LOI In Europe 2025

[yurt]

This thread has a tough act to follow after the LOI's best ever season in Europe last time out. Hard to see us getting anywhere near as much joy this year but hopefully we won't be lamenting the league going too far backwards if we don't have any representation in the league phase.

We're 12 weeks away from the draws for the first rounds of European competition and Bert has updated his website for next seasons projected seedings.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedcl2025.html (https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedcl2025.html)

Shels being unseeded is a minefield but there are a chunk of winnable ties in there already. I'm sure the Shels fans will be monitoring the leagues around Europe hoping some non-traditional champions come through in places like Hungary, Bulgaria and Azerbaijan and that the usual champions come through in Gibraltar and Andorra.

Rovers will be seeded all the way through qualifying but it won't be much use to them after the first 2 rounds in the ECL.

Pat's will likely only be seeded in the first round, but a run in Europe could be big for Pat's if they are hoping to go down the champions route in 2026. If they could get to the playoff round once again it gives them at least a chance of being seeded in the CL next year.

Drogs unseeded too but will most likely be favourites for their round 1 tie given the amount of part time and out of season teams in the draw.

[Acornvilla]

This thread has a tough act to follow after the LOI's best ever season in Europe last time out. Hard to see us getting anywhere near as much joy this year but hopefully we won't be lamenting the league going too far backwards if we don't have any representation in the league phase.

We're 12 weeks away from the draws for the first rounds of European competition and Bert has updated his website for next seasons projected seedings.

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedcl2025.html (https://kassiesa.net/uefa/seedcl2025.html)

Shels being unseeded is a minefield but there are a chunk of winnable ties in there already. I'm sure the Shels fans will be monitoring the leagues around Europe hoping some non-traditional champions come through in places like Hungary, Bulgaria and Azerbaijan and that the usual champions come through in Gibraltar and Andorra.

Rovers will be seeded all the way through qualifying but it won't be much use to them after the first 2 rounds in the ECL.

Pat's will likely only be seeded in the first round, but a run in Europe could be big for Pat's if they are hoping to go down the champions route in 2026. If they could get to the playoff round once again it gives them at least a chance of being seeded in the CL next year.

Drogs unseeded too but will most likely be favourites for their round 1 tie given the amount of part time and out of season teams in the draw.
Drogs go in at round 2 with a lower coef than Pat's so will surely be unseeded?

If I had to have guessed I'd have thought Pat's would just about squeeze in to being seeded for rnd 2 themselves, won't be a ton in it either way I'd imagine given how many small clubs will get through a round.

[yurt]

Complete list of seeded teams that Shels can face in round 1:

Ludogorets Razgrad
FCSB
Olimpija Ljubljana
Malmö FF
Žalgiris
RFS
KuPS
Lincoln Red Imps
The New Saints
Drita
Breiðablik
Linfield
Budućnost Podgorica
Winners of the 2024–25 Premier League of Bosnia and Herzegovina

TNS or Linfield would be the ideal draw. Are the unofficial geographical groupings a thing in the UCL? Or just the conference league where's there's far more teams?

[sbgawa]

Not saying im not glad we are seeded but there are landmines all over the place and aftwer round 3 i dont think we will be seeded and will be playing the likes of Newcastle, Lyon 6th 8th and 5th place finishers from Italy Spain and Germany as well as the losers from the 3rd round of the EL.

[ger121]

Not saying im not glad we are seeded but there are landmines all over the place and aftwer round 3 i dont think we will be seeded and will be playing the likes of Newcastle, Lyon 6th 8th and 5th place finishers from Italy Spain and Germany as well as the losers from the 3rd round of the EL.

I’m pretty sure you are forecasted to be seeded all the way up to and including the PO Round.

[Nesta99]

That was my understanding too and was thinking good damn job considering the sides that will be in the various rounds of UCL. No champions pathway will make it tough especially if there is the traditional slow start by Rovers seeded or not. From a few things Ive heard said Shels badly need to win that 1st round tie or finances come in to play end of this or next season - everyone needs a good run in Europe but this sounds a little more than keeping the wolves from the door.

[Buckett]

From a few things Ive heard said Shels badly need to win that 1st round tie or finances come in to play end of this or next season - everyone needs a good run in Europe but this sounds a little more than keeping the wolves from the door.


https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/shelbourne-hail-most-significant-investment-in-their-academys-history/a100859369.html

[Nesta99]

Yes and Dundalk have had 60 years or something left on the Oriel lease. 'investment' in an academy doesnt necessarily mean day to day finances are covered at sustainable levels. Unless one of the academy kids get sold on for a proper fee and/or the 1st team can be filled with academy players that still need to be paid at a rate agents will set. So from a 1st team perspective, owners looking more at youth development doesnt necessarily mean no trouble at senior levels, in the short term anyway. But hey maybe a win or 2 in July will keep all things good. If not then owners willingness to sontinue to subsidise (possibly a midtable side) will be tested.

[Buckett]

Yes and Dundalk have had 60 years or something left on the Oriel lease. 'investment' in an academy doesnt necessarily mean day to day finances are covered at sustainable levels. Unless one of the academy kids get sold on for a proper fee and/or the 1st team can be filled with academy players that still need to be paid at a rate agents will set. So from a 1st team perspective, owners looking more at youth development doesnt necessarily mean no trouble at senior levels, in the short term anyway. But hey maybe a win or 2 in July will keep all things good. If not then owners willingness to sontinue to subsidise (possibly a midtable side) will be tested.

If their current financial circumstances are "more than keeping the wolves from the door", would the shareholders be making a significant investment in training facilities?

[LTFC]

27 underage teams? Is that right?

[Buckett]

27 underage teams? Is that right?

9 girls teams and 18 boys teams, 450 players.

https://shelbournefc.ie/teams/academy/

[LTFC]

9 girls teams and 18 boys teams, 450 players.

https://shelbournefc.ie/teams/academy/

7 teams in National League so 20 in other leagues.
Whats not to love about that, but club winning league, getting its best ever attendances and still losing 1m a year. Expenditure at 150% of income. Fkit , but I think I've seen this movie too many times.

[Nesta99]

If their current financial circumstances are "more than keeping the wolves from the door", would the shareholders be making a significant investment in training facilities?

It wouldnt be unusual for a club, or ther investors to prioritise one area of a club over another, ask a Bohs fan. Anyways it was a Shels person, a classic ITK, that said that the growing cost of the 1st team is a concern to some money men and that a win in CL QR1 is important or spending will be capped or cut. A couple of wins and the costs will be absorbed if there is another qualification for Europe and preferably CL so there is a limit to the financial pain. Investment in an academy and training facilities is prudent spending and hoefully promtes sustainability so of course finances could be easier to squeeze on a fixed asset but is initially costly and maybe both academy growth/training facility and 1st team costs cant always be done side by side unless there is a sugar daddy (rather than investor) or European money so one or other gets the nod in the near term. Wolves from the door may have implied risk to clubs future which isnt what I meant, more 1st team calibre, not club developed players, marquee type signings etc. But taking what was said at face value its a pivitol season for Shels and how competative they may be next season is dependant on the luck of the draw this season or finding form in a ridiculously congested top 4. Sounded more sensible than doom merchant to me. If a membership or fan shareholders try to invest heavily in a large academy, training facilities and are losing significant money on the 1st team then they need to have a chat to Sligo for the right reasons or Cork for the opposite. Tbh its really a stating the obvious rather than inside info or rumour but this is LoI and magic money trees are as real as the tooth fairy in some minds especially some Dundalk fans.

[ccity]

I see in the CO re-balancing that the Finnish(34) team have been promoted to EL-Q1 (from CO-Q2), but the other spot has been filled by promoting the Danish cup winner from EL-Q1 to EL-Q2, meaning that Drogheda United just missed out.
I'd expected Drogheda & Ilves Tampere to both be promoted.

[Buckett]

What's CO?

What position in the rankings would the LOI have to reach for the league runner-up to qualify for Europa League?

[Nesta99]

I presume Conference.

[ccity]

What's CO?

What position in the rankings would the LOI have to reach for the league runner-up to qualify for Europa League?

Cup winners have priority over league runner up.
Country in 33rd location gets Europa League spot, so this season's cup winners will get this spot in 2026/27.
In the event of a league & cup double, the team finishing 2nd gets this spot.

[Buckett]

Cup winners have priority over league runner up.
Country in 33rd location gets Europa League spot, so this season's cup winners will get this spot in 2026/27.
In the event of a league & cup double, the team finishing 2nd gets this spot.

Thanks ccity.

I knew the Cup winners would get Europa League. I probably should have phrased my question better. At what position in the co-efficient rankings would we have to get to so that our League runner-up gets a place in the EL along with our Cup winner?

[Nesta99]

I see this morning that Drogs participation in Europe is no longer a formaility due to Silkeborg also qualifying yesterday meaning Trivela may have to choose which of their clubs compete in the conference. If an arrangement cant be agreed with UEFA for some exemption then Truvela would surely opt for the club that would bring the greatest return, progress further - is that Silkeborg or Drogheda then?

[Another Bohemia]

I see this morning that Drogs participation in Europe is no longer a formaility due to Silkeborg also qualifying yesterday meaning Trivela may have to choose which of their clubs compete in the conference. If an arrangement cant be agreed with UEFA for some exemption then Truvela would surely opt for the club that would bring the greatest return, progress further - is that Silkeborg or Drogheda then?

I don't think trivela get to choose I think uefa decides based on the competition and countries coefficient. I don't see it being an issue though. Red bull and City Group (Man City & Girona) have both had teams in the same competition before so unless UEFA are going to start upsetting the billionaire apple cart (highly unlikely) there will probably be some trivial changes to Drogheda or Silkeborgs board and structures and that will be that

[sidewayspasser]

Have UEFA ever thrown a team out of a competition due to the multi club ownership rules? I don't recall any.

[Another Bohemia]

Have UEFA ever thrown a team out of a competition due to the multi club ownership rules? I don't recall any.

Pretty sure Leipzig and Salzburg have played each other in the group stages of the Europa league so I'd be very surprised if any club has been thrown out because of multi club ownership.

[2 Year Contract]

Both Club Leon and Pachuca qualified for the Club World Cup this summer but Club Leon were thrown out of it by FIFA as the 2 clubs share the same owners. The owners brought it to CAS but the appeal was rejected by CAS and the decision was upheld.

Obviously that’s a FIFA competition as opposed to a UEFA one but it’s a recent example of a similar issue

[Nesta99]

UEFA will probably bend the rules until they can change them as this is becoming a growing issue, as AB rightly suggests UEFA will hardly annoy the money by enforcing the rules. If they do it will be for relatively small clubs and owners they can push around but precedence is set and CAS would probably rule in favour on appeal. If there were regular loans, or closer practical ties between Drogs and Silkeborg rather than Walsall it could be a harder sell. Interesting case regardless and it will show UEFAs real thinking and hence the multiclub will either grow in numbers or a return to the old feeder club model.

[EalingGreen]

In anticipation of Notts Forest qualifying for the CL alongside Olympiakos, whom he also owned, Evangelos Marinakis divested himself of his shares in Forest a few weeks back. He did so by means of transferring them instead to a blind trust in which he had no controlling* interest.

Forest then failed to make the CL and had to make do with the Conference instead... ;)



* - No siree, no interest, none at all, in a trust which is blinder than a very blind thing down a coalmine.

[refjohn]

Derry Journal reporting no other Irish club applied for European license so if Drogs kicked out then only 3 Irish teams in Europe is season.

[2 Year Contract]

Derry Journal reporting no other Irish club applied for European license so if Drogs kicked out then only 3 Irish teams in Europe is season.

Wow! That is incredibly short sighted of Derry considering this has been a potential issue for months. Regardless of whether Drogheda get in or not I wouldn’t be happy with the powers that be at the club if I was a Derry fan. Can only imagine the ****storm if Drogs do miss out and Derry do too

[dundalkfc10]

In anticipation of Notts Forest qualifying for the CL alongside Olympiakos, whom he also owned, Evangelos Marinakis divested himself of his shares in Forest a few weeks back. He did so by means of transferring them instead to a blind trust in which he had no controlling* interest.

Forest then failed to make the CL and had to make do with the Conference instead... ;)



* - No siree, no interest, none at all, in a trust which is blinder than a very blind thing down a coalmine.

This has happened before with other clubs too. The owners had to sell some of the club (or transfering ownership) and become minority owners in one of the clubs to allow both play in same tournament

I know a few Drogheda fans and would personally be disappointed for them, for the club in general all I could do is laugh

[ccity]

Thanks ccity.

I knew the Cup winners would get Europa League. I probably should have phrased my question better. At what position in the co-efficient rankings would we have to get to so that our League runner-up gets a place in the EL along with our Cup winner?

Very few countries get representation at EL - it consists of (i) cup winners or their replacements, (ii) One other team from each of the top 12 leagues, (iii) teams that drop down from the Champions League Qualifiers & (iv) Conference league winners of previous season {not always used - next season Chelsea won't take this slot}.

[2 Year Contract]

Just noticed that Crystal Palace/Lyon/Brondby who have owners in common and all qualified to play in Europe next season, seem to have run into a similar problem for now

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-14771449/Crystal-Palace-desperate-bid-avoid-KICKED-European-football-UEFA-emergency-summit-major-rivals-replace-them.html

[Nesta99]

Probably saves any issues for smaller clubs/leagues. UEFA wont stand up to the clout of EPL, and it'd be ridiculous to cherry pick the rules for some clubs, well since the days of Delaney being foiled.

[yurt]

I'm pretty interested to see how all this plays out with the multiclub ownership.
What will be the reasons given for how the RBs and City Groups are fine but the Trivelas aren't.

Is it just simply that Trivela didn't bother to do any of the superficial changes to board members or create the shadow entities they needed to bluff through the farcical rules in place?

Would be a complete disaster for Drogs if they didn't get any European money and if the LOI only had 3 clubs competing this season.

From a co-efficient pov, it would mean that we divide our total score by 3 rather than 4, right? Tiny silver lining would be that were much more likely to secure Europa League football for our cup winners in the medium term if we only had 3 clubs in Europe this year.

[redobit]

If the teams were in different European competitions then it would seem straightforward but with the 3 competitions so connected now it definitely is a issue.
This will have to come to a head sooner or later.

[sessylU]

I'm pretty interested to see how all this plays out with the multiclub ownership.
What will be the reasons given for how the RBs and City Groups are fine but the Trivelas aren't.

Is it just simply that Trivela didn't bother to do any of the superficial changes to board members or create the shadow entities they needed to bluff through the farcical rules in place?

I can imagine that City Group and RB group will have anticipated this, and will have had multiple European qualification as an aim, rather than an afterthought, so they'll have done the structural work beforehand and made sure that fig leaves are in place etc. They also know that they have probably have enough clout to weather any issues.

Not sure if Trivela would have anticipated being in a similar position.

Still, though, I have no idea how fudgable any of this is. Could be an illuminating test case, how harshly will UEFA deal with this compared to bigger clubs, how toothy are the rules in reality? I'm reminded of how Man City haven't really been hampered by their 130-odd "misunderstandings."

[EalingGreen]

Very few countries get representation at EL - it consists of (i) cup winners or their replacements, (ii) One other team from each of the top 12 leagues, (iii) teams that drop down from the Champions League Qualifiers & (iv) Conference league winners of previous season {not always used - next season Chelsea won't take this slot}.Your point (iii) - teams dropping from CL to EL - no longer applies since UEFA revamped the CL format for 2024/25.

Otherwise we might not have seen Man U and Spurs make it all the way to the EL Final.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Your point (iii) - teams dropping from CL to EL - no longer applies since UEFA revamped the CL format for 2024/25.

Otherwise we might not have seen Man U and Spurs make it all the way to the EL Final.

You missed the bit where he said qualifiers and not groups

[sbgawa]

I cant believe none of the premier teams applied for a UEFA licence (other than the 4 who qualified) , i remember multiple clubs got UEFA licences in years past including some first division clubs (Longford were one) i remember thinking at the time "what are them eejits up to" , well if they had applied this year they could be playing in Europe

[EatYerGreens]

I cant believe none of the premier teams applied for a UEFA licence (other than the 4 who qualified) , i remember multiple clubs got UEFA licences in years past including some first division clubs (Longford were one) i remember thinking at the time "what are them eejits up to" , well if they had applied this year they could be playing in Europe

Was that not just the LOI licensing process though - which said if your ground was up to PD or UEFA standard? Is the actual European licensing process not different - whereby you have to nominate the ground you'll actually use in Europe? So for example, Tallaght could be licensed as a Category 3 stadium, but Rovers then go and nominate Lansdowne instead for their actual games in Europe.

[outspoken]

Was that not just the LOI licensing process though - which said if your ground was up to PD or UEFA standard? Is the actual European licensing process not different - whereby you have to nominate the ground you'll actually use in Europe? So for example, Tallaght could be licensed as a Category 3 stadium, but Rovers then go and nominate Lansdowne instead for their actual games in Europe.

No, Sgbawa is correct, we had a Euro license a few years ago.

[EatYerGreens]

No, Sgbawa is correct, we had a Euro license a few years ago.

But how did you apply for it ? To UEFA - and if so, why?

[MoydowMonty]

https://www.leagueofireland.ie/news/uefa-club-competition-licences-awarded-2025/

Athlone are the only other club who applied for a license.

Now I know that's obviously for the women's team who are in the women's champions league.

But is there a chance that could cover the club as a whole and as such, include the men's team?

There's hardly a chance that Athlone have a shout of taking Drogheda's position in the conference instead?

[sbgawa]

I dont know factually but i would have thought a club applied for a licence rather than a mans or womans team within the club
That would be gas alright if Athlone were suddenly propelled into the second round of the Europa League

Can t see it somehow

[MoydowMonty]

UCD being launched in in 2015 makes this seem not so outrageous. I don't know the first ting about the licensing process either but to me it makes sense that the club gets a licence rather than just a mens or women's team. If I were athlone I'd be peeking my ears up at this.

[pineapple stu]

We had a good month's more notice in fairness. Plus there was a very good chance we were going to qualify even as far back as January. Not quite the same as this case.

[outspoken]

But how did you apply for it ? To UEFA - and if so, why?

IIRC it happened around a time when we were awarded some very high profile underage internationals at Bishopsgate

[oriel]

This has happened before with other clubs too. The owners had to sell some of the club (or transfering ownership) and become minority owners in one of the clubs to allow both play in same tournament

I know a few Drogheda fans and would personally be disappointed for them, for the club in general all I could do is laugh


Have to say agree with this, worked with a few and know a few others, it would be a super euro trip missed for the fans and they don't come around too often for smaller clubs like Drogs, so would be huge missed opportunity.

For the club > Well that's another thing, maybe karma for the easiest ever route to a cup final, 2 FD clubs, 1 NL and 1 PD later to be relegated, all bar 1 at home too, that said they did deserve to win the final, though for some reason I think they will get this resolved, or maybe not who knows, prob get a decision next week on this.

[sbgawa]

The draw is only 9 days away id be worried tbh as the likes of the share transfers my Nottingham forest were done pretty to qualifying. Hopefully a solution is coming but it better come quick

[pineapple stu]

Crystal Palace facing the same problem so looks like UEFA are unlikely to bury it for small clubs.

Be a huge pity for Drogheda to miss out but the owners have to have known about this for months. So either they don't care, they're calling UEFA's bluff, or they're fools

[Nesta99]

Id say there could be some sort of blanket waiver this season and then straighten out the rules for 2026 European comps, maybe even the token transfer of ownership to shell companies. How did the RB sides arrange things? Nobody would convince me that there of any sufficient seperation there bar majority stake sale. It is majority ownership thats the issue? Sell and buy back clauses, a few sports admin people are going to make a lot of money no matter how things pan out.

[sbgawa]

There is a whole section in the UEFA rules about this and they (UEFA) wrote to all clubs about this at least a year ago,
The fact that the clubs invlved didnt plan for it or more likely in Drogs and PAlaces case not think they would qualify for Europe is hardly a reason to bend the rules.
As Keano would put it ...."fail to prepare, prepare to fail" .
I still hope Drogs dont lose out i enjoy watching all the IRish clubs in Europe but if UEFA bend the rules here they may as well forget about the whole thing.
In the old days i dont htink it would have mattered much with straight knock outs but with the league tables now it would be possible to do each other a favour if drawn togeher