UEFSA Coefficients Thread

[thejollyrodger]

ranking--country------ 01/02-----02/03----03/04----04/05---05/06--rank06
37 Iceland 0.833 0.166 0.500 2.500 0.833 4.832
38 Liechtenstein 0.500 1.000 0.000 2.000 1.000 4.500
39 Belarus 0.750 1.166 0.666 0.500 1.333 4.415
40 Ireland 0.666 0.166 0.333 1.333 1.833 4.331

updated last night at 9pm CET
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2006.html

In the first round proper a draw equal 1.0 co efficent points and a win equals 2.0 co efficent points.

So, if Cork get a win : (1.0) / 3 = 0.333 + 4.331 = 4.664

We would jump to 38th position. The rest of the teams are not in the competition anymore. Right the way up to 32nd (Finland). Excellent progress. But it all depends on the draw.

[eirebhoy]

A draw in one game in the next round would be huge. While it would be nice to catch Liechtenstein and Iceland it is imperative we catch Belarus.
As I said, no matter what happens now, once Cork get 1 draw we will jump ahead of Belarus and Liechtenstein. A win and we're ahead of Iceland.

[Dodge]

As I said, no matter what happens now, once Cork get 1 draw
No matter what happens, if Cork lose we get nothing

[thejollyrodger]

always the optimist eh dodge

[Dodge]

Think Cork will get a result in Cork no matter who they're playing tbh. I was just pointing out the oxymoron of saying "No matter what, once..."

[eirebhoy]

No matter what happens, if Cork lose we get nothing
I was replying to:

"A draw in one game in the next round would be huge. While it would be nice to catch Liechtenstein and Iceland it is imperative we catch Belarus."

Its impossible to go ahead of Belarus without also going ahead of Liechtenstein. Thats all I'm saying.

[Poor Student]

Think Cork will get a result in Cork no matter who they're playing tbh.

Just like they did against Ekranas a month ago?

[tiktok]

Just like they did against Ekranas a month ago?

They got everything wrong that night, tactics, effort etc.
They thought the job was done from the first leg and got complacent.
it's unlikely to happen again.
I'd hope we'd get a home draw anyway

Are there no Belarus sides left in competition though??????????

[pete]

I noticed that outside the top 30 countries only Finland & ourslves have any team left in Europe.

Last night was the opposite of Ekranas as all our attacking players turned up last night.

[gspain]

My understanding is that a draw is worth .16666 so we may not end up ahea dof Liechtenstein.

However that is really irrelevant. A draw means we go ahead of Belarus which really matters.

[EnDai]

Its worth 0.333 for the country co-eff in this stage now.

[jorge]

So what are we on now?

[swinfordfc]

That Finland team thats left is Mypa who beat dundee utd on away goal rule
from countries ranked 52 up to 33, the only team left is Cork City so well done to cork as prove of this they shouldn't have got this far but they have!!!!

[swinfordfc]

ranking points of 1.833 our hoghest for a season ever

[higgins]

Yes Cork are the only team left from the bottom 20 countries!! :) Same happened last season with Shels when they played Lille!

Also its interesting to note (for me anyway ;) ) that our overall aim is to get ranked 25th or better as its countries ranked 25th or higher that get byes into the second round and therefore the easier draws!

At present Croatia are 25th and Sweden are 26th :eek:

We have beaten their teams the last two seasons!!

[swinfordfc]

Fair point higgins so it does shows theat the EL is going in the right direction

[pete]

Country Ranking Points from seeding view is now 1.430 for next season. Based on this years draw thats enough to get both Uefa Cup team seeded in 1st qualifying round next year.

Probably not enough for CL 1st qualifying round seeding.

[bigmac]

Also its interesting to note (for me anyway ;) ) that our overall aim is to get ranked 25th or better as its countries ranked 25th or higher that get byes into the second round and therefore the easier draws!


Just wondering, from a co-efficient point of view, would we not be better to be top seeded country in the first round - hence get home and away game against total minnows and be assured of points?

In saying that though, any team should be expected to beat a team from a league with a lower coefficient so if our position is deserved we should be ok.

[higgins]

I think Ive had this one about 10 times at this stage Bigmac :)

Ask yourself why we are talking about coefficients in the first place?

Its not so as we can ring up our croatian or swedish friends and say that we have more points then them! We are in the business of getting coefficient point so as to progress up the european ladder. Staying in the first rounds as seeds every season is all well and good but the aim of the game is to get as high as possible which means at some stage we will have 4 teams in europe and byes into qualifying round two.

[bigmac]

I think Ive had this one about 10 times at this stage Bigmac :)

Ask yourself why we are talking about coefficients in the first place?

Its not so as we can ring up our croatian or swedish friends and say that we have more points then them! We are in the business of getting coefficient point so as to progress up the european ladder. Staying in the first rounds as seeds every season is all well and good but the aim of the game is to get as high as possible which means at some stage we will have 4 teams in europe and byes into qualifying round two.


:o okey doke

[pete]

I believe we are some way from skipping the 1st qualifying rounds. 1 Step at a time.

[pineapple stu]

My understanding is that a draw is worth .16666 so we may not end up ahead of Liechtenstein.
Double points now in the main draw.

[bigmac]

I believe we are some way from skipping the 1st qualifying rounds. 1 Step at a time.
Still quite a way off a bye to the second round, I think it's only the top 24 or 25 countries. How does the club coefficient thing work? Is it added to the country coefficient?

[pineapple stu]

I think it's one-third of your country's coefficient plus whatever you earn yourself in non-qualifying rounds.

[Sliogán Dóite]

You're right there Ted!

[thejollyrodger]

If Eircom league clubs continue to get 1.666 co-efficent points each year then we will be 30th by 2008/2009.

(Ive posted this before but I dont think people read the thread before they post.)

Going from 30th to 25th is a big jump. Basically we will need a club in the group stages of either the Champions League or UEFA Cup getting a few wins or draws EACH season. I think we can get the 1.666 each season but taking it to the next level will need some effort.

Someone pointed out that once we go above 30th to 25th spot there is going to be seasons where we have an extra european spot and seasons that we dont. A bit of a yo yo effect.

[pineapple stu]

Who's Ted then, Ted?

Coincidence you saying that - I actually work for Fr Dougal's brother... :p

[pineapple stu]

I think we can get the 1.666 each season but taking it to the next level will need some effort.
Don't foget that if each of the three teams wins both legs of their first-round tie and loses both legs of their second tie, that's 2.000 straight off. The scores do stretch alright, but that's due to teams getting double points outside qualifying rounds. As we get better, we'll get there more often - as we're seeing already.

Next three years will be very interesting though.

[thejollyrodger]

Very few teams win both of their legs in the first round AFAIK. Its hard IMO. I cant see it happening. You can get a tricky draw as well in the second round so 1.666 is a reasonable target.

However we should expect at least 2 teams to progress to the second round and one team to the 3rd round for the next season or two in either the CL or UC.

[gspain]

Country Ranking Points from seeding view is now 1.430 for next season. Based on this years draw thats enough to get both Uefa Cup team seeded in 1st qualifying round next year.

Probably not enough for CL 1st qualifying round seeding.

It is your country's position that determines the seedings in the absenc eof the club coefficient. We are one place off a seeding for the champions league so if Cork get a draw we jump Belarus into the last seeded place for the 1st round.

How do you work that out on the UEFA Cup? Assuming they use the same regional groupings we have not moved ahead of any of the seeded teams in this year's draw (note the countries). We are still behind Iceland, Lithuania etc so will be touch and go for seeding in the UEFA Cup depending on the Fair play entrants and club coefficients. If Shels were to take the UEFA spot they would definitely be seeded.

Note we are also fortunate to have a seeding here as Macedonia has a higher coefficient and lose out on regional grounds.

Viking Stavanger Nor 12.665
Esbjerg fB Den 6.676
FK Ventspils Lat 3.199
Metalurgs Liepaja Lat 2.199
MyPa-47 Fin 2.158
Allianssi Vantaa Fin 2.158
Ekranas Panevezys Lit 1.760
Atlantas Klaipeda Lit 1.760
IBK Keflavik Isl 1.594
IBV Vestmannaeyjar Isl 1.594

[higgins]

Its tough but when you are a seed there is no reason why not..

When we had 3 wins in the first leg it was looking like 2points and all 3 teams in the 2nd round :eek: Not going to happen every season but instead here we are with only Cork left and at 1.833 or whatever it is.

shels got two win 0.666
Cork only had one and there recent two draws (fantastic result may I add) has really only got back the points they should have bagged in the 1st leg
Longford only got 1 win and even using the shels steaua draw we are still not at 2 when really we should be.

Decent 1st Round draws like the ones we had this season do not come around often.

[pineapple stu]

Very few teams win both of their legs in the first round AFAIK. It's hard IMO. I can't see it happening. You can get a tricky draw as well in the second round so 1.666 is a reasonable target.
True, though that's why I compensated by saying each team loses both their seconr round games.


Decent 1st Round draws like the ones we had this season do not come around often.
On the contrary, Cork weren't seeded this year. If both Irish teams are seeded next year, we'll get an easier draw (in theory) than Ekranes. Both the seeded teams drew middle-ranking unseeded teams, so that's the average quality we can expect to draw when seeded.

[higgins]

Yeah I know Cork were not seeded and said at the time they had the toughest game of all 3 but having won the first leg I was expecting another 0.333 :( Probably not fair to put cork into this as the result away was as unexpected as the one at home.

1.666 after QR1 would have been a more relistic target before we kicked a ball.

Yes but to think you might be playing unseeded Cakemakers Utd or Ekranes in the QR2 is fantastic :p Its easier the DIF thats for sure!

[pete]

Uefa ranking in this seasons draw (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seeduc2005.html)

If you look here can see than Longford got seeded on 1.375 but we now have 1.430 country points for next season. I'm obviously basing this on same regional draw next year.

[thejollyrodger]

some people were making wild predictions for our co-efficent next season but football is a funny old game as they say. Shelbourne strengthed their squad but couldnt match the result like last year and were not going to be in Europe at this rate.

Longford town type teams dont cut it in European games and I wouldnt want to rely on them for co-efficent points. Sorry to say it longford but the cup is the only thing your good at.

Im not sure what Derry are like in European games, some clubs are really up for it like CCFC and Shels but other are questionable.

Just because you are seeded, it doesnt mean that you will win all your games.

I would take 1.666 for next season now.

[higgins]

If you look here can see than Longford got seeded on 1.375 but we now have 1.430 country points for next season. I'm obviously basing this on same regional draw next year.

Jumping longford would only push longford back down :confused:

its the 1.5xx you should be looking at

anyway as most teams in the first round would not have a team coefficient your best way of looking at it is the country ranking tables and seeing if we have passed any of the seeded countries from last season. We have not passed any out sadly and would be unseeded again unless Cork get some more points.

[fosterdollar]

Longford town type teams dont cut it in European games and I wouldnt want to rely on them for co-efficent points. Sorry to say it longford but the cup is the only thing your good at.

.
Have you even seen the league table lately?

[pete]

I'm optimistic that Derry can get past a 1st qualifying round as Kenny has european experience & they know how to pass the ball.

Hoofball does not cut it in Europe.

[gspain]

Uefa ranking in this seasons draw (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seeduc2005.html)

If you look here can see than Longford got seeded on 1.375 but we now have 1.430 country points for next season. I'm obviously basing this on same regional draw next year.

I still don't see the improvement.

We had 1 team seeded and 1 unseeded this season. We have not passed the Icelandic coefficient so how do you make out we'll have both teams seeded next season?

[Schumi]

Assuming the regions are the same as this year, I make it that Cork need a win or two draws in the next round to get both teams seeded next year (or a draw if they and Shels end up in the UEFA somehow). Otherwise we'll have one seeded and one not.

How do they decide who is seeded when the two teams have the same co-efficient BTW?

[dancinpants]

Have you even seen the league table lately?

Seen your GF and GA stats recently? :rolleyes:


I'm optimistic that Derry can get past a 1st qualifying round as Kenny has european experience & they know how to pass the ball.

Hoofball does not cut it in Europe.

I would hope your right Pete, coz in fairness we haven't exactly blazed a trail in Europe since joining the LOI - alot of very disappointing results. Some decent ones but mostly disappointing.

[thejollyrodger]

I still don't see the improvement.

We had 1 team seeded and 1 unseeded this season. We have not passed the Icelandic coefficient so how do you make out we'll have both teams seeded next season?

if your talking about our position in the co-efficent then we lost 1.666 5 years ago and we got 1.888 this season so its hasnt changed. But we only got .333 for a few seasons i think and we will jump 10 positions in 3 years all going according to plan

[pineapple stu]

Incidentally, I think everyone's overlooking the fact that the top two seeded teams in the Northern Region - Viking and Esbjerg - qualified through the Fair Play award. If only one of the three teams next year is in the northern region - or if they're from a lower league than us - both eL teams will be seeded, all else remaining unchanged.

[higgins]

At the moment the Fair Play places mean we will be unseeded your correct. Also a lot depends on UEFA and which teams they fire into the Northern secion. They can use Vaduz if they end up with an uneven number too so that will push us down as hey are ranked 38h mainly due to the wins against Longford :(

If Shels and Derry get the UEFA spots ( hopefully :) ) then Derry would lose out by the looks of it.

[paudie]

How do they decide who is seeded when the two teams have the same co-efficient BTW?

Longford were seeded over City this as they won the Cup.

[paudie]

Incidentally, I think everyone's overlooking the fact that the top two seeded teams in the Northern Region - Viking and Esbjerg - qualified through the Fair Play award. If only one of the three teams next year is in the northern region - or if they're from a lower league than us - both eL teams will be seeded, all else remaining unchanged.

City could have been seeded this year if the FP draw had been kinder.

[Schumi]

If only one of the three teams [from the fair play award] next year is in the northern region - or if they're from a lower league than us - both eL teams will be seeded, all else remaining unchanged.
Or if they are us!

[thejollyrodger]

Attached is the updated excel spread sheet. I included the co efficent that Cork can get from the next two games against Slavia. We can jump to 36th or 37th with the same co efficent if cork get a win and a draw. just a draw would bring us to 38th.

God knows where the league would be if cork made it to the group stages

[higgins]

Well its clear that 1 DRAW will jump Belarus and make Cork SEEDED for the Champions League next season, should they get there ;)

Derry if they are to get into the UEFA Cup should really have their eye on Iceland who they would need to jump to be SEEDED in the northern section as we usually see Fair Play teams coming from this section and Shels if they make it would be the SEEDS straight away pushing Derry further down.


One thing I would like to mention and its mainly to do with some Cork fans that post here. Last season at this stage we had many a thread started and many posts added to threads similar to these saying how great it would be for Shels to get beaten. Some of you still post here today but I'm happy that all EL fans are behind Cork this season and the small mindedness some of you showed last year has ceased to exist. I remember trying to stress how good results against Lille could swing it in your favour but some idiots couldn't see that :(

[thejollyrodger]

Derry if they are to get into the UEFA Cup should really have their eye on Iceland who they would need to jump to be SEEDED

They have a very good chance of getting that. Two draws or 1 win against Slavia would do that.

I just wonder what shels have to do to get a UEFA Cup spot.