Republic of Ireland V Netherlands - Sunday, 11th September 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

[Diggs246]

I'd be interested to see a list of teams who have a worse competitive international record then us since Stephen took over. I fear it will tell a tale

[pineapple stu]

I'd be interested to see a list of teams who have a worse competitive international record then us since Stephen took over. I fear it will tell a tale
Here we go.


Country P W D L F A GD Pts
Denmark 28 20 2 6 59 20 39 62
Scotland 27 19 4 4 45 17 28 61
Netherlands 26 18 5 3 62 23 39 59
Portugal 25 17 4 4 55 13 42 55
Belgium 24 17 4 3 60 21 39 55
France 25 16 6 3 46 15 31 54
England 27 15 7 5 66 19 47 52
Turkey 27 14 8 5 59 35 24 50
Serbia 25 14 7 4 49 25 24 49
Hungary 26 14 6 6 41 23 18 48
Spain 23 14 5 4 46 16 30 47
Slovenia 28 13 8 7 40 29 11 47
Croatia 25 14 4 7 46 27 19 46
Greece 25 13 7 5 34 16 18 46
Switzerland 25 12 8 5 44 24 20 44
Germany 22 12 7 3 57 26 31 43
Italy 23 11 10 2 32 14 18 43
Finland 26 13 4 9 36 25 11 43
Austria 26 13 4 9 43 36 7 43
Norway 26 12 6 8 39 29 10 42
Albania 25 12 5 8 32 25 7 41
Romania 27 11 8 8 34 29 5 41
Poland 27 12 4 11 48 37 11 40
Montenegro 27 11 7 9 35 28 7 40
Israel 25 11 7 7 44 41 3 40
Luxembourg 25 12 4 9 31 37 -6 40
North Macedonia 26 10 8 8 44 38 6 38
Czech Republic 24 11 5 8 35 29 6 38
Wales 24 10 6 8 31 28 3 36
Ukraine 24 9 9 6 31 30 1 36
Slovakia 27 9 8 10 32 28 4 35
Georgia 24 9 7 8 32 32 0 34
Armenia 26 9 6 11 30 49 -19 33
Kazakhstan 26 9 5 12 27 40 -13 32
Russia 16 9 3 4 28 18 10 30
Latvia 26 7 8 11 34 34 0 29
Sweden 24 9 1 14 34 35 -1 28
Bosnia and Herz 25 6 8 11 25 39 -14 26
Faroe Islands 27 6 7 14 25 48 -23 25
Kosovo 25 5 8 12 25 35 -10 23
Moldova 27 6 5 16 21 52 -31 23
Ireland 25 5 7 13 25 26 -1 22
Bulgaria 25 4 9 12 21 37 -16 21
Estonia 22 5 5 12 26 43 -17 20
Belarus 25 5 5 15 24 49 -25 20
Malta 24 5 5 14 23 49 -26 20
Northern Irl 26 4 7 15 21 36 -15 19
Azerbaijan 24 4 6 14 16 37 -21 18
Andorra 27 4 6 17 18 49 -31 18
Iceland 25 3 7 15 30 50 -20 16
Lithuania 25 3 5 17 15 50 -35 14
Cyprus 26 3 5 18 12 54 -42 14
Gibraltar 25 2 3 20 10 79 -69 9
Liechtenstein 25 1 3 21 7 63 -56 6
San Marino 24 0 2 22 1 79 -78 2

Obviously the Nations League skews that - we're getting harder opposition than, say, the Faroes, who are ranked ahead of us by being in League D twice (and winning it once). Our goal difference is way out of synch with those around us for that reason - and, as we know, we've generally been quite competitive in our games. France are the only side to beat us by more than one goal in all this lot.

Or you could take out the Nations League and look at just Euro/World Cup qualifiers, because that's more balanced overall. It lifts us from 42nd to 37th. I honestly thought it'd have done more for us than that. Of course, we've been unlucky in getting France as a second seed, and we've played them twice in our five group games to date here. But there's still a weird gap between Luxembourg (19 points) and Bosnia (13), so even if we win both our games next month, we won't be climbing more than two places.


Country P W D L F A GD Pts
Denmark 16 13 1 2 42 8 34 40
England 15 12 3 0 55 5 50 39
Scotland 15 12 2 1 29 8 21 38
France 13 10 3 0 29 3 26 33
Netherlands 14 10 2 2 41 13 28 32
Portugal 13 10 2 1 32 6 26 32
Turkey 15 9 4 2 35 22 13 31
Belgium 12 9 3 0 33 7 26 30
Croatia 13 9 3 1 29 5 24 30
Serbia 13 9 3 1 27 13 14 30
Switzerland 13 8 5 0 29 7 22 29
Albania 15 9 1 5 20 15 5 28
Germany 10 9 0 1 36 4 32 27
Hungary 14 8 3 3 26 14 12 27
Slovenia 16 8 3 5 26 18 8 27
Poland 15 8 2 5 36 19 17 26
Austria 14 8 2 4 28 20 8 26
Romania 15 7 5 3 20 12 8 26
Spain 11 8 1 2 25 8 17 25
Slovakia 15 6 6 3 22 12 10 24
Israel 15 7 3 5 29 28 1 24
Finland 14 7 2 5 21 14 7 23
Russia 10 7 1 2 19 6 13 22
Czech Republic 12 6 4 2 21 11 10 22
North Macedonia 14 6 4 4 28 23 5 22
Norway 14 6 4 4 20 15 5 22
Sweden 12 7 0 5 22 11 11 21
Italy 11 5 5 1 17 5 12 20
Montenegro 15 5 5 5 19 20 -1 20
Greece 13 5 4 4 18 13 5 19
Ukraine 12 4 7 1 16 13 3 19
Wales 12 5 4 3 18 16 2 19
Armenia 14 5 4 5 17 26 -9 19
Luxembourg 13 6 1 6 15 25 -10 19
Kazakhstan 14 4 3 7 14 25 -11 15
Bosnia and Herz 13 3 4 6 14 20 -6 13
Ireland 13 3 3 7 16 15 1 12
Northern Irl 14 3 3 8 10 15 -5 12
Iceland 15 3 3 9 21 27 -6 12
Georgia 12 3 2 7 10 23 -13 11
Bulgaria 13 2 4 7 9 22 -13 10
Latvia 14 2 3 9 14 25 -11 9
Kosovo 13 1 6 6 10 21 -11 9
Moldova 15 2 3 10 10 35 -25 9
Andorra 15 2 2 11 11 31 -20 8
Belarus 13 2 1 10 11 34 -23 7
Estonia 12 1 2 9 11 32 -21 5
Lithuania 13 1 2 10 8 29 -21 5
Faroe Islands 15 1 2 12 9 33 -24 5
Cyprus 14 1 2 11 6 32 -26 5
Malta 14 1 2 11 10 39 -29 5
Azerbaijan 12 0 2 10 7 29 -22 2
Liechtenstein 15 0 1 14 3 50 -47 1
Gibraltar 15 0 0 15 4 60 -56 0
San Marino 16 0 0 16 1 67 -66 0

[passinginterest]

I think the nail has been hit on the head a few times here. It's been an issue throughout his career and it's cruelly exposed at international level, Kenny hates changing the starting shape and team and leaves it too late to make adjustments. They play such a high tempo and it's great to a point, but in both games they were flogged at half time and that contributes to the slow restarts. They get a bit of a second wind then, but by 55 minutes there's always two or three dead on their feet, yet he waits and waits to change it. Similarly, everyone spotted the Dutch change in shape at half time. Immediately they were causing problems and retaining the ball much more comfortably, but it wasn't until they scored that we made the adjustment. Too little too late. I have some admiration for throwing on so many attacking players and trying to go for it, but it was also clear that Idah and Ogbene were wrecked, so it might have been more effective to just replace them.

I do still have some sympathy for Kenny, I've no doubt the majority of the players are still playing for him. He's brought through a lot of players. I know there's some criticism that the style hasn't changed that much, but I think it really has, there was some lovely passing in good areas and we created good overlaps etc. I don't think we could have imagined having more possession and more passes completed (https://www.uefa.com/european-qualifiers/match/2036407--republic-of-ireland-vs-netherlands/statistics/) against the Dutch under any of the recent managers. More attempts, more attacks, more corners, I suppose that's where the loss of Ferguson is so badly felt, for all the work of Idah and Ogbene (and to be fair the caused a few nightmares for the Dutch) the final touch and finish just wasn't at the top level needed to capitalise.

Sadly, it's another loss though, and Hamman has a point that conspiring to lose from good positions and good starts is a sign of a weakness in the team. That's the main issue Kenny hasn't resolved, and he's run out of rope now. I think we'd all be shocked if he's kept on beyond the end of the qualifiers (he won't walk so assume he'll be kept on for financial reasons). Would a convincing win against Greece at home change anything? Seven points from the last three games? It might, but it's hard to imagine it happening, and it's hard to see Kenny winning the majority back over regardless. He got great support, he made some much needed improvements, the back room team, match prep etc. all seems to be handled very well, but he hasn't got the all important results. I still suspect that the next manager will benefit hugely from the work Kenny has done. Who that is will be crucial, they need to have the same belief Kenny has in the players, but bring something a bit more clinical in seeing games out and responding to issues. Just having a bit more luck with injuries and player availability might go a long way.

The intensity of the atmosphere was incredible in the early stages too, but once the Dutch scored, you could almost feel the whole crowd thinking "here we go again", the belief in Kenny was clearly gone. Unlike what we've seen in the past with the crowd really rallying, I thought it was oddly quiet for long spells in the second half, even when we were causing them problems. Possibly the most damning indictment of them all.

[Diggs246]

Here we go.


Country P W D L F A GD Pts
Denmark 28 20 2 6 59 20 39 62
Scotland 27 19 4 4 45 17 28 61
Netherlands 26 18 5 3 62 23 39 59
Portugal 25 17 4 4 55 13 42 55
Belgium 24 17 4 3 60 21 39 55
France 25 16 6 3 46 15 31 54
England 27 15 7 5 66 19 47 52
Turkey 27 14 8 5 59 35 24 50
Serbia 25 14 7 4 49 25 24 49
Hungary 26 14 6 6 41 23 18 48
Spain 23 14 5 4 46 16 30 47
Slovenia 28 13 8 7 40 29 11 47
Croatia 25 14 4 7 46 27 19 46
Greece 25 13 7 5 34 16 18 46
Switzerland 25 12 8 5 44 24 20 44
Germany 22 12 7 3 57 26 31 43
Italy 23 11 10 2 32 14 18 43
Finland 26 13 4 9 36 25 11 43
Austria 26 13 4 9 43 36 7 43
Norway 26 12 6 8 39 29 10 42
Albania 25 12 5 8 32 25 7 41
Romania 27 11 8 8 34 29 5 41
Poland 27 12 4 11 48 37 11 40
Montenegro 27 11 7 9 35 28 7 40
Israel 25 11 7 7 44 41 3 40
Luxembourg 25 12 4 9 31 37 -6 40
North Macedonia 26 10 8 8 44 38 6 38
Czech Republic 24 11 5 8 35 29 6 38
Wales 24 10 6 8 31 28 3 36
Ukraine 24 9 9 6 31 30 1 36
Slovakia 27 9 8 10 32 28 4 35
Georgia 24 9 7 8 32 32 0 34
Armenia 26 9 6 11 30 49 -19 33
Kazakhstan 26 9 5 12 27 40 -13 32
Russia 16 9 3 4 28 18 10 30
Latvia 26 7 8 11 34 34 0 29
Sweden 24 9 1 14 34 35 -1 28
Bosnia and Herz 25 6 8 11 25 39 -14 26
Faroe Islands 27 6 7 14 25 48 -23 25
Kosovo 25 5 8 12 25 35 -10 23
Moldova 27 6 5 16 21 52 -31 23
Ireland 25 5 7 13 25 26 -1 22
Bulgaria 25 4 9 12 21 37 -16 21
Estonia 22 5 5 12 26 43 -17 20
Belarus 25 5 5 15 24 49 -25 20
Malta 24 5 5 14 23 49 -26 20
Northern Irl 26 4 7 15 21 36 -15 19
Azerbaijan 24 4 6 14 16 37 -21 18
Andorra 27 4 6 17 18 49 -31 18
Iceland 25 3 7 15 30 50 -20 16
Lithuania 25 3 5 17 15 50 -35 14
Cyprus 26 3 5 18 12 54 -42 14
Gibraltar 25 2 3 20 10 79 -69 9
Liechtenstein 25 1 3 21 7 63 -56 6
San Marino 24 0 2 22 1 79 -78 2

Obviously the Nations League skews that - we're getting harder opposition than, say, the Faroes, who are ranked ahead of us by being in League D twice (and winning it once). Our goal difference is way out of synch with those around us for that reason - and, as we know, we've generally been quite competitive in our games. France are the only side to beat us by more than one goal in all this lot.

Or you could take out the Nations League and look at just Euro/World Cup qualifiers, because that's more balanced overall. It lifts us from 42nd to 37th. I honestly thought it'd have done more for us than that. Of course, we've been unlucky in getting France as a second seed, and we've played them twice in our five group games to date here. But there's still a weird gap between Luxembourg (19 points) and Bosnia (13), so even if we win both our games next month, we won't be climbing more than two places.


Country P W D L F A GD Pts
Denmark 16 13 1 2 42 8 34 40
England 15 12 3 0 55 5 50 39
Scotland 15 12 2 1 29 8 21 38
France 13 10 3 0 29 3 26 33
Netherlands 14 10 2 2 41 13 28 32
Portugal 13 10 2 1 32 6 26 32
Turkey 15 9 4 2 35 22 13 31
Belgium 12 9 3 0 33 7 26 30
Croatia 13 9 3 1 29 5 24 30
Serbia 13 9 3 1 27 13 14 30
Switzerland 13 8 5 0 29 7 22 29
Albania 15 9 1 5 20 15 5 28
Germany 10 9 0 1 36 4 32 27
Hungary 14 8 3 3 26 14 12 27
Slovenia 16 8 3 5 26 18 8 27
Poland 15 8 2 5 36 19 17 26
Austria 14 8 2 4 28 20 8 26
Romania 15 7 5 3 20 12 8 26
Spain 11 8 1 2 25 8 17 25
Slovakia 15 6 6 3 22 12 10 24
Israel 15 7 3 5 29 28 1 24
Finland 14 7 2 5 21 14 7 23
Russia 10 7 1 2 19 6 13 22
Czech Republic 12 6 4 2 21 11 10 22
North Macedonia 14 6 4 4 28 23 5 22
Norway 14 6 4 4 20 15 5 22
Sweden 12 7 0 5 22 11 11 21
Italy 11 5 5 1 17 5 12 20
Montenegro 15 5 5 5 19 20 -1 20
Greece 13 5 4 4 18 13 5 19
Ukraine 12 4 7 1 16 13 3 19
Wales 12 5 4 3 18 16 2 19
Armenia 14 5 4 5 17 26 -9 19
Luxembourg 13 6 1 6 15 25 -10 19
Kazakhstan 14 4 3 7 14 25 -11 15
Bosnia and Herz 13 3 4 6 14 20 -6 13
Ireland 13 3 3 7 16 15 1 12
Northern Irl 14 3 3 8 10 15 -5 12
Iceland 15 3 3 9 21 27 -6 12
Georgia 12 3 2 7 10 23 -13 11
Bulgaria 13 2 4 7 9 22 -13 10
Latvia 14 2 3 9 14 25 -11 9
Kosovo 13 1 6 6 10 21 -11 9
Moldova 15 2 3 10 10 35 -25 9
Andorra 15 2 2 11 11 31 -20 8
Belarus 13 2 1 10 11 34 -23 7
Estonia 12 1 2 9 11 32 -21 5
Lithuania 13 1 2 10 8 29 -21 5
Faroe Islands 15 1 2 12 9 33 -24 5
Cyprus 14 1 2 11 6 32 -26 5
Malta 14 1 2 11 10 39 -29 5
Azerbaijan 12 0 2 10 7 29 -22 2
Liechtenstein 15 0 1 14 3 50 -47 1
Gibraltar 15 0 0 15 4 60 -56 0
San Marino 16 0 0 16 1 67 -66 0

That's brill
Thanks for that

[passinginterest]

Here we go.


Country P W D L F A GD Pts
Denmark 28 20 2 6 59 20 39 62
Scotland 27 19 4 4 45 17 28 61
Netherlands 26 18 5 3 62 23 39 59
Portugal 25 17 4 4 55 13 42 55
Belgium 24 17 4 3 60 21 39 55
France 25 16 6 3 46 15 31 54
England 27 15 7 5 66 19 47 52
Turkey 27 14 8 5 59 35 24 50
Serbia 25 14 7 4 49 25 24 49
Hungary 26 14 6 6 41 23 18 48
Spain 23 14 5 4 46 16 30 47
Slovenia 28 13 8 7 40 29 11 47
Croatia 25 14 4 7 46 27 19 46
Greece 25 13 7 5 34 16 18 46
Switzerland 25 12 8 5 44 24 20 44
Germany 22 12 7 3 57 26 31 43
Italy 23 11 10 2 32 14 18 43
Finland 26 13 4 9 36 25 11 43
Austria 26 13 4 9 43 36 7 43
Norway 26 12 6 8 39 29 10 42
Albania 25 12 5 8 32 25 7 41
Romania 27 11 8 8 34 29 5 41
Poland 27 12 4 11 48 37 11 40
Montenegro 27 11 7 9 35 28 7 40
Israel 25 11 7 7 44 41 3 40
Luxembourg 25 12 4 9 31 37 -6 40
North Macedonia 26 10 8 8 44 38 6 38
Czech Republic 24 11 5 8 35 29 6 38
Wales 24 10 6 8 31 28 3 36
Ukraine 24 9 9 6 31 30 1 36
Slovakia 27 9 8 10 32 28 4 35
Georgia 24 9 7 8 32 32 0 34
Armenia 26 9 6 11 30 49 -19 33
Kazakhstan 26 9 5 12 27 40 -13 32
Russia 16 9 3 4 28 18 10 30
Latvia 26 7 8 11 34 34 0 29
Sweden 24 9 1 14 34 35 -1 28
Bosnia and Herz 25 6 8 11 25 39 -14 26
Faroe Islands 27 6 7 14 25 48 -23 25
Kosovo 25 5 8 12 25 35 -10 23
Moldova 27 6 5 16 21 52 -31 23
Ireland 25 5 7 13 25 26 -1 22
Bulgaria 25 4 9 12 21 37 -16 21
Estonia 22 5 5 12 26 43 -17 20
Belarus 25 5 5 15 24 49 -25 20
Malta 24 5 5 14 23 49 -26 20
Northern Irl 26 4 7 15 21 36 -15 19
Azerbaijan 24 4 6 14 16 37 -21 18
Andorra 27 4 6 17 18 49 -31 18
Iceland 25 3 7 15 30 50 -20 16
Lithuania 25 3 5 17 15 50 -35 14
Cyprus 26 3 5 18 12 54 -42 14
Gibraltar 25 2 3 20 10 79 -69 9
Liechtenstein 25 1 3 21 7 63 -56 6
San Marino 24 0 2 22 1 79 -78 2

Obviously the Nations League skews that - we're getting harder opposition than, say, the Faroes, who are ranked ahead of us by being in League D twice (and winning it once). Our goal difference is way out of synch with those around us for that reason - and, as we know, we've generally been quite competitive in our games. France are the only side to beat us by more than one goal in all this lot.

Or you could take out the Nations League and look at just Euro/World Cup qualifiers, because that's more balanced overall. It lifts us from 42nd to 37th. I honestly thought it'd have done more for us than that. Of course, we've been unlucky in getting France as a second seed, and we've played them twice in our five group games to date here. But there's still a weird gap between Luxembourg (19 points) and Bosnia (13), so even if we win both our games next month, we won't be climbing more than two places.


Country P W D L F A GD Pts
Denmark 16 13 1 2 42 8 34 40
England 15 12 3 0 55 5 50 39
Scotland 15 12 2 1 29 8 21 38
France 13 10 3 0 29 3 26 33
Netherlands 14 10 2 2 41 13 28 32
Portugal 13 10 2 1 32 6 26 32
Turkey 15 9 4 2 35 22 13 31
Belgium 12 9 3 0 33 7 26 30
Croatia 13 9 3 1 29 5 24 30
Serbia 13 9 3 1 27 13 14 30
Switzerland 13 8 5 0 29 7 22 29
Albania 15 9 1 5 20 15 5 28
Germany 10 9 0 1 36 4 32 27
Hungary 14 8 3 3 26 14 12 27
Slovenia 16 8 3 5 26 18 8 27
Poland 15 8 2 5 36 19 17 26
Austria 14 8 2 4 28 20 8 26
Romania 15 7 5 3 20 12 8 26
Spain 11 8 1 2 25 8 17 25
Slovakia 15 6 6 3 22 12 10 24
Israel 15 7 3 5 29 28 1 24
Finland 14 7 2 5 21 14 7 23
Russia 10 7 1 2 19 6 13 22
Czech Republic 12 6 4 2 21 11 10 22
North Macedonia 14 6 4 4 28 23 5 22
Norway 14 6 4 4 20 15 5 22
Sweden 12 7 0 5 22 11 11 21
Italy 11 5 5 1 17 5 12 20
Montenegro 15 5 5 5 19 20 -1 20
Greece 13 5 4 4 18 13 5 19
Ukraine 12 4 7 1 16 13 3 19
Wales 12 5 4 3 18 16 2 19
Armenia 14 5 4 5 17 26 -9 19
Luxembourg 13 6 1 6 15 25 -10 19
Kazakhstan 14 4 3 7 14 25 -11 15
Bosnia and Herz 13 3 4 6 14 20 -6 13
Ireland 13 3 3 7 16 15 1 12
Northern Irl 14 3 3 8 10 15 -5 12
Iceland 15 3 3 9 21 27 -6 12
Georgia 12 3 2 7 10 23 -13 11
Bulgaria 13 2 4 7 9 22 -13 10
Latvia 14 2 3 9 14 25 -11 9
Kosovo 13 1 6 6 10 21 -11 9
Moldova 15 2 3 10 10 35 -25 9
Andorra 15 2 2 11 11 31 -20 8
Belarus 13 2 1 10 11 34 -23 7
Estonia 12 1 2 9 11 32 -21 5
Lithuania 13 1 2 10 8 29 -21 5
Faroe Islands 15 1 2 12 9 33 -24 5
Cyprus 14 1 2 11 6 32 -26 5
Malta 14 1 2 11 10 39 -29 5
Azerbaijan 12 0 2 10 7 29 -22 2
Liechtenstein 15 0 1 14 3 50 -47 1
Gibraltar 15 0 0 15 4 60 -56 0
San Marino 16 0 0 16 1 67 -66 0

Some really interesting stats. The goal difference really does show that we've been competitive, without managing to convert that to positive results. But, more interesting I suppose, is are there really that many teams doing better that we wouldn't expect to be? While the squad is getting stronger, I don't think there's too much argument that the first two years under Kenny was possibly the weakest squad we've ever had, a mix of lads who were past it, journeymen and kids. At least now those kids are getting experience, they're starting to play more for their clubs and they're playing at better levels for the most part. I'd expect to see more of the narrow defeats concerted to positive results, even in Kenny stays on, due to that improvement in the squad. The goal difference is the indicator that a significant improvement is probably not too far off.

[pineapple stu]

But, more interesting I suppose, is are there really that many teams doing better that we wouldn't expect to be?
The goal difference is the indicator that a significant improvement is probably not too far off.
The goal difference thing is positive alright - albeit that, say, France could/should have scored more last week, or Serbia were far superior to us than the 4-3 aggregate scoreline suggests, or Portugal weren't too worried about our game in Dublin because they had a huge game against Serbia coming up. But certainly we seem to defend reasonably well in those sort of games and yeah, with a decent forward (which we now might have) you could see us turn around some games. If we had Ferguson last night and had gone 2-0 up, say, would the Dutch have had an extra gear to still win? Maybe, but even then putting it up to the Dutch isn't a bad performance mostentimes. And we'd surely have turned other defeats into draws or even wins.

On teams that are maybe exceeding expectations - Scotland jump out. 11 competitive wins in a row is phenomenal. Albania, Slovenia, Montenegro and Luxembourg are well ahead of us too - they're small countries. I think their combined population is about the same as ours. Norway are struggling - they're a different team when Haaland is out, the same way we may well now be a different team without Ferguson. Greece - who I think we generally agree outplayed us in Athens - haven't got a great record. And that huge gap just above us is a worry too; we've work to do just to catch up to the lower end of the middle.

There's nobody below us you'd be surprised by - maybe Bulgaria, but we saw in the Nations League when we played them that they've been in decline for years now. A very poor side.

[Neish]

He could have a nice less intense job, 10 minutes drive from home as a DoF at Oriel Park!! Get back to some roots, rebuild confidence, have a remit to (re)build an entire club. Doesnt have to be involved in day to day fooball working with a manager he knows well and may be willing to work with a DoF. Well we can hope!!

Might be a job going in Ballybofey soon, would be a real test of his abilities

[Olé Olé]

I stand by my opinion from last couple of weeks that we no longer have the tools for a 3-5-2. We don't have the fit and/or capable wing backs for that position and with Duffy at the centre of it we also have an issue, compounded with Egan being shorn of confidence in a big way.

The Dutch identified this. Overloaded our left at half time. Scored via that side, exposing McClean, Egan and Duffy in the process. It was coming for the 10 minutes and I turned to the person beside me and asked is Kenny waiting for the Dutch to score before fixing this left hand side. He subbed McClean off a few minutes after the goal and Egan 10 minutes after that.

I'll give him a bye on the team selection if he had acted during the game when he should have but he didn't. And you can say we don't have the players in certain positions but we had Omobamidele and O'Shea on the bench - this is precisely where we had options and good options if we wanted to change it up. Two Premiership defenders, both fast and good on the ball, not incredibly powerful lads but would have coped better with Malen and Dumfries and nothing was done.

I thought Kenny got the midfield bang on - Browne was good until he tired, Knight was excellent, Cullen was improved on recent games - and he had little option up top but Idah and Ogbene.

But, I can't help but feeling he botched the selection and formation - which I would forgive - but he compounded it by not responding to Ronald Koeman saying at half time "these lads have a League Two left back and a defender beside him who is too rattled to control a ball or pass it forward".

And I thought Kenny knew that Manning wasn't the answer but he still put him in for McClean (those crosses, by the way, absolutely torturous watching those float into the keeper from Manning). I think he thinks McGrath is better than he is too and that was proved out when he came in. And he relied on this pairing to chase the game after we went down, whilst Omobamidele and O'Shea watched on.

[D24Saint]

On a human level it’s painful to watch him.. but that is just deflecting from the reality of how useless he is….. of course he’ll want to hang on but assume the FAI will now move him on ( there’s no cost to that so no excuse )

Had to turn the post match interview off it was so painful to watch. You can clearly see he is hurting and becomes incoherent. I feel for him but the tide has turned even the most loyal of his LOI diehards have to see that the time has come for change.

[Diggs246]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/stephen-kennys-days-as-ireland-manager-are-numbered-but-fai-board-is-split-on-when-to-make-a-change/a190622311.html

[Straightstory]

Had to turn the post match interview off it was so painful to watch. You can clearly see he is hurting and becomes incoherent. I feel for him but the tide has turned even the most loyal of his LOI diehards have to see that the time has come for change.

You'd have to fear for Kenny's future. A return to the League of Ireland would feel like a huge step down, but his record as Irish manager is so dreadful, it's hard to see anybody else wanting him. I was very pleased he got the job, but he's been an abject failure. A tragic figure in many ways; difficult to imagine where he goes from here.

[D24Saint]

You'd have to fear for Kenny's future. A return to the League of Ireland would feel like a huge step down, but his record as Irish manager is so dreadful, it's hard to see anybody else wanting him. I was very pleased he got the job, but he's been an abject failure. A tragic figure in many ways; difficult to imagine where he goes from here.

The only thing that would save face would be a job in the SPL or even League one. He has achieved a lot in the domestic game for his age and the international job came at a perfect time in his career. It’s all ended in tears but that’s life he will have to move on next year. He could always take an obscure international job.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I was just going to write, if he wants to try and salvage an international career he'll have to settle for something at a low seeding, ala Brian Kerr, but I have a feeling he'd prefer a club assignment somewhere. Maybe Dundalk again down the line, when/if it becomes available?

[tetsujin1979]

I think the nail has been hit on the head a few times here. It's been an issue throughout his career and it's cruelly exposed at international level, Kenny hates changing the starting shape and team and leaves it too late to make adjustments. They play such a high tempo and it's great to a point, but in both games they were flogged at half time and that contributes to the slow restarts. They get a bit of a second wind then, but by 55 minutes there's always two or three dead on their feet, yet he waits and waits to change it. Similarly, everyone spotted the Dutch change in shape at half time. Immediately they were causing problems and retaining the ball much more comfortably, but it wasn't until they scored that we made the adjustment. Too little too late. I have some admiration for throwing on so many attacking players and trying to go for it, but it was also clear that Idah and Ogbene were wrecked, so it might have been more effective to just replace them.
Manning came on at 63 minutes, eight minutes after the Dutch took the lead, but bringing him on for McClean was a like-for-like swap. A change in formation was needed, and he brought on a left wing back for a left wing back. McGrath and Smallbone came on for Egan and Browne at 74 minutes, that was the first indication he was trying something different

We finished the game with Ogbene, Idah, and Armstrong on the pitch, It reminded me a little of van Gaal throwing Hasselbaink and van Hooijdonk on against us in 2001

[pineapple stu]

The only thing that would save face would be a job in the SPL or even League one. He has achieved a lot in the domestic game for his age and the international job came at a perfect time in his career. It’s all ended in tears but that’s life he will have to move on next year. He could always take an obscure international job.
Not doing his chances of TV punditry much good of course unfortunately

[tetsujin1979]

Combined player statistics for the two qualifiers
1701220495713046698

[Razors left peg]

Haven't read any of the thread. I was in stadium for 1st time in years last night as have been home last couple weeks. It was awful. We look so badly coached. Basic stuff. There's zero doubt its time for a change

[ifk101]

Greece is Kenny’s effective end. He was afforded time and expense to prepare for that game, promised great things, and fell flat. Poyet made a mockery of him in the aftermath. Koeman now making out he’s some tactical genius post last night. What Andrews and O’Shea add I do not know. Barry was a huge loss for us.

[Nesta99]

Stephen Kenny is a good guy and it’s sad that it hasn’t worked.
But it really hasn’t.
I hope he heads off on a nice long holiday when he’s put out of his (and our) misery


Might be a job going in Ballybofey soon, would be a real test of his abilities

Well if they keep giving out 8 year managerial contracts wouldnt matter a damn how able he was....

[SkStu]

So what do the wise folk of foot.ie think? Go now or in November?

My vote is for him to go now. He is a dead man walking, everyone knows it, and prolonging it is no good for him or the players. Going now allows us to get someone in with a few competitive games and friendlies to make some personnel decisions before the next round of Nations League. Only wrinkle is i dont think we have someone in on time for the October games.

[Stuttgart88]

Go now.

[passinginterest]

Assuming it's now inevitable that he's going, it would probably be as well to make the call now. I think there's two issues, even a small payoff is not good for the FAI finances at the moment and second the concern over anyone suitable being available to take over. Is there any point in having an interim manager for the next two games? Might as well just continue with Kenny as have a caretaker for those games? Nothing stopping the FAI taking their time sounding out potential replacements and having them ready to go as soon as the contract is up.

[zero]

go now for me also.

[TrapAPony]

Absolutely go now. No ifs, buts or maybes.

[Diggs246]

Go now please
Btw unlucky manager my ass
3.5 years of unluckiness !
Give us a rest

[ifk101]

I'd let him finish off his contract if there is a pay off involved. Need to make the U21 position a stepping stone for potential senior managers to have that as a option in times like this. As is, we don't have that option (sorry Jim).

[seanfhear]

Go now.

[joey B]

I cant see the point in staying,let a caretaker take the last couple of games and look for someone new....

[seanfhear]

Time for a Mutual Agreement departure.

[yurt]

Does anyone have a ballpark figure of the cost it'd be for the FAI to pay off the rest of Kenny's contract? It seems like it's the only real reason to keep him on at this stage.

Unless the FAI already have his replacement then I probably wouldn't pull the trigger because it seems at least like the players are still playing for him. Although unfortunately it is clear after the Greek and Dutch games that his in game management just isn't at the standard required.

I really wanted things to work out for this manager and the group of young players but unfortunately it isn't to be. Even though his time in charge can't be called a success by any stretch I have at least looked forward to all of the national team's games again. It's all I wanted when he took the job and he did that but sooner or later you need to pick up a few results.

I think the fixture he'll regret the most is Armenia away. It looks likely that even a point from that game would have made the difference for us to get a playoff. If we knew that we were more likely than not for a playoff at this stage I think a lot more people would be more inclined to let him see out the campaign.

[JR89]

Does anyone have a ballpark figure of the cost it'd be for the FAI to pay off the rest of Kenny's contract? It seems like it's the only real reason to keep him on at this stage.

Unless the FAI already have his replacement then I probably wouldn't pull the trigger because it seems at least like the players are still playing for him. Although unfortunately it is clear after the Greek and Dutch games that his in game management just isn't at the standard required.

I really wanted things to work out for this manager and the group of young players but unfortunately it isn't to be. Even though his time in charge can't be called a success by any stretch I have at least looked forward to all of the national team's games again. It's all I wanted when he took the job and he did that but sooner or later you need to pick up a few results.

I think the fixture he'll regret the most is Armenia away. It looks likely that even a point from that game would have made the difference for us to get a playoff. If we knew that we were more likely than not for a playoff at this stage I think a lot more people would be more inclined to let him see out the campaign.

€135K if the rumour of three months pay as a compensation is true.

[backstothewall]

€135K if the rumour of three months pay as a compensation is true.

If someone wants to organise a whip round I'll happily throw a few quid into a bucket.

But seriously. Why is he still there? What are they waiting on?

[JR89]

If someone wants to organise a whip round I'll happily throw a few quid into a bucket.

But seriously. Why is he still there? What are they waiting on?

Hill is doing a media briefing this Thursday regarding the Vera Pauw situation. Might get announced then he's gone or that they'll wait until end of the month when the board meets to announce any decision.

Even if they announced now that he's gone they still mightn't have a permanent replacement in place for Octobers games. So announcing it now or September 26th will likely make no difference. Also it might be that in the background they've made the decision that his time is over and shock us with an announcement on the 26th of he's gone and this is our next permanent manager

Think Cummiskey reported back in June that Marc Canham and Hill will play the biggest roles on who the next manager is. If Canham is involved would assume he's been working away in the background since June on finding candidates for the possibility that qualification would end in September.

[Colbert Report]

There's no advantage to sacking him now. The FAI could spend years in court arguing over whether we'd have made the playoff had we kept him on. The time to sack him was years ago, when it was obvious he hadn't a clue. Nice guy, and I hate to see anyone losing their job, but he's set Irish football back a decade or more with his naivety.

[Calcio Jack]

€135K if the rumour of three months pay as a compensation is true.

That rumour isn’t true - terms of his contract allow the FAI to dismiss him with immediate effect at no cost.

[pineapple stu]

The FAI could spend years in court arguing over whether we'd have made the playoff had we kept him on.
Not if they pay up his contract they wouldn't?

He's missed out on nothing then, and presumably his contract expires in November

[Colbert Report]

He could argue in court that if he'd been allowed to stay, we'd have made the playoff.

[Colbert Report]

That rumour isn’t true - terms of his contract allow the FAI to dismiss him with immediate effect at no cost.

If this post is true, why have the FAI stuck with him so long? Madness. I was convinced the only thing saving his job was the fact that the FAI have no money.

[pineapple stu]

He could argue in court that if he'd been allowed to stay, we'd have made the playoff.
Doesn't really matter. The FAI can argue they wouldn't have extended his contract until the playoffs (assuming it ends in November). Especially as reaching the playoffs is completely outside Kenny's control

Nothing illegal or court-worthy about putting someone on gardening leave

[ontheotherhand]

You'd have to fear for Kenny's future. A return to the League of Ireland would feel like a huge step down, but his record as Irish manager is so dreadful, it's hard to see anybody else wanting him. I was very pleased he got the job, but he's been an abject failure. A tragic figure in many ways; difficult to imagine where he goes from here.

If Derry don't win the league this season then I think Higgins should be under some pressure. A move for Kenny night make sense for all parties. Huge sign of intent for the billionaire owner and Kenny could save a bit of face as it would be seen as a coup and he'd get a decent wage. He'd also likely win the league at the first attempt as the Rovers team will have aged further and Bradley will probably be gone.

Can't see even a League One team offering him a deal to be honest.

[Diggs246]

[QUOTE=D24Saint;2161536]The only thing that would save face would be a job in the SPL or even League one. He has achieved a lot in the domestic game for his age and the international job came at a perfect time in his career. It’s all ended in tears but that’s life he will have to move on next year. He could always take an obscure international job.[/QUOTE

Well let's hope it's rangers, we can start enjoying his defeats

[elatedscum]

Really don’t see any point in having Andrews, O’Shea or Crawford managing as interim manager next month.

This is the time to be having conversations with Lee Carsley or whoever is their first choice. It takes months to get a backroom team together - agree contracts etc etc.

i think let Stephen see out the group. move then. Obviously if we happened to qualify for a playoff then a decision has to be made as to whether you’d make a move before a playoff - but it’s unlikely we do…

[JR89]

[B]Really don’t see any point in having Andrews, O’Shea or Crawford managing as interim manager next month.[/B

This is the time to be having conversations with Lee Carsley or whoever is their first choice. It takes months to get a backroom team together - agree contracts etc etc.

i think let Stephen see out the group. move then. Obviously if we happened to qualify for a playoff then a decision has to be made as to whether you’d make a move before a playoff - but it’s unlikely we do…

Same could be said for letting Kenny see out his contract. What's the point of keeping a lame duck around for the sake of it.

[JR89]

That rumour isn’t true - terms of his contract allow the FAI to dismiss him with immediate effect at no cost.

If true then they should announce on Thursday he's gone. Thank him for his service but that's it's time to part ways. Think everyone knew after Greece away his time was up. That they'd have gotten their list of candidates, Marc Canham supposedly in charge of head hunting the next manager, and ready to start interviews after the recent games.

[Colbert Report]

Doesn't really matter. The FAI can argue they wouldn't have extended his contract until the playoffs (assuming it ends in November). Especially as reaching the playoffs is completely outside Kenny's control

Nothing illegal or court-worthy about putting someone on gardening leave

His contract runs until the conclusion of the qualifying campaign, including any potential play off matches.

[pineapple stu]

So pay him up and put him on gardening leave if that's the way you want to go about it

Either way, no court case

[JR89]

His contract runs until the conclusion of the qualifying campaign, including any potential play off matches.

Doesn't matter when his contract runs till if the FAI have a break clause which allows them to remove him now.

[Calcio Jack]

His contract runs until the conclusion of the qualifying campaign, including any potential play off matches.

Not correct -there are clean break clauses ( no cost) built in and FAI are entitled to trigger them now if they wish

[Stuttgart88]

Irish Times today:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/2023/09/11/fai-could-part-ways-with-stephen-kenny-before-october-international-window/

The FAI can trigger a break clause in Republic of Ireland manager Stephen Kenny’s contract before the next international window in October. Kenny’s deal runs until after the 2024 European Championships in Germany but with Ireland unlikely to qualify, the association may see the value of appointing his successor in the coming weeks.

[Jolly Red Giant]

It would be gas if Robbie Keane were the successor, having been paid for nothing for the last while. But he has to be in the frame I think.
Oh holy bejaysus - NO - the guy is a tool