Paul McShane

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not blind to Elliott's injury record, but I think if a young English lad did what Elliott did 2 years ago Premiership clubs would pay an arm and a leg for him.

I'd like to hear what the Sunderland watchers (the old ones like Zinedine) think of Elliott. I saw him once last year - at Loftus Road against QPR - and he worked his socks off out of position on the right & was arguably Sunderland's best player, behind Leadbitter anyway.

[SunderlandBohs]

Elliott wasn't our best player last year. I can think of at least 6 players who were better. But the previous 2 season was by far our best player along with Deano. Even this season when he was fit he showed he good he was. Chipping in with a few vital goals. But that's the lads problem. He can never get a run of games because he always seems to pick up injuries to often.

[OwlsFan]

Elliott wasn't our best player last year. I can think of at least 6 players who were better. But the previous 2 season was by far our best player along with Deano. Even this season when he was fit he showed he good he was. Chipping in with a few vital goals. But that's the lads problem. He can never get a run of games because he always seems to pick up injuries to often.


ANother problem is that he is a midget. Not too many major vertically challenged forwards succeed (Maradona apart) at the top level.

[SunderlandBohs]

ANother problem is that he is a midget. Not too many major vertically challenged forwards succeed (Maradona apart) at the top level.
True:)! Over looked that part!

[DmanDmythDledge]

I agree! When Sleeves is fully fit he's top class. The reason one worth £6m & the other is worth £1m is because one is English the other isn't. If Keane is to pay big money on a forward I'd rather it was Doyle. Doyle is only valued at £8m. That's a bargain for proven prem striker!
The reason is that he is injury prone and hasn't been playing regular football recently.

[SunderlandBohs]

The reason is that he is injury prone and hasn't been playing regular football recently.
That's the main. I haven't gone away from that. My point is when Elliott is fully fit he is just as good as Nugent. Either is worth £6m, far from it. But if Sleeves can get fit & stay injury free he can be a bargain at £1m. Any this is Paul McShane's thread not Elliott's.

[Stuttgart88]

A midget who scored 16 goals in 29 starts in his first season, many of them crucial, not the 4th or 5th goal in facile wins.

Those 16 goals included goals of all types, distance, poachers' tap ins, headers, 1-on-1s, the lot. In fact he may be a shortarse but he can head a ball. Robbie take note.

Sunderlandbohs, there was a crucial game late in the 2004/5 season (Ipswich away?) where Sunderland were 2-1 down late on. Do you remember?

A rightsided midfielder sent a deep ball to the back post to Deane (I think). I was watching Elliott, he sprinted 25 yards to the other post. Lo & behold Deane headed the ball into space across the goal where Elliott headed it in to equalise. They went on to win. That was pure goalscorer's instinct. It looked like a tap in but there was far more to it than that.

If fit & if trusted, he'll score goals for anyone. I'll post FIFA's description of him after UAE 2003 again if anyone wants.eirebhoy had Richie Patridge & I'll be singing Elliott's praise for a long time to come.

[tetsujin1979]

Sunderlandbohs, there was a crucial game late in the 2004/5 season (Ipswich away?) where Sunderland were 2-1 down late on. Do you remember?

A rightsided midfielder sent a deep ball to the back post to Deane (I think). I was watching Elliott, he sprinted 25 yards to the other post. Lo & behold Deane headed the ball into space across the goal where Elliott headed it in to equalise. They went on to win. That was pure goalscorer's instinct. It looked like a tap in but there was far more to it than that.
Was it this game - http://www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=450008
Finished 2-2, Ipswich went 1-0 up, only for Elliott to equalise minutes later. Robinson then put them 2-1 up, and Darren Bent equalised late on for Ipswich

[DmanDmythDledge]

That's the main. I haven't gone away from that. My point is when Elliott is fully fit he is just as good as Nugent. Either is worth £6m, far from it. But if Sleeves can get fit & stay injury free he can be a bargain at £1m.
I agree that neither is worth £6m. Nugent's price has gone up because a number of clubs are after him.

[eirebhoy]

The last time I saw Elliott play he was the best player on the pitch. Against Southampton. Think he went off injured at half time though.

[Stuttgart88]

Was it this game - http://www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=450008
Finished 2-2, Ipswich went 1-0 up, only for Elliott to equalise minutes later. Robinson then put them 2-1 up, and Darren Bent equalised late on for Ipswich
I think that's the one.

[RogerMilla]

from watching the rte commentary on the last few games i think johnny giles really rates mcshane , as a player and as a fellow hard man !

[SunderlandBohs]

[quote=Stuttgart88;713177]


Sunderlandbohs, there was a crucial game late in the 2004/5 season (Ipswich away?) where Sunderland were 2-1 down late on. Do you remember?

I remember it well. I was at it:D! He came on for Chris Brown along with Brian Deane. He also had a hand in the 2nd for Robinson if I'm not mistaken. He scored 2 crackers against newcastle & man utd if anyone can remember. The lad has still got a lot to offer.

[tetsujin1979]

He scored 2 crackers against newcastle & man utd if anyone can remember. The lad has still got a lot to offer.
Newcastle goal:
Some run to set it up too
Ld9Jknb4wnE

[SunderlandBohs]

Had a great chance in that game towards the end when lobbed Given but hit the cross bar. Reports in Sunderland suggest McShane could be a Sunderland player by Monday. Thats the word among the locals. Kevin Moran was in one of the morning papers saying if he moves McShane will become a key player for Ireland for many years to come.

[Stuttgart88]

Had a great chance in that game towards the end when lobbed Given but hit the cross bar. I remember that, I was disappointed he didn't score. I think he also had a great chance of a second against Man U, but Van Der Saar blocked a shot from close range, or maybe he put it just wide, on the turn.

In the Italy friendly he made space for himself brilliantly, losing his marker and placing a half-volley across the goal which was well saved by Buffon. Lesser keepers would have been beaten. His goal in Cyprus looked easy enough but that turn and half volley was actually technically very difficult. Again, many would have fluffed it or failed to connect.

[OwlsFan]

A midget who scored 16 goals in 29 starts in his first season, many of them crucial, not the 4th or 5th goal in facile wins.
.


Midgets can do well in the Championship where their pace will win out. In the Premiership and other top league they come up against equally pacey defenders and that leaves them where if they don't have the physique or extra special technical ability?

Back to the Championship I am afraid like Connolly and others.

[Stuttgart88]

I accept all your points, but Elliott did OK in the Premiership at the start. Michael Owen, Defoe, Keane all do OK. Elliott has great positioning. Whether that's enough I don't know.

[Stuttgart88]

Continuing to digress from McShane: Celtic on verge of signing top scorer in UEFA U21 Championships for £400k. Nugent, with no goals (?) in same tornament, is £6 million.

[cheifo]

Elliot had fantastic potential but missed two seasons of development at a crucial stage,Whether this seriously hinders his progress remains to be seen.
Shame because he is talented.I would be a little hesitant in going ott about McShane.He has a lot of attributes but it could take a couple of years for him
to find his worth.

[irishfan86]

Continuing to digress from McShane: Celtic on verge of signing top scorer in UEFA U21 Championships for £400k. Nugent, with no goals (?) in same tornament, is £6 million.

Lampard didn't get any goals for England in the WC, would you call him ****?

[tetsujin1979]

Lampard didn't get any goals for England in the WC, would you call him ****?
I would, but for a whole lot of other reasons than not scoring in the World Cup

<EDIT>

Actually I wouldn't call him **** but I would call him severely over-rated and (at best) a luxury for most teams

[gustavo]

Also Lampard isnt a striker. but has proven that he can score goals when placed in the riight situations

[Stuttgart88]

Lampard didn't get any goals for England in the WC, would you call him ****?I wouldn't call him a striker.

[co. down green]

Looks like McShane is heading to Wearside

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/albion/tm_headline=black-cats-close-in-on-albion-duo&method=full&objectid=19379852&siteid=50002-name_page.html

[tetsujin1979]

More here in today's Indo: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/black-cats-close-in-on-mcshane-swoop-892782.html

[dr_peepee]

Could be a double bonus if Foley's move to WBA comes through

[tetsujin1979]

Could be a double bonus if Foley's move to WBA comes through
Some more on that here: http://www.fansfc.com/frontpage/frontpagenews.asp?newsid=169197
Could make sense if McShane does move to Sunderland, he plays right back for WBA, so there'll be an opening in defence.

[EalingGreen]

Looks like McShane is heading to Wearside

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/albion/tm_headline=black-cats-close-in-on-albion-duo&method=full&objectid=19379852&siteid=50002-name_page.html

Much less likely now, I'd say. There was a report on Wednesday that Keane had lost patience with WBA for messing him around over McShane and Robinson.

Now it looks as if he's turned to Chris Baird:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/6278052.stm

It's possible that he wants Baird to play right back instead of Robinson, since Chris has played there several times (he can even fill in as defensive midfield holding player, if need be).

However, his natural position is centre back, where he was Saints POTY last season.

[RogerMilla]

baird looks a very solid player , will be a pity if mcshane is not playing premiership this season.

[Kivlehan]

baird looks a very solid player , will be a pity if mcshane is not playing premiership this season.

Baird and McShane aren't necessarily mutually exclusive acquisitions. Bray People had an article yesterday saying McShane is close to signing with Sunderland but the portion of the deal involving other players (Elliot/Robinson) may not be happening. Not sure if they are reporting old news or have their own sources though. Keane's clearly looking for two more defenders at a minimum though.

http://www.braypeople.ie/sport/other-sports/wicklow-star-on-verge-of-joining-roy-keanes-outfit-mcshane-set-for-sunderland-switch-993880.html

[zinedineontour]

Yeah Mc Shane has passed medical and just agreeing fee with brom at moment as initially we were buying robinson and mc shane but robinson failed medical. So Mc Shane fee is now to be agreed.

[SunderlandBohs]

Reports in Sunderland said a player failed a medical last week. It's believed to be McShane. A hip injury. Although its said that the deal isnt dead yet. Might be why Keane has moved for Baird. Also Sunderland have linked with a Danish international whose a centre half as well. This could be a problem for McShane in the long term.

[Kivlehan]

I recall the articles I read on it saying that Sunderland still wanted McShane, but at a reduced fee.

[dr_peepee]

Some on the message boards say it was Robinson that failed the medical...

[DmanDmythDledge]

Both apparantly (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/acrossthewater/irish_soccer_detail.asp?newsid=28404).

[geysir]

I don't like the sound of that news. McShane injured his hip serious enough before he went to Brighton and the reports were that he was playing through a hip injury at the end of last season with West Brom.

[paul_oshea]

what exactly goes into a medical? i mean what tests do they do or is it just previous examinations/injuries that are used as a basis? how did he get to west brom without any difficulty was this a free transfer? is a medical really just a way of lowering the fee for a player?

doesn't look good anyway its almost 2 weeks now and heard nothing since....

[Dodge]

is a medical really just a way of lowering the fee for a player?
No, plenty of players have had moves scuppered when they failed medicals (Hartson to Rangers, Gabi Milito to Real Madrid, Huth to Middlesbrough)

I presume they'd check heart, lungs, liver etc as well as blood and urine tests. Genreal fitness probably tested too

[paul_oshea]

ya so a general exam basically that any individual gets bi-annually with a private healthcare company. I just cant really figure out how they would find problems with someones hip unless they were to look at medical records and make assumptions.....you cant predict into the future if a previous injury will cause problems in 2, 3 5 or 10 years...

i know failed medicals have prevented player transfers before I just wondered how much they can really gauge from one.

[tetsujin1979]

Then there's the Real Madrid "can you lift this pen and sign your name" medical, Owen, Woodgate, etc all passed

[geysir]

The report on 11 a side says McShane has a hip problem, That's about 2 years now since it started, he was out for 2 months at one stage.
It's possible that he was okay for the physical when he signed for West Brom. He aggravated the hip in Feb or March but kept on playing.
It doesn't sound good failing a physical on the hip now. I suppose we will hear more soon. Maybe Newcastle will put in a bid.

[tetsujin1979]

Maybe Newcastle will put in a bid.
Villa were reportedly interested in him last season, but that seems to have cooled off now

[geysir]

Newcastle's physical can't involve very much, I thought that might have been his best bet :)
Anyway I'd regard a chronic injury situation more of a barrier to his progress than which club he plays for.

[paul_oshea]

didnt everyone say roy keane had a "hip problem" as well and that it wouldlimit his playing.....its all a load of ******.

Having said that something like a hip problem so young doesnt sound too good, it something that will probably effect him for ages. what exactly is it, is one leg longer than the other :D

[Calcio Jack]

didnt everyone say roy keane had a "hip problem" as well and that it wouldlimit his playing.....its all a load of ******.

Having said that something like a hip problem so young doesnt sound too good, it something that will probably effect him for ages. what exactly is it, is one leg longer than the other :D


Keane's hip problem forced him to retire !!

McShanes has a problem with the hip joint... it could be the start of an arthritis problem, bascically first signs of erosion of the cartilage has been detected... depending on how slow/fast that progresses could ultimatley lead to him requiring a hip replacement.... hopefully it won't impede him for good number of years.

[Stuttgart88]

Just back from holidays to read about McShane, Garvan, rumours about Stokes...

WTF is going on?

Richard Sadlier, Thomas Butler, Thornton. When will it bloody end?

[paul_oshea]

Keane's hip problem forced him to retire !!

hmmm, im not so sure about that ;)

the problem with that is its usually down to one leg being slightly longer than the other calcio jack, at least in the case of arthiritis and cartilage damage, the hip doesnt move in normal circular motion, if that is the case then it is quite serious.

[paul_oshea]

i assume this is as good as over now:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2007/0717/sunderland.html

pity i would have loved to have seen mcshane in the premiership - this year.

[DmanDmythDledge]

i assume this is as good as over now:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2007/0717/sunderland.html

pity i would have loved to have seen mcshane in the premiership - this year.
That transfer wouldn't have much bearing on McShane- Baines is a left back.