Dermot Ahern's comments on an all Ireland side

[lopez]

Since when were Finchley or Surrey in NI?...Well spotted!

Personally I'd like to see the British remove all their irredentist simbols of Ireland. You can begin with the Sh*gger's cross on the Butcher's Apron, the German Lady's flag, and last but certainly least, that surrounding your football team. Play in Blue, black or Pink for all I care. :rolleyes:


There are people in Spain, such as the Catalans, Basques, Galicians etc, who do not, to varying degrees, identify with the Spanish state and by extension, the Spanish National football team. Indeed, the desire for autonomy or independence etc is replicated similarly in many other countries around the world.

I do not hear you, or more importantly, FIFA, demanding that the respective FA's modify their flags, anthems, symbolism etc so as to incorporate disaffected minorities, so why do you demand this for NI?...An ironic choice from you EG? The Spanish coat of arms of which are still worn on the Spanish shirt has the yellow and red stripes representing the Catalans and the Chains of Navarra representing the Basques.

[liaml]

Blue, black or Pink for all I care. :rolleyes:

Orange surely?;)

[Noelys Guitar]

I started this thread. The IFA is possibly worse than the FAI. The current FAI ie Delaney, Blood have made so many poor decisions in the recent past that they are finished. The IFA and their "fans" are happy with their lot and god bless them! I've changed my mind about an all Ireland team. It clearly would'nt work at the moment. We will kick out Delaney and Stan eventually but NI will be worse off than ever. Drinking beside some England fans watching their game on Wednesday (all Geordies)and they really love NI! Will someone please break it gently to the good folk of NI exactly what the "mainland" really thinks of them.

[liaml]

I agree. People want to see the FAI disbanded, most fans would've loved to see the IFA taking control. However - the whole Gibson affairs has been an absolute PR disaster for the IFA. Nationalists have never felt more alienated and what credibility the IFA had with the community is gone. To think that they've got as many buffons running their game as we do ours...

Ah well :(

[lopez]

Orange surely?;)Too Irish! :D

[Not Brazil]

The IFA and their "fans" are happy with their lot and god bless them! I've changed my mind about an all Ireland team. It clearly would'nt work at the moment. .

;) :cool:

Nationalists from Northern Ireland who wish to declare for the Republic = No problem

Nationalists from Northern Ireland who wish to play for Northern Ireland = No problem

Future autonomy of Northern Ireland representative teams = Copper fastened.

Everyone's a winner.

[liaml]

;) :cool:

Nationalists from Northern Ireland who wish to declare for the Republic = No problem


Good to see that at least some NI fans talk sense. It's a pity the IFA doesn't have the same attitude.

[Not Brazil]

Good to see that at least some NI fans talk sense. It's a pity the IFA doesn't have the same attitude.

They were barking up the wrong tree with Gibson.

My view is very straightforward.

If a player does not want to play for Northern Ireland, I don't want him playing for Northern Ireland.

Nor would I seek to stop that player playing for the Republic, thus denying him an international career.

I'm just delighted that this whole episode has strenthened the future autonomy of the IFA and Northern Ireland representative sides.

I think Northern nationalists can also be rightly happy too - they can support a team which includes players from their neck of the woods.

Win, win situation, except for those who insist there should be an All Ireland team - that notion is now buried.

The ROI will have a de facto "All Ireland" team, and we Northern Ireland fans will still have our team to support.

I like happy endings.:)

[lopez]

They were barking up the wrong tree with Gibson.

My view is very straightforward.

If a player does not want to play for Northern Ireland, I don't want him playing for Northern Ireland.

Nor would I seek to stop that player playing for the Republic, thus denying him an international career.

I'm just delighted that this whole episode has strenthened the future autonomy of the IFA and Northern Ireland representative sides.

I think Northern nationalists can also be rightly happy too - they can support a team which includes players from their neck of the woods.

Win, win situation, except for those who insist there should be an All Ireland team - that notion is now buried.

The ROI will have a de facto "All Ireland" team, and we Northern Ireland fans will still have our team to support.

I like happy endings.:)Sensible approach to this issue. I've never been a fan of the recent FIFA changes that allows youth players to hop from one association to another, but FIFA make the rules regarding playing internationals and we can only argue on forums like these.

As for the autonomy of the NI team, it's guaranteed until re-unification and probably further. I doubt you'll see the destruction of the NI team with unification, but I can see a depleted one, with regards to player quality based on the clubs they play for, money they cost, money they earn, cups won, etc. Players are like the rest of us, ambitious and few would settle for a regional team as opposed to a national one, given the choice. However, as events proved on Wednesday, you can still be weaker than the sum of your equals.

[Not Brazil]

As for the autonomy of the NI team, it's guaranteed until re-unification and probably further. I doubt you'll see the destruction of the NI team with unification, but I can see a depleted one, with regards to player quality based on the clubs they play for, money they cost, money they earn, cups won, etc. Players are like the rest of us, ambitious and few would settle for a regional team as opposed to a national one, given the choice..

That depends on the ability of the player, to a large extent.

The best "unionist" talent will always declare for Northern Ireland.

The best of "nationalist" talent will declare for the Irish republic.

Many nationalist kids will stick with Northern Ireland on the sole basis that it will represent their best opportunity to play on the international stage.

I think of the "nationalist" players in the current Northern ireland senior squad, and I cannot think of any who would be in an Irish Republic Squad.

This is a watershed, and one, upon reflection, that I am entirely comfortable with.

It will also take a lot of tension out of some important debates that face the Northern Ireland fanbase in the coming months and years.

A single "Ireland" team doesn't work.

This is a fair compromise that allows our different senses of identity to be respected and upheld.

[Paddy Garcia]

Good to see that at least some NI fans talk sense.

Second that - what a relief to hear a reasonable voice after all that other ranting.

[lopez]

That depends on the ability of the player, to a large extent.

The best "unionist" talent will always declare for Northern Ireland.

The best of "nationalist" talent will declare for the Irish republic...I was talking about post - unification which is may never happen. In such a case, I'd put money that the best unionist talent WILL opt for the 'national' team, unless they are so politically minded that they would find it abhorrent to do so. Even then, they may hold out for an England cap. I'm not taking the p*ss here with you. I've seen plenty of England shirts in Belfast to suggest that the 'gloryhunters' on the Unionist side are not content with the lowly ambitions of the NI team (last visit was in 2003, although I'm over again on Monday, so I'll look out to see if things might have changed). George Best would have played for an all-Ireland team, and has stated so. Derek Dougan would have played for an all-Ireland team, and actively encouraged one. Both from unionist East Belfast. How many Ulster rugby players have refused to stand for the Soldiers Song? Come to think of it, how many Nationalist rugby players have turned down a six week jolly down - under with the Lions?

If Spain is an example of a multi - ethnic state with autonomous teams and one state team, there still seems a lot of Catalans, Basques who play for them. I've only heard one player who has ever turned down the chance of playing for Spain, and he was a Galician.

It proves that footballers have no scruples and think only of the shekels. That's why I like it when a Northern nationalist with not much talent at least puts his own views on identity, ethnicity and YES politics first. You never know, the man might think that owning a 4X4 might not be great for the planet.

[EalingGreen]

now lets revert to the original point of the thread 'an All Ireland team' and
lets, like you have already done, use spain as our comparison.

spain: one large majority (those who associate with being spanish) and the minority (those who do not associate with all things spanish) the catalans, basques...etc. a 'hypotetical' united ireland team would represent the entire island where one community would vastly outnumber the other i.e. those who see themselves as irish with a massive majority over those who see themselves as british. so by your arguement there would be no need for the tricolour or anthem to be modified to represent the disenting minority!!

never would have thought of spain so thanks for that ealing!

:D

BTW i didn't 'demand' the removal of symbolism of unionism in relation to NI but merely stated that it is unfair to have one community represented and not the other. espically with one community representing c.53% and the other c.44%. hardly comparable with spain i would think :rolleyes: parity of esteem for both communities. what i suggested (pasted below for ease of reference) was that it would be a fairer situation if both had their own communities represented (symbolism and anthems) or else new symbolism which represents both equally.

as posted above:
....it would need cross-community symbolism (incl. flags) and anthems - although it could alternatively play neither anthem and go with 'Danny Boy' or some other song which would unite the people as opposed to divide them. ...

PS - your attempts at spin are becoming tedious and your arguements are getting weaker and weaker. the spanish comparison is verging on the ridiculous

Your attempt to adopt the Spanish example for your own purpose is fundamentally flawed. Spain is a country with a number of alienated minorities, yet you do not demand that they in some way "dilute" their "Spanishness" and/or incorporate some Basque/Catalan/Galician into the team.
The same circumstances apply to NI - an alienated minority etc.

Whereas, your proposed "hypothetical United Ireland team" is not at all analagous, since it requires the merging of two separate countries entirely. Spain may have several regions, but it's still one country

The correct analogy for your "United Ireland team" would be a "United Iberian team" i.e. Spain and Portugal merged. But FIFA would never consider this, nor should it of course, even though the disaffected (Portugese) minority would only be 5% of the whole.

Still, I guess your adoption of the Spanish/Iberian example to try to prove your case is a small advance on the South African one, which I assume you have now dropped completely.

As for your "parity of symbolism", on the "Unionist" side, this can only refer to the Anthem and the Flag. I have said quite clearly that I think that GSTQ should be replaced. The flag is different (imo), since I know of no other NI flag that might suitably replace the present one, though I would not be averse to its being substituted in principle.
Other than that, the only symbolism or imagery I can see is to be found in the team colour - emerald green, and the badge - Celtic Cross with shamrocks. If anything, both of these strike might be expected to strike more of a chord with Nationalists than Unionists.
Unless, of course, you know of other symbols or images which I'm unaware of?

But it's all academic as far as I'm concerned, since I do not accept the basic premise of your argument i.e. the contrivance of a balance of symbolism between "Unionism" and "Nationalism".
This is because football in NI, and especially with representative teams, should not be reduced to a question of political allegiance - quite thje contrary, in fact.
It should be solely a geographical matter. For me, this means the international football team I support is NI, since that is the country I come from, as determined by FIFA.
By the same token, when it comes to rugby, my "patch" is Ireland, as determined by the IRB.
As such, I may have my own personal opinions on the arrangements over flags, anthems etc which accompany these teams, but so long as these are not offensive or discriminatory, I am happy to tolerate them, since they don't interfere with the "main event" i.e. the action on the pitch.

Now you may consider the above statement of my position variously to be "spin", "tedious", "weak" or even "ridiculous", but if nothing else, it has the merit of keeping politics out of sport wherever possible whereas you, by your advocacy of incorporating political symbolism, would actually entrench it.

[liaml]

I'd put money that the best unionist talent WILL opt for the 'national' team, unless they are so politically minded that they would find it abhorrent to do so. Even then, they may hold out for an England cap. If Spain is an example of a multi - ethnic state with autonomous teams and one state team, there still seems a lot of Catalans, Basques who play for them. I've only heard one player who has ever turned down the chance of playing for Spain, and he was a Galician.

Happens more than you think - Oleguer recently turned down a World cup place.

[Not Brazil]

I was talking about post - unification which is may never happen. In such a case, I'd put money that the best unionist talent WILL opt for the 'national' team, unless they are so politically minded that they would find it abhorrent to do so. Even then, they may hold out for an England cap. I'm not taking the p*ss here with you. I've seen plenty of England shirts in Belfast to suggest that the 'gloryhunters' on the Unionist side are not content with the lowly ambitions of the NI team.

In the event of re-unification, I don't take it as a given that there would be a single Irish team.

I am well aware of those in Northern Ireland that profess England as their national team of preference - DCAL did some detailed research on this a couple of years back, and I believe it was 13% of those interviewed cited England as their first choice international team. Many of these would be hardcore "loyalists" - Billy Hutchinson being a well known example.

I think, given recent advances by Northern Ireland, that that number might be a little smaller now, but there are many England fans still around.

I haven't seen as many England shirts about Belfast recently, although the amount of Northern Ireland gear on view is heartwarming.

In the event of there being no Northern Ireland team, British Citizens in "Ireland" would likely have the option to declare for either England, Wales or Scotland, in addition to "Ireland".

All pie in the sky anyway - the IFA is going to be around for many, many years to come...copper fastened by recent developments.

[EalingGreen]

1. It was not the dig at Staunton (we all do that) it was the sheer joy it generated, for you.
2. Your offensive language. I think it is the people on the receiving end and not the deliverer who determines what is offensive. No doubt you will argue otherwise.
3. Pitiful triumphant poems to celebrate Irish defeats. Very sad.

You are talking about South Africa, yet even some of their worst woke up in the end.

1. Forgive me for enjoying a laugh at the expense of your team. I trust you didn't giggle when NI were similarly awful three years back? Or won't, when/if we next suffer our own "San Marino"?

2. Please supply me an example of where I was "offensive" in my posts.

3. My poem was "celebrating" the the restoration of NI to its rightful and traditional place as the top team in Ireland. As such, that can only be done by reference to the other team in Ireland. I'm sorry* if it adds to your suffering as an ROI fan to be reminded of this.

And it was one of your compatriots (Galway Hoop?) who introduced S.A. into the debate. Personally, I don't think that example has much relevance to the issues being discussed here.

* - Actually, not that sorry. Hardly at all, in fact. Ah, balls, I'm not sorry in the slightest apart, perhaps, from the damage Stan's post-match Press Conference's are inflicting on my sides and bladder! ;)

[lopez]

Happens more than you think - Oleguer recently turned down a World cup place.I read MARCA every day and he wasn't picked. He was approached by Ara-cojones - Oleguer I think partook in a practice session arranged around the international calender; certainly he was pictured talking with Luis but old Luis decided to go with another defender instead for Germany. I must admit I didn't take much notice. A footballer not having the b*llocks to stand by his 'alleged' principles. Not exactly news?

TBF, he could have put enough spin on it to played for Spain. After all, Javier Clemente did the same, despite having a brother-in-law on good terms in ETA and claiming that Andalucia (or was that Spain?) was not his country when he managed Betis.

The only player I know who refused to play for Spain was Nacho of Compostela circa 1997 -1998. According to a Spanish mate, he was called up for the under 21s, and then went into a rant about wanting to play only for his country. He wasn't much cop, but my mate was infuriated by this slight. I'd previously saw Nacho being interviewed on Sky Sports Spanish footy, saying 'I want to play for my country, but it's a disgrace we haven't the same situation as the UK, etc.' I'd be interested in any others who have turned down a call.

[EalingGreen]

Personally I'd like to see the British remove all their irredentist simbols of Ireland. You can begin with the Sh*gger's cross on the Butcher's Apron, the German Lady's flag, and last but certainly least, that surrounding your football team. Play in Blue, black or Pink for all I care. :rolleyes:

An ironic choice from you EG? The Spanish coat of arms of which are still worn on the Spanish shirt has the yellow and red stripes representing the Catalans and the Chains of Navarra representing the Basques.

Re. your first para, I have no great desire to see my football team associated with political symbols either of an "Irish" [I]or "British" nature. I am quite happy for it to be a strictly "Norn Iron" affair. The clue is in the name: "Northern Ireland".

Re. your second para, how is the Spanish incorporation of "minority" symbols in their badge any different from the IFA's incorporation of "minority" symbols (Celtic Cross, shamrocks) in its badge?
I fail to see how your pointing them out supports your stance - quite the contrary in fact.
It seems to me to be yet another example of your confusing knowledge with understanding.

[lopez]

In the event of re-unification, I don't take it as a given that there would be a single Irish team.

I am well aware of those in Northern Ireland that profess England as their national team of preference - DCAL did some detailed research on this a couple of years back, and I believe it was 13% of those interviewed cited England as their first choice international team. Many of these would be hardcore "loyalists" - Billy Hutchinson being a well known example...
I was there for the Spain game in 2003. I saw about three Republic shirts in Belfast and one England shirt walking the other way as I walked out to WP. I'm not telling porkies when I say I didn't see one NI shirt until I got near the ground.

The research by DCAL is larger than I would have thought, but hardly surprising. BTW, how many had the 'Republic' as their first team?

[EalingGreen]

Drinking beside some England fans watching their game on Wednesday (all Geordies)and they really love NI! Will someone please break it gently to the good folk of NI exactly what the "mainland" really thinks of them.

In footballing terms, the fans of England, Scotland and Wales may think what they like of NI. I don't need their good (or bad) wishes any more than I do those e.g. of ROI, France, Botswana or Mongolia.

But thank you for your "Letter from Geordie Land"; perhaps their perceptions are ever so slightly coloured by memories of what happened to their team the last time they came to Windsor! :D

[lopez]

Re. your first para, I have no great desire to see my football team associated with political symbols either of an "Irish" or "British" nature. I am quite happy for it to be a strictly "Norn Iron" affair. The clue is in the name: "Northern Ireland".
You brought up the subject of 'symbols' of the NI team. Who the f*ck were you trying to impress here? Take the Irish symbols off, and stick on something that is more reflective of your British identity. You might eliminate the situation where 13% of the population support England.

Re. your second para, how is the Spanish incorporation of "minority" symbols in their badge any different from the IFA's incorporation of "minority" symbols (Celtic Cross, shamrocks) in its badge?
I fail to see how your pointing them out supports your stance - quite the contrary in fact.
It seems to me to be yet another example of your confusing knowledge with understanding.LOL. 'Come 'here: There's more!' :D


There are people in Spain, such as the Catalans, Basques, Galicians etc, who do not, to varying degrees, identify with the Spanish state and by extension, the Spanish National football team. Indeed, the desire for autonomy or independence etc is replicated similarly in many other countries around the world.

I do not hear you, or more importantly, FIFA, demanding that the respective FA's modify their flags, anthems, symbolism etc so as to incorporate disaffected minorities, so why do you demand this for NI?...

[EalingGreen]

You brought up the subject of 'symbols' of the NI team. Who the f*ck were you trying to impress here? Take the Irish symbols off, and stick on something that is more reflective of your British identity. You might eliminate the situation where 13% of the population support England.
LOL. 'Come 'here: There's more!' :D

Is it that you cannot comprehend, or are wilfully refusing to acknowledge, my position on this issue?

My being a supporter of NI does not reflect (or strengthen) my "British identity" any more than it compromises (or reflects) my "Irish identity".

My being an NI fan merely means that I support the NI football team, an entity which for me is neither "British" nor "Irish". This is why I am entirely happy to see the team's heritage reflected in distinctive and traditional symbols such as the Green shirt, the NI flag and the Celtic Cross.
It is also a principal reason why I would greatly like to see GSTQ replaced by something "Norn Iron".

Beyond that, I honestly couldn't give two hoots what the politics, religion, colour etc of the players or my fellow supporters are; so long as they are 100% behind the team, that's all that matters.

P.S. Why do you bring England fans into this debate? They do not want either a single Irish team or two partitioned Irish teams. Those 13% of the NI population who support England are of absolutely no concern to me. At best, they are sad, misguided individuals and at worst small-minded cretins. (Oh, and a few kids who I suppose might be forgiven for not knowing any better)

[lopez]

...P.S. Why do you bring England fans into this debate? They do not want either a single Irish team or two partitioned Irish teams. Those 13% of the NI population who support England are of absolutely no concern to me. At best, they are sad, misguided individuals and at worst small-minded cretins. (Oh, and a few kids who I suppose might be forgiven for not knowing any better)Why do you bring Scottish players who declare for Ireland into the rant 'O'Connor And Kane Go To The Darkside, when are these bigoted w*nkers going to wake up and realise some of their neighbours want to be Irish'? What daf*ck has that got to do with the rights and wrongs of Gibson, Kane et al, playing for their country.

13% supporting England. 45% supporting Ireland. How many does that leave supporting your country (sic.)? :D :D :D

[livehead1]

EalingGreen....please go away, very few people want you on here, and even less can be bothered with you. You don't seem to have a lot to do with yourself

[Traps Cat]

Ealing green , would - www.foot.ni not be a better website for you?

[livehead1]

Whereas, your proposed "hypothetical United Ireland team" is not at all analagous, since it requires the merging of two separate countries entirely. Spain may have several regions, but it's still one country.
Northern Ireland may as well be a state. You are pretty much ruled from Westminster, your Stormont has no legislative powers whatsoever, you are poorly represented in Westminster, you are simply a puppet state and a state where the politicians will try out their policy ideas before implementing them on the masses. I could list examples but seeing as your name suggests Ealing, and you live in Northern Ireland, im sure you have seen this in action.


The correct analogy for your "United Ireland team" would be a "United Iberian team" i.e. Spain and Portugal merged. But FIFA would never consider this, nor should it of course, even though the disaffected (Portugese) minority would only be 5% of the whole.

Now, onto the naming of teams. Our side is called IRELAND. Not the Republic of Ireland, simply Ireland. Forget a united team, the name gives me all the proof I need, that we are the representative side of this island




But it's all academic as far as I'm concerned, since I do not accept the basic premise of your argument i.e. the contrivance of a balance of symbolism between "Unionism" and "Nationalism".
This is because football in NI, and especially with representative teams, should not be reduced to a question of political allegiance - quite thje contrary, in fact..

Yes, this is a football forum...so why do you persist at bringing politics into the discussion wherever possible. When your fans stop making deaththreats to players 'representing' your 'national' side, then maybe football in your puppet state will not be 'reduced to a question of political allegiance'. your idiotic, British hooliganism is your own downfall.


It should be solely a geographical matter. For me, this means the international football team I support is NI, since that is the country I come from, as determined by FIFA.
By the same token, when it comes to rugby, my "patch" is Ireland, as determined by the IRB.

Well you have Michael Collins to thank for your 6 counties and your national side. Geography has damn all to do with it. Fifa determine the rules for your national side so you say, they also have rules that DO allow players from the 6 counties to play for us.

Whilst im on the subject, I have read on many occassions about a challenge in the courts or to fifa attempting to ban players from the North playing for us. Having studied EU law, there are provisions set aside that will continue to allow this to happen. Going to fifa is a waste of time, they would be better going to the European Courts. But then again in such a 'wee' country, theres probably a shortage of lawyers....(sorry, had to edit that, I just remembered, with your crime levels im sure the place is full of them!)

[livehead1]

Ealing green , would - www.foot.ni not be a better website for you?

you mean .co.uk.... Northern Ireland don't have domain names based there...there governed from the mainland

[galwayhoop]

Your attempt to adopt the Spanish example for your own purpose is fundamentally flawed. Spain is a country with a number of alienated minorities, yet you do not demand that they in some way "dilute" their "Spanishness" and/or incorporate some Basque/Catalan/Galician into the team.
The same circumstances apply to NI - an alienated minority etc..
you brought spain into it ealing not me. i just re-used an example which you had introduced. the 'alienated minority' you speak of in NI is only a minority by 9% (53% unionist, 44% nationalist, 3% other). i presume that the spanish situation is slightly different in that the 'minorities' make up a much smaller percentage of the overall population. interesting that you mentioned spain though in the first place as they, along with britain, were serial land-grabbers for most of their history. in fact you may know, or may not, that many nationalists feel empathy with the basques in particular as they identify with their struggle for independance.

As i said earlier this thread is about a united irish team. and as you seem so happy with how minorities are alienated in the spanish situation, i take it, that if there were a united irish team (or country), you would therefore be happy to play under the symbols of the nationalists with regard to flag and anthem. given that the unionist community would only represent about 15% of the overall population and would fall into the 'alienated minority' category you speak of??


The correct analogy for your "United Ireland team" would be a "United Iberian team" i.e. Spain and Portugal merged. ..
did i miss something in my geography in school? were spain and portugal only partioned in the last eighty years or so and do 44% of the portuguese class themselves as spanish? :confused:


the previous posts i have written about symbolism (yes flags) and anthems are to show how the NI team only represents one community and not the other. to put it in black and white: most, if not all, nationalists neither accept nor identify with GSTQ as their anthem or the Ulster flag (6 counties) as a flag that represents them. the flag only represents the unionist side (st. georges cross, red hand and crown).


that ealing is more likely the reason why nationalists choose to declare for RoI and not the 'inducements' which you are trying to invent on this forum.


Not Brazil's post earlier is a voice of reason on the current situation with regard to RoI & NI - it is the best available as it stands. 'nationalists' can represent a national side that they feel represents them (RoI) while 'unionists' play for NI.
everyone is happy... oh, no, hold on, some aren't though are they. some want FIFA to make a ruling which would force nationalists to play for a team which has the flag and anthem of only the unionist 9% majority and has made very little effort to represent both communities - granted small steps have been taken in the last couple of years to tone down the sectarianism of the support but it's a bit like bertie's campaign posters 'a bit done .... a hell of a lot more to do yet'.

EDIT: actually in real terms the unionists only have a 3% majority but we won't split hairs

[wexfordclockend]

Why do 13% of NI support the England football team anyway? Maybe they like the song about the old german lady? ;) Seems strange that as you would think more would be of Scottish extraction? Perhaps they don't like the prospect of an future independant Scotland:rolleyes:

If you want to find Irish people with English surnames & / or extraction you should try south Leinster & east Munster first!

Seems strange that NI fans are really bothered about those that play schoolboy football failing to declare for the senior side, many schoolboys have played for England including Ryan Giggs, Bob Wilson ect.

Judging by the large amounts of fans from NI that follow Ireland at away games from mostly the nationalist community, not too many are interested in the symbols that represent one tradition to the exclusion of the other, not to mention the team that promotes them!

[Not Brazil]

When your fans stop making deaththreats to players 'representing' your 'national' side,


livehead1,

Could I suggest that if you know the identity of the person(s) who made these death threats, that you pass the information onto the PSNI.

If you also know them to be a Northern Ireland fan, the IFA will be delighted to know their identity also.

Of course, Neil Lennon was not the only Northern Ireland player to receive death threats over the years - George Best was threatened by republican militants.

Do you remember when certain black ROI players received vile hate mail during Kerr's reign? Was that ROI fans?

Do you remember when the Aussie Rules player allegedly received a death threat during an International Rules series. GAA fans, was it?

[Not Brazil]

13% supporting England. 45% supporting Ireland.

How did you arrive at the 45% figure lopez?

[Not Brazil]

granted small steps have been taken in the last couple of years to tone down the sectarianism of the support but it's a bit like bertie's campaign posters 'a bit done .... a hell of a lot more to do yet'.


Of course, those from the North who were in San Marino "supporting" the ROI and singing their IRA and "**** The Queen" songs (as reported on this board) would be the first to condemn the "bigots" who follow Northern Ireland.:rolleyes:

[Not Brazil]

Why do 13% of NI support the England football team anyway? Maybe they like the song about the old german lady

England and Northern Ireland both play GSTQ before international football matches.

[livehead1]

livehead1,

Could I suggest that if you know the identity of the person(s) who made these death threats, that you pass the information onto the PSNI.

If you also know them to be a Northern Ireland fan, the IFA will be delighted to know their identity also.
are you speaking on behalf of the IFA here? If not, then don't pretend to.


Of course, Neil Lennon was not the only Northern Ireland player to receive death threats over the years - George Best was threatened by republican militants.
Lennon's was the only one in recent years deemed serious enough by the authorities that they advised him not to play.

[Not Brazil]

are you speaking on behalf of the IFA here? If not, then don't pretend to.

Lennon's was the only one in recent years deemed serious enough by the authorities that they advised him not to play.

I repeat - if you have any information that can help identify the person(s) responsible for the death threat against Neil Lennon, and can confirm categorically that he/they is/are Northern Ireland fans, I'm sure both the PSNI and the Community Relations Manager at the IFA will be only too glad to hear from you.

You can tell the CRM at the IFA that "Not Brazil" sent you.

[livehead1]

I repeat - if you have any information that can help identify the person(s) responsible for the death threat against Neil Lennon, and can confirm categorically that he/they is/are Northern Ireland fans, I'm sure both the PSNI and the Community Relations Manager at the IFA will be only too glad to hear from you.

You can tell the CRM at the IFA that "Not Brazil" sent you.

o dear, what a contradiction. On previous posts you are quite happer to conclude that republican's sent threats to george best, yet in this post you are asking me to confirm that it was northern ireland fans.

Then you also state that is they are ni fans the psni would like to find out who they are...so does that mean if their not, they don't???

[Not Brazil]

o dear, what a contradiction. On previous posts you are quite happer to conclude that republican's sent threats to george best, yet in this post you are asking me to confirm that it was northern ireland fans.

Then you also state that is they are ni fans the psni would like to find out who they are...so does that mean if their not, they don't???

No.

It means that if you have any information that can confirm the identity of the person(s) who issued the death threat to Neil Lennon, you should give that information to the PSNI.

If you have information that the culprit (s) can be identified as Northern Ireland fans, you should forward that information to to the Community Relations Manager at the IFA.

Comprende?

[Not Brazil]

Now, onto the naming of teams. Our side is called IRELAND. Not the Republic of Ireland, simply Ireland. Forget a united team, the name gives me all the proof I need, that we are the representative side of this island

Dream on.

[lopez]

... interesting that you mentioned spain though in the first place as they, along with britain, were serial land-grabbers for most of their history...Hold on GH. You're right about some of my ancestors being landgrabbers but they were landgrabbers off the Moors (No longer PC, so we'll stick to Arabs) who took the land in the first place upto the remoter parts of Northern Iberia. They then couldn't stop landgrabbing until they got to Tierra del Fuego, Manila, and Equatorial Guinea. But the landgrabbing was not done with either the Basques, Galicians or Catalans. The making of Spain was done by full acceptance of union by the leaders of the three peoples which were themselves in greater kingdoms themselves (Leon, Navarra and Aragon). Disenchantment of the minority came with Fat Frank.

To compare. Scotland can not claim to be victims of a land grab. Ireland can.

How did you arrive at the 45% figure lopez?Would you prefer the 55% that rang up the BBC supporting an all-Ireland team?


livehead1,

Could I suggest that if you know the identity of the person(s) who made these death threats, that you pass the information onto the PSNI.

If you also know them to be a Northern Ireland fan, the IFA will be delighted to know their identity also.

Of course, Neil Lennon was not the only Northern Ireland player to receive death threats over the years - George Best was threatened by republican militants.

Do you remember when certain black ROI players received vile hate mail during Kerr's reign? Was that ROI fans?

Do you remember when the Aussie Rules player allegedly received a death threat during an International Rules series. GAA fans, was it?I think Lennon's death threat was the most liklely to be acted on. I doubt the rah would have capped Bestie's ass.

But your right about the alleged being a NI fan. No proof. But neither is it likely to be a nationalist as some have more than snidely insinuated on ourweeminds. I'd place the person in the 13% you mentioned.

BTW, I meant to bring this up on a previous cyber rumble we had, but I found some poll that suggested a growing number of under 25 protestants who are favouring an independent Northern Ireland. (if you ask nicely I'll try and find it :o ) Unionism is perhaps dying in NI. If it is, you may well see yourweecountry actually become a reality in more than football terms.

[Not Brazil]

BTW, I meant to bring this up on a previous cyber rumble we had, but I found some poll that suggested a growing number of under 25 protestants who are favouring an independent Northern Ireland. (if you ask nicely I'll try and find it :o ) Unionism is perhaps dying in NI. If it is, you may well see yourweecountry actually become a reality in more than football terms.

Not a mission of an "independent Northern Ireland" coming into being.

PS. I don't put much stock on BBC "polls" - when 51% of Northern Ireland block bookers say they fancy a single Irish team, I'll take heed.

At the minute, I'd suggest the figure is about 50% short of that.;)

[geysir]

PS. I don't put much stock on BBC "polls" - when 51% of Northern Ireland block bookers say they fancy a single Irish team, I'll take heed.
At the minute, I'd suggest the figure is about 50% short of that.;)

That's what called gerrymandering the vote :)

[geysir]

Lennon's was the only one in recent years deemed serious enough by the authorities that they advised him not to play.
I'd guess that Lennon's resolve to play at that time was already weakened by the loud booing at the Norway game, not to mention McIlroy's post match attempts to downplay it's significance.
AFAIK, Lennon has come out publically to give fulsome praise to the NI fans as regards to the changes made since then. The Lennon episode is not a stick to beat the NI fans over, it was barometer of how low things got and a point from where you measure on how far things have moved on since then.

[lopez]

Not a mission of an "independent Northern Ireland" coming into being...If you're not interested, don't think for one minute I'm interested.

...PS. I don't put much stock on BBC "polls" - when 51% of Northern Ireland block bookers say they fancy a single Irish team, I'll take heed...That's not very democratic. :confused: I mean if we're talking about 'international' football we're talking the whole 'nation' of NI, no? Are you saying that your team is some sort of club, where only the season ticket holders or members have the right to decide if this 'club' disbands or merges with another?

I'd guess that Lennon's resolve to play at that time was already weakened by the loud booing at the Norway game, not to mention McIlroy's post match attempts to downplay it's significance...Were they NI fans? I think the PSNI would like to know if they were ACTUALLY NI fans that were doing the booing. Sure they weren't Norwegians, nationalists trying to make it seem it was NI fans, or the 13%? :D

[sylvo]

Of course, those from the North who were in San Marino "supporting" the ROI and singing their IRA and "**** The Queen" songs (as reported on this board) would be the first to condemn the "bigots" who follow Northern Ireland.:rolleyes:


Yes it was a sea of hate all right.:rolleyes: , I'm sure we are going too have to play our home games in places like Coventry, Norwich or Wrexham like our so called rival had to do in the seventys as well as Linfield had too. FFS:rolleyes:

[lopez]

Yes it was a sea of hate all right.:rolleyes: , I'm sure we are going too have to play our home games in places like Coventry, Norwich or Wrexham like our so called rival had to do in the seventys as well as Linfield had too. FFS:rolleyes:I must confess I did belt out a rendition of The Old Brigade in honour or foot.ie's 'Wanka of da Week' Ealing Green. Couldn't find the words for Long Way to Tipp Ayrie which is why that sectarian song was sung instead. Apologies to the easily offended...not!

[sylvo]

[QUOTE=EalingGreen;621146]1. Forgive me for enjoying a laugh at the expense of your team. I trust you didn't giggle when NI were similarly awful three years back? Or won't, when/if we next suffer our own "San Marino"?

Don't laugh to much now, after all they did cause us more problems then your weefakecountry did at Parc An windsor November 94, or on some of your visits to the capital when you left with a bit of a hiding and we had your bigot manager crying about how those nasty Ireland fans were singing ''theres only one team in Ireland.'':D

[sylvo]

I must confess I did belt out a rendition of The Old Brigade in honour or foot.ie's 'Wanka of da Week' Ealing Green. Couldn't find the words for Long Way to Tipp Ayrie which is why that sectarian song was sung instead. Apologies to the easily offended...not!


Sure its only a bit of craic:D , they even say that on ourweeminds.

[Not Brazil]

I'm sure we are going too have to play our home games in places like Coventry, Norwich or Wrexham like our so called rival had to do in the seventys

Remind me why that was?


I mean if we're talking about 'international' football we're talking the whole 'nation' of NI, no? Are you saying that your team is some sort of club, where only the season ticket holders or members have the right to decide if this 'club' disbands or merges with another?


It's all sorted now lopez.;)

Everyone's a winner - except those that harbour the notion of a single "Ireland" team. Their dreams are shattered.


''theres only one team in Ireland.'':D

Now a firm favourite at Parc An Windsor.:D

Looking forward to the "there's only one Stevie Staunton" chants in Vaduz next month.:D

[youngirish]

Not_Brazil you could have answered all those in the one post. To save on paper.

Save the whales.

[gustavo]

Not_Brazil you could have answered all those in the one post. To save on paper.

Save the whales.

I helped him out there:)