Dermot Ahern's comments on an all Ireland side [Archive] - Page 3

Not Brazil

30/01/2007, 9:35 AM

Just wanted to give my genuine belief on why and when the term "beggar" came into the vocabulary of many Northern Ireland fans.

As I understand it, it dates to the Charlton era when the ROI utilised eligibility rules to their great advantage.

Even tho Northern Ireland have since used these rules regularly themselves, the term has stuck.

It might be a hypocritical term and it was probably born out of a jealousy factor of our neighbours during Charlton's remarkable reign.

I do not believe that is used with any more malice than many other terms for rivals - and I accept that many ROI fans do not consider Northern Ireland "big" rivals.

lopez

30/01/2007, 10:50 AM

Not "incensed"...
'...how dare you make such an accusation against someone you've never met?' Yeah right! I haven't managed to p*ss someone off so much since the British Mercenary 'Tony Cascarino' f*cked out five posts in a hour to me after I insulted his former boss General Ante Govotina. :D

The rest of your post made so little sense it hardly deserves a response. Tip from the top though, never post when you've been at the sauce. But then senseless posts seem to be your speciality (Who can ever forget the suggestion of singing British Army songs at an Ireland game?) I'll try one last time.

If you don't like being called a bigot then don't use sectarian terms. Yeah it's all a football thing, blah, blah, blah, :rolleyes: but as you are so keen to point out being 'Irish born etc/brought up amongst bigotry/you'll never know what a terrible life we had reading books or watching TV' you should be the first to realise the sensitivity of the subject. And BTW, who gets to judge who should and shouldn't be offended? You and Bernard Manning or the people the insults are directed at?

EalingGreen

30/01/2007, 11:58 AM

Yeah right! I haven't managed to p*ss someone off so much since the British Mercenary 'Tony Cascarino' f*cked out five posts in a hour to me after I insulted his former boss General Ante Govotina. :D

I don't understand any of the above, nor do I wish to. It makes absolutely no contribution to a debate over a single Irish team.

The rest of your post made so little sense it hardly deserves a response. Tip from the top though, never post when you've been at the sauce. But then senseless posts seem to be your speciality (Who can ever forget the suggestion of singing British Army songs at an Ireland game?)

It wasn't a suggestion, it was an analogy (with your defence of singing political/IRA songs at ROI matches); once again, you misrepresent me.

I'll try one last time. If you don't like being called a bigot then don't use sectarian terms.

If I use sectarian terms, then I will accept being labelled a "bigot". So far, all you've managed to come up with is my occasional lighthearted use of the term "Beggar". I'll allow others to judge whether that is "sectarian", especially when set against my other posts on the subject (which you consistently ignore).

As for your contributions, however, these consistently fail to address any substantive issues. Instead, you just snipe from the sidelines in an attempt to "score points" and when challenged specifically on your sniping, your only response is a degeneration into gratuitous personal insults, couched in a style which you may consider to be characterful and witty, but instead comes across as pure horlicks. (Cascarino, Govotina etc).

Anyway, for the benefit of other readers, I'll point out (again) that if a single team is ever to have any hope of succeeding, it will only ever come about following a genuine meeting of minds of both NI and ROI supporters. As such, this thread has produced an interesting debate from the likes of Wolfie, Dr. Peepee, GSpain etc, and even those such as Co.DownGreen and Paddy Garcia, with whom NI fans like myself would disagree strongly.

However, whilst there are people like you proposing such an idea from the South (or should that be "East"?), then I can promise you that no NI fan will ever have the slightest interest; after all, we've enough headcases in our own support to deal with, without having to import some more from abroad.

P.S. Figured out that map, yet? You know, "nearest rivals" and all that...:eek:

lopez

30/01/2007, 12:09 PM

...So far, all you've managed to come up with is my occasional lighthearted use of the term "Beggar"...
Still don't geddit?

...As for your contributions... [etc. ad nauseum]YAWN!! :rolleyes:

Wolfie

30/01/2007, 12:45 PM

Will there be any resolution to this "Footballing Logjam" !!!!!!!!!

Maybe Roy Keane and Norman Whiteside could mediate!!

EalingGreen

30/01/2007, 1:37 PM

Will there be any resolution to this "Footballing Logjam" !!!!!!!!!

Maybe Roy Keane and Norman Whiteside could mediate!!

My money's on Stormin Norman to put Keane down before the third round's over. (or should that be "third round's drunk"?) :D

galwayhoop

30/01/2007, 1:41 PM

Re. your Bernard Manning line, quote me one example where I posted something racist or offensive, then tried to pretend I was joking, or that it wasn't serious, or that the butt of the joke should just put up with it, for the sake of pleasing me, rather than himself. Just one.

don't know if it is classed as bigotry but i took offense to this line you wrote earlier in the thread

"......when you wee mexicans are going through a bad patch. "

lopez

30/01/2007, 2:10 PM

don't know if it is classed as bigotry but i took offense to this line you wrote earlier in the thread

"......when you wee mexicans are going through a bad patch. "Mexicans? South of the border, down me-hee-co way. 'Out in the North Louth town of Dundalk/I fell in love with a Mexican girl/Nighttime would find me in Rosa's cantina /Music would play and Feleena would whirl.' Geddit? Very funny mans ees our Heeeling Green.:rolleyes:

Not Brazil

30/01/2007, 2:21 PM

don't know if it is classed as bigotry but i took offense to this line you wrote earlier in the thread

"......when you wee mexicans are going through a bad patch. "

Why?:confused:

Jamjar

30/01/2007, 2:26 PM

Why?:confused:

Maybe he's a big mexican

galwayhoop

30/01/2007, 2:31 PM

Why?:confused:

what does a wee mexican have to do with the ROI

Not Brazil

30/01/2007, 2:39 PM

what does a wee mexican have to do with the ROI

Lopez's post might explain it to you.

It may or may not be funny, but it's hardly the stuff to get offended by.

That would be akin to suggesting that people should be offended by the term "hun" - of which I'm sure you're familiar.;)

EalingGreen

30/01/2007, 2:40 PM

what does a wee mexican have to do with the ROI

Bloody Hell! Do I have to explain everything to you lot? ;)

"Mexicans" is a term of endearment employed by "Nordies" to refer to their Southern cousins. I've always presumed that it comes from the Lyric of (South of the Border) "Down Mexico Way" - coincidentally written by Ulsterman Jimmy Kennedy.

I've heard Southerners use the term in reference to themselves. It has a particular relevance to Lionel Ritchie (to whose post I was replying when I used it)

No doubt, though, this along with my use of the term "Beggar" is conclusive proof of my "bigotry" to the likes of Lopez - the self-same Oirishman who defends the singing of IRA songs at ROI football matches...:rolleyes:

cheifo

30/01/2007, 3:13 PM

Maybe he's a big mexican

:D
This debate proves there never will be a united Ireland soccer team.Itsnever going to happen, lets move on.

RedMick

30/01/2007, 3:57 PM

:D
This debate proves there never will be a united Ireland soccer team.Itsnever going to happen, lets move on.

Six pages of sh ite, could have been saved if someone had said this at the start :D

PS There's never going to be a United Ireland either!! (Dons tin hat):D

Wolfie

30/01/2007, 4:46 PM

:D
This debate proves there never will be a united Ireland soccer team.Itsnever going to happen, lets move on.

Yep. I think I said as much on page 2.

On the more important issue - I still reckon Keane to beat Whiteside - no contest!!

galwayhoop

30/01/2007, 7:53 PM

Lopez's post might explain it to you.

It may or may not be funny, but it's hardly the stuff to get offended by.

That would be akin to suggesting that people should be offended by the term "hun" - of which I'm sure you're familiar.;)

so if i made the following statement on OWC it would not offend anyone:

the raising of a single Irish team came well before ye huns up north started to go through a relatively decent patch.

;)

lopez

30/01/2007, 7:59 PM

...No doubt, though, this along with my use of the term "Beggar" is conclusive proof of my "bigotry" to the likes of Lopez - the self-same Oirishman who defends the singing of IRA songs at ROI football matches...No more 'conclusive proof' is required.

BTW, thanks to the 'boys of the old brigade' I am able to watch a team that plays something other than some sh*te about a German woman as its national anthem, and that my country's flag is more representative than some rampant toff's coat of arms related to some w*nkers' club, hidden at the back of two other countries' flags. True, they only managed to get what? 80% of the country, but if you've ever read of British history of the time (I doubt you read anything more exerting than the Daily Sport) it was an superb acheivement getting that. Basically, to paraphrase a ditty another of your 'nearest rivals' would sing (ones that you have played a hell of lot more than us, and have managed to get matches switched to neutral venues more successfully than the FAI) : 'If it weren't for them [the boys], we'd be Brits.' I'll devote a special rendition to you next week in San Marino. :cool:

Not Brazil

30/01/2007, 8:19 PM

so if i made the following statement on OWC it would not offend anyone:

the raising of a single Irish team came well before ye huns up north started to go through a relatively decent patch.

;)

Would it offend you? ;)

lopez

30/01/2007, 9:46 PM

...That would be akin to suggesting that people should be offended by the term "hun" - of which I'm sure you're familiar.;)I never understand that one. Huns? Where's that one come from? Surely, it should be the other way around. When EG's pop pickers were top of the charts, wasn't Roger Casement hanging out with the 'Huns?'

Not Brazil

31/01/2007, 1:24 PM

THIS IS AN IRISH SITE.

:eek:

As an Irishman, I thought I would like to contribute to a discusion about talks to merge the two Irish teams.

Apologies if that annoys you.

youngirish

31/01/2007, 1:44 PM

:eek:

As an Irishman, I thought I would like to contribute to a discusion about talks to merge the two Irish teams.

Apologies if that annoys you.
Exactly. We are all Irish (whether some people like to admit it or not). If we stopped arguing and fighting amongst ourselves we could long have taken over the world. Let's get it sorted, make up and all hold hands together and invade somewhere (preferrably someplace with oil and fit women though it's hard to satisfy both counts I admit).

ifk101

31/01/2007, 1:46 PM

I really don't see the point of an all Ireland side. It's not like we're missing out on any talent coming through in the North - anyone half-decent wants to play with us and if they're good enough they'll get their chance. Better that the North continues with its national team as those players that aren't good enough for us can get the chance to play international football with their second option.

lopez

31/01/2007, 1:56 PM

Tuff Paddy these sorts of posts are very unlike you. Is Lopez using your account?Not guilty! :rolleyes: I think the plural (muppets as opposed to muppet) is a bit unwarranted. One poster comes on here and behaves with dignity while carrying no baggage from insulting us on other forums. The other is just taking the p*ss.

...Let's get it sorted, make up and all hold hands together and invade somewhere (preferrably someplace with oil and fit women though it's hard to satisfy both counts I admit).There is a place and it's called Norway.

Billsthoughts

31/01/2007, 6:59 PM

Frankly, none of us knows and I don't altogether care, since there doesn't have to be a reason or explanation - it's just one of those things. (Perhaps you'd be better thinking up a corresponding nickname for us. "Benefactors" perhaps? After all, we gave you the game ;) )

Or the Borzas as you have so many chips on your shoulders......

EalingGreen

01/02/2007, 11:35 AM

Or the Borzas as you have so many chips on your shoulders......

"Borzas"? :confused:

Wolfie

01/02/2007, 12:10 PM

Bloody Hell! Do I have to explain everything to you lot? ;) ...:rolleyes:

"Borzas"

The tables turn.............

EalingGreen

01/02/2007, 12:45 PM

"Borzas"

The tables turn.............

Touche! ;) So go on then, is one of yiz gonna let this poor Nordie in on the joke? Before we "return serve" with these particular tables:

http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/index/0,2548,27275-Jan-2007,00.html

http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/rank/compare.html?static=5

EalingGreen

01/02/2007, 12:50 PM

Meanwhile, back on the topic of political interference in Football, generally, and FIFA's view specifically, the following is interesting:

Poland and Kenya warned about governmental interference

Under the leadership of chairman Viacheslav Koloskov (Russia), the FIFA Associations Committee met today at the Home of FIFA in Zurich and issued a strong reprimand to governmental authorities who continue to interfere in affairs in the football communities of Poland and Kenya in clear contravention of the internationally accepted standards and statutes of FIFA.
Polish football could face dire consequences should Polish minister of sport Tomasz Lipiec not reverse his decision to appoint a commissioner to head the Polish Football Association (PZPN) - contrary to the roadmap jointly agreed upon during his visit to Zurich on 16 October 2006 - or allow the internationally recognised administration of the PZPN to organise elections by 31 March under the supervision of FIFA and UEFA observers. Such non-compliance with FIFA principles would prevent the PZPN from establishing an executive board in line with the new statutes ratified by its general assembly on 7 January, thus risking a suspension of the federation and all of its members (clubs, players, officials) from all international contact, participation in international competitions at all levels, the organisation of international matches and the appointment of officials for international duties, as well as freezing voting rights and access to Financial Assistance Programme payments.

Concerning Kenya, the committee lamented the fact that despite recent improvements in the relations with the football community in the East African nation, the problems were still far from being resolved due to the Ministry of Sport's systematic obstruction of progress and the National Sport Committee's interference with the federation and local clubs. The Associations Committee decided that unless a clear commitment was made by the Kenyan government and Ministry of Sport by 28 February 2007 to fully respect the FIFA Statutes and comply with the established roadmap for the normalisation of football in the country, the suspension of the federation would continue for the foreseeable future, without a likelihood of change.

The committee also reviewed the status of situations in the associations of Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Iran, Macedonia, Peru, Senegal, Togo, Turkey and Tunisia, and noted with satisfaction that progress had been made in a number of cases, while agreeing to continue to monitor each of them closely.

(From: http://www.fifa.com/en/media/index/0,1369,130856,00.html?articleid=130856 )

youngirish

01/02/2007, 12:52 PM

Wolfie

01/02/2007, 12:58 PM

Touche! ;) So go on then, is one of yiz gonna let this poor Nordie in on the joke? Before we "return serve" with these particular tables:

http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/index/0,2548,27275-Jan-2007,00.html

http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/rank/compare.html?static=5

Billsthoughts, will you do the honours on enlightening this particular Borza..............Salt / Vinegar?

EalingGreen

01/02/2007, 1:18 PM

EalingGreen congratulations on being above us in the rankings for the first time ever. I do find it funny though as you are setting yourself up for a serious fall if you think you'll stay there with the players you have. How everyone so easily forgets Iceland 3-0 at home. A poorer result than Cyprus. Enjoy it while you can I imagine you'll be in hiding by the time the groups wind down at the end of the year and the true quality shines through (probably not us in fairness but definitely not NI).

Don't you mean "above us in the rankings for the first time since the tables were first compiled"?

You might not be old enough to remember, but when we were e.g. qualifying for World Cup Finals in 58, 82 and 86, or e.g. the ROI was going six whole years without a competitive home win, I dare say our stock was somewhat the higher!

As for the Iceland game, having been there, granted it was a shocking result, but the score didn't truly reflect the way the match went. And besides, at least we were playing the whole of Iceland...;)

Anyhow, I shall enjoy it while it lasts, just as I shall endure it if and when it changes. At the IFA, we've learned how to take the rough with the smooth for over 125 years now, which is why the (highly debateable) prospect of a "better" team were we to be merged with the ROI*, holds absolutely no appeal for us whatever. :)

* - Or worse still, "subsumed by"

Calcio Jack

01/02/2007, 1:46 PM

EalingGreen

01/02/2007, 2:08 PM

Got a 'gem' of a magazine yesterday...called Football Digest... any way has an excellent article on Shamrock Rovers and this matter and effectively comes to the conclusion as posted by many here ie the IFA & FAI will never amalgamate due to the fear of loss of "jobs" by the blazers from both sides....

Many observers (from the Mexican end of the island, at least) point first to this "jobs for the boys" obstacle when assessing the chances of a single team.

But whilst I agree it is undoubtedly true, it is imo merely yet another (the final?) hurdle which would have to be vaulted before there was any chance of change.

How can we get it across that the vast majority of NI fans don't want a single team under virtually any circumstance? Unless or until there is an 180 degree turn in attitudes generally North of the Border, a single team is a non-starter and won't even get as far as "the Blazers" for their approval, or otherwise.

lopez

01/02/2007, 2:29 PM

...Unless or until there is an 180 degree turn in attitudes generally North of the Border, a single team is a non-starter and won't even get as far as "the Blazers" for their approval, or otherwise.Would you see members of parliament or the NI Assembly getting involved?

youngirish

01/02/2007, 2:31 PM

Don't you mean "above us in the rankings for the first time since the tables were first compiled"?

No I meant ever.

osarusan

01/02/2007, 2:42 PM

No I meant ever.

Are you really saying that, until recently when the Northern Irish side went above the Republic's side in the rankings, there had never been a time before that when the North's side would have been considered superior?

Or are you confining it just to what the rankings say?

youngirish

01/02/2007, 2:45 PM

Are you really saying that, until recently when the Northern Irish side went above the Republic's side in the rankings, there had never been a time before that when the North's side would have been considered superior?

Or are you confining it just to what the rankings say?

I'm saying that NI have never been ahead of us in the rankings before as stated in my original post. Ever.

Billsthoughts

01/02/2007, 11:25 PM

eh borzas own a lot of chippers in juarez...i mean dublin.....
i dont really care how we do in relation to the north. good on them for the way they are playin the mo.
dont want an all ireland team either but do think players from the north who want to play for ireland should be allowed play for them.

Qwerty

02/02/2007, 2:01 AM

EalingGreen

02/02/2007, 12:12 PM

As I said before it will happen in it's own good time, there is no need to rush it and it far too early yet to even spend time fretting about it.

Right now from a team perspective NI don't have any world class players - nobody eevn close to be honest, they have a few players who would strengthen our squad a little bit but NI can their recent success down to good management just as we can put down our recent decline to poor management.

Effective management is more important than the players really. We will always have decent players available to us, I wish I could say the same about our managers and the FAI.

Fair enough, Q, I wouldn't argue with too much of that. But it does serve to emphasise yet another difference between supporters of the ROI and NI.
Reading this Board has told me that a significant section, at least, of ROI fans sees a single team not as some new entity, but merely as "the old 26", with "6 added on".
Your post now sheds futher light on why some ROI should want this, not merely what they want: a single team would be "better", since it would have access to a wider pool of players.
I daresay that would be the case; then again, if NI were to join up with the other 3 home countries to form a UK team that would be stronger still. Indeed, if one were to go the whole hog and have a British Isles team, like the rugby Lions, that would be strongest of all.
Except that neither of those prospects holds any more joy for me than would a single Irish team.
This is because, deep down, it is not about being the best, it is about being ourselves. We know we are never going to win the World Cup as part of a single team, though as it happens, we have come as close as NI as the ROI ever has - despite what Roy Keane might have thought in Saipan!
Which, when it boils down to it, demonstrates why we sing our favourite song with such gusto:
"We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland,
But it's all the same to me!" :cool:

livehead1

02/02/2007, 12:18 PM

Fair enough, Q, I wouldn't argue with too much of that. But it does serve to emphasise yet another difference between supporters of the ROI and NI.
Reading this Board has told me that a significant section, at least, of ROI fans sees a single team not as some new entity, but merely as "the old 26", with "6 added on".
Your post now sheds futher light on why some ROI should want this, not merely what they want: a single team would be "better", since it would have access to a wider pool of players.
I daresay that would be the case; then again, if NI were to join up with the other 3 home countries to form a UK team that would be stronger still. Indeed, if one were to go the whole hog and have a British Isles team, like the rugby Lions, that would be strongest of all.
Except that neither of those prospects holds any more joy for me than would a single Irish team.
This is because, deep down, it is not about being the best, it is about being ourselves. We know we are never going to win the World Cup as part of a single team, though as it happens, we have come as close as NI as the ROI ever has - despite what Roy Keane might have thought in Saipan!
Which, when it boils down to it, demonstrates why we sing our favourite song with such gusto:
"We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland,
But it's all the same to me!" :cool:

go and post ya tripe on your own forums! all you do is constantly make disparaging comments about our team, im not on about this post in particular, im on about in general. why do you bother coming on here at all?

EalingGreen

02/02/2007, 12:38 PM

go and post ya tripe on your own forums! all you do is constantly make disparaging comments about our team, im not on about this post in particular, im on about in general. why do you bother coming on here at all?

go and post ya tripe on your own forums! all you do is constantly make disparaging comments about our sport, im not on about this post in particular, im on about your signature. why do you bother coming on here at all?

P.S. If you really want to know why I'm posting on this subject, there's a wee clue in the title of the thread...;)

P.P.S. How are things back in Oireland? You know, I haven't been in O'Nottinghamshire since I was a wee babby, and the Mammy used to take me to watch the colleens dancing at the crossroads, through the long summer nights... :rolleyes:

gustavo

02/02/2007, 12:52 PM

lopez

02/02/2007, 1:29 PM

...P.P.S. How are things back in Oireland? You know, I haven't been in O'Nottinghamshire since I was a wee babby, and the Mammy used to take me to watch the colleens dancing at the crossroads, through the long summer nights... :rolleyes:What's the Orange marching season like in Ealing then? :rolleyes:

EalingGreen

02/02/2007, 3:00 PM

What's the Orange marching season like in Ealing then? :rolleyes:

Haven't the foggiest. Why don't you ask an Orangeman? There must be some to be had near where you come from in Ireland...:rolleyes:

Billsthoughts

02/02/2007, 7:10 PM

P.P.S. How are things back in Oireland? You know, I haven't been in O'Nottinghamshire since I was a wee babby, and the Mammy used to take me to watch the colleens dancing at the crossroads, through the long summer nights... :rolleyes:
bit of a cheap shot.(if still funny..)
AFAIR he is from sligo just going to college in england...if he wants to play gealic football so whaT? most people I know play both and excel at both.
As for lopezs orange comment. :rolleyes: save it for your celtic forums...

lopez

02/02/2007, 9:59 PM

...As for lopezs orange comment. :rolleyes: save it for your celtic forums...Sorry, but you know something I don't?

Haven't the foggiest. Why don't you ask an Orangeman? I asked the next best thing on matters of bigotry.

livehead1

02/02/2007, 10:49 PM

go and post ya tripe on your own forums! all you do is constantly make disparaging comments about our sport, im not on about this post in particular, im on about your signature. why do you bother coming on here at all?

P.S. If you really want to know why I'm posting on this subject, there's a wee clue in the title of the thread...;)

P.P.S. How are things back in Oireland? You know, I haven't been in O'Nottinghamshire since I was a wee babby, and the Mammy used to take me to watch the colleens dancing at the crossroads, through the long summer nights... :rolleyes:

You don't make sense. You seem to apparently have a dig at me for living in Nottingham, yet your name refers to an area of London? Nottingham is a very fine city, but that would be straying from the point. As for my signature? What exactly does that prove? I play for a Gaelic Football Club over here and actually had the pleasure of representing the County against Roscommon in an All-Ireland Junior semi-final recently....sorry im straying from the point once more. Let me come to it swiftly. Your posts are a waste of time. You are not a Republic of Ireland soccer fan, you come onto this forum, irritating people with your remarks about our national side. This is not your national side. I believe, from your posts that Northern Ireland is your national side, although from your name, i was led to believe your allegiences lie with England.