Heimir Hallgrímsson

[JR89]

It just seems like you are trying to stir **** here to be honest. He was asked about it, he answered the question to say the approach came from the Jamaican FA, not him. If they dispute that it would be re-opened but, as of now, they haven't, so I doubt we'll hear any more about it unless that changes.

I have no idea why you think he should be asked about the thing in Iceland, to the best of my knowledge there is no suggestion that it has anything at all to do with him. Clearly there was an issue at board level there that was subsequently dealt with, if it involved him in any way I'm sure that would have emerged at that point.

To be honest it comes across as though you're just trying to stir things because he is the manager and it's not your pick Chris Hughton.

As JRG said his comments regarding Greenwood went deeper than what he talked about in the press conference. Comments where he showed sympathy towards what he has been through as if Greenwood was the victim in all this.

So don't think JRG is **** stirring whatsoever and actually surprised that someone didn't ask further questions at the press conference.

[Eirambler]

He was asked about it in the press conference, and also by VM Sport and RTE. Possibly in the print media session as well. So he's answered it a few times now. I just don't think there's a lot more to add. He's said he doesn't condone anything the player did, and he never capped him or picked him in a squad, so what else are you expecting him to say? Should we ask him his position on the Icelandic Cod Wars as well while we're at it? Or should we maybe just be focusing more on his views in respect of the Ireland team...

[texidub]

I like the way he talks football - inc. that line about not starting from zero every time. Seems grounded and sensible.

I simultaneously dislike both 'ethicists on the ditch' (too easy, hindsight 20/20 and no one could ever match their moral standards) AND the macho/laddish culture in and around football. I hope he is not one of the lads in that sense. Can we say the same for culture within the the FAI? (Innocent question as I have no clue.) I think it needs a little more clarification on his part -nothing a decent PR team couldn't handle- but while keeping in mind that he has never been accused of anything himself.

[seanfhear]

He was asked about it in the press conference, and also by VM Sport and RTE. Possibly in the print media session as well. So he's answered it a few times now. I just don't think there's a lot more to add. He's said he doesn't condone anything the player did, and he never capped him or picked him in a squad, so what else are you expecting him to say? Should we ask him his position on the Icelandic Cod Wars as well while we're at it? Or should we maybe just be focusing more on his views in respect of the Ireland team...
I miss the Cod Wars !

Bring back the Cod Wars !

[LurcherLover]

Logged in to have a look at the reaction to the Hallgrímsson appointment, just read the 1st page and was reminded why I hadn't logged in since the Willy Sagnol 'discussion'.

[SkStu]

I’d much rather we just focus on the football and this guys capabilities as a manager and leave these irrelevant side-notes alone. There’s none of us that never said or did anything wrong, so we’d be better off to stop trying to demand that standard from our football manager.

[Jolly Red Giant]

It just seems like you are trying to stir **** here to be honest. He was asked about it, he answered the question to say the approach came from the Jamaican FA, not him. If they dispute that it would be re-opened but, as of now, they haven't, so I doubt we'll hear any more about it unless that changes.

I have no idea why you think he should be asked about the thing in Iceland, to the best of my knowledge there is no suggestion that it has anything at all to do with him. Clearly there was an issue at board level there that was subsequently dealt with, if it involved him in any way I'm sure that would have emerged at that point.

To be honest it comes across as though you're just trying to stir things because he is the manager and it's not your pick Chris Hughton.
Drop the Chris Hughton nonsense - in purely footballing terms Hallgrimsson deserves a chance. This is not about his footballing ability - it is about his role and attitude relating to very serious cases of gender based violence against women.

Unfortunately the reality is that Hallgrimsson did not provide an adequate answer about why he made the comments he did about Greenwood - his response was a corporate PR exercise, attempting to put the blame on the Jamaican FA and ignore the fact that he met with Greenwood and then his comments portrayed Greenwood as a victim.

Throughout his period of involvement with the Icelandic team rumours were circulating about the violence perpetrated by squad players against women - the gang rape of a woman in 2010 and the sexual assault and attempted strangulation of two women by another prominent player in 2017, being the most high profile of the accusations at the time. An investigation by the Icelandic government stated that there was a culture within the squad throughout the 2010s that violence against women was acceptable - a squad that Hallgrimsson was first assistant manager and then manager between 2013-2018. It lacks credibility that, given leading members of the Icelandic FA were aware of what had happened and covered-up the allegations, that senior members of the management team would not have some inkling with regards to the allegations - the 2017 allegations were reported both to the police and to the Icelandic FA when the violence happened.

Now - if Hallgrimsson had no knowledge of these allegations then fair enough - but in my view, if he doesn't make a statement on it then he should receive strenuous questioning by reporters and he needs to outline how he was unaware of these allegations when rumours existed and in 2017 both the police and the Icelandic FA had full knowledge of the allegations against an Icelandic player. On top of that - he really does need to drop the corporate PR act about Greenwood, put his hand up and say 'I was wrong to do what I did and to say what I did'.

Remember - the FAI appointed Hallgrimsson two days after several female footballers made very serious allegations against FAI coaches, demonstrating once again that those who lead the FAI have their head buried in the sand when it comes to the issue of the safety of female players and the threat of gender-based violence against female players.

[Acornvilla]

I think what the big red guy is saying is all fair, I also understand the view of others who want to move on and enjoy something for once, just be weary of taking this stuff lightly is all I'd ask. I certainly don't aim to downplay it, I've already said my own piece early in the topic and have nothing further to add about it all.

In other news, an terview about HH for anyone interested. I haven't even watched it myself yet, maybe some questions will be answered courtesy of Raf ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt58k04X8hw&ab_channel=RT%C3%89Sport

[backstothewall]

I will post about the variety of allegations surrounding HH once, and once only, unless the known facts change.

Mason Greenwood: This is the most significant allegation for me. It's difficult because on one hand the audio recording was stark, but on the other hand the case against him was dismissed and in theory he is entitled to be treated with a presumption of innocence.

He was definitely attempting to pass the buck to the Jamaican FA with the answer he gave earlier in the year.

I would like to know the context in which he was asked the question. It would be good to know if it was a pre approved question in a sit down interview or if it was sprung on him in a press conference? It reads more like the latter than the former, and I can see why he would want to give an answer that doesn't close of any options in that situation.

Historic Icelandic allegations: Some of the historic allegations I've seen mentioned regarding this go back to 2010, long before he was involved with their men's national team.

There is a serious accusation against Kolbeinn Sigþórsson from 2017. That seems to have been dealt with at the time in the Icelandic FA by Gudni Bergson rather than HH. There was no police action so I doubt it would have come across the managers desk beyond their FA briefly making him unavailable for selection while it was looked in to.

The initial allegations against Gylfri Sigurdsson were incredibly serious, but IIRC it eventually emerged that he was the victim of an elaborate blackmail scam and he immediately went to the police explaining what had happened.

In every case the allegations aren't that he did anything wrong in his own personal conduct, but that he might have handled things better. With the benefit of hindsight he might have done a few things differently , but at the same time none of his actions seem to have been totally unreasonable under the circumstances.

The timing with what is going on in the FAI is obviously unfortunate, but that's the FAI as usual.

Damian Duff: His comments are unsurprising, but I haven't been able to find anything where he talks about the HH appointment directly.

He's criticising the FAI for their obvious faults. It's well established what they are. Things are better than the were under John Delaney, but there's still a long way to go.

But while saying these things he was obviously itching for his old mate John from his playing days to get the job. John O'Shea was grossly unqualified to even be in the interim position he was in, but Duffer wanted him to be given the full time gig, presumably because he's an old friend. Damian was a much more credible candidate himself but made it incredibly clear he wouldn't consider taking the job.

That's exactly the sort of mutual back-scratching bull**** the FAI are famous for. Duffer wants to run with the fox and the hounds on this. It'll be difficult to take anything he says in future terribly seriously TBH.

[Razors left peg]

Greenwoods Mrs happy to stay with him, got pregnant since and by all accounts they are happy. He's still employed in football and chances are a big club will buy him for big money this summer. Never been convicted of anything. Some of the stories over the years of our ex internationals treatment of women make you fall off your chair so I think if Greenwoods partner has forgiven him Hallgrimsson making a comment about trying to recruit him for the Jamaican team is completely irrelevant and quiet honestly I genuinely don't understand why it's even a story.
It's not the same as Sagnol thinking white players more intelligent than Africans, that's a belief he holds. And it's definitely not the same as Lennon threatening to slit the throat of his mistress.

This seems like a good appointment from a football standpoint and the tone on here as per usual is doom and gloom

[EalingGreen]

Greenwoods Mrs happy to stay with him, got pregnant since and by all accounts they are happy... ... I think if Greenwoods partner has forgiven him...Read this:
https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/women-leave/


He's still employed in footballOf course he is - he's still bloody good at it and for a lot of people, that's all that counts.

[Razors left peg]

Read this:
https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/women-leave/

Of course he is - he's still bloody good at it and for a lot of people, that's all that counts.

Look I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but we don't know the full story either. When Utd did an internal investigation they also cleared him. What happened never came out in court, but my point is mainly that trying to tie Hallstrimsson to it is nonsense

[JR89]

Read this:
https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/women-leave/

Also doesn't help when your father goes public defending your abuser because he saw his cash cow disappearing. Might as well have gotten himself a fedora and a blinged up cane for his interview. Feel sorry for the poor girl when you've got family like that who'll put money over your safety.

[EalingGreen]

When Utd did an internal investigation they also cleared him.Aye, they "cleared" their £50m asset from being flushed down the pan, so that they've now preserved maybe half his value in the transfer market.


What happened never came out in courtAnd have you ever wondered why? Clue:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Pound_sterling_note_selection.png/190px-Pound_sterling_note_selection.png


... my point is mainly that trying to tie Hallstrimsson to it is nonsenseIt's not a question of "tying him into it", rather it's a question of his distancing himself sufficiently from it. Which many people think he hasn't managed.

None of which makes him unfit for the job, but that doesn't mean he should be immune from scrutiny, at least until he comes up with a better stance on the issue than he has thus far.

[Eirambler]

Greenwood is going to go on and have a career whether people like it or not. Clubs will sign him and managers will be compelled to pick him. It is what it is. In our case though we have hired a manager who never picked him or even called him up. So, again, there really is no mileage in this in the context of Heimir Hallgrimsson.

[EalingGreen]

Greenwood is going to go on and have a career whether people like it or not. Clubs will sign him and managers will be compelled to pick him. It is what it is.No doubt.

But we all know why that is, and it's precious little to do with natural justice or womens' rights etc.


In our case though we have hired a manager who never picked him or even called him up. So, again, there really is no mileage in this in the context of Heimir Hallgrimsson.All he had to say was "His eligibility is a matter for the Jamaican FA. If they decide he should be, then he will be available for selection, but if they don't, then we move on."

Instead, he made excuses for him, such that he appeared to be painting MG as the victim in all this. :eek:

And that's without having scouted and interviewed him beforehand etc, which I believe he may have done? (Unsure)

[dynamo kerry]

No doubt.

But we all know why that is, and it's precious little to do with natural justice or womens' rights etc.

All he had to say was "His eligibility is a matter for the Jamaican FA. If they decide he should be, then he will be available for selection, but if they don't, then we move on."

Instead, he made excuses for him, such that he appeared to be painting MG as the victim in all this. :eek:

And that's without having scouted and interviewed him beforehand etc, which I believe he may have done? (Unsure)
Entirely agree. Whole thing stinks. I'm a season ticket holder and long time devotee. But I'm checking out for the duration of whatever this version of Irish men's football is. No thanks.

[liamoo11]

No doubt.

But we all know why that is, and it's precious little to do with natural justice or womens' rights etc.

All he had to say was "His eligibility is a matter for the Jamaican FA. If they decide he should be, then he will be available for selection, but if they don't, then we move on."

Instead, he made excuses for him, such that he appeared to be painting MG as the victim in all this. :eek:

And that's without having scouted and interviewed him beforehand etc, which I believe he may have done? (Unsure)

You are spot on here. Shows horrible judgement on his part . The fact that he is a good communicator males it much worse as there is no way he just got dazed by the question and fumbled a response.

[JR89]

No doubt.

But we all know why that is, and it's precious little to do with natural justice or womens' rights etc.

All he had to say was "His eligibility is a matter for the Jamaican FA. If they decide he should be, then he will be available for selection, but if they don't, then we move on."

Instead, he made excuses for him, such that he appeared to be painting MG as the victim in all this. :eek:

And that's without having scouted and interviewed him beforehand etc, which I believe he may have done? (Unsure)

How some don't realize that this is why some people might still have questions for him regarding Greenwood especially given the week we've just had in Irish football with the sexual abuse allegations coming forward.

[Razors left peg]

We don't know the full story behind Greenwood. I understand women's relationship with their abuser more than I'd be willing to discuss here, but I simply think the whole situation is completely irrelevant to Hallgrimsson and it's coming across as we are always just looking for something to complain about

[Jolly Red Giant]

Let's be clear - on the allegations relating to the Icelandic players - I am not accusing Hallgrimsson of any wrongdoing or misdeeds in relation to the allegations about the actions of Icelandic footballers in the 2010s.

The issue I have is that it was clear that there was a culture in the Icelandic squad that made gender-based violence acceptable - and an Icelandic government report stated such. The reason that Board of the Icelandic FA resigned was not just because of one incident but because of this culture that existed - as late as 2021 when the Board resigned some players were still talking about the toxic culture that still existed that needed to be changed. It is suggested that the allegations of gang rape in 2010 are irrelevant - but the two players accused continued to play for Iceland under Hallgrimsson (one of them is still a regular in the Icelandic team). Furthermore, it is alleged that the accused players joked about the gang rape in the locker room to other players. The victim of this gang rape reported the assault to the police but was told there was no prospect of a conviction because the assault happened in Denmark. The player involved in the 2017 incident, which involved two women, was reported to the police the following day and to the Icelandic FA a couple of days later - both the police and the FA covered-up the assaults and the player continued to be picked to play by Hallgrimsson.

Again - I am not making any accusations about Hallgrimsson - but when players are joking about a gang rape, other players are complaining about the culture in the locker room, and rumours containing serious accusations of sexual violence against multiple players are circulating, I think it is appropriate for Hallgrimsson to be asked about what he was aware of and what he did or did not do during his tenure from 2013-2018.

And remember again - this is all in a backdrop this week, the week of his appointment, but more importantly, the week when several female players made serious accusations against coaching staff employed by the FAI.

[Jolly Red Giant]

We don't know the full story behind Greenwood. I understand women's relationship with their abuser more than I'd be willing to discuss here, but I simply think the whole situation is completely irrelevant to Hallgrimsson and it's coming across as we are always just looking for something to complain about
Do you think that the female footballers who this week made accusations against FAI coaching staff, think that the actions and comments of the MNT manager appointed two days later are irrelevant ?

I don't - and I think it is important to raise these questions.

The FAI Board should have been aware of everything that went on - including the resignation of the entire Board of the Icelandic FA in 2021 - and should have been far more cognisant of the potential fallout of appointing Hallgrimsson, particularly when, two days earlier, they were making apologies to players who were subjected to sexual harassment and coercion.

[John83]

Would there be an appetite for two seperate Hallgrimsson threads, one for the discussion around the Greenwood quotes etc. and the other strictly confined to football? The discussion has been interesting and respectful so far, for which I am grateful, but of course some people don't have much appetite for it and may feel unable to discuss what they want to.

[Razors left peg]

Do you think that the female footballers who this week made accusations against FAI coaching staff, think that the actions and comments of the MNT manager appointed two days later are irrelevant ?

I don't - and I think it is important to raise these questions.

The FAI Board should have been aware of everything that went on - including the resignation of the entire Board of the Icelandic FA in 2021 - and should have been far more cognisant of the potential fallout of appointing Hallgrimsson, particularly when, two days earlier, they were making apologies to players who were subjected to sexual harassment and coercion.

Hallgrimsson has never been accused of being an abuser, he has been asked and answered about Greenwood multiple times this week. He has no personal relationship with Greenwood and was not part of Greenwoods abuse. That's the end of it for me. Unless the man himself has abused someone or condoned it in Public I really don't know what more you want from him

[Jolly Red Giant]

Hallgrimsson has never been accused of being an abuser, he has been asked and answered about Greenwood multiple times this week. He has no personal relationship with Greenwood and was not part of Greenwoods abuse. That's the end of it for me. Unless the man himself has abused someone or condoned it in Public I really don't know what more you want from him
Please read what I wrote before firing from the hip.

And you are wrong about Greenwood - In March of this year Hallgrimsson met with Greenwood to try and persuade him to switch allegiance to Jamaica. Hallgrimsson then came out as an apologist for Greenwood, portraying him as the victim.

Now - you may want to brush this stuff under the carpet and minimise the impact of Hallgrimsson's actions and words - but in the context of the earlier accusations about FAI coaches this week, this is not going away until Hallgrimsson comes out and makes a proper statement, not a corporate PR fluff job, about Greenwood and also addresses the culture in the locker room that he oversaw while working with the Icelandic team.

This is similar to the stuff about Sagnol - and it astonishes me that these individuals, and those who advise them, cannot come out with the hand up and admit that they got it wrong, make a proper apology and commit to combatting similar attitudes in future. If Hallgrimsson came out tomorrow (as he should have done this week) and says 'I regret meeting Mason Greenwood, I now feel it sent the wrong message to the survivors of gender-based violence and I am committed to supporting those who are survivors of such violence from whatever sphere of society' - and then say - 'I accept that I could have been more attentive to the culture of the locker room while with Iceland, I should have been more proactive in finding out what happened and who was involved and acted accordingly, and I will work consistently in the future to ensure that any squad I pick with not manifest any sign of toxic masculinity and will support anyone affected by such an environment'.

Making a statement like that would demonstrate that Hallgrimsson recognises what is going on in society today, recognises that it needs to be addressed in a supportive way for survivors and it would immediately change the narrative, particularly in the aftermath of the very recent allegations.

[CraftyToePoke]

Hypothetically, would people still be ok with this had Greenwood had Irish eligibility & our manager had met him & said those the things HH has gone on public record with ? Or if HH had said those things in relation to the player playing for us ?

I think there would be a very different reaction & perspective on this then & the fait accompli nature of this announcement does make me wonder if that is why it was done that way.

Either way, he is now our manager and he seems a decent enough person on first impression, although I feel for those genuinely & clearly upset by this because had it been Sagnol I would have dropped out for the duration of his tenure, I wouldn't have supported that.

[Diggs246]

Would there be an appetite for two seperate Hallgrimsson threads, one for the discussion around the Greenwood quotes etc. and the other strictly confined to football? The discussion has been interesting and respectful so far, for which I am grateful, but of course some people don't have much appetite for it and may feel unable to discuss what they want to.

Yes please. I'm dying of boredom
It's the same arguments just being rehashed.

[CraftyToePoke]

Would there be an appetite for two seperate Hallgrimsson threads, one for the discussion around the Greenwood quotes etc. and the other strictly confined to football? The discussion has been interesting and respectful so far, for which I am grateful, but of course some people don't have much appetite for it and may feel unable to discuss what they want to.

I think it has merit yes & given its RLP & JRG mainly squaring up, neither will yield or stop & it will just circle itself. There's no new info & there won't be.

[Acornvilla]

Hypothetically, would people still be ok with this had Greenwood had Irish eligibility & our manager had met him & said those the things HH has gone on public record with ?
I'd personally be much more vocal in my concern tbh

I think it probably might make sense to split threads because I understand why most people don't want to engage with this

[backstothewall]

People just want something to talk about and in the absence of anything football related this is all there is.

If I were him I would make a phone call and organise a B international against Iceland with squads picked from the domestic leagues. It would show he's hitting the ground running and people would have something else to argue about from the moment the squad was announced.

[pineapple stu]

I don't think the LoI will be having any input into the national team any time soon unfortunately.

Not sure I see any merit in that idea

[backstothewall]

The merit is that it would give people something else to talk about, though it might help him politically if it helped get LoI supporters onside. Kenny would never have lasted as long as he did without their support.

It would be a great shop window for the players selected with the European transfer window being open.

[CraftyToePoke]

A lot of the early phrases in the coverage are organised, hard working, disrupt the opponent, themed. So will he be more of a Molumby / Knight working grunt in midfield fan than Smallbone or bringing a Moran type through ?

[pineapple stu]

The merit is that it would give people something else to talk about, though it might help him politically if it helped get LoI supporters onside. Kenny would never have lasted as long as he did without their support.

It would be a great shop window for the players selected with the European transfer window being open.
I think the Euro games are the best transfer window though - and they're not exactly selling themselves. I'm not sure a B game would benefit tbh

There'll be a bit of chat as we get to the England game which is what - seven weeks away?

Can't see much difference to the first squad because tbh there's nobody really outside the squad who'd as much as yet. (Possibly Manning aside)

[JR89]

A lot of the early phrases in the coverage are organised, hard working, disrupt the opponent, themed. So will he be more of a Molumby / Knight working grunt in midfield fan than Smallbone or bringing a Moran type through ?

Gylfi Sigurdsson played a lot as one of the two 6s in midfield if Transfermarkt is accurate so could see it being Cullen and Smallbone.

Moran played there for Blackburn in a couple of games. Only saw one against Newcastle where he played well. Azaz another lad you wonder how he'll fit into the team. Maybe as one of the midfield two or he might favour 352 with us. Played 343 with Jamaica.

If he reverts to 442 I can see Knight playing on the left of midfield. Iceland had Birkir Bjarnason playing on the left and similar to Knight he's probably played everywhere on the pitch bar CB.

[Eirambler]

People just want something to talk about and in the absence of anything football related this is all there is.

If I were him I would make a phone call and organise a B international against Iceland with squads picked from the domestic leagues. It would show he's hitting the ground running and people would have something else to argue about from the moment the squad was announced.

I think this would just raise unrealistic expectations of LoI involvement in the senior squad going forward. It would just lead to complaints that whoever played well in the B game never got a full call up.

Even during Stephen Kenny's time in charge, when we had maybe our weakest squad in modern history, I think the only involvement of domestic players on the pitch was two appearances off the bench from Jack Byrne in the first Nations League campaign. Nothing after that for the next three years. And the squad is a lot stronger and deeper now.

So, while it's great that he'll be living in Ireland and going to games, I think there needs to be an acceptance that he's unlikely to be calling up domestic based players, other than maybe an occasional training keeper or something.


I would be in favour of the Greenwood stuff being spun off into a separate thread, maybe even into another part of the message board to be honest. While it's clearly an issue for a small number of posters here and a few SJWs on Twitter, I'm not getting the sense that there is any real wider interest in it. The link to Hallgrimsson is just too tenuous for it to be relevant to most people, and there's little mention of it in the media as he answered the question repeatedly during the week, so there's nothing much else to be said. Some people will always look to create issues wherever they can, probably they'd go digging for something regardless of who was hired as manager.

[Razors left peg]

In spite of Crafty calling me a stubborn b0ll0cks I'm happy to drop the Greenwood thing. My point was I didn't think it was a big deal

[Jolly Red Giant]

Hypothetically, would people still be ok with this had Greenwood had Irish eligibility & our manager had met him & said those the things HH has gone on public record with ? Or if HH had said those things in relation to the player playing for us ?

Doesn't matter who the player was and who he played for - I would insist on the same questions being asked about the manager - and I would not want Greenwood (or anyone similar) in the Irish squad.


I think it has merit yes & given its RLP & JRG mainly squaring up, neither will yield or stop & it will just circle itself. There's no new info & there won't be.
RLP has indicated a clear perspective - which I fundamentally disagree with - and I don't see any reason to engage further with it.

[Jolly Red Giant]

there's little mention of it in the media as he answered the question repeatedly during the week,
There is little mention of it in the media because the media is doing what it always does with the FAI - engaging in whitewashing. Any journalist worth their salt would be asking some very hard questions - but those type of reporters are few and far between these days. The modern journalist is more of a copy and paste type of individual (and tends to get paid accordingly).

[Trequartista20]

Shocked by the rudeness and hostility of the Irish media at the press conference. Especially when contrasted with the kid glove treatment afforded to Kenny and the heavy promotion of the very obviously unqualified O'Shea for the top job.

Maybe I'm misreading things, but it feels a lot like xenophobia.

[Eirambler]

There is little mention of it in the media because the media is doing what it always does with the FAI - engaging in whitewashing. Any journalist worth their salt would be asking some very hard questions - but those type of reporters are few and far between these days. The modern journalist is more of a copy and paste type of individual (and tends to get paid accordingly).

I don't think that's true - I rarely see a good word said in the Irish media about the FAI, and in a lot of cases there's good reason for that. If there was anything in the Greenwood story they'd go for it to get the clicks, but there just isn't.

[pineapple stu]

Shocked by the rudeness and hostility of the Irish media at the press conference.
Any particular instances worth flagging? I haven't seen anyone else indicate that.

[Stuttgart88]

HH’s Greenwood quotes don’t sit well with me. But nor did Rory Best’s attendance at the Belfast Rape trial, seemingly to offer moral support to his teammates. I haven’t heard any outrage against Best continuing as a TV pundit. I think this is comparable to who managed Olding and Jackson subsequent to the trial. Legally innocent, morally questionable players. Did we ask serious questions of who employed them subsequently? Or who offered moral support?

I think it’s awkward for HH but far from fatal. Sometimes work puts you in a sh1t position.

Tomorrow Spain plays England in a major final. Spanish football has been pathetic in its response to racism. English football has dealt with the matter much better.

I’m a vehement anti-racist but who am I up for?

[pineapple stu]

Legally innocent, morally questionable players. Did we ask serious questions of who employed them subsequently? Or who offered moral support?
Where do we place Troy Parrott hanging out with Kinahan associates?

[Diggs246]

Where do we place Troy Parrott hanging out with Kinahan associates?

I found Troy hanging around with the kinahan highly offensive.

They are a complete cancer on our society.

People like Lennon and Sagnol are ignorant d**k heads, but these guys are brutal killers. They would kill everyone on this forum if it meant getting what they wanted

[Eirambler]

What about Shane Duffy being a repeat drink driving offender? That behaviour gets completely innocent people killed. Where do you draw the line? Wherever it is, I'm certain Hallgrimsson not ruling out Greenwood but then also not calling him up either doesn't cross it, that's for sure.

[Diggs246]

What about Shane Duffy being a repeat drink driving offender? That behaviour gets completely innocent people killed. Where do you draw the line? Wherever it is, I'm certain Hallgrimsson not ruling out Greenwood but then also not calling him up either doesn't cross it, that's for sure.

I don't want to misrepresent your statement, but are you infairimg the kinahan drug cartel don't kill "completely innocent" people?

Tbf your not saying that right

[Eirambler]

No my post had nothing to do with the Kinahans.

[Acornvilla]

We're falling in to the there's no ethical consumption under capitalism realm of debate now, it's all fair, once you look at almost anything too closely it's pretty difficult to enjoy it. You just have to roll with your own conscience at the end of the day.

Parrott's pals involvement in boxing has tarnished how I feel about a lot of people I would have respected previously. I'd probably give Troy some degree of a pass because of his age, and who knows what he knows about these people in all honesty, the older he gets the less rope I'd give him thou. For Duffy, I understand his life has been in a bit of a tailspin since the passing of his father, I empathize massively with him, but I also don't think he should have been called up in to the last squad so soon after the last incident.

I've already said what I thought about HH, his statement was passable at best, I'm sure for him and FAI the matter is sorted, nothing will be brought up about it again unless someone in the media really does their homework and goes for it. When you start paying any attention to the media in general you realize so much of it is borderline paid advertising at best, there's a few excellent individuals within Ireland, but a lot of people just coasting and getting a paycheck, which is fair enough as well honestly, their agency and job security is being eroded all the time too.

I don't really see the point in talking about it any more. I appreciate the few people who are trying to hammer home that it is quite serious and trying to get others to not take it so lightly, but the point has been made enough now, everyone here knows what's up, it's up to them to do with that what they wish and feel how they feel.

For me personally I really hate a lot of things I used to love and it is exhausting, but I am wired in such a way that I can't really ignore the problematic aspects.

[Acornvilla]

Just seen online HH has said he'd like to do the domestic based internationals, and hold them around January. I know it was suggested here earlier, but is something I always wanted to see. It's also something I think the Women's team really should be doing.