UEFSA Coefficients Thread [Archive]

eirebhoy

13/07/2005, 11:24 PM

Might as well open this thread for the European run. Most people know this but I'll say it anyway. Since we have 3 teams representing Ireland a win in the qualifying round is worth 0.333 points. A draw is worth 0.166. A win or draw in the CL or UEFA cup proper is worth double (so 0.666 and 0.333 respectively).

In the latest official rankings Ireland was in 38th place. We lose the 1.666 points from the 2000/2001 season now though so for the the rankings now in progress since the CL began yesterday we started off in 43rd place. Shels won tonight while 3 teams countries directly above Ireland all lost (Albania - Teuta Durrës; Malta - Birkirkara; Armenia - Banants Yerevan) so we have now moved up to 40th place.

Here are the current ranking being updated after every match:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2006.html

Here are all the countries and their representatives for this season:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/ccoef2006.html

The country above us, Belarus, had Dinamo Minsk playing tonight and they drew at home to a team from Cyprus. The only Liechtenstein representative, as usual, is Vaduz and they will be in the UEFA cup. The Icelandic team lost 2-0 away to a team from Azerbaijan last night.

Team coefficients only count in the UEFA cup or CL proper so we can leave that for a while. :) If you want to know how to calculate a club coefficient just ask.

I think the first qualifying rounds should bring Ireland at least 1.333 points and at least 2 clubs progressing to the next round.

Slash/ED

13/07/2005, 11:38 PM

pineapple stu

14/07/2005, 8:30 AM

Shels won tonight while 3 teams countries directly above Ireland all lost (Albania - Teuta Durrës; Malta - Birkirkara; Armenia - Banants Yerevan) so we have now moved up to 40th place.
Some good results alright. No real need to worry about catching Liechtenstein as they only have the one team, and none in the CL. If we get a good run, we could catch up to Macedonia in 36th, but I'd be happy with getting back to 38th (or 39th behind Liechtenstein) and then making some ground in the next three years when we lose 1.165 in total.

Edit - If we can get 1.666 every year, we'd end up on 8.330, which would be 27th place. We'd then be pushing for a bye into the CL round 2, and possibly into UEFA QR2, which would mean better chance of getting into the competitions proper and getting double points to move us up further. Sounds so easy, doesn't it?!

Wiseguy

14/07/2005, 8:50 AM

If the FAI got behind every club in a big way and pumped money into the game to improve facilities and each club broke it's backside to get people through the gates we could make good strides forward in Europe but everyone needs to row into together.

Peadar

14/07/2005, 9:23 AM

If the FAI got behind every club in a big way and pumped money into the game to improve facilities...

They may do something more if they had control over the eircom League.
At the moment, the eircom League is self governing.

Poor Student

14/07/2005, 10:26 AM

Isn't there a seperate coefficient award for winning the tie too?

Slash/ED

14/07/2005, 11:24 AM

No real need to worry about catching Liechtenstein as they only have the one team

And they're not playing Longford this year so we should be okay :p

Isn't there a seperate coefficient award for winning the tie too?

No it's all about the matches which I find a bit stupid, it should simply be about who wins the tie. Some side beat another side 6-0 on tuesday, they could field some reserves next week and lose 1-0 or something like that, and both sides get the same co-efficent from that. That makes no sense to me, but that's the way it is, so if Shels can get another win in Tolka that would be fantastic.

dcfcsteve

14/07/2005, 12:22 PM

the eircom League is self governing.

Or not, as the case may be ! :eek: :)

Good to have you back in the mix Peader

ifk101

14/07/2005, 12:41 PM

With a bit of luck that will be the case. Shels will hopefully get another win next week and Longford should progress, either through a win and a draw or ideally by winning twice too, they will never face an easier side in europe. Cork it's hard to know what to make of their chances but they're bang in form so should be capable of doing something for us, if they can progress and all three teams progress that would be absolutley amazing for us.

If Longford and Shels, both favourites to win their next games do so, we're doing very well. We've been dreading loseing the 1.666 season for ages, we have a great chance to make that loss barely noticable now.

From a seeding point of view the league really needs Longford and Cork to get wins. Just noticed that Iceland's representatives are drawn against teams from Luxembourg and the Faroe Islands so Iceland is probably going to get four wins from these ties. Latvia has also gotten "favourable" draws so the onus is on Cork and Longford tonight if our representatives are going to be seeded in future years.

pineapple stu

14/07/2005, 1:09 PM

Isn't there a seperate coefficient award for winning the tie too?
Not at qualifying level, but there are bonuses for getting into the Group stages of the CL (if you look at the Bert Kassies site, you'll see that the top countries already have points even though they've not played), and possibly for winning tournaments.

higgins

14/07/2005, 3:30 PM

As soon as you get up to 25th place and gain a bye into round 2 you are again up against it. You cant get coefficient points if your not in the Round 1.

We would be playing sides who won the first round and not sides like Glentoran who are weaker then us. (sorry Glentoran!!) Its real make or break time when you get a bye and if you fail for a year or two your right back where you started but I suppose thats where we want to be so lets aim for this 2points a year and see where we get.

0.333 down 1.667 to go!!

fosterdollar

14/07/2005, 3:49 PM

As soon as you get up to 25th place and gain a bye into round 2 you are again up against it. You cant get coefficient points if your not in the Round 1.
Thats a good point, it's a Catch 22. But having played in round 2 would still stand to you in future and it shouldn't take as long to build up the coeffs

Slash/ED

14/07/2005, 3:54 PM

If you get to the second round as a seeded team and have a good club co-efficent you should be seeded in that round, so should face opposition you'd expect to beat for a place in the third round which is then a 4 game minimum from there.

There's only 3/4 teams who go straight into the second round and aren't seeded.

eirebhoy

14/07/2005, 4:15 PM

BATE from Belarus are winning 1-0 away to a team from Georgia. Not good.

higgins

14/07/2005, 4:33 PM

Somebody has to win the tie or the game so its not a major problem. As long as Irish teams are picking up points then its ok. I suppose draws will be the best way to go but if we are winning then no need to worry about others.

Troy.McClure

14/07/2005, 5:02 PM

We were happy to oblige today, and more to come from us next week :)

Kingdom

14/07/2005, 5:09 PM

Troy,
I thought I remembered you from such supporters clubs as "U is for UCD?"

Troy.McClure

14/07/2005, 5:24 PM

You may well but Im not sure that I knew too many from Kerry. I still pop out there every now and then to say hi to Aberdeen Stu, Schumi and the lads.

Kingdom

14/07/2005, 5:29 PM

You may well but Im not sure that I knew too many from Kerry. I still pop out there every now and then to say hi to Aberdeen Stu, Schumi and the lads.

I don't actually know you, it was kind of a play on your username. In the more recent posts you seem to be posing as a Cark supporter.....

Troy.McClure

14/07/2005, 5:37 PM

I don't actually know you, it was kind of a play on your username. In the more recent posts you seem to be posing as a Cark supporter.....

Agh! If I got a euro for every time.....

Ya Im a cork supporter, and I done even go to UCD anymore, Im just too lazy to change my profile :o (in true student fashion)

eirebhoy

14/07/2005, 10:02 PM

If the 3 Irish clubs keep it up we could be top of this list of 52 countries by next week:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/ccoef2006.html

CuanaD

15/07/2005, 7:30 AM

Three games, three wins, 6 goals (only 1 against) and a FULL uefa ranking point already :D So this is what it feels like to be sucessful :cool:

superfrank

15/07/2005, 9:15 AM

Am I right in thinking we got 1.0 coefficiency point already?

Do countries get more for away wins?

swinfordfc

15/07/2005, 10:00 AM

Well done to all three sides

no ye no extra points for away win.....

now if shelbourne could win next wednesday, we get another 0.33333 point and were flying :p

EnDai

15/07/2005, 1:12 PM

If we can start doing this regularly we'll quickly climb up. Especially seeing as 02/03 and 03/04 are only 0.166 and 0.333 respectively, we don't lose much there!! So anything during those years is just an added bonus!

eirebhoy

15/07/2005, 5:26 PM

1 more win and we'll match last year. 2 more wins and we'll match our best ever year since the coeffients came in.

gspain

15/07/2005, 7:55 PM

Obviously fantastic results across the board however we still need to catch 1 more country to ensure a seeded place in next season's champions league. Even despite all these results we are unlikely to progress to having 2 seeded teams in the UEFA cup.

pete

16/07/2005, 10:42 AM

Ye are getting ahead of yourselfs thinking about byes to round 2 of CL.

Requirement should be to:
1. Get all 3 teams into 2nd qualifying rounds consistently every year.
2. Get all 3 team seeded in 1st qualifying round,
3. In 3 years be in top 30 countries as opposed to top 40.

The expectation now is that all 3 teams should progress to qualifying round 2. The eL/FAI should be ready to create some media buzz with well planned PR campaign.

jorge

16/07/2005, 10:48 AM

Slowly but surely.

pete

16/07/2005, 11:09 AM

Slowly but surely.

Althought obviously teams have to take thier chance when they come. A win instead of settling for a draw could mean seeding difference later...

pineapple stu

16/07/2005, 8:12 PM

3. In 3 years be in top 30 countries as opposed to top 40.

Not much of a target - we finished last year in 38th.

higgins

16/07/2005, 9:49 PM

You dont get seeded in the Champions League by being ranked say 27th to 38th and unseeded 39th to 50th

What happens is that all 24 teams or however many there are start in that round but then the team coefficient counts as to who are seeded. If shels win the League they have an extra 1 point of their own and will, 99% anyway, be seeded.

If we pick up over 2pts this season then its highly likely too that all three teams will be seeds regardless of their team coefficient.

A bye into round 2 is not as impossible as it sounds. Once you turn the corner of not being the unseeded team you have every chance of picking up 2pts or even more and as has been pointed out, if you get 2.5pts per season for 5 years you arethen into the 20's and will receive a bye. Thats all easier said then done but not impossible.

If we take the last two years as our base we have 2.333 so far with 3 season left to get to about 13pts.

Slash/ED

16/07/2005, 9:53 PM

It's a snowball effect too. The better we do the better our seeding is so the easier it is to win and improve our seeding more, also the easier it is to attract players to come to the league, so it's not unrealistic at all to be looking at being in the second round in the not too distant future so long as we continue to go at the same rate as we are atm.

pete

16/07/2005, 10:04 PM

You dont get seeded in the Champions League by being ranked say 27th to 38th and unseeded 39th to 50th

What happens is that all 24 teams or however many there are start in that round but then the team coefficient counts as to who are seeded. If shels win the League they have an extra 1 point of their own and will, 99% anyway, be seeded.

If we pick up over 2pts this season then its highly likely too that all three teams will be seeds regardless of their team coefficient.

When teams are being ranked they are given country coefficient + team coefficient to get total.
Team coefficients only awarded for points gained past qualifying rounds. Even if never make it past qualifying rounds a higher country coefficient would get seeding e.g. Longford this season.

We've only probably averaged 40th in europe in last 5 years so i think moving past 30th in 3 years would be massive improvement.

higgins

16/07/2005, 10:30 PM

I understand all that Pete..

But you have to see that now we will be seeds for the next few years, unless we all lose in the 2nd legs next week.!!! :eek:

At the end of last season we were 38th and Bosnia were 30th with a coefficient of 7.165.

Lets strike off 2001 to 2003 and start with last years 1.333

2004 1.333
2005 1.000 ?
2006 ?????
2007 ?????
2008 ?????

Total 2.333

and that has this season and 3 more to go where we shoul be seeds.

I dont think its too hard to get up to 7.165. Its getting into the 26th or higher spot that the problem area is and its here that we need to aim for the bye into round 2.

pete

16/07/2005, 11:09 PM

This season Longford need 1.375 to sneak into Eufa Cup seeding.
Currently we at 1.155 for next year & 3 more wins would be 1.488 so would seem looking at 2 seeded teams in Uefa Cup next year.

Team Ranking (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2006.html)

In 2006 CL only Shel$ would be guaranteed seeding. Cork City have chance but i think we need to get to 1st round of Uefa Cup but even a draw would guarantee seeding.

Latvia (31st) got over 3 points last year from nowhere with some easy draws & good results. However Skonto Riga lost 6-0 in Macedonia CL game & Linfield also beat Uefa Cup team...

A face

17/07/2005, 12:23 AM

Going off the topic now but .... is there anywhere we can find out who (clubs/countries) are implementing the UEFA licening fully ?? are all clubs in the coefficient ranking all on the same parr as us ?? are they all up to scratch on the five sections of the UEFA licencing (i know its up to each league to interpret themselves etc.) ... just trying to correlate recent results to changes made in leagues, i dont think we cant attribute all this to just fitness is all.

higgins

19/07/2005, 12:13 AM

Its not just fitness ...

Its down to summer soccer and the fact most players in Europe over the past few seasons are now full time. Bringing a full time team of pros to the Champions League in the middle of their season has to make some positive change.

What I think it mainly comes down to is the SEEDS V UNSEEDS.

We have been unseeded for years and faced clubs who are better then us. Usually getting beaten by them. Over the last few seasons Bohs and shels have had some shock results and now we are nearly at a point of being seeds.

Except Cork who had a fantastic away result Shels and Longford are playing sides from weaker countries. A 6th place team in the Welsh league!! thats as good as a bye in to the next round. Also Glentoran are not going anywhere either. Easier draws will make us look better.

pete

19/07/2005, 9:41 AM

Easier draws will make us look better.

Sssshhhh ;)

eirebhoy

20/07/2005, 8:40 PM

36 Macedonia 4.664
37 Liechtens. 4.500
38 Iceland 4.499
39 Belarus 3.915
40 Ireland 3.498

Shels won and the team from Belarus lost so the gap is much smaller now (might aswell be equal).
The team from Iceland are currently drawing 1-1 at home after 65 minutes.
The team from Macedonia lost 1-0.

GavinZac

20/07/2005, 8:49 PM

eirebhoy

20/07/2005, 9:08 PM

The team from Iceland lost 2-1 away to a team from Azerbaijan.

we can jump them this round if longford & cork both win & Belorussia's teams lose
They both won away last week so I can't see them both losing. Lets hope so though.

pete

21/07/2005, 9:04 AM

Iceland & Belarus have lost their CL teams so good chance to pass them now. Looks like eL will likely be very close to mid 30's countries for catching them in future seasons...

EnDai

21/07/2005, 9:42 AM

37 Liechtenstein 0.500 1.000 0.000 2.000 1.000 4.500 1/ 1
38 Iceland 0.833 0.166 0.500 2.500 0.500 4.499 2/ 3
39 Belarus 0.750 1.166 0.666 0.500 0.833 3.915 2/ 3
40 Ireland 0.666 0.166 0.333 1.333 1.333 3.831 3/ 3

Roll on the good times! :D

Poor Student

21/07/2005, 11:41 AM

There's a few countries there in the mid 20's who could be set to take a fair coefficient hit over the next few years. Slovakia will lose 3.5 from 01/02 next year and their champions only won one leg of their tie and go on to face ****** in the next round. Slovenia who are going to lose 1.5 from 01/02 have had their champions knocked out too, though one of their UEFA Cup entrants only have to play a San Marino side and their other one has a bye to the 2nd round. However I reckon they're going to go down 0.5. Bosnia who are 30th had their champs knocked out by a side from Luxembourg (no side from there has won a tie in 42 years). Bosnia have a 3.0 which will disappear in a few years so they could be on the slide too. We've got to try and get over 2.0 this year and then every year consistently and we will rise. Next year we will lose a 0.666 which though is pathetic is still one of our better scores. However the next few years we'll shed some pathetic ones.

EnDai

21/07/2005, 11:54 AM

2007 and 2008 will basically be free years for us, as the scores we lose are worthless. So lets hope we start building up some European momentum! :) Cork and Longford winning now as well as a good home result (win!) for Shels against Steaua will have us reeling in the higher teams at a frantic pace. If we can get 7 games played by the end of next week, with no losses, and 6 (or 7!) wins, it would just be incredible!!

ifk101

21/07/2005, 12:02 PM

I think getting by Iceland is the immediate aim as based on UEFA's seeding system for the UEFA Cup, ie Northern, Central, Southern qualification groups, Iceland are our nearest competitor for seedings in the first qualifiy round. By my reckoning if we dont surpass Iceland's ranking score this year there is a strong likelihood that our representatives wont be seeded in next year's UEFA cup. Shelbourne, if they qualify for Europe next year, will be seeded based on their team coefficient but everyone else.....

We need to get by those Icelandic sheep-head eaters.

Poor Student

21/07/2005, 12:04 PM

Assuming its Cork in the CL next year, are they likely to be seeded?

EnDai

21/07/2005, 12:04 PM

I'd imagine its possible to bypass Lichenstein aswell, results depending of course, but I'd expect Cork to at least challenege strongly for, if not qualify for, the UEFA 1st Round proper. There's at least 4 more games for us to play, probably 8 though in reality, with hopefully even more after that! :D

ifk101

21/07/2005, 12:20 PM

Assuming its Cork in the CL next year, are they likely to be seeded?

Yes. The champions league first qualifying round is divided into 10 seeded and 10 unseeded teams. Currently there are ten leagues that enter a team in the champion league ranked below us. I dont think any of those countries have a team that would have a higher team ranking than what Cork will have if they win the league. However UEFA is not particularly fond of Armenia and Kazakhstan so if their league champions are not "allowed" to enter the competition next year Cork could be unseeded depending on the coefficient score the league is able to build this year. That's why both Cork and Longford need to win their matches next week.