View Full Version : EL Investigation Committee Report
On eL weekly on Monday night the camera panned to the Shels support where a handful of flares were lit - why no fines for these?
well a committee meeting re last w/e's matches wont be for a mnth or so - this is normal - my point in bringing it up was to make sure no-one forgets their civic duty! :D
higgins
14/09/2005, 1:53 PM
If we're not going to fight this, the league, the FAI and Shels will continue to get away with murder.
Yes its Ollie who pulls all the strings is it ??
Even the string where he banned himself for a month and fined himself 2K :eek: Or maybe it was the decision he made to ban the Shels manager for 4 games at a time in the year when we really need him!! Or to dish out the highest ever manager fine for a red card of 1K to him.....
Also Ollie publically claimed to have been at a league management meeting where Rovers were discussed. The management committee explicitly note that no such incident occurred. This is arguably the most offensive of all "allegations" mentioned since it brings the league management committee into disrepute, yet again Ollie gets off scot free.
Thats what the fight with Roddy was about wasnt it :confused:
You all took the word of Roddy before Ollie is my take. Facts were he never said what he was meant to have said and Roddy made it up.
Mybe at the next shels game you can bring along your 'Roddy is a liar' banner ?
higgins
14/09/2005, 1:57 PM
What meeting was that Northside Hoop ?
Réiteoir
14/09/2005, 2:01 PM
ah no - Shels won't get fined for the flares against Rovers.
It happened in Dalymount - so Bohs will be fined again.
Fined for incidents in games you're not even playing in! :D
What next - fines for looking at Fenlon in an offensive manner?
anto eile
14/09/2005, 2:06 PM
We have been fined for insufficient steward numbers at an away game!!!!!
Rovers fined for insulting Ollie.
Shels - €0.
Does it make sense to you?? Who controls the league??? I wonder!
I honestly feel like I'm about to wake up from this nightmare.
remember shels were fined something like a total of E5,200 over the last couple of weeks relating to fenlon (E1000), oily (E2000) ,bottle throwing by fans, and players discipline, (or shocking lack of more like)
higgins
14/09/2005, 2:07 PM
I think it had a lot to do with the fact it was a planned 'event' not just because there were flares.
Also nobody at the club told you to stop or no security on the night made much effort to stop it either.
Dont try to twist the issue into just one of flares being used. It was a little more serious then that.
higgins
14/09/2005, 2:12 PM
Well said Anto eile :rolleyes:
If only others had the capacity to remember things that happened over a week previous they could have saved themselves getting so worked up and blaming Shels for their problems.
Its just too easy to blame Ollie on everything,, :mad:
Northside Hoop....
What did your manager say on the radio about Ollie in the run up to the Shels Rovers game?
anto eile
14/09/2005, 2:15 PM
I was hoping this would be brought up - the league set a precedent recently fining an AWAY team for flares - the match was also at Dalymount Park - Rovers were also the home team - The AWAY team Pats were fined for flares (two - even though only ONE flare was lit - I know this as irrefutable fact).
Now, Shels officially santioned and funded fans group lit minimum 4 flares DURING a game v rovers - also in dalymount - also in the shed end.
WILL THEY BE FINED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ABOVE??????
The current statement doesnt relate to this match - but it will be up for consideration at the next disciplinary committee meeting.
If the league fail to act on this than i can only conclude that the disciplinary committee has no credibility and/ or is being subject to undue influence from vested interests or is directed in its findings by perceived need to react to high profile incidents highlighted in the media rather than consistently following its own line.
Anyway as a fan im disgusted with the latest incidents - we've allowed the FAI suits dictate fan culture - the tail is wagging the dog - and fans of all clubs should break these regulations v OFFENSIVE flags (part and parcel of the Italian game for decades) at EVERY game.....anything else is letting the bastrds win.
I believe the writing on the flags in questions were statements of fact? can anyone confirm? if so the fans should sue the league and shelbourne/brigaid dearg football club
"cheap cigs for sale, contact ollie"
and
"ollie-irelands number 1 hooligan"
number two is true,given his well-known track record, but you might actually have to take it to court first to prove, before protestign the committees decision to levy a fine for the banner.
italian clubs are regularly fined for banners afaik-though im not sure of the criteria,whether its general offensiveness or only racist ones are fined.
two suggestions:
1: simple rule should be:racist banners should be fined, offensive (wihout bad language) shouldnt be fined
2: a scale of fines for clubs who refuse to send delegates to security meetings. ie E500 for missing one meeting, E1000 for missing a second, E2000 for a third, then finally points deductions for continuous absence
bohsbitch
14/09/2005, 2:16 PM
You're absolutely right. Compare like with like and don't forget what you're own club is guilty of:
"shelbourne pre planned a flare display v shamrock rovers in the same ground - all over the tv"
higgins
14/09/2005, 2:19 PM
Are you saying what Bohs done that night was the same as what Shels done against Rovers last week?
Your nuts if you are......... :eek:
higgins
14/09/2005, 2:22 PM
No idea. He should have called him a geebag though.
Nice and childish ...
Well put :rolleyes:
Can you really continue a debate when thats a reply???
your first two words say more about you then the last two!! Your posting on a topic that you dont understand. :eek:
bohs til i die
14/09/2005, 2:23 PM
higgins, Shels's fans group get funded by shels fc. FACT.
The flare display.... makes no difference were it happened. A flare lit is a flare lit.
Shels players and officials acted like thugs both back in May, and last October in dalymount, yet nothing, We have this NLSA shower issuing statements yet they know none of the facts, yet evidence submitted by Frodo Fenlon, who was breaching a suspension gets not one bit of notice.
bohsbitch
14/09/2005, 2:27 PM
Are you saying what Bohs done that night was the same as what Shels done against Rovers last week?
Your nuts if you are......... :eek:
25th March 2005. You've played Rovers more than once this season.
An arranged flare display is an arranged flare display. It's either punishable or not.
As we have continually stated the rules have to be applied consistantly and evenly to all. Otherwise, what's the point?
Buile Shuibhne
14/09/2005, 2:30 PM
The Statement says it was "the Bohemians v Shamrock Rovers Premier Division fixture on May 27th last."
Now we're getting fined for fictional matches!
Revised statement issued:
Please note correction – match referred to in first paragraph is Bohemians v Shelbourne, not v Shamrock Rovers as was previously issued.
Media Statement – eircom League Board of Control decisions arising from the Investigations Committee Report
The eircom League Board of Control at its meeting of last night, September 13th after having considered the report of the Investigations Committee, unanimously decided that Bohemian FC be fined €3,000 for the protest carried out by Bohemians supporters; the use of flares by its supporters; the lack of sufficient stewarding and the failure of the club to respond in a responsible manner to these events and circumstances during the Bohemians v Shelbourne Premier Division fixture on May 27th last. It was also decided that Bohemian FC be warned as to its future conduct.
The eircom League Board of Control also unanimously decided that Shamrock Rovers FC be fined €1,000 for the encroachment of its supporters onto the playing area at the end of the Premier Division Shamrock Rovers v Bohemians fixture on June 3rd last. It further unanimously decided that Shamrock Rovers FC be fined €1,000 for the display of two offensive banners by its supporters and the encroachment of its supporters onto the playing area at the end of the Premier Division Shelbourne v Shamrock Rovers fixture on June 17th last. It was also decided that Shamrock Rovers FC be warned as to its future conduct.
The Board unanimously decided to adopt and implement in full the four key recommendations contained within the report.
ENDS
Andy Needham
Media & Public Relations Officer
eircom League
80 Merrion Square
exhibit a
http://www.srfcultras.net/season2005/shels/shels17.jpg
Who is Oily? Did the eL Committee link this to Ollie? ;)
I can't see how this is evidence & not aware of any rule banning banners at AWAY games.
:eek:
Drumcondra Red
14/09/2005, 2:34 PM
Why were Bohs fans fined for a flare display and shels fans weren't? Both matches were part of the investigation.
The bohs "display" was done on the playing surface, right beisde the opposition goalkeeper!!!
higgins, Shels's fans group get funded by shels fc. FACT.
Ollie Byrne contently has meetings with groups of fans who would be considered BD, he has repeated asked, and told fans not to use flares in the grounds any longer, also BD raise funds independently by bucket collections and by donations by BD themselves, FACT!
ThatGuy
14/09/2005, 2:37 PM
The bohs "display" was done on the playing serface, right beisde the opposition goalkeeper!!!
The Bohs display did not encroach onto the field of play FACT!
bohs til i die
14/09/2005, 2:40 PM
Ollie, Shels and Fenlon got fined over the drogheda thing because of the media coverage it received. No other reason. The league ahd to act. It wasnt Fenlons first time in trouble this season. He was suspended from the technical area for the Bohs v Shels game on the 27th of may, so how could he possibly have been abused in the technical area?
He is either a liar or he didnt serve his ban.
Drumcondra Red
14/09/2005, 2:40 PM
The Bohs display did not encroach onto the field of play FACT!
Thats why I said playing surface you prat, they were to the left of the goal as you look at it, at the Shed End, this is the playing surface. FACT!
Drumcondra Red
14/09/2005, 2:42 PM
Ollie, Shels and Fenlon got fined over the drogheda thing because of the media coverage it received. No other reason. The league ahd to act. It wasnt Fenlons first time in trouble this season. He was suspended from the technical area for the Bohs v Shels game on the 27th of may, so how could he possibly have been abused in the technical area?
He is either a liar or he didnt serve his ban.
For the duration of the game, and I'm sorry but you're starting to sound obsessed again btid...
higgins
14/09/2005, 2:42 PM
the use of flares by its supporters; the lack of sufficient stewarding and the failure of the club to respond in a responsible manner to these events and circumstances during the Bohemians v Shelbourne Premier Division fixture on May 27th last.
You did not get the fine for the use of flares alone,,
Why you are still trying to compare this woth other events is annoying me. Accept what was done on the night was over stepping the mark. The fine that was issued may be harsh but the event was not the ordinary show of flares. Going onto the playing surface with a flare is a serious matter (I'll count the area around the gaol as the playing surface :rolleyes: )
And the board of Shelbourne do not fund flares for displays against opposition players and fans. Not saying Bohs did either but dont come along with your funded by the board rubbish to deflect attention from your own problems.
Jerry The Saint
14/09/2005, 2:44 PM
ah no - Shels won't get fined for the flares against Rovers.
It happened in Dalymount - so Bohs will be fined again.
Fined for incidents in games you're not even playing in! :D
What next - fines for looking at Fenlon in an offensive manner?
Fines for failing to take a good look at oneself :confused:
So the banner implied that somebody called "Oily" was a hooligan, and they automatically assumed that this was "pre planned and orchestrated to cause the maximum offence to Oliver Byrne" :eek: The investigation committee seem shocked that the banner was made ON PURPOSE!!!
Can the BD help us out here please? Next game put up some unbelievably crude and offensive banner about Des Casey's mother and wait and see what happens. In the (HIGHLY unlikely) event that there's a fine, I'm sure every other club will be happy to see that there's no Shels bias and chip in. ;)
Seriously though, I think this should be the catalyst for all supporters groups to make an effort to display offensive banners. If there's any lawyers reading this it might be a good idea to advise on the best way to phrase any insulting comments so that there can't be any legal problems...
Réiteoir
14/09/2005, 2:45 PM
The bohs "display" was done on the playing surface, right beisde the opposition goalkeeper!!!
and next to a FIFA Listed Assistant Referee - who quite casualy strolls up into the back of the net - literally yards from where one of the flares is, and nonchalantly checks the goal net, walks away to take up his position on the touchline and goes about his business.
The goalkeeper and he didn't seem worried at all about the presence of a flare(s) - if the goalkeeper or the Assistant Referee had felt that it posed a danger to anyone or was anywhere near the pitch - then the referee would have been called over and had them removed from the vicinity of the playing area.
The evidence - on film - that they didn't speaks volumes imo.
ThatGuy
14/09/2005, 2:47 PM
Thats why I said playing surface you prat, they were to the left of the goal as you look at it, at the Shed End, this is the playing surface. FACT!
So basically in any ground where you stand on grass you are on the playing surface?
bohsbitch
14/09/2005, 2:48 PM
eircom League Suspensions effective 18th May
Pat Fenlon (Manager, Shelbourne) suspended for TWO (2) competitive matches, fined EUR200 and warned as to his future conduct. For this two match suspension, Mr Fenlon is to remain at least 50 metres away from the dressing room, technical area and pitch for at least two hours before the matches as well as during and after the matches.
higgins
14/09/2005, 2:51 PM
So if that happened every week at grounds up and down the country you would have no problem with it???
Is that what you think the EL are looking for ...
YES in fact they should have donated 3,000 towards your next hate campaign towards ex players.. That will have the crowds flocking to Dalymount and other grounds all over the country. I'm saddened by the fact none of you see that this was wrong :(
MariborKev
14/09/2005, 2:52 PM
It appears that the FAI are tired of trying to kill the domestic by pretending it doesn't exist.
Their new approach appears to drive out the remaining support with findings such as that produced by this committee.
It appears that numerous issues were not investigated by the Committee. Some had their evidence accepted without question, others had their dismissed without a chance to substantiate it.
Fines for banners- are we going to have stewards checking the wording of all flags prior to entry into a game from now on. Who decides that is offensive or not? As WWS says, fan culture is a central part of the game. We are the game.
Given that the Gardai refused to remove the Pi$$A=Juda$ from Tolka a few years back as it wasn't offensive are there going be comprehensive guidelines on this. :rolleyes:
Perhaps my QUBSC flag will be banned as it featured a crown which might remind home fans of Ireland's past as a colony.
I personally believe that flares and smoke canisters can be used safely. Bohs provide sandbuckets for the safe extinguishing of flares etc and this is an innovative yet simple solution to the safety issues. Perhaps we'll have a edict from the FAI on the use of lighters next........
Buile Shuibhne
14/09/2005, 2:52 PM
Also Ollie publically claimed to have been at a league management meeting where Rovers were discussed. The management committee explicitly note that no such incident occurred. This is arguably the most offensive of all "allegations" mentioned since it brings the league management committee into disrepute, yet again Ollie gets off scot free.:confused:
Rovers fans and others automatically assumed and stated that Ollie was at that particular meeting.
Ollie asked this Investigation Cmtee to confirm and state publicly that he was not at that meeting. They did so in their report published last night.
3. The Committee noted Oliver Byrnes evidence that allegations were made that he attended a management meeting of the League prior to the match and had requested the League at this meeting to take action against Shamrock Rovers in relation to the clubs examinership. League Representatives are in a position to refute any allegation that Mr. Oliver Byrne was at this management meeting and the Committee have noted this.
higgins
14/09/2005, 2:53 PM
two hours before the matches as well as during and after the matches.
As was already pointed out !!
There is no time limit on how long he should be away from the pitch after the game. Thats why the new bans are worded differently........
ThatGuy
14/09/2005, 2:54 PM
A banner with judas and a couple of flares? A banner calling a known thug a thug? Lock up your kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bloody hell, you would swear the officials of Bohs and Rovers were known to attack rival fans, directors etc or be involved in criminal activities. Oh wait...
This is football, not polo. Bohs and Rovers have no case to answer in relation to the Shelbourne games.
higgins
14/09/2005, 2:59 PM
This is football, not polo. Bohs and Rovers have no case to answer in relation to the Shelbourne games.
What does the sport played have to do with the safety and behaviour of fans ?
Buile Shuibhne
14/09/2005, 3:01 PM
The Match Delegate decides whats is offensive etc.
He is to be given more powers as a result of this process:
3) The Committee also belive that the practise of appointing match delegates and security personnel to League matches, especially high risk games, has been a welcome development but also that the remit of match delegates should be suitably strengthened and that clubs be informed that the individuals concerned have an unequivocal mandate from the League insofar as the control and management of games are concerned. In that regard, the Committee therefore recommend that in consultation with the Club Licensing Committee and the Association itself, the League should seek to introduce a suitable profile check list for delegates, for matches to which they are assigned, identifying all the relevant elements likely to arise in the match, under the umbrella of the rules of the League and Association and Club Licensing Regulations. The Committee also feel that all appointed match delegates should be convened for a suitable briefing session on issues in these areas prior to the commencement of each season.
Schumi
14/09/2005, 3:03 PM
What does the sport played have to do with the safety and behaviour of fans ?
How does a banner endanger anyone?
MariborKev
14/09/2005, 3:08 PM
The Match Delegate decides whats is offensive etc.
He is to be given more powers as a result of this process:
One might assume that ordinary fans will have the opportunity to complain to the match delegate on potential contentious situations then?
I am thinking about one match this season where opposition fans mimiced loyalists flute bands. On complaint to the stewards over this matter we were told to forget about it.
I am of the opinion that fan banter is part and parcel of the game.Given that one club has got another a large fine with regards a banner, complaints to match delegate with regards that club may increase substantially.
But hey, that if we ever get into the ground after the Department of Home League Security have their way...............
bohsbitch
14/09/2005, 3:11 PM
The flare display in Dalymount was approved by the FAI match observor on the night. He did not find it dangerous or offensive.
What's the point in having these observors when their decisions do not count for anything?
When you bypass the barrier, and are as such contained between the barriers that surrounds the perimter of the pitch, then yes it is essentially the same thing, whether grass or molten lava.
Buile Shuibhne
14/09/2005, 3:14 PM
The flare display in Dalymount was approved by the FAI match observor on the night. He did not find it dangerous or offensive.
What's the point in having these observors when their decisions do not count for anything?
How do you know he approved it?
Keeping this short and sweet.
Fines over a banner - what a load of bo**ox :mad: !!!
What next? Fines for offensive songs been sung :rolleyes:
harpskid
14/09/2005, 3:17 PM
So basically in any ground where you stand on grass you are on the playing surface?
Well, when you cross the primiter wall/fence and are on the grass, then yes you are deemed to be on the field of play
bohsbitch
14/09/2005, 3:17 PM
How do you know he approved it?
I was standing with the safety officer when he brought it to the delegate's attention. I don't remember his name off-hand but it is documented in the match records.
The fire-officer was also consulted and did not have a problem with it. He observed the display to ensure no spectators, players or officials were in danger.
Vitruvian Man
14/09/2005, 3:18 PM
It looks to me that Shelbournes demands that Bohs install a players tunnel and close their bar nearest the dressing rooms do not form part of the 4 recomendations of the committee - so hard luck Fintan.
Is seems also that the standard FAI finding is being trotted out again. Clubs shoud pay for more stewards (isn't a Frontline Security director a member of the FAI?)
It also looks to me that the door is being left open for Bohs to continue their case against the disgraceful actions of Shelbourne officials and employees during that game.
"The Committee defer their findings on all other allegations, which have been made in relation to the conduct of some club officials and players pending substantive witness evidence in that regard."
It all depends now on the Bohs officials finding the backbone that was so obviously lacking when they were being shafted in the first place.
I also think Rovers have a good case for appeal.
WeAreRovers
14/09/2005, 3:21 PM
I also think Rovers have a good case for appeal.
I would sincerely hope that a fan-owned club would appeal - especially against the fine for a banner. Otherwise we may throw our hat at it and let Ollie get on with destroying the league.
KOH
DOES ANYONE else fell that this cack handed effort by the EL office to get tough has actually been counter productive????
I can see this having the reverse effect to that intended
THE EL OFFICE cannot police fans - thats the job of the police
the el office can cesure clubs/individuals - its failed to do so
Jerry The Saint
14/09/2005, 3:27 PM
two hours before the matches as well as during and after the matches.
As was already pointed out !!
There is no time limit on how long he should be away from the pitch after the game. Thats why the new bans are worded differently........
Bullsh!t. I understand Fenlon watched the game from the TV gantry. How did he get there? Did he go there 2 hours before the game and sit tight until the game began?
Drumcondra Red
14/09/2005, 3:29 PM
So basically in any ground where you stand on grass you are on the playing surface?
Yes, inside the advertising hordes is classed as the playing surface, which is why its blocked off to the public, I don't believe you're trying to argue this??? Just anything against Shelbourne thatguy, is it???
Drumcondra Red
14/09/2005, 3:30 PM
Bullsh!t. I understand Fenlon watched the game from the TV gantry. How did he get there? Did he go there 2 hours before the game and sit tight until the game began?
No, but he neither went by the pitch or the changing rooms, there you go!
Réiteoir
14/09/2005, 3:30 PM
Bullsh!t. I understand Fenlon watched the game from the TV gantry. How did he get there? Did he go there 2 hours before the game and sit tight until the game began?
Footage of Fenlon in the gantry during the game exists - the camera pans round to him as Bohs score the 2nd.
He's allowed to be there, same as anyone else would be. As far as I am aware there is a clause in the rule you are allowed into the tv gantry even if it is less than 50m from the pitch. So by similar methods, Farrelly could sit up there if he got banned, etc.
have to admit I'd forgotten totally about shelbournes exsistence until this fine bull,s,hit......maybe its a plot by "oily" to get them back in the news again?
I reckon all clubs should get a banner with the following
“HEY FAI, FINE THIS YOU PACK OF ****ING *******!!!”
(And without censorship that reads f.u.cking w.a.nkers)
Lets see what happens
If people continue to get fined I’m going to get Shels fined for every game they unveil a “Champion” banner. Dunno how the rest of you feel but I find it sickeningly offensive
Oh and LOL @ sanctioned flares... F***ing pussies
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