Heimir Hallgr�msson

[ontheotherhand]

And Kingdom too, later on and in the cold light of day.

YBIG and Boards are much busier, and universal criticism. (I think reddit was the same but it's a headmelt trying to find anything there, so I can't find the match thread now)

You're right that there's an element of heat of the moment in it for sure. But I think it tells something all the same that every comment was very negative.

I'm not saying anyone is saying he should start. Just that maybe there's one or two in the squad that could benefit from the treatment Doherty/Molumby got.


I was at it too, and I agree the Armenian defenders didn't like him. But again, he still had no end product.

Fair enough. In the heat of the match, I wanted Azaz off....so......

Looking back at the game, it was a really strange performance. Outside of Parrot, Kelleher, Coleman and maybe Ogbene, none of the starters were great. They all had good moments but bad moments too. Manning and maybe Kenny were the best of the subs but it was a chaotic team performance against and equally shambolic Hungarian one, particularly in the second half, where neither team seemed to be able to settle. It suited us in the end but mainly because Parrot was flawless.

[backstothewall]

Fair enough. In the heat of the match, I wanted Azaz off....so......

Looking back at the game, it was a really strange performance. Outside of Parrot, Kelleher, Coleman and maybe Ogbene, none of the starters were great. They all had good moments but bad moments too. Manning and maybe Kenny were the best of the subs but it was a chaotic team performance against and equally shambolic Hungarian one, particularly in the second half, where neither team seemed to be able to settle. It suited us in the end but mainly because Parrot was flawless.

There's a difference between chaotic and shambolic.

There's no doubt that it was a chaotic game. But the chaos is a feature, not a bug. It's a deliberate strategy being coached on the training ground and directed from the dugout by the manager.

And he told us he was going to do this back in September.



“If it helps us, I really like more chaos than calmness.”

“I think we have so much energy and so much physical strength in our team that we shouldn't be a calm team. We should use that power to help us win games."

[rebelmusic]

Are ye forgetting that he already got that treatment for the Portugal / Armenia window and had a meltdown on Twitter?

He ended up being called in to cover someone (can't remember who) and put in a man of the match display.

I definitely think the next step would be arm around the shoulder. "Remember how you responded the last time" etc etc.

[elatedscum]

Are ye forgetting that he already got that treatment for the Portugal / Armenia window and had a meltdown on Twitter?

He ended up being called in to cover someone (can't remember who) and put in a man of the match display.

I definitely think the next step would be arm around the shoulder. "Remember how you responded the last time" etc etc.

that was the first window where both him, Molumby and Coleman were left out for Jimmy Dunne, Killian Phillips etc.

[ontheotherhand]

There's a difference between chaotic and shambolic.

There's no doubt that it was a chaotic game. But the chaos is a feature, not a bug. It's a deliberate strategy being coached on the training ground and directed from the dugout by the manager.

And he told us he was going to do this back in September.

I remember the quote and referenced it on another thread I think, but, given that we haven't seen much of it until the Hungary game, I'd be wary of giving HH all the credit for this one. Hungary's own nerves played a big part in creating the later chaos as did the general winner takes all aspect of the game. HH did pounce on it though with aggressive subs and deserves praise for that.

[backstothewall]

I remember the quote and referenced it on another thread I think, but, given that we haven't seen much of it until the Hungary game, I'd be wary of giving HH all the credit for this one. Hungary's own nerves played a big part in creating the later chaos as did the general winner takes all aspect of the game. HH did pounce on it though with aggressive subs and deserves praise for that.

I definately saw aspects of it against Portugal. They pushed up very high from the get go, and there were a number of occasions when we just smashed the ball clear into the vast expanse of space between their back 4 and the goalkeeper. Generally speaking the result was their defenders running back towards their own goal in a foot race with Ogbene (which he invariably won), and we supported the attack in whatever way we could and tried to make something happen before they had time to properly set themselves.

We didn't score from it but under the previous regime we would have been trying to counter attack with a few extra passes, the opposition would have time to set themselves, and it would inevitably have broken down in the middle of the field and the pressure would have been straight back on us.

[ontheotherhand]

I definately saw aspects of it against Portugal. They pushed up very high from the get go, and there were a number of occasions when we just smashed the ball clear into the vast expanse of space between their back 4 and the goalkeeper. Generally speaking the result was their defenders running back towards their own goal in a foot race with Ogbene (which he invariably won), and we supported the attack in whatever way we could and tried to make something happen before they had time to properly set themselves.

We didn't score from it but under the previous regime we would have been trying to counter attack with a few extra passes, the opposition would have time to set themselves, and it would inevitably have broken down in the middle of the field and the pressure would have been straight back on us.

Maybe we need to distinguish between planned chaos and unplanned chaos. Probably a lot of both on Sunday....but from both teams. I'm still very confused as to why Festy was being asked to fire long throws into the box when he kept falling way, way short of the targets for example. Planned chaos.....or......just a bit of a shambles?

[elatedscum]

Maybe we need to distinguish between planned chaos and unplanned chaos. Probably a lot of both on Sunday....but from both teams. I'm still very confused as to why Festy was being asked to fire long throws into the box when he kept falling way, way short of the targets for example. Planned chaos.....or......just a bit of a shambles?

he was able to do it earlier in the campaign or in a friendly. maybe the armenia home game? i remember being really surprised by his long throw. but he just didn't have the distance at all and it was really obvious that at the very least we needed someone short to flick it on if he didn't make the distance

[backstothewall]

Maybe we need to distinguish between planned chaos and unplanned chaos. Probably a lot of both on Sunday....but from both teams. I'm still very confused as to why Festy was being asked to fire long throws into the box when he kept falling way, way short of the targets for example. Planned chaos.....or......just a bit of a shambles?

I think that was a simple matter of him standing there and ending up taking the throw. Someone should have had the wit to call off the long throw strategy we had while O'Brien was on the field but I've see better teams than us making that mistake.

It reminded me of a certain night when Germany were pushing up to the the half way line at kick outs owing to having scouted Shay Given's weakness at kicking, and continuing to do so after Given was carried off and replaced by Darren Randolph. Even after Randolph demonstrated he had a foot like a traction engine they kept at it and only learned the lesson after Shane Long scored the goal that broke Scottish hearts.

[rebelmusic]

that was the first window where both him, Molumby and Coleman were left out for Jimmy Dunne, Killian Phillips etc.

I stand corrected! Anyway it's the same point, the tough love approach was already done with him

[ontheotherhand]

I think that was a simple matter of him standing there and ending up taking the throw. Someone should have had the wit to call off the long throw strategy we had while O'Brien was on the field but I've see better teams than us making that mistake.

It reminded me of a certain night when Germany were pushing up to the the half way line at kick outs owing to having scouted Shay Given's weakness at kicking, and continuing to do so after Given was carried off and replaced by Darren Randolph. Even after Randolph demonstrated he had a foot like a traction engine they kept at it and only learned the lesson after Shane Long scored the goal that broke Scottish hearts.

Well yeah, but thats my point - HH didn't have with wit to call off the long throws, even after Festy failed to reach the targets on at least 2 back to back attempts. Festy was even waving at the team to get closer by about the 2nd or 3rd throw. It wasn't just one throw that he happened to pick up because he was closest to it.

Nice memory all the same. Might go watch that one again too now.

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough. In the heat of the match, I wanted Azaz off....so......
And you might have had a point. There was a change at halftime which may have helped him improve in the second (Scales was also criticised but the change helped him) and Azaz has credit in the bank from Bulgaria in particular, and from some good club performances (fewer this season).

I just don't see Festy has that. I'm not buying into the chaos theory unless he actually does something tangible

[ontheotherhand]

And you might have had a point. There was a change at halftime which may have helped him improve in the second (Scales was also criticised but the change helped him) and Azaz has credit in the bank from Bulgaria in particular, and from some good club performances (fewer this season).

I just don't see Festy has that. I'm not buying into the chaos theory unless he actually does something tangible

Yeah the shift in role for azaz helped a lot but he still wasn't great outside the moments he was! 😂

Four days on from Sunday and we are debating Festy. 😂

Who would you rather have as a bench option stu? That's what Festy is after all. As opposed to Azaz now. Can't think of anyone similar to Festy if we need a bit of pace and power.

[backstothewall]

Well yeah, but thats my point - HH didn't have with wit to call off the long throws, even after Festy failed to reach the targets on at least 2 back to back attempts. Festy was even waving at the team to get closer by about the 2nd or 3rd throw. It wasn't just one throw that he happened to pick up because he was closest to it.

Nice memory all the same. Might go watch that one again too now.

Oh I don't dispute that it was missed and that HH should have changed the approach. All I'm saying is that if his biggest mistake is one we've also seen made by World Cup winning coach Joachim Löw, it's probably not that big a deal. Especially if we won the game and it didn't cost us in any way.

[Kingdom]

I fupping hate any specialised set-piece undertaken poorly - it shows a lack of prep, a lack of skill and makes a team look underwhelming.
However, there's one factor that we all are aware of with long throws, the chaos it introduces, but also, even if the function itself isn't great, it pins the defending team back into the crowded area and ensures that if the ball remains live, that there's no real escape for a secondary or tertiary play - which is ultimately what led to our winner.

I think it's a fair position to take.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah the shift in role for azaz helped a lot but he still wasn't great outside the moments he was! ������
At least he had the moments where he wasn't great though :p

Who would I rather have as a bench option? Johnston is the obvious choice, but he's not been great the last couple of games. Sykes maybe. I just don't rate Festy at all - and I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean there's better out there at the moment. If it's pace and power we want, Usain Bolt would have made it as a footballer, and he didn't. I want a bit of end product.


Four days on from Sunday and we are debating Festy. ������
Ah but isn't it great to see the bit of buzz about the place again!

And by and large it's very cordial debate even when views differ, which is great

[ontheotherhand]

At least he had the moments where he wasn't great though :p

Who would I rather have as a bench option? Johnston is the obvious choice, but he's not been great the last couple of games. Sykes maybe. I just don't rate Festy at all - and I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean there's better out there at the moment. If it's pace and power we want, Usain Bolt would have made it as a footballer, and he didn't. I want a bit of end product.


Ah but isn't it great to see the bit of buzz about the place again!

And by and large it's very cordial debate even when views differ, which is great

Yeah it is good to have the place buzzing.

Johnston was also on the bench so you can have him and Festy. I'm not going to die on the Festy hill here btw. He was brutal against Portugal. Always liked him for the 21s though and think there is more to come from him in a way that I probably don't believe for the likes of Johnston or Sykes.

[elatedscum]

At least he had the moments where he wasn't great though :p

Who would I rather have as a bench option? Johnston is the obvious choice, but he's not been great the last couple of games. Sykes maybe. I just don't rate Festy at all - and I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean there's better out there at the moment. If it's pace and power we want, Usain Bolt would have made it as a footballer, and he didn't. I want a bit of end product.

Sykes was called up but missed out through injury. Jamie McGrath was called up to replace him.

[elatedscum]

I fupping hate any specialised set-piece undertaken poorly - it shows a lack of prep, a lack of skill and makes a team look underwhelming.
However, there's one factor that we all are aware of with long throws, the chaos it introduces, but also, even if the function itself isn't great, it pins the defending team back into the crowded area and ensures that if the ball remains live, that there's no real escape for a secondary or tertiary play - which is ultimately what led to our winner.

I think it's a fair position to take.

the weird thing was for at least two of the failed long throws, the hungarian player defended it really poorly and basically did the job you'd want an irish player to do, where their header flicked it on into the box

[Eirambler]

You wouldn't blame Heimir if he was having a little chuckle at Stephen Bradley's expense.this evening, that has been quite the self-inflicted humiliation by Bradley up in Iceland this week.

[Fixer82]

Bradley making himself look like a clown with his latest comments

[rebelmusic]

Why on earth would it be a bad idea to have a LOI camp? I really don't understand Bradley at all..he's like the Eamonn Dunphy of Irish managers...

[D24Saint]

Why on earth would it be a bad idea to have a LOI camp? I really don't understand Bradley at all..he's like the Eamonn Dunphy of Irish managers...

Its a good idea but not in January in the middle of pre season preparations.

[Buckett]

It'll be the only time that Rovers and Shels players will have an opportunity to rest before starting back into a new season. Bradley was annoyed that nobody mentioned it to Rovers or Shels or any other manager first and just told the media instead.
I'm with Bradley on this one.

[Nesta99]

They'd be going on camp to have a look, play small sided games, do some tactical work and training 11v11, they're not off on an ultratriathlon bootcamp! If associations asked clubs for permission to take their players for international camps or games every one would refuse!

[Buckett]

Clubs only have to release players for international windows, so they are within their rights to refuse a random training camp in January

[Eirambler]

It'll be the only time that Rovers and Shels players will have an opportunity to rest before starting back into a new season. Bradley was annoyed that nobody mentioned it to Rovers or Shels or any other manager first and just told the media instead.
I'm with Bradley on this one.

Leaving aside his nonsensical argument against the training camp proposal, the fact that he dealt with his unhappiness about Heimir talking about it to the media by running straight to the media himself was the icing on the cake for me.

And then to top it off his team were beaten up in, of all places, Iceland. :smile2:

[geysir]

What's up with this 'humiliation' in Iceland nonsense, that's the 3rd time in a row that Breidablik have deservedly beaten SR. Well perhaps the manner of the wind assisted 3rd goal was rubbing it in :)

From the little of what I heard about this mooted training camp it does sound flaky and with very questionable benefit to all involved, LOI clubs/players/ senior squad. For years now the Iceland FA have arranged for a senior squad to participate in 2 game friendly tournaments in distant warmer parts (Turkey, USA, SE Asia etc) in early to mid january. Usually the squad has about a 50/50 blend of the best local league players and a selection of what's available from out of season Nordic leagues. The local players not only get a bit of cash, get a chance to be noticed and can get capped at senior level. I don't know about the attitude of those involved clubs but would an out of season club prevent an aspiring player from attending?

[Nesta99]

Clubs only have to release players for international windows, so they are within their rights to refuse a random training camp in January

Would you refue a player to join a camp when out of season. At the very least the players will have ambition and want to go and impress. How is it that we want LoI to get recognition and then dismiss it when its mooted. Now not all camps are equal, maybe not having LoI called up to a full camp can be dismissed as token but we do have to start somewhere. As a player, if I was capped in a full interational but as a LoI only development squad Id take it and Im sure most would. We may even get a few lads that cut it in way we set up even if its strength in depth. We know for years that we wouldnt be able to rely on British clubs developing our players, we know that LoI will have to have an ongoing and growing role in player development and pathways. We want to retrieve players cut loose from top club academies as kids and keep them in the game. Ths sort of thing helps where players can see options that are not 5th or 6th tier England.

Itsnot new, we had LoI X1 sides train and play the Ireland side under Charlton, league sides have toured, Olympics and B caps. Regardless a few days away from the drudgery of preseason wont do any harm. Bradley is entitled to his opinion but when he was playing I doubt he would have turned down the chance of being involved in such a camp - pure curiosity, different perspectives and analysis, s+c and analytics insights, seeing the rate at which physical and psychological performance needs to be, taking on board instruction etc. It might bore them...

[Buckett]

Rovers and Shelbourne will play their last game of this season on December 18th, seven weeks later the new season begins. I'd be telling the FAI to shove their Ireland B team training camp

[ontheotherhand]

Whatever about the value of a training camp and the timing of it, not briefing the league or managers about the idea is another clumsy move by HH. Comes across well but he really needs to pay more attention to what he says. Bradleys response was a bit OTT for me but he's right to say something. Be interesting to see what O'Brien has to say. He'll have time to think about his response and be a bit more diplomatic.

A friendly would've probably made more sense, but even then you'd want to be talking to the clubs involved. Preseason has come a long way from a few friendlies and wind sprints. For Rovers and Shels every day will be carefully planned given the short turnaround time. We saw how badly the wrong workload can affect things when Shels took the title last season.

Good craic having a league manager challenge the national team manager all the same. It's good for the overall picture in the long run.

[Nesta99]

Yeah cause thats a regular headache for LoI clubs playing in to December. Wait til its happened 4 or 5 years and maybe not just champions practically parachuting in when they have a half decent seeding. It was more a question to HH rather than a formal we're telling everyone now publically. I doubt there would be no contact with clubs considering clubs need to be notified. Which would people rather Trap saying there is no league in Ireland or Halgrimmson saying he wants a domestic based international camp to assess possibilities?

Last year after Rovers Conference group performance you could argue that players merited serious consideration for a full camp call up and Bradley saying so is backed by performance. This season its a different picture, underwhelming against similar/lower seeded sides. Pick your battles, how and when also. Kind of fits the profile of a manager deflecting attention away from results/performance, if Bradley is calculated in his response for this reason then he really is maturing as a manager. I just dont think that is his reasoning but..

[ontheotherhand]

Yeah cause thats a regular headache for LoI clubs playing in to December. Wait til its happened 4 or 5 years and maybe not just champions practically parachuting in when they have a half decent seeding. It was more a question to HH rather than a formal we're telling everyone now publically. I doubt there would be no contact with clubs considering clubs need to be notified. Which would people rather Trap saying there is no league in Ireland or Halgrimmson saying he wants a domestic based international camp to assess possibilities?

Last year after Rovers Conference group performance you could argue that players merited serious consideration for a full camp call up and Bradley saying so is backed by performance. This season its a different picture, underwhelming against similar/lower seeded sides. Pick your battles, how and when also. Kind of fits the profile of a manager deflecting attention away from results/performance, if Bradley is calculated in his response for this reason then he really is maturing as a manager. I just dont think that is his reasoning but..

Not sure what you're getting at. It doesn't matter if it's a regular occurrence. It's the reality this season.

It doesn't matter if clubs would have been notified, they should have been consulted before it was brought to the media. It's very basic stuff Nesta. Even if it was a good idea, you don't just casually bring it up in the media without doing the background work.

Rovers didn't parachute in. We got there the hard way, beating a Portuguese team on the way. Not sure why it would matter either way tho. We want our teams playing into December.