EL Investigation Committee Report

[Buile Shuibhne]

http://forum.shelbournefc.ie/chat/viewtopic.php?t=4249

[OneRedArmy]

So its the fans fault basically?

And no more smoke and flares?

And Ollie's innocent?

Whats needed is tough action and that "report" (in the loosest term) is just wishy-washy 'we're all in this together so everybody pull up your socks and run along now' clap-trap.

[pete]

Bohs v Shels.

I feel can comment on this match as attended as neutral - well as neutral as is possible anyway ;)


The committee accept the evidence of Pat Fenlon, Manager of Shelbourne, that Bohemians supporters verbally abused him on the evening of the match. The Committee find that the security was insufficient on the night and that more positive steps could have been taken to avoid the type of confrontation such as that occurred.

Hilarious! Fenlon was banned from that match so if he'd obeyed the ban couldn't have been "abused" :rolleyes:

Of course no comment whatsoever on Fenlon breaking the ban - walking across the pitch after the match definitely occured!

I agree that stewarding was insufficient for flares issue & does set a precedent. I disagree that stewarding lead to any danger for anyone.


3) Shelbourne FC –v- Shamrock Rovers Match 17th June 2005

1. The Committee find that the two banners displayed on the night were
undoubtedly offensive. One banner was removed within 10 minutes but a second offensive banner was allowed remain in place throughout the match. The Committee find this unacceptable and recommend that such offensive banner should be removed in the future. The Committee also believe that these banners were pre planned and orchestrated and were designed to cause the maximum offence to Oliver Byrne and Shelbourne FC

What was on these banners? Unless the text on a banner is racist or similar then its stupid to suggest is offense. Just because a Manager/Player/Official doesn't like it then having stewards wading it to remove will cause more trouble. Was this a certain hooligan banner?

:rolleyes:

[Roverstillidie]

I dont necessarily agree. It calls Oily a direct liar which is always nice.

I actually think it doesnt really blame the fans at all. Match day coordinators and the cops get it in the neck. Shels come out of it worst, and from the sounds of it they want tolka rebuilt to keep fans away from teh technical area.

Re the Rovers Bohs game. Did we need an investigation to tell you what we told you all along:that after the game, the bohs fans refused to move, some rovers fans took the law into their own hands. At which point they promptly moved. The lack of cordination between event planner and gardai is code for the cops overruled the SRFC/BFC pre-agreed plans and made s hite of the whole thing.

[Roverstillidie]

What was on these banners? Unless the text on a banner is racist or similar then its stupid to suggest is offense. Just because a Manager/Player/Official doesn't like it then having stewards wading it to remove will cause more trouble. Was this a certain hooligan banner?



references to cheap cigarettes. and a thuggish ceo's.

offensive to 1 man only.

[Buile Shuibhne]

Shels come out of it worst, and from the sounds of it they want tolka rebuilt to keep fans away from teh technical area.



You're getting mixed up - its Bohs who have to make the changes - close their bar beside the dressing room for 1 hour before and after matches. They also have to install a tunnel to provide protection to players and technical staff. The report also disbelieves Bohs officials:

"Despite strenuous denials by Bohemian FC representatives that the protest was pre planned it is clear that a level of tolerance existed to this protest. The Committee find several of the assertions by Bohemian FC representatives surprising and contradictory. "

[Vitruvian Man]

They want Dalymount rebuilt, not Tolka.

Pete does make an important point. If Nutsy was verbally abused while in the technical area, what was he doing there, he was banned.

[OneRedArmy]

It calls Oily a direct liar which is always nice.

Is this the quote you're referring to?


The Committee noted Oliver Byrnes evidence that allegations were made that he attended a management meeting of the League prior to the match and had requested the League at this meeting to take action against Shamrock Rovers in relation to the clubs examinership. League Representatives are in a position to refute any allegation that Mr. Oliver Byrne was at this management meeting and the Committee have noted this.

I read this as Ollie being vindicated
:confused:

[MariborKev]

"It is evident to the Committee that the pre match hysteria contributed significantly to the problems at the match. Comments and allegations made by both clubs to the media about the alleged conduct of each other’s supporters surrounding the Setanta Cup Final undoubtedly resulted in a highly charged atmosphere leading up to the match. The Committee are of the view that comments and accusations expressed by Club Officials to the media are a significant contributory factor to many of the incidents which have occurred at matches and which the Committee had been asked to investigate."


I would assume that this refers to Ollie very public allegations that Rovers fans started the trouble prior to the Setanta and therefore was the quote the Rovers fans were referring to

[OneRedArmy]

"It is evident to the Committee that the pre match hysteria contributed significantly to the problems at the match. Comments and allegations made by both clubs to the media about the alleged conduct of each other’s supporters surrounding the Setanta Cup Final undoubtedly resulted in a highly charged atmosphere leading up to the match. The Committee are of the view that comments and accusations expressed by Club Officials to the media are a significant contributory factor to many of the incidents which have occurred at matches and which the Committee had been asked to investigate."


I would assume that this refers to Ollie very public allegations that Rovers fans started the trouble prior to the Setanta and therefore was the quote the Rovers fans were referring to
That says nothing about him being a liar, only a sh*stirrer. Two different qualities in a person :D

[bohs til i die]

Shels refused tos end anyone to the Event meeting, not for the first time, so any issues arising from stewarding numbers can be directly attributed to a lack of input from them.

No Bohs fan was in the technical area, all Bohs fans were in front of block A, a spectator area. No mention of several Shels players and officials trying to gain entry to thsi area to confront Bohs fans. Its a pile of crap.

The flares thing shouldnt have happened pitch side, but everything else is ******. What happens in EL grounds is tame. Nobody gets hurt and if Bohs fans abusing Fenlon who shouldnt be near the dressingroom gets Bohs into trouble, why ahsnt Fenlon's ban been re-issued so he can actually serve it?

[Réiteoir]

How nice it is that the person who posted the report sees fit to highlight in bold just the passages that detail the supposed Bohemians wrongdoings - but nothing else.

But then I suppose the report came in from the League like that, eh?

:rolleyes:

How about actually obeying any ban that your coaching staff incur - as pete said earlier:


Fenlon was banned from that match so if he'd obeyed the ban couldn't have been "abused"

And I'd never thought I'd hear the day when the League banned Free-Speech - may as well move the whole thing to North Korea or China and be done with it

http://davensjournal.com/images/Kettlitis.gif

[Réiteoir]

One other thing that's occurred to me:

At Dalymount - aren't the Technical Areas over the other side of the pitch from the bars - that's where the dugouts certainly are.

Unless we've opened another three bars I've never heard of

[MariborKev]

I would assume the areas on the way to and from the dressing rooms

[bohs til i die]

I would assume the areas on the way to and from the dressing rooms

they were cordoned off with barrers, which were re-positioned by Ddave Rogers and Ollie Byrne when they tried to get into the area in front of block A to have a go at Bohs fans.

[Vitruvian Man]

BTID

Large sections of this report could have been written by Mr Cassidy himself and are almost verbatum to what I have seen on Shels posts around the net. The parts relevant to Rovers are also written almost entirely from their clubs point of view.

This tells me that the Bohs officials got massacred by their opposite counterparts even in areas where we should have had a good case. We have to look within to see how this happened. I'll send you an e-mail.

[Troy.McClure]

I hope Shels will close off their bar too, thats even closer to the "technical area" than the Bohz one is (and even then, isnt that one supposed to be for players and VIPs?) ;)

[superfrank]

Did anyone else notice it was all to do with Dublin teams??

[Réiteoir]

Did anyone else notice it was all to do with Dublin teams??

shhh - this only involves the big boys - run along now

[Roverstillidie]

so have i got the gist of it:

rovers - scott free
shels- despite the fact they tried to block the whole thing, essentially off the hook
bohs - hooligans and animals

nice!

[OneRedArmy]

Did anyone else notice it was all to do with Dublin teams??
I'm surprised you're not more annoyed that the disgraceful "shoe robbing and throwing around" incident at Dalyer didn't get a mention?! :D

[WeAreRovers]

so have i got the gist of it:

rovers - scott free
shels- despite the fact they tried to block the whole thing, essentially off the hook
bohs - hooligans and animals

nice!

That's it in a nutshell but I actually have a lot of sympathy for Bohs (a brand new emotion for me!) I think they were well stitched-up. Just imagine if our old regime had been in place, Rovers fans would have been hammered. At least we can now stick up for ourselves.

Basically though the upshot is that Ollie and Shels run the league. Very depressing but hardly surprising.

I just hope that Roddy has the balls for once in his life to actually follow through with his legal action against Ollie. He may have the eL in his pocket but we know from past experience that Ollie doesn't like going to court.

KOH

[wws]

You're getting mixed up - its Bohs who have to make the changes - close their bar beside the dressing room for 1 hour before and after matches. They also have to install a tunnel to provide protection to players and technical staff. The report also disbelieves Bohs officials:

"Despite strenuous denials by Bohemian FC representatives that the protest was pre planned it is clear that a level of tolerance existed to this protest. The Committee find several of the assertions by Bohemian FC representatives surprising and contradictory. "



shelbourne pre planned a flare display v shamrock rovers in the same ground - all over the tv - the brigoid dearg who pre plan these displays have been funded extensively by the shelbourne board (in fact they are the only fans group that are officially recognised and funded by their own club to the best of my knowledge - and this funding indicates a degree of collusion and pre planning in their activities which shels officials are very much part of)



if there is no fines dished out to shels for this (100 euro per flare as per the same fines for a recent fixture in that ground - i counted 4 at least) than the league hasnt a leg to stand on.....



*btw ive no desire to see clubs fined for flare displays but consistency in these matters is crucial to the disciplinary committees credibility

[BohDiddley]

It's a topsy-turvy world! :eek:

These people are standing logic on its head. How they can put out that report and hope to maintain any credibility is a mystery. Fenlon shouldn't even have been at that match. Something stinks.

[Buile Shuibhne]

Fines for Bohs & Rovers

http://forum.shelbournefc.ie/chat/viewtopic.php?t=4257

[bohsbitch]

We have been fined for insufficient steward numbers at an away game!!!!!

Rovers fined for insulting Ollie.

Shels - €0.

Does it make sense to you?? Who controls the league??? I wonder!

I honestly feel like I'm about to wake up from this nightmare.

[Vitruvian Man]

shelbourne pre planned a flare display v shamrock rovers in the same ground - all over the tv - the brigoid dearg who pre plan these displays have been funded extensively by the shelbourne board (in fact they are the only fans group that are officially recognised and funded by their own club to the best of my knowledge - and this funding indicates a degree of collusion and pre planning in their activities which shels officials are very much part of)


But because this happened at a Shamrock Rovers home game the El will probably see fit to fine the hoops over this.

I wonder should we have a whip around to fund Roddys legal action against Irelands No. 1 Football Hooligan.

[Roverstillidie]

We have been fined for insufficient steward numbers at an away game!!!!!

Rovers fined for insulting Ollie.

Shels - €0.

Does it make sense to you?? Who controls the league??? I wonder!

I honestly feel like I'm about to wake up from this nightmare.

agree 100%.

how the hell did this happen?

[bohsbitch]

If Bohs and Rovers do not release some sort of statement to the media ASAP we might as well give up.

If we're not going to fight this, the league, the FAI and Shels will continue to get away with murder. No-one else is going to stand up for us.

[EnDai]

What can they say? We'll be hit hard after the Ollie/Roddy investigation, as far as I can see. Thats the only reason we've not been fined there, because they are waiting till the court trial thingy is over.

[Gareth]

Just on the point of Bohs Technical area, I am assuming its because of the following but I could be wrong.

If you go in the Officials/Players/Press Entrance, you are confronted with Dressing rooms and a corridor were officials and players could/will be. Walking to the door on the left, you go straight into the bar. Is this door locked? It was open the last time I was there and maybe people use it to go outside? Anyways I am assuming that is the problem with the Technical area. Technical areas are not just on the pitch to the man who said did Bohs build a new bar on the other side.

The highest awarded fines just keep getting bigger.

[bohsbitch]

Why were Bohs fans fined for a flare display and shels fans weren't? Both matches were part of the investigation.

What is the breakdown of the 17 sanctions received by officials?? No Bohs board member has received one!

How can you fine an away team for stewarding numbers at a match?

How can you fine a club for banners displayed by fans? Unless they are blatantly racist etc.

How can the committee accept the evidence of one person (Pat Fenlon) yet find evidence from a number of other people "Unsubstantiated"?

The list of problems with the report is endless.

[bohsbitch]

Just on the point of Bohs Technical area, I am assuming its because of the following but I could be wrong.

If you go in the Officials/Players/Press Entrance, you are confronted with Dressing rooms and a corridor were officials and players could/will be. Walking to the door on the left, you go straight into the bar. Is this door locked? It was open the last time I was there and maybe people use it to go outside? Anyways I am assuming that is the problem with the Technical area. Technical areas are not just on the pitch to the man who said did Bohs build a new bar on the other side.

The highest awarded fines just keep getting bigger.

That's the home dressing room which is not in question.

[Vitruvian Man]

It seems in the EL's warped world that actions or omissions that actually put spectators at risk, such as resfusing to attend security meetings with Gardai and opposition, or invading the pitch to attack other fans, are not as serious as actions which are "insulting" to another club.

Go figure.

[Roverstillidie]

What can they say? We'll be hit hard after the Ollie/Roddy investigation, as far as I can see. Thats the only reason we've not been fined there, because they are waiting till the court trial thingy is over.

shels wont be fined for oily v roddy, oily will. same difference ultimatley, but vital in terms of optics. If shels are due a fine pending legals there would have been a caveat to say so. And thats one of the 2 games shels were involved in. what about the other.

€1,000 for a pitch invasion, expensive but accepted in principle.
€1,000 for 'insulting banners'? Do me a favour. Whats next, fines for offensive songs and chants?

Bohs fined for lack of security at a shels home match?

This is very, very murky!!

[wws]

But because this happened at a Shamrock Rovers home game the El will probably see fit to fine the hoops over this..

I was hoping this would be brought up - the league set a precedent recently fining an AWAY team for flares - the match was also at Dalymount Park - Rovers were also the home team - The AWAY team Pats were fined for flares (two - even though only ONE flare was lit - I know this as irrefutable fact).

Now, Shels officially santioned and funded fans group lit minimum 4 flares DURING a game v rovers - also in dalymount - also in the shed end.
WILL THEY BE FINED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ABOVE??????

The current statement doesnt relate to this match - but it will be up for consideration at the next disciplinary committee meeting.


If the league fail to act on this than i can only conclude that the disciplinary committee has no credibility and/ or is being subject to undue influence from vested interests or is directed in its findings by perceived need to react to high profile incidents highlighted in the media rather than consistently following its own line.

Anyway as a fan im disgusted with the latest incidents - we've allowed the FAI suits dictate fan culture - the tail is wagging the dog - and fans of all clubs should break these regulations v OFFENSIVE flags (part and parcel of the Italian game for decades) at EVERY game.....anything else is letting the bastrds win.

I believe the writing on the flags in questions were statements of fact? can anyone confirm? if so the fans should sue the league and shelbourne/brigaid dearg football club

[Buile Shuibhne]

Bohs fined for lack of security at a shels home match?

This is very, very murky!!


The match in question is Bohemians Vs Shelbourne in Dalymount on 27th May - a Bohs home game.

[bohsbitch]

The Statement says it was "the Bohemians v Shamrock Rovers Premier Division fixture on May 27th last."

Now we're getting fined for fictional matches!

[Roverstillidie]

My mistake in that case, was quoting a bohs poster.

but it still appears shels got away while the other 2 clubs got hammered.

[Vitruvian Man]

The match in question is Bohemians Vs Shelbourne in Dalymount on 27th May - a Bohs home game.


maybe you can clarify what they Eircom League statement means Fintan - since Shels seem to be writing them anyway.

[WeAreRovers]

If Bohs and Rovers do not release some sort of statement to the media ASAP we might as well give up.

Spot on and we should do it together and any appeal should be a joint one too. If the two most bitter rivals in the league can co-operate (as the report admits) and Shels don't even turn up to security meetings then that speaks volumes about Shels contempt for the league and the other clubs.

KOH

[wws]

I'm surpised he gets the time....given the amount of ref and security reports they have to tamper with up there :D

[pete]

I think fines for flares are fine (no pun intended) as Bohs clearly made no effort to prevent or stop the fans display.€500 * 6 = €3000. Rules ban flares so i've no problem as long as ruling is consistent.

I cannot understand how a club can be fined for banners its fans displayed at an AWAY game??? Who decides whats offensive? Will clubs still be fined even if they remove the banners? That decision defies belief.

[Vitruvian Man]

I think fines for flares are fine (no pun intended) as Bohs clearly made no effort to prevent or stop the fans display.€500 * 6 = €3000. Rules ban flares so i've no problem as long as ruling is consistent.

I cannot understand how a club can be fined for banners its fans displayed at an AWAY game??? Who decides whats offensive? Will clubs still be fined even if they remove the banners? That decision defies belief.

I won't argue, the rules are the rules - that's fair enough.

But why no fine for Shelbournes flare display vrs Rovers.
4*500 = €2000

[bohsbitch]

I think fines for flares are fine (no pun intended) as Bohs clearly made no effort to prevent or stop the fans display.€500 * 6 = €3000. Rules ban flares so i've no problem as long as ruling is consistent.

I agree with this in principle but will only ever accept it when the fines are applied to everyone.

[wws]

I think fines for flares are fine (no pun intended) as Bohs clearly made no effort to prevent or stop the fans display.€500 * 6 = €3000. Rules ban flares so i've no problem as long as ruling is consistent.

I cannot understand how a club can be fined for banners its fans displayed at an AWAY game??? Who decides whats offensive? Will clubs still be fined even if they remove the banners? That decision defies belief.

100 euro per flare for pats (even though there was only one flare at the game)

shels have recently broke this rule - and done it on tv - I dont advocate fines for this but given that certain clubs are jumping on th emoral high horse it will be interesting if this is swept under the carpet


I dont know what rovers ultras put on there banners but if they dont make a stand of fighting this fine than we can all forget about it


fans flags and colour - and yes offesive banners are the lifeblood of the game, this committee have picke dthe wrong fight

I do not believe that stewards should "prevent" flares - such stupidity leads to injuries.

I don't advocate use of flares by the way, they are dangerous and passé tbh but pig headed stewarding of flares will lead to more trouble than sensible use of the flares

[bohsbitch]

Spot on and we should do it together and any appeal should be a joint one too. If the two most bitter rivals in the league can co-operate (as the report admits) and Shels don't even turn up to security meetings then that speaks volumes about Shels contempt for the league and the other clubs.

KOH

No-one can argue that the event Management of both Bohs and Rovers have come a long way. Both games we have played this year have been very successful and would have been even more so, had the recommendations of the clubs been accepted by the Gardai.

If we can work together so closely and successfully, there is no reason why every club in the league should have event management problems.

The two teams who, in my eyes, have made more positive changes to how they approach matches etc are the ones to suffer. Why bother??

[Roverstillidie]

exhibit a

http://www.srfcultras.net/season2005/shels/shels17.jpg

[harpskid]

On eL weekly on Monday night the camera panned to the Shels support where a handful of flares were lit - why no fines for these?

[wws]

exhibit a

http://www.srfcultras.net/season2005/shels/shels17.jpg


hahha

use of the term 'Oily' means this an illegal and nonsensical fine!

class clownism from the EL office


btw check out any all ireland final - the boggers go to great lengths destroying bedsheets to come up with slags of the opposition.....will the EL protect us from these "miscreants"


now that ive seen the flag above this fine is a farce!