Ukraine V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 14th June 2022 - 2022/23 UEFA Nations League

[JR89]

Unfortunately for Idah he's gotta stay fit. Even Norwich fans are bigging him up as hopefully someone that will come good this season, but also say we've said the same thing last summer and the summer before that for his season to be ruined by long term injuries.

[Insidetherock]

Unfortunately for Idah he's gotta stay fit. Even Norwich fans are bigging him up as hopefully someone that will come good this season, but also say we've said the same thing last summer and the summer before that for his season to be ruined by long term injuries.

I suppose we could say the same thing about every player.. injuries play a huge part in any career, or lack of it.

But the fact we're talking about 20/21 y olds like they are grizzled veterans with years behind them, show's what we potentially might have if they all stay fit and healthy.

Brilliant Athletic article I read last year, said that most strikers don't even start to peak until around 25..

[mark12345]

All you can do is hope with Obafemi.. but no doubt Swansea will be looking after him too as they want a fit and ready Obafemi every week, not just every few months like Ireland do

Way way back long ago, after the WC losses in the first few games, I said that before Ireland would have to play a potential play off for Euro 24, they'd nearly 24-28 games to get it right.

(6 WC, 6 NL's, 8-10 EQ's, and 4-6 friendlies)

I've cheered Kenny on.. and pulled my hair out screaming at him. He's taken forward steps, and backward steps. Things worked, and things went awry.

But if anyone thinks we're not in a better place right now, than we were 3 1/2 yrs ago, they either haven't a clue, or are simply lying to themselves.

There must be very few international teams in Europe, or globally, relying on so many young players. But those players will grow up.

We're potentially looking at 3 PL playing keepers.

Collins should be playing CB this season, and Omobomidele, O Shea, Lenihan, will all be operating (or should be), at the higher levels of the Championship, potentially playing PL next season at relatively young ages.

Doherty, back fully fit, should be back playing regularly in the PL.

Midfield.. we need to strengthen the area at the highest levels.. but there is potential there too. Even beyond the fact Knight could probably play PL, and Cullen high level Championship, maybe its the season for Smallbone to breakthrough. Kilkenny at Bournemouth. Molumby will hopefully be playing regularly at a high level Championship at West Brom, and maybe back playing PL in a season or two.

And up front, Obafemi, Parrott.. along with in a couple of years Ferguson.. could all be playing PL football.

And ok, there's a lot of "wishful thinking" there.. but why not feel optimistic

For years we've been lucky to have one, maybe two Irish players playing regularly in the PL (or other higher European leagues)... maybe now we're beginning to see the start of a small conveyor of talent arising..

Wouldn't it be great

All good points you make about the players and the manager. However I will say this about Kenny's 'petformance' last Tuesday. It really bothered me when he introduced Hendrick and Hourihane from the bench. I'm sure the groans of frustration could be heard all around Ireland at the sight of that pair entering the fray. I have a sneaking feeling that SK allowed himself to be swayed by some sort of sentiment regarding senior players and their place in the squad etc? That way of thinking has destroyed Irish performances for decades. Hopefully it's the last of it and these lads are put out to pasture. Plenty of young talent coming through and SK is quite receptive in that area. Hopefully he puts an end to playing players who have continually underperformed (Hendrick and Hourihane).

[Insidetherock]

All good points you make about the players and the manager. However I will say this about Kenny's 'petformance' last Tuesday. It really bothered me when he introduced Hendrick and Hourihane from the bench. I'm sure the groans of frustration could be heard all around Ireland at the sight of that pair entering the fray. I have a sneaking feeling that SK allowed himself to be swayed by some sort of sentiment regarding senior players and their place in the squad etc? That way of thinking has destroyed Irish performances for decades. Hopefully it's the last of it and these lads are put out to pasture. Plenty of young talent coming through and SK is quite receptive in that area. Hopefully he puts an end to playing players who have continually underperformed (Hendrick and Hourihane).

Think you're being a small bit harsh on Hendrick.. he got constantly exposed in a midfield 2.. but Molumby had the benefit of being part of a three.. Hendrick would have looked better in a three as well

I've never really gotten Hourihane at all.. hard to pick out when he ever played a good game for Ireland

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, I think Hendrick can hardly be said to have underperformed. If anything, he's raised his game for us when compared to his club form.

[tetsujin1979]

I thought Hendrick was good in the first half of the game against Armenia, but looked exhausted by the end, and really should have come off instead of Cullen. He took an unfair amount of the criticism for the defeat too.

[Olé Olé]

Unfortunately for Idah he's gotta stay fit. Even Norwich fans are bigging him up as hopefully someone that will come good this season, but also say we've said the same thing last summer and the summer before that for his season to be ruined by long term injuries.

Absolutely. He seems to have picked up injuries at the worst possible times.

[JR89]

I thought Hendrick was good in the first half of the game against Armenia, but looked exhausted by the end, and really should have come off instead of Cullen. He took an unfair amount of the criticism for the defeat too.

He has replaced Glen Whelan as the fall guy for when something goes wrong. Two man midfield in those weather conditions was asking for trouble.

[liamoo11]

All you can do is hope with Obafemi.. but no doubt Swansea will be looking after him too as they want a fit and ready Obafemi every week, not just every few months like Ireland do

Way way back long ago, after the WC losses in the first few games, I said that before Ireland would have to play a potential play off for Euro 24, they'd nearly 24-28 games to get it right.

(6 WC, 6 NL's, 8-10 EQ's, and 4-6 friendlies)

I've cheered Kenny on.. and pulled my hair out screaming at him. He's taken forward steps, and backward steps. Things worked, and things went awry.

But if anyone thinks we're not in a better place right now, than we were 3 1/2 yrs ago, they either haven't a clue, or are simply lying to themselves.

There must be very few international teams in Europe, or globally, relying on so many young players. But those players will grow up.

We're potentially looking at 3 PL playing keepers.

Collins should be playing CB this season, and Omobomidele, O Shea, Lenihan, will all be operating (or should be), at the higher levels of the Championship, potentially playing PL next season at relatively young ages.

Doherty, back fully fit, should be back playing regularly in the PL.

Midfield.. we need to strengthen the area at the highest levels.. but there is potential there too. Even beyond the fact Knight could probably play PL, and Cullen high level Championship, maybe its the season for Smallbone to breakthrough. Kilkenny at Bournemouth. Molumby will hopefully be playing regularly at a high level Championship at West Brom, and maybe back playing PL in a season or two.

And up front, Obafemi, Parrott.. along with in a couple of years Ferguson.. could all be playing PL football.

And ok, there's a lot of "wishful thinking" there.. but why not feel optimistic

For years we've been lucky to have one, maybe two Irish players playing regularly in the PL (or other higher European leagues)... maybe now we're beginning to see the start of a small conveyor of talent arising..

Wouldn't it be great

The big thong from this window is tge change of formation to a 532 and the move away from endless ball retention attempts to a pragmatic style which we saw against Ukraine and Scotland of been prepared to hit tge channels early for front 2 to bring the midfield into it and then play from there. They are 2 massive changes

[seanfhear]

The big thong from this window is tge change of formation to a 532 and the move away from endless ball retention attempts to a pragmatic style which we saw against Ukraine and Scotland of been prepared to hit tge channels early for front 2 to bring the midfield into it and then play from there. They are 2 massive changes

Seems like I was not paying enough attention ! !

[Trequartista20]

Seems like I was not paying enough attention ! !

Yeah, I was completely underwear of that too.

[Eirambler]

All good points you make about the players and the manager. However I will say this about Kenny's 'petformance' last Tuesday. It really bothered me when he introduced Hendrick and Hourihane from the bench. I'm sure the groans of frustration could be heard all around Ireland at the sight of that pair entering the fray. I have a sneaking feeling that SK allowed himself to be swayed by some sort of sentiment regarding senior players and their place in the squad etc? That way of thinking has destroyed Irish performances for decades. Hopefully it's the last of it and these lads are put out to pasture. Plenty of young talent coming through and SK is quite receptive in that area. Hopefully he puts an end to playing players who have continually underperformed (Hendrick and Hourihane).

In fairness to Kenny I wouldn't be too critical of him over that. The two Jasons had run themselves into the ground and we needed fresh legs on, with Browne at wing back there weren't many (any?) other options for centre midfield. Also Hendrick has been decent lately. Hourihane not so much, but we were out of midfielders so he had to come in.

I'd be a lot more critical of Kenny for going with a midfield two in Armenia and, particularly, for not learning the lesson and properly fixing it for the Ukraine game. It's a lesson that should have been learned after the World Cup qualifiers anyway, but to not even learn it after Armenia was really something. Makes me worry that he could make the same mistake again in the autumn or in the Euro qualifiers next year.

[ifk101]

I'm not so critical of playing the 2 in midfield against Armenia and don't think playing that way should be disregarded going forward. It worked quite well before, away to Portugal is one of our better performances under Kenny and that was with a 2 in midfield. Additionally, we won with comfort away to Azerbaijan (similar standard to Armenia) playing with 2 in midfield. And it's not like Kenny didn't evaluate options - we played 3 different formations in 3 successive games; Andorra, Hungary and Portugal (away) - with the formation away to Portugal sticking (2 in midfield). But other areas of the team need to function to play 2 in midfield - wing backs, in particular. We simply didn't have the needed mobility at wing back in the first two games - and specifically beefing the midfield was the resultant forced move to address this.

[Razors left peg]

I will say one thing - no criticism here and I am probably guilty of it myself but there's a bit of an out of sight out of mind slant on the attack and defence situations with regards to Idah and Omobamidele.

A lot of commentary about how we may have arrived upon a strike partnership in Parrott and Obafemi. I'd back Idah to get a cool 10+ goals next season at Norwich if he can get back fit and playing soon. He looked very good before his injury. His style of play will present an interesting option for Kenny, particularly when you consider he was used almost like Parrott was in the last two games i.e. 9 but willing and happy to come a little deeper. The beauty for him in doing this is his ability with back to goal. I know Parrott and he didn't click v Hungary but both lads were in different places at that time.

All things being equal in terms of club form you'd still be looking at Obafemi and Parrott after the Scotland magic they produced. But Idah is a serious option.

At the back, I have heard Omobamidele's name a lot. Mostly in the context of Coleman's season and Duffy's season and concession of possession against Scotland on those two panicky occasions. Egan left, Collins centre and Omobamidele right has a nice balance to it. But I wouldn't be ruling out Coleman and Duffy just.

Couldnt agree with this more. Out of sight, out of mind. Especially with Idah. Ive seen a lot of fellas saying that Idah couldnt get in a terrible Norwich team this season. He had just broken in and was starting to be 1st choice, got couple of goals and was playing very well before his season suddenly ended.

I know he hasnt scored a senior international goal yet but his performance away to Portugal really sticks in my mind. I thought he was brilliant that night.

Fingers crossed he can stay injury free this season, I hate seeing players get long term injuries at a young age.

[liamoo11]

Couldnt agree with this more. Out of sight, out of mind. Especially with Idah. Ive seen a lot of fellas saying that Idah couldnt get in a terrible Norwich team this season. He had just broken in and was starting to be 1st choice, got couple of goals and was playing very well before his season suddenly ended.

I know he hasnt scored a senior international goal yet but his performance away to Portugal really sticks in my mind. I thought he was brilliant that night.

Fingers crossed he can stay injury free this season, I hate seeing players get long term injuries at a young age.

Short term having 5 forwards idah obafemi parrott connolly and Robinson to fill 2 positions is decent depth by our standards with some nice variety amongst them

[Razors left peg]

Short term having 5 forwards idah obafemi parrott connolly and Robinson to fill 2 positions is decent depth by our standards with some nice variety amongst them

I think this could be a break though season for Ferguson. Hes young but has the look of a lad that will force himself into 1st team football sooner rather than later. Brighton dont have brilliant players in front of him either.

IF, he was to play 15/20 games this season then Robinson might be starting to get worried about his place in squad looking at those options. Although Connolly has a lot to do to make himself relevant too.

[pineapple stu]

Couldnt agree with this more. Out of sight, out of mind. Especially with Idah. Ive seen a lot of fellas saying that Idah couldnt get in a terrible Norwich team this season. He had just broken in and was starting to be 1st choice, got couple of goals and was playing very well before his season suddenly ended.
He scored one goal, and had some poor performances as well as good ones in the five starts he had before getting injured.

Just again to keep things in balance...

[Razors left peg]

He scored one goal, and had some poor performances as well as good ones in the five starts he had before getting injured.

Just again to keep things in balance...

Thank God for the balance.

[SkStu]

Thank God for the balance.

You were getting awful giddy there Razor.

[elatedscum]

Short term having 5 forwards idah obafemi parrott connolly and Robinson to fill 2 positions is decent depth by our standards with some nice variety amongst them

I’d include Ogbene on that list. I know he didn’t look great this window but to me he looked pretty fatigued and was battling knocks. His performances against Portugal and Belgium were really impressive during the season.

[Razors left peg]

I’d include Ogbene on that list. I know he didn’t look great this window but to me he looked pretty fatigued and was battling knocks. His performances against Portugal and Belgium were really impressive during the season.

Id like to see him play in at least the Championship next season. We've often had players over the years whos international performances were better than their clubs but I'm still not sure of him. He definitely can make impact with enthusiasm and pace, but if we had everyone available I think hes a decent bench option

[TonyD]

Id like to see him play in at least the Championship next season. We've often had players over the years whos international performances were better than their clubs but I'm still not sure of him. He definitely can make impact with enthusiasm and pace, but if we had everyone available I think hes a decent bench option

I really like Ogbene, and I think some of the comments about him after the first two games in this window were a bit harsh. He’s a player that is capable of causing a lot of problems for teams, and he has a couple of goals to his credit too, so he is capable of finding the net. I’d agree with you about Idah, I think he has the potential to be a really good player for us. We’ve never really been blessed with prolific strikers, Robbie Keane being the standout exception. Even Frank Stapleton, who was a terrific Centre forward, was never really a goals machine. If Obafemi, Idah, Ogbene, Parrott and possibly Ferguson are in the squad in 2/3 years time, I think that would be a decent set of striking options.

[Razors left peg]

I really like Ogbene, and I think some of the comments about him after the first two games in this window were a bit harsh. He’s a player that is capable of causing a lot of problems for teams, and he has a couple of goals to his credit too, so he is capable of finding the net. I’d agree with you about Idah, I think he has the potential to be a really good player for us. We’ve never really been blessed with prolific strikers, Robbie Keane being the standout exception. Even Frank Stapleton, who was a terrific Centre forward, was never really a goals machine. If Obafemi, Idah, Ogbene, Parrott and possibly Ferguson are in the squad in 2/3 years time, I think that would be a decent set of striking options.

I was far too harsh on Ogbene myself after his 1st couple of games but he won me over. I dont think he was helped in recent games by playing as a central striker, he might be worth looking at as a wing back. One way or another he needs to be played wide to be effective

[Stuttgart88]

I like Ogbene too. He can score goals at this level. Plenty of more heralded players can’t. Maybe his star will fade, maybe it won’t, but I’d keep him in our plans.

[pineapple stu]

I really like Ogbene, and I think some of the comments about him after the first two games in this window were a bit harsh.
I was surprised by the reaction to him to be honest.

Yep, he wasn't great - and wasn't alone in that - but the comments seemed to be along the line of "Ah he's clearly not good enough and never will be; showing he's a very limited player"

But that ignores his good start completely. Didn't think foot posters would be the kind to almost ditch him so quickly after a couple of poor games.

[Jd2793]

i think he is limited though. theres a reason rotherham play him as a wing back and not central like kenny does. theres a massive difference in ability when you compare him to someone like parrott or obafemi in those tight central positions.

[tetsujin1979]

One of the mistakes I thought he made in the four games in July was moving Ogbene to wing back after saying it wasn't where he should be played

[pineapple stu]

i think he is limited though.
I think he is alright. I said after the March games that if we could upgrade him for, say, a Premier League player, then that would be a good thing, and I still think that stands. At the time it was acknowledged that he was probably our most effective attacking player and the hardest to drop, and that was probably fair too.

But still think the swing in opinion over June was quite large. Maybe he even over-achieved in the first few games and we're seeing a bit of regression to mean now.

[Insidetherock]

I genuinely think that is the case.. he has a role perhaps though, which could be stretching teams that like playing a high line, or when teams begin to tire later on.

Though the "tiring later on" might become less relevant at all levels of football now, when the whole game is moving to 5 subs from 3. We're likely to start seeing football become like rugby, where making subs is not simply down to poor play/injury, but dedicated pre planned subs for tactical reasons

[Stuttgart88]

if we could upgrade him for, say, a Premier League player, then that would be a good thing.It's nuggets of wisdom like this that keeps me coming back to foot.ie.

[pineapple stu]

You're welcome.

But it's in the contact that, in that discussion, he was seen as almost one of the first names on the teamsheet. I think it highlights just how much the opinion of him changed over the June games.

[Trequartista20]

I was surprised by the reaction to him to be honest.

Yep, he wasn't great - and wasn't alone in that - but the comments seemed to be along the line of "Ah he's clearly not good enough and never will be; showing he's a very limited player"

But that ignores his good start completely. Didn't think foot posters would be the kind to almost ditch him so quickly after a couple of poor games.

I like Chiedozie Ogbene both as a player and as a character; he's been a breath of fresh air since coming into the Irish setup and is undoubtedly one of the success stories of Kenny's time in charge. He's pacy, enthusiastic, a hard worker, enjoys taking on and committing defenders and, as we've seen from his short Ireland career so far, is capable of coming up with some big moments for us.

However, I remain to be totally convinced that a player, who plays mainly as a wingback at club level, has the particular skillset required to be effective in a central attacking role.

[seanfhear]

I like Chiedozie Ogbene both as a player and as a character; he's been a breath of fresh air since coming into the Irish setup and is undoubtedly one of the success stories of Kenny's time in charge. He's pacy, enthusiastic, a hard worker, enjoys taking on and committing defenders and, as we've seen from his short Ireland career so far, is capable of coming up with some big moments for us.

However, I remain to be totally convinced that a player, who plays mainly as a wingback at club level, has the particular skillset required to be effective in a central attacking role.
Sort of suggests that he must / might be more suited to playing somewhere on the wing of the pitch.

[Olé Olé]

I complained when Rotherham played him wing back and he was becoming more important for us as a wide forward. However, I think we are all very clear on the evidence that we need two strikers rather than three forwards from here on out. That makes things very difficult for Ogbene who is, as a few have said, not really a central player. I think he'll be a good option starting certain games up front and can create problems in situations where we do press a midfielder high and Ogbene can occupy space otu wide. So, he will definitely have his uses. But, for now, I can't see him starting the Scotland game away in September. That's not really through any fault of his own. I think the criticism of his technical ability is overstated here and there - he's just a player who is better facing goal than with his back to goal. I think he has shown plenty control, passing, crossing and finishing for Ireland. And I think he will be a very useful weapon even in the near term 3-5-2.

[tetsujin1979]

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