Henry the cheat

[Karlos]

ding ding, seconds out, round two! :D

[Clifford]

Where is the vitriol.

6 pages worth here, a separate poll thread wondering should he be banned for falling to the ground ffs - why no poll for the 50 other diving players? Good Lord.

I know you'll keep coming back as it's a last word sort of thing with you always so take it away.....

[NeilMcD]

Well I dont believe personal insults should be brought into it and I dont think the poll was warranted in my view. Not sure there was any vitriol from me and I did not notice any from other people but have not read every post on Henry so maybe there has been.

[Clifford]

Peeps in awaiting the Ballack the Cheat thread after he hit the deck holding his face last night after hammering the Italian defender......ha ha, only joshing....

[londonirish17]

Well what about C. Ronaldo than lads ?
He is a total disgrace, a big cheat...

[NeilMcD]

Not sure what C Ronaldo did to be honest. Drawing the referees attention to a foul is hardly cheating in my view.

[Plastic Paddy]

He threw himself to the ground for that penalty. No denying the contact but the momentum would not have taken him down. The man's a disgrace to himself and his talent. :mad:

:ball: PP

[Junior]

He threw himself to the ground for that penalty. No denying the contact but the momentum would not have taken him down. The man's a disgrace to himself and his talent. :mad:

:ball: PP

Bit strong PP, I know what your getting at but his 'exagerrated fall' did not alter any decision just looked a bit silly.

[Plastic Paddy]

Bit strong PP, I know what your getting at but his 'exagerrated fall' did not alter any decision just looked a bit silly.

I don't agree Junior; by his action Henry tried to influence the referee and that, in my book, is cheating. I detest utterly the gamesmanship that has manifested itself in football and has been all too apparent throughout this World Cup. FIFA don't really want to know, referees seem incapable of acting on it and it's completely spoiling the game as far as I am concerned. Henry's example last night was yet another example of this.

Instead of seeing the kids practising their ball skills in the local park, more often than not now I see them practising their diving and rolling-around skills. By acting in the way they do - and getting away with it - Henry and his ilk directly contribute to this.

:ball: PP

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not so sure. Cheating would be throwing himself to ground if he hadn't been kicked at all. There's no doubt Carvalho kicked him but there's equally no doubt, in my opinion, that the kick was not sufficient to send Henry to ground.

C. Ronaldo cheated when having missed the header he threw himself through the air to con the ref that he was pushed. Van Nistelrooy is a master at that particular one. Rooney cheated at Old Trafford when Sol Campbell withrdrew his foot from a tackle but Rooney still dived and so on.

If the Carvalho kick had been 80 yards the other end of the pitch would it (or could it) have been given as a foul? Probably.

I think what Henry did in this instance was to make sure that the kick was seen by the ref by exaggerating the outcome. Cheating or gamesmanship?

It'sa pity really because Henry had the freedom of the penalty box to collect the ball and try & beat Ricardo. The ball was running a bit wide but if he'd stayed up it was still a gilt edged chance I think.

[Dodge]

He threw himself to the ground for that penalty. No denying the contact but the momentum would not have taken him down.
Agree with this totally. Whilst that in itself is not disgraceful IMO his total f.ucking hypocrasy is.

[Macy]

Difference is, Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy et al didn't go on a big rant about diving and how they wouldn't cheat only a matter of weeks ago. Henry is getting singled out for his hypocrisy, not because he's doing anything different to anyone else.

I don't see why that's so hard for the likes of Clifford, Karlos etc to comprehend - Henry made himself the target of this with his Champions League final rant.

[Clifford]

Well Macy if you've never ever seen Henry take a dive or make a tackle look worse than it was before the CL final and swallowed the guff he spoke that night then so be it, it's all about opinions eh?

Last night's tackle was a foul, Henry left his leg there to make sure, but don't they all. It's up to the refs to do something about it, 8 dives from the Portugese last night, not one free, but not one yellow.

[ColinR]

i have absolutly no problem with last nights penalty. it was a clumsy tackle, henry could have hurdled it, but why should he?

portugal were a bad though, postiga's and ronaldo's claims for penalties were so blatantly contrieved and deserved bookings.

however, the bbc panel were way over the top about them, basically saying it would devalue a win, if they won through diving (convienantly forgetting the divers on the english team - cole x2, gerrard, rooney, owen who they never criticise :rolleyes: )

they didn't show a replay of when zidane went down without a free kick being awarded, but would be interested to know if it was a dive.

[Plastic Paddy]

Last night's tackle was a foul, Henry left his leg there to make sure

No he didn't - he didn't need to. It was his flouncing afterwards - as if the ref needed to be convinced - that's the bone of contention here.


but don't they all.

And that makes it right how exactly? :rolleyes:


It's up to the refs to do something about it

And FIFA. But most of all it's also up to the players to recognise the profound influence they have on others, especially the young, and to stop cheating. You sound like an apologist from the Players' Union.


i have absolutly no problem with last nights penalty. it was a clumsy tackle, henry could have hurdled it, but why should he?

No he couldn't - he didn't have time. Too many people are missing the point that he DIVED to influence the referee to give a penalty; something I'm certain he would have done anyway without Henry's dying swan act.


portugal were a bad though, postiga's and ronaldo's claims for penalties were so blatantly contrieved and deserved bookings.

I totally agree; bookings at the very least should have been issued. But until FIFA issue a clear and unambiguous line on this, referees will continue to prevaricate and players will continue to cheat. :(

:ball: PP

[Stuttgart88]

Joe Cole dives and also does the theatrical rolling around bit. Michael Owen dives too. Argentina was an obvious one but does anyone remember a waxy 3-2 home win over Slovakia about 3 years ago when he simply threw himself to the ground for a penno? My scouser mates sarcastically call him St. Michael.

After the Hungary friendly Ian Wright Wright Wright said he had no problem with English players diving.

Jamie Redknapp wrote in the Daily Mail last week ( I bought all the papers last Sunday & Monday!!) that England should start diving more.

Fine, let them believe they have the best squad & that the reason they're out is diving. They contradict themselves anyway as they concede they were better when Rooney went off.

Point taken about the hypocrisy of Henry's anti-diving stance, but I wouldn't judge Henry's character on his post-CL final rant. The guy was heartbroken & in the heat of the moment lost the run of himself. We've all said dumb things in the heat of the moment, it's just that none of us has a televised audience of millions.

[Clifford]

i have absolutly no problem with last nights penalty. it was a clumsy tackle, henry could have hurdled it, but why should he?



Cos there's a witch hunt..:D He's not allowed.

[NeilMcD]

Ronaldo was a disgrace last night in my view. A total joke of a performance.

[Clifford]

And that makes it right how exactly? :rolleyes:




I never said it was right, just stating the fact's, they all do it cos they get away with it.



And FIFA. But most of all it's also up to the players to recognise the profound influence they have on others, especially the young, and to stop cheating. You sound like an apologist from the Players' Union.

But until FIFA issue a clear and unambiguous line on this, referees will continue to prevaricate and players will continue to cheat.


So which is it? I understand what your saying totally to be honest.

What I don't get is this idea that all the youth of today will go around throwing themselves down like the cry baby cos they saw it on tv. Do you think all these "Top Class" stars made it to where they are now by rolling around above in Pophams field on a wet Sunday morning in Jan? They get to a certain point and then it seems to become acceptable. Even Rooney was against a dive at Everton, but that soon worked it's way into his game at Man USA.

[Clifford]

Ronaldo was a disgrace last night in my view. A total joke of a performance.

Agreed totally, how did he not get booked for simulation many times?

Edit: That one in the first half, the flying header actually had a bit of a double movement, incredible.

[ColinR]

Even Rooney was against a dive at Everton, but that soon worked it's way into his game at Man USA.

in fairness to rooney, the only dive of his i can remember was the one against arsenal - a pretty important one at that. if he was the 'diver' he had about three or four oppurtunites to get an easy free in the incident before he was sent off. maybe he just dives in the box, where the rewards are much greater.

as for it having an impression on kids. believe me it is, i managed an under 9s team before moving to scotland, and even at that age there was some players at it. kids are not stupid, if they see players succeed at this on tv, they will copy it.

[Clifford]

in fairness to rooney, the only dive of his i can remember was the one against arsenal - a pretty important one at that.

So that makes it ok? Ha ha..

He goes over like a sack of spuds along with the best of them, but a lot of the time his sheer physical prescence gets him through contact that would kill most, I'm not picking on him just used his move as an example cos it's most recent. Shaun Wright Philips is another great example.

Edit: As for the kids thing, yeah they impersonate it now and again, but it isn't accepted in schools football so it won't make them progress up the ladder. Even George O Callaghan was not a diver at schools level imagine..

[ColinR]

Ronaldo was a disgrace last night in my view. A total joke of a performance.

i don't understand ronaldo being singled out. he had one dive for a penalty which should have been booked, i can't remember any other dives. i thought it was a much more constructive performance from him. he was easily the best portuguesse player on the pitch, and didn't dive as much as some others. joke performances did come from deco, pauletta and postiga when he came on.

[shakermaker1982]

Joe Cole dives and also does the theatrical rolling around bit. Michael Owen dives too. Argentina was an obvious one but does anyone remember a waxy 3-2 home win over Slovakia about 3 years ago when he simply threw himself to the ground for a penno? My scouser mates sarcastically call him St. Michael.

After the Hungary friendly Ian Wright Wright Wright said he had no problem with English players diving.

Jamie Redknapp wrote in the Daily Mail last week ( I bought all the papers last Sunday & Monday!!) that England should start diving more.

Fine, let them believe they have the best squad & that the reason they're out is diving. They contradict themselves anyway as they concede they were better when Rooney went off.

Point taken about the hypocrisy of Henry's anti-diving stance, but I wouldn't judge Henry's character on his post-CL final rant. The guy was heartbroken & in the heat of the moment lost the run of himself. We've all said dumb things in the heat of the moment, it's just that none of us has a televised audience of millions.

100% spot on. I'm losing my temper in the office today about this very issue!!! The English boys here think it's some kind of conspiracy......

Lineker made a living out of rolling over in the penalty box (Cameroon 1990 being his high point). Owen 1998 against Argentina is another famous sky dive. Throw in Gerrard and Joe Cole and I don't know how they have the cheek to slag off Ronaldo.

[Junior]

I don't agree Junior; by his action Henry tried to influence the referee and that, in my book, is cheating. I detest utterly the gamesmanship that has manifested itself in football and has been all too apparent throughout this World Cup. FIFA don't really want to know, referees seem incapable of acting on it and it's completely spoiling the game as far as I am concerned. Henry's example last night was yet another example of this.

Instead of seeing the kids practising their ball skills in the local park, more often than not now I see them practising their diving and rolling-around skills. By acting in the way they do - and getting away with it - Henry and his ilk directly contribute to this.

:ball: PP

Likewise PP, Im cheesed off with the amount of diving, play acting etc... Just didn't think this instance warranted particular scrutiny.

Are you really seeing kids in the park diving around instead of practising their ball skills or is that just a cliche????

As I mentioned in another post. Until, not only Fifa and Officials but also team mates, managers & coaches and fans chastise those responsible it will continue.

Unfortunately I think it really needs a senior figure to stand up and be counted, whether that be an International Manager or captain showing his disappointment for one of his own players, if that happened I think the rest would follow.....................................

I guess that means a new pair of specs for Wenger. Just thought I'd throw that in for the Anti-Arsenal conspiracy theorists................

[Plastic Paddy]

Likewise PP, Im cheesed off with the amount of diving, play acting etc... Just didn't think this instance warranted particular scrutiny.

Fair enough, but given the nature of the prize at stake, i.e. a place in the World Cup Final, that would in itself seem to suggest the particular scrutiny you mention is necessary.


Are you really seeing kids in the park diving around instead of practising their ball skills or is that just a cliche????

I wish it was a case my over-egging the pudding, so to speak, but no. You too can see the diving contest for yourself on Ravenscourt Park community pitch most Thursday evenings when staff from one of the three League clubs in my borough provide coaching to local eight-to-ten year-olds. What's more, the coaching staff themselves seem not to bother correcting this behaviour, which only seems to reinforce it IMO.


As I mentioned in another post. Until, not only Fifa and Officials but also team mates, managers & coaches and fans chastise those responsible it will continue.

Unfortunately I think it really needs a senior figure to stand up and be counted, whether that be an International Manager or captain showing his disappointment for one of his own players, if that happened I think the rest would follow.....................................

I guess that means a new pair of specs for Wenger. Just thought I'd throw that in for the Anti-Arsenal conspiracy theorists................

Agreed, agreed and agreed. Especially where Wenger is concerned. ;)

:ball: PP

[NeilMcD]

i don't understand ronaldo being singled out. he had one dive for a penalty which should have been booked, i can't remember any other dives. i thought it was a much more constructive performance from him. he was easily the best portuguesse player on the pitch, and didn't dive as much as some others. joke performances did come from deco, pauletta and postiga when he came on.


Lads this forum is turning into a joke. You cant Criticise a player anymore without someone else saying what about this person and why are you only concentrating on so and so.

Its impossible to list every player that has ever dived or cheated or gone over when they should not have. So you can just make a point as it comes to your mind or as you have seen it the night before. There are many more divers other than Ronaldo and Henry. Nobody on here could list every single player that has ever dived.

[ColinR]

Lads this forum is turning into a joke. You cant Criticise a player anymore without someone else saying what about this person and why are you only concentrating on so and so.

apologies if you feel that, but you singalled out one player who is been in the media a lot over the last few days and said his performance was a joke. his dive was a joke definately, but his performance was actually much improved. he might have been the obvious person to criticise given the media attention, and maybe thats why you have singalled him out, but there was a hell of a lot of worse portuguesse players diving around last night.

[Junior]

Ronaldo's footballing performance was pretty good. Probably Portugals most influential player.

His few dives were pathetic and worthy of yellow cards. Though there is little point in starting that action now in a Semi final of the tournament. That should have been the case since Germany v Costs Rica. A lost opportunity for FIFA.

[Dodge]

Lads this forum is turning into a joke. You cant Criticise a player anymore without someone else saying what about this person and why are you only concentrating on so and so.

Half mod speak In fairness Neil, the only stoopid (sic) comments on this thread (and the other WC ones) are the "XXX is a disgrace/joke of a footballer". So far we've had Totti, Ronaldo and Henry labelled as such. Two of them by you. Now if you can't stand people disputing these points, don't be making such ridiculous OTT statements.

For the record here's my opinion of those three in this tournament

Totti; Very good when italy needed him most. Obviously not 100% but his best World Cup by far
Ronaldo; His usual game. Loads of effort and tricks but little end product. Has dived way less than expected. Did nothing wring for the Rooney sending off
Henry; Poor tournament again. Diving was laughable after his post CL final claims. Took his goal v Brazil very very well

[NeilMcD]

Sorry Dodge I said that Henry was a cheat, which he has turned out to be and he is not the only one but he certainly is one. There are many more. Ronaldo and Totti are both cheats also. I dont think anybody on these forums could dispute that all 3 have cheated so therefore they are all cheats. I agreee that there are many more cheats but I cant mention every cheat in the game it does not mean I dont recognise that there are many many more.


Last night Ronaldos performance and by that I meant his diving was a joke. He dived about 5 or 6 times and this was shown by RTE and ITV and by BBC. He is not the worst but he is one of the worst and this sort of carry on and has been for a good while now at Man Utd.


Henry is a great player and in my view up until a few weeks ago was a top class professional who seemed to behave in a top class manner week in week out. However after the Champions League final he went down in mine and many other peoples estimations and he has continued this on throughout the World Cup.


As I have said before I think Totti is top class for Roma but his performances for Italy and several tournaments have been a joke both in behaviour and in performance. I think he is self centered which is one of the worst attributes a player can have. When you have guys like Keane, Cannavaro, Gattuso and Zidane out there to see such a coward of a player been hailed by so called experts. The other day a paper actually gave Totti the same rating as Cannavaro for the game against Germany, 7.


I have no problem people disagreeing with me. It was this forum is about, debates on football issues. But what is madness is everytime a player is criticised that someone criticises the poster for not mentioning some other player. It is impossible to mention every player that has behaved or played badly in this tournament we can only mention the ones that come to our attention or that we have noticed more than others or whatever.

[Stuttgart88]

Nobody on here could list every single player that has ever dived.I dived once when I was 11. It was during the Argentina World Cup. Everyone was doing it then. I won a free but felt sorry for the guy who was penalised. I'll never do it again Neil.

[Plastic Paddy]

I dived once when I was 11. It was during the Argentina World Cup. Everyone was doing it then. I won a free

Cheat. :eek: I just hope Stutts Jr. doesn't pick up these tricks from you. :p

:ball: PP

[Stuttgart88]

I just hope Stutts Jr. doesn't pick up these tricks from youSadly, I'm not in much of a position to pass on any skills that actually require use of a ball.

[Karlos]

I've witnessed almost every player who has taken a throw in at this world cup cheat too. Must have been hundreds of cheats exposed.

Probably not worthy of a thread of it's own given as I can't recolect having seen Henry take one yet. ;)

Thrown ins are supposed to be taken at the point where the ball leaves the field of play - marching anywhere between 5 and 15 yards further up the field is blatant cheating. Infact it's been the most blatant and consistant form of cheating over the last 20 years. :mad:

Maybe we should first settle for ridding the game of that disgusting act that people for some reason never feel the need to comment on. :rolleyes:

[speedking]

Last night's tackle was a foul, Henry left his leg there to make sure, but don't they all. It's up to the refs to do something about it, 8 dives from the Portugese last night, not one free, but not one yellow.
What you're saying is that there was contact, and Henry exaggerated it, but it is still a penalty. A French player had his hand on Ronaldo's back in the penalty area in the first half, Ronaldo went down like a ton of bricks, should that be a penalty?

Both of them were dives IMO.

[osarusan]

Sorry Dodge I said that Henry was a cheat, which he has turned out to be and he is not the only one but he certainly is one. There are many more. Ronaldo and Totti are both cheats also. I dont think anybody on these forums could dispute that all 3 have cheated so therefore they are all cheats. .


To be fair, quite a lot of people have disagreed / disputed with you about Totti on the 'Totti' thread.

[Clifford]

What you're saying is that there was contact, and Henry exaggerated it, but it is still a penalty. A French player had his hand on Ronaldo's back in the penalty area in the first half, Ronaldo went down like a ton of bricks, should that be a penalty?

Both of them were dives IMO.

So be it, it's all about opinions eh?

[NeilMcD]

To be fair, quite a lot of people have disagreed / disputed with you about Totti on the 'Totti' thread.

They disagreed that Totti was not a cheat for his performance in the German game, I doubt that anybody was dispute that he has cheated before. The guy has a bad disciplinary record at international level, both spitting and diving at the hightest level.

[Junior]

They disagreed that Totti was not a cheat for his performance in the German game, I doubt that anybody was dispute that he has cheated before. The guy has a bad disciplinary record at international level, both spitting and diving at the hightest level.
..........

[Junior]

They disagreed that Totti was not a cheat for his performance in the German game, I doubt that anybody was dispute that he has cheated before. The guy has a bad disciplinary record at international level, both spitting and diving at the hightest level.

Agree with that, but not a cheat to his nations & team mates! I hope you didn't have smug grin on your face last night, as he was pants and rightly substituted.:D :D

[NeilMcD]

Did not have a grin but as Giles said he should give his medal to Cannavarro as Cannavarro deserves 2 and Totti does not deserve to be in the same dressing room as him. Once again he was rubbish on the big stage for Italy.

[Junior]

Did not have a grin but as Giles said he should give his medal to Cannavarro as Cannavarro deserves 2 and Totti does not deserve to be in the same dressing room as him. Once again he was rubbish on the big stage for Italy.

Ok, not going over that one again. However, IMO Cannavarro wasn't all that last night, made a few mistakes that could have been costly.

Over the course of the tournament though, he was immense and would probably get my Golden Ball IMO.


Not literally obviously:D

[osarusan]

They disagreed that Totti was not a cheat for his performance in the German game, I doubt that anybody was dispute that he has cheated before. The guy has a bad disciplinary record at international level, both spitting and diving at the hightest level.

Neil, this is a post of yours from the Totti thread.


[/QUOTE] Also I did not call him a cheat for having a particular style of play, and to say that is an ignorant remark in my view. I said he was a cheat because he was not selflessing dontating himself to the Italian cause. I have seen him play for Roma and I have seen him play for Italy. Its like 2 different things. His bevaviour in 2004 was a joke as was his performances in 2002. [/QUOTE]

I dont think that these posts identify the same kind of "cheating".

[NeilMcD]

I never said they were.

My point is that nobody could dispute that Totti is a cheat in the conventional sense i.e. dives spits gets send off that sort of thing.


However it is open to debate whether his performances for Italy are a form of cheating against his team mates and country and fans etc. I am of the view that he does cheat his own team mates but there are people out there and many of them posted on the thread that I started that they disagreed with me.


I hope that clears it up for you.