Republic of Ireland V Netherlands - Sunday, 11th September 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

[NeverFeltBetter]

Very much out of ideas it seems.

[Olé Olé]

How Jason knight isn't a top tier player yet...

Should have taken McGrath off again for Armstrong

[SkStu]

Crowd is so flat.

Great to see Sinclair Armstrong get his cap. Nice one.

[Olé Olé]

Very much out of ideas it seems.

No doubt he will reference bringing them in after match.

[third policeman]

Way too late for Armstrong

[SkStu]

Should be 6ish minutes injury time?

[tommy_c12000]

An Irish man of the match, never gets old

[brine3]

Kenny always seems to wait until everyone is past knackered until he makes a change.

[sbgawa]

Whealen is a gob****e

[SkStu]

Awful last 10 minutes really.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Daragh Moloney being a bit of an arsehole here, almost sounding gleeful at the idea of Irish fans booing the team at full time.

[tommy_c12000]

Please make it stop. We deserve better than a Kenny. He simply has not learned on the job, and remains at LOI standard

[zero]

surely that's enough. kenny out.

[CSAD]

Tbh it was obvious how this window would go as soon as Ferguson was ruled out, seems to sum up the Kenny era. I’ve been a Kenny supporter from the start but this is just starting to feel like the O’Neill era, it’s only going to go one way.

[SkStu]

Didn’t really lay a finger on them again for that last 10-15 minutes. Just when you want the intensity and barrage. Nothing there. Crowd leaving early. Nothing. Dutch are good but a result was there for us.

[geysir]

I was a bit surprised that the Dutch sat on 2-1 and didn't go in for the kill.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Second half we were awful. Did we test their keeper once?

Nothing much more to say. Kenny should be gone, but not sure he will be. We've regressed badly in terms of points gained and seeding, and someone else needs to take the team forward.

[CSAD]

Tbh I was hoping that we were so unlucky with the crap draw we got that we’d use up all our bad luck and results of other groups would go our way. Sadly it appears it hasn’t with the Group E result. We don’t really deserve any luck but still just feels like everything that could go wrong has gone wrong.

[osarusan]

Dutch changed it at halftime and that was that. We never really looked like getting a goal after that. Poor second to concede, but I think they'd have got one eventually.

Unlike France where they are just so much better there's nothing we can really do, there might have been something in that match for us, but it ended with a whimper really.

I know it's a bit paradoxical to take off frontmen when you are chasing a game, but Idah and Ogbene were utterly spent well before 90 mins, and may as well not have been on the pitch by the end.

[joey B]

Awful second half after a decent first,the Dutch arent special in the grand scheme of things and Koeman is an absolute bluffer but we made it so easy for them to see it out in the second half....
Kenny's time is up and should be put out of his misery.......

[seanfhear]

Second half we were awful. Did we test their keeper once?

Nothing much more to say. Kenny should be gone, but not sure he will be. We've regressed badly in terms of points gained and seeding, and someone else needs to take the team forward.
And that Dutch goalkeeper looks a bit dodgy !

[Olé Olé]

45mins - Weghorst on and Malen and Dumfries overload right. Egan and McClean targeted
53mins - Weghorst scores following heavy pressure and ball from right
63mins - McClean is subbed
73mins - Egan is subbed

[SkStu]

Dutch changed it at halftime and that was that. We never really looked like getting a goal after that. Poor second to concede, but I think they'd have got one eventually.

Unlike France where they are just so much better there's nothing we can really do, there might have been something in that match for us, but it ended with a shimper really.

I know it's a bit paradoxical to take off frontmen when you are chasing a game, but Idah and Ogbene were utterly spent well before 90 mins, and may as well not have been on the pitch by the end.

Completely agree. I posted the same at half time that Kenny would be outfoxed with the changes the Dutch would make.

For what it’s worth, I thought Idah was gone at 60/65 minutes but kept plugging away admirably. There’s not really a like for like player left to Kenny but what would there have been to lose by having Armstrong on up there and/or moving Duffy up? Omobamidele at the back.

Also, I’m not going to rule him out but Ebosele is not yet up to the standard required at this level. Touch is atrocious. Manning did impress me though when he came on.

[rebelmusic]

Logging in for one of my rare posts. Enough is enough, Kenny needs to go and another manager given time to bed in. I've really, really tried to believe that this would come good but the road has run out of tarmac. The players deserve so much more for the commitment and effort. Go back to McCarthys second stint - basically the same players but we were getting results against Denmark and beating the minnows, despite the 'quality' seeming not great. Irish soccer has always thrived under managers that play to our strengths and have failed when managers have tried to instill European style systems. I haven't been this disheartened since Staunton. Enough is enough

[Fixer82]

Tbh it was obvious how this window would go as soon as Ferguson was ruled out, seems to sum up the Kenny era. I’ve been a Kenny supporter from the start but this is just starting to feel like the O’Neill era, it’s only going to go one way.

We qualified under O’Neill.
And we never gave up til final whistle

[CSAD]

We qualified under O’Neill.
And we never gave up til final whistle

Yeah but O’Neill final year was about as hopeless as this.

Whatever about the midfield or attack there is absolutely 0 excuses for us to be poor in defence.

[liamoo11]

Dutch changed it at halftime and that was that. We never really looked like getting a goal after that. Poor second to concede, but I think they'd have got one eventually.

Unlike France where they are just so much better there's nothing we can really do, there might have been something in that match for us, but it ended with a whimper really.

I know it's a bit paradoxical to take off frontmen when you are chasing a game, but Idah and Ogbene were utterly spent well before 90 mins, and may as well not have been on the pitch by the end.

That first line is it isn't it? The Dutch manager identified issues and made 2 subs to address it even though they were level away from home. That's what been a manager is about. Mcclean was a liability for the goal and the other big chance in first half but we don't change it until he has given.up another 2 big chances and we are a goal down

[SkStu]

He seems really defeated and TOD not going easy on him. Not good enough and his words ring hollow. He knows the end is nigh.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Hansi Flick is suddenly free... (joking)

[Calcio Jack]

He seems really defeated and TOD not going easy on him. Not good enough and his words ring hollow. He knows the end is nigh.

On a human level it’s painful to watch him.. but that is just deflecting from the reality of how useless he is….. of course he’ll want to hang on but assume the FAI will now move him on ( there’s no cost to that so no excuse )

[Bottle of Tonic]

I thought it was a good game. We were well up for it and in their (smug, Dutch) faces. Thought we looked like we could score, which too often is not the case and had them rattled for much of the 90.

Regardless of performance this window the management have run out of road and a fresh set up needs to be installed. The players are decent, no world beaters, but they deserve a shot under new management and a chance to escape from a losing environment which is what it badly is now under SK and sadly there are no signs of that changing.

Thanks for the effort, the change in style, the blooding of youngsters. You had no luck but it's time up and time for a new voice in the dressing room.

[SkStu]

Yeah, It’s hard to watch and it’s clearly affecting his well-being. Didi had no sympathy for him (he was lying when he said he did lol)…

I’d end it now and start the search for someone before the October window. Greece at home, Gibraltar, then a good test against the Dutch and a New Zealand friendly before a possible (albeit unlikely) play off. It’s a good run for a new manager.

Not sure what is out there.

[texidub]

To be honest, I thought it was a decent, open game of football, albeit between two not very good sides. As pineapple stu mentioned earlier in the thread, it's hard not to think about what Evan Ferguson would have done with the chances we had in the first half alone. Awkward touches up front from Idah and Ogbene really cost us. Browne surprised me (in a good way). Knight is really top quality. I just hope the new manager bans dithering.

[Eminence Grise]

Regardless of performance this window the management have run out of road and a fresh set up needs to be installed. The players are decent, no world beaters, but they deserve a shot under new management and a chance to escape from a losing environment which is what it badly is now under SK and sadly there are no signs of that changing.

Thanks for the effort, the change in style, the blooding of youngsters. You had no luck but it's time up and time for a new voice in the dressing room.

That's fair and balanced and exactly where I am right now. I wish Kenny well and hope he gets a shot at managing at a decent level, but it's time to admit that it hasn't worked out.

[Fixer82]

Stephen Kenny is a good guy and it’s sad that it hasn’t worked.
But it really hasn’t.
I hope he heads off on a nice long holiday when he’s put out of his (and our) misery

[sbgawa]

Kenny has run out of road. Terrible results matched by no discernable progress in other areas.

[TrapAPony]

He seems really defeated and TOD not going easy on him. Not good enough and his words ring hollow. He knows the end is nigh.

Long long long overdue. Kenny was always going to be well out of his depth as manager of the senior side. Terrible record and hasn't done anything of note in 36 matches (how he was allowed get that many I will never know) in charge bar making sure we are out of the running for qualification extremely early yet again and shoving us further & further down the rankings. Nice fella and all that jazz but definitely time to get rid.

[John83]

I was admiring the postmatch interview.

Interviewer: They looked like they might be there for the taking tonight?!

Kenny: Well... It's just that... [inaudible] *sighs*... I'm just disappointed at the goal that we conceeded then. Y'know... *pulls a face* ... very disappointed at that, buh...
Stirring stuff. I'm just disappointed that the interviewer cut him off with another question.

All his bluster about how to play, and the livescore stats say we had two shots all game. Two shots. Including the penalty. The other shot was off target. Gibraltar managed two shots against us in June.

[pineapple stu]

I know it's a bit paradoxical to take off frontmen when you are chasing a game, but Idah and Ogbene were utterly spent well before 90 mins, and may as well not have been on the pitch by the end.
I don't think it's paradoxical at all. It's quite common to rotate your attacking players especially with five subs cos they're the ones chasing everything and running out of energy, so you bring them off and put on fresh legs up front.

Ogbene in particular had a poor game and got very little change from his man; I think he should have come off early in the second half anyway. But even allowing for the fact that our options on the bench were so limited (which was unfortunate - Parrott, Ferguson, Obafemi, Johnston all out injured), it made no sense to leave Idah and Ogbene on for the full 90, I thought.

Strange game though. We really only had two two early chances - both times Idah delayed in setting up Ogbene for a poor shot - in addition to the penalty (and the first chance led immediately to the penalty). We didn't have a single shot after about the tenth minute. Yet I thought we played reasonably well for the first half, though the Dutch learned more as the game went on and gradually took over. I never felt we were really in with a chance of an equaliser in the last 15, and that's unusual for Kenny sides. We've had plenty of late rallies (usually after 75 minutes of dross), but nothing this time.

Realistically the two results this window - with the injuries we had - were probably about as good as we could have hoped for. The games next window are the more important ones because we keep falling down against sides around our level or even the minnows. But not seeing anything really to move my view away from quietly moving Kenny on at the end of the campaign.

Edit - extended highlights on DailyMotion here (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8nzdb9) already.

[pineapple stu]

Actually, a couple of changes of mind watching the highlights (as always!)

Our second shot was 35 minutes in - don't know why I thought it was about 10 minutes in. I was harsh on Idah's contribution; it's Ogbene's poor first touch that doesn't help. But that was still it for clear chances in the game.

The pass that split the defence for the penalty - how does that get all the way through? And Duffy dropping behind the defence to play the key man onside for both goals.

Great penalty from Idah, but awful play just before it. It looks like he had to take a second to try work out what to do when the ball came to him eight yards out, and then he chose the wrong option.

[geysir]

His contract is up soon, It's obvious it will not be renewed. I don't get the bleating about 'it's time for him to go', his time is up already it's just a matter of financial timing. The next manager will have the 2024 nations league group stage.

There's nothing new with the Kenny post match interview, it's the same as it ever was, he blushes, stutters and panics, it's a live car crash, he has a (turbo charged) panic disorder plain and simple, it's the complete reverse after a (rare) win, then he's riding the high horse of confidence and assurance. It should be noted that he was a failure as u21 coach, Ireland failed to qualify for those finals.

This campaign it's not about the players available to him, it's more that he consistently fails to structure the team to best effect, this evening was doomed (as with many other games) with having so many free corridors through the whole width of midfield and us depending on a bit of old fashioned chaos with set pieces. Even the Dutch went 442 when it suited their game. With us, 4231 or 451 is infinitely more suited than sticking with a dogma of attacking formation against technically proficient teams who can suss it all out by half time.

[joey B]

Looking back at the 2 goals we conceded Duffys positioning is truly awful, the first one in particular is criminal, if you're going to be a pressing team like we clearly were in the first half you can't be dropping that deep, it's just far too easy to exploit by any half decent team....

[Nesta99]

Kenny has run out of road. Terrible results matched by no discernable progress in other areas.

It was tough to watch that post match interview, he's an emotional chap that almost cares too much. Any progress that was made plateaued, for quite a while Id have argued that you could see patterns of play developing and that with time a complete performance would happen. It seems that as we progressed in one area eg ball out from the back while countering a high press, we went backwards in other areas like not coughing up too many goals. To a fault he sticks with players he has selected and is slow to change things, its an area he could improve I think - almost having less absolute faith in his system and backing players to come good. Didnt help himself with so openly setting targets eg next campaign is when to be judged - he didnt change the rhetoric from early squad development to when a squad was or should have beeded in. All that said, he got no luck at all from pandemics to injuries. Maybe he was too eager to take on the senior job from McCarthy when all that rescheduling happened early on and caused overlap. Just for the opportunity to Delaney bash, it is still part of his grubby dealings and manipulation with the whole appointing 2 people to the same job and when SK goes its then end of those lingering dealings.

So where to now? Big Sam with his LoI experience ;p . Potter wouldnt take an international job yet. What about an old warhorse like Santos? Someone out of left field like Carvahal.....get som Irish billionaire to make it worthJoachim Low's time? Most of the usuals are now in jobs, Dyche, Rogers etc. We'll probably end up with Barraclough:eek:


Stephen Kenny is a good guy and it’s sad that it hasn’t worked.
But it really hasn’t.
I hope he heads off on a nice long holiday when he’s put out of his (and our) misery

He could have a nice less intense job, 10 minutes drive from home as a DoF at Oriel Park!! Get back to some roots, rebuild confidence, have a remit to (re)build an entire club. Doesnt have to be involved in day to day fooball working with a manager he knows well and may be willing to work with a DoF. Well we can hope!!

[brine3]

With us, 4231 or 451 is infinitely more suited than sticking with a dogma of attacking formation against technically proficient teams who can suss it all out by half time.

This is the reason why teams keep scoring against us just after half time. We surprise them in the first half because they don't know what to expect. During the halftime break the other team goes into their dressing room and discusses what we are up to. They sus us out and make the necessary changes to exploit our weaknesses and then they lay siege to us early in the second half. Kenny eventually makes a change to counter, but only after the other team scores first. What did he say in the interview last night, something about how we just needed to "ride out" the Dutch attacks after half time? No Stephen, the game had changed.

[osarusan]

The amount of times that we start well, only for the other team to make some adjustment that puts them on top, is far greater than the other way round.

Kenny is fairly consistently outmanaged, or out-tacticed, at this level.

[Predator]

Chief culpability for the first goal lies with Matt Doherty, who inexplicably headed the ball straight to a Dutch player in a dangerous position, under little pressure. There was no discernible defensive line in the subsequent breakdown of play, because Nathan Collins was then out of position (understandably getting ready to join our counterattack) and he was drawn to the ball, while Shane Duffy naturally dropped off. John Egan and James McClean were also not aligned - it was a total breakdown and happened so fast. While Duffy's position played Dumfries onside for the second Dutch goal, we also failed to deal with that obvious overload on our left, but Duffy still needed to deal better with Weghorst for the cross. Other than that, I thought the defence was actually quite solid and dealt with the Dutch pace well, with Duffy making few crucial tackles in the box late on as we chased the game. There were a few decent interceptions, blocks and timely clearances from all three CBs, though going forward the distribution of both Collins and Egan left a lot to be desired, with a lot of wasted long balls into the channels to nobody.

According to the stats, both teams had nine shots during the game - Ireland had one on target, the Dutch had five. Ultimately, that was the difference between the two teams. Ireland's press alone created enough opportunities to win the game and players of greater quality take those, no question. Instead, our attacking play in possession was laboured, predictable and ultimately let down by individual decision-making. I also think we are badly missing a specialist set-piece taker. For someone who ships a lot of unwarranted abuse about his crossing etc, James McClean's deliveries were not bad, but we haven't had a free kick and corner taker of genuine quality since Robbie Brady and, to a lesser degree, Conor Hourihane. We have been unable to capitalise on set-pieces as well as we have in the past.

Towards the end of the game, when the formation was changed to 4-3-3, Duffy was urging Doherty to get forward, but he didn't seem to do so. At one point he took up a central position instead of pushing high and wide, but he was subsequently taken off so maybe he didn't have the legs (calling into question the decision to start him).

A final observation: I was struck by the cynicism and overt physicality from the likes of Tchouameni, Upamecano, Griezmann, De Jong and Van Dijk during this window. They were slide-tackling, nudging into the back, smashing into players, holding onto jerseys and generally getting in our faces. A reminder that top quality players are not beyond using the Dark Arts to gain an advantage. I wonder did we do it enough ourselves??

[seanfhear]

Hansi Flick is suddenly free... (joking)
Herr Flick ~ ~ Maybe things are that bad ! ! !

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, that header infield by Doherty was just so careless. Duffy was too deep but that was only a secondary error. And it’s not the first time a carelessly conceded interception by Doherty has cost us recently. I can’t remember, was it against Latvia he did something similar in exactly the same part of the pitch?

Kenny’s inability to react to changing circumstances is his fatal flaw imho. I’m no expert but when I saw the Dutch shift the whole team forward into our half after HT I thought we needed the threat of pace to keep them honest. Connolly, Armstrong, Festy… But even if that wasn’t the solution, there was a problem that needed fixing and SK did nothing.

Didi Hamann’s comments that were circulated on social media were bang on, the regularity in which we let good positions deteriorate is a sign of a weak team.

The annoying thing is that there were good individual performances. In fact almost everyone played well to a degree for large parts of the game. Ogbene and Idah’s decision making was poor though and I’m just not sure Idah’s instincts are up the scratch.

But I really like these lads. They’re honest, quite talented in some positions but being let down by management’s inability to adapt to changing circumstances. I don’t think we’re as bad as the results make out.

[Diggs246]

What happens now
Do the fai call an emergency board meeting and sack him?
Or stay silent for the moment because they are hopeless?

[pineapple stu]

I'm not sure you can say chief culpability rests with Doherty. OK, he probably should have let the ball go to the winger and close him down from there; instead he stretched and couldn't get any real control on where he was putting it.

But that gave the Dutch the ball ten yards inside their own half. They'd had possession anyway so we weren't regrouping. They find a wonderful through ball, but our entire centre is all over the place to allow the gaps the pass found. That's the bigger issue for me on it. Cullen doesn't get close to the midfield player to prevent the pass, Duffy is playing the Dutch guy on, McClean is pointing at him having lost him, but Egan already has a lad to cover and can't get on both. It looks like a catalogue of errors there.


I don’t think we’re as bad as the results make out.
I think it's hard to say that after games against sides like France and Holland when we're missing so many players in one position. But I feel there's something in that alright. So when the comment comes out "What would another manager be doing differently?", I think there has to be scope that he could actually improve us a fair bit. Maybe it's just that we have to have something to hope for, so that may as well be it!