both born in the United States but brought up in Ireland. Yes they are.

What about Paul McGrath? Born in England to a Nigerian father but brought up in Ireland and identifying himself as being Irish. Yes he is Irish. I certainly wouldn't mind a team of Paul McGraths.

Is David Kelly Irish? Born and brought up in England to Irish parents but brought up as an Irishman living abroad. He is Irish.

Likewise Pat Dolan. As much as I don't like him he cannot be blamed for not being born or brought up in Ireland. What's certain is that he identifies himself as Irish (despite lying about his birthplace to increase his Irishness, which I feel is very disrespectful to the likes of David Kelly above). He is Irish.

Yare Jebefume, an old friend of mine who's parents fled Nigeria in the 70's and moved to Ireland. He grew up in Ireland feeling Irish. He is Irish.

People need to look beyond accents, colour, religion etc and accept that Irishness comes in many different forms. Emelka Onwubiko is Irish if he feels Irish.

The most important thing to me is that we have a team representing Ireland that want to represent Ireland as it is the country they associate themselves with. I couldn't give a sh!t if none were white, none were catholic once they felt Irish. That's how they would represent me, by being Irish too.

[Lionel Ritchie]

It's no different than having 15 kerrymen playing gaelic football in a Dublin shirt. I'm sure that wouldn't be popular with the Dubs support even if they did win an All Ireland!
whether it would be popular or not is moot ...but with neither interest nor familiarity with the rules of the GAA I know you're matter of factually comparing an apple and an orange.
I'll leave it for someone who knows their GAA stuff to blow you out of the water on this one though.

[lopez]

Lopez : Nice piece of Fisking....Surely fisting? :D

...and if we really want to get absurd patrick pearse and dear old dev were less irish than duke of wellington and montgomery !! and what has this to do with soccer i hear you cryI don't think either had Irish accents, so you're wrong! ;) Actually you could add someone like Cathal Brugha and Robert Briscoe to Pearse and Dev. The latter's parents being both Lithuanian Jewish immigrants.

...The most important thing to me is that we have a team representing Ireland that want to represent Ireland as it is the country they associate themselves with. I couldn't give a sh!t if none were white, none were catholic once they felt Irish. That's how they would represent me, by being Irish too.That's good enough for most Irish football fans.

[Reddladd]

Lionel Richie you'd really want to read my post again.
Other posters here inferred that my post was akin to what a member of the BNP might say. Their words, not mine.
I am not affiliated with any political party and don't feel the need to be, though my family would be FF.

If you don't know anything about Gaa then don't worry yourself about it!

Lastly, 'Rivers of blood speech', get over yourself. Talk about over reacting!

[Lionel Ritchie]

Lionel Richie you'd really want to read my post again.
Other posters here inferred that my post was akin to what a member of the BNP might say. Their words, not mine.
I am not affiliated with any political party and don't feel the need to be, though my family would be FF.

If you don't know anything about Gaa then don't worry yourself about it!

Lastly, 'Rivers of blood speech', get over yourself. Talk about over reacting!

Post re-read. Tongue in cheek noted this time (though sentence structure could've been better) ;) Fair enough Reddladd. Apologies. :o

[BohsPartisan]

Tell what to Jack Charlton, that an Irish passport holder is a citizen of Ireland.
That citizenship bestows nationality. That being granted an Irish passport allows the person to be a recognised as an Irish national. And if you're good enough you can play for your country. Don't you think that Charlton already knows all that?

Tony Cascarino

[osarusan]

Tell that to Jack Charlton


Tony Cascarino

BohsPartisan, it sounds like you have some views on this subject....care to share them?

[BohsPartisan]

You should read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Turns out a few Jews rule the world through capitalism and communism. :rolleyes:
Straying into off topic area here but, Atlantean Irish is a serious work that is very well researched, its not a crackpot theory.


The fact is that, linguistically the Irish and Scottish languages are almost identical, and are closely related to other so - called 'Celtic' languages. If there were no Celts, so be it, but these languages developed differently from other European language families.
Not denying it. Add Manx to that. It doesn't make them "Celtic" though. It is believed that Scotland and the Isle of Man (Mananan Mac Lír - Irish sea god) were colonised at one time by the Irish. The Irish were known in ancient times as Scotti.




Still, if it makes you happy, then IMO someone whose family has been in Ireland for two thousand years since they left Africa, but whose parents emigrated through lack of work, is no less an Irishman than an African that turned up ten years ago.
No disagreement either. Was just throwing a spanner in the works of the "what it is to be Irish debate"

With three English grandparents, I'd be surprised too.

My dad is English.

Maybe the whole Irish/Celts-not Celts thing could get its own thread in current affairs.

[BohsPartisan]

BohsPartisan, it sounds like you have some views on this subject....care to share them?

Tony Cascarino had zero claim to Irish citizenship, yet no one is saying that its a disgrace he played for Ireland. Why? because he scored goals. If he was black though I'd bet there would have been more thorough research into his ancestry.

My point about Charlton was that he was more concerned about assembling a team of footballers than worrying about if they were Irish or not. If they weren't Irish, they could be made so.