UEFSA Coefficients Thread

[pete]

One thing I would like to mention and its mainly to do with some Cork fans that post here. Last season at this stage we had many a thread started and many posts added to threads similar to these saying how great it would be for Shels to get beaten. Some of you still post here today but I'm happy that all EL fans are behind Cork this season and the small mindedness some of you showed last year has ceased to exist. I remember trying to stress how good results against Lille could swing it in your favour but some idiots couldn't see that :(

I don't see how it is small minded. Rivalry exist more in football than possibly any other sport. I think you will find reasonable support from eL fans up to a point. Is it wrong to not want your rival to get too powerful.

I'm sure Derry fans would like us to make Uefa Group stages as helps their title challenge. Most first division fans will support whoever is in Europe as success for top teams is no threat to them.

People are entitled to their opinions.

[thejollyrodger]

Opinions are one thing but it was pretty vicious last season. I didnt think people would get that worked up over Eircom League clubs. Im glad to see fellow Shelbourne supporters wishing Cork City well in Europe this season.

Cork really should get a result against this Slavia team. They should even go through TBF and best of luck to them.

[higgins]

Is it wrong to not want your rival to get too powerful.

A rise in tide lifts all boats Pete!!

Your just to bitter to appreciate that :(
What do you mean Derry fans want Cork to get into UEFA because its good for them?? They want you to get in the same way I do and most other EL fans do, so as there will be more money and interest in the EL!!

Its idiotic to hope EL teams get bad results in Europe. I thought the Bohs fans were the only ones who failed to see this up until last season when a lot of Cork fans on here posted messages wishing shels be knocked out. How the f**k is it rivalry when they play in a competition that your club is not even in!! ...

And even if you have no love for Shels or whoever it may be in Europe for purely selfish reasons in terms of the Irish coefficient you should be behind them to get a result.

Do you really think that if the english/Italian/Spanish teams began to lose in Europe that their league would be as strong as it is??? Unless you want to play in front of a few thousand each week and score brownie points by exaggerating your crowds then I suggest you open your eyes to the bigger picture!!

[patsh]

Cork really should get a result against this Slavia team. They should even go through TBF and best of luck to them.

I would have thought they were a very, very good side and we'll be extremely lucky to get a result, so I'm surprised to see someone say we "should" go through.
Do you know much about them?

[Vitruvian Man]

A rise in tide lifts all boats Pete!!


Can you explain how this is the case - because I can't see it.

Most fans of "challenging" clubs were rooting for Shels opposition in the champions league because making the group stages would bring Shels to a Rosenborg style dominance of the EL.

Maybe the rising tide would mean Bohs and Corks advertising revenue would be increased and we'd be on telly more often (when we played Shels) but Rosenborg managed to win the Norwegien league 13 times in a row (correct me if I'm wrong Reiteoir) - how are all our boats lifted in that scenario or even a less extreme version of the same, like Scotland for example.

It is easy for you to talk about rising boats because Shels would be a half-mile-long floating tuna factory and everybody else would be in dinghys.

Now us Bohs fans have our own bitter reason to want Shels to go out of the CL but, the point above is still a valid one. People don't mind wishing Cork well this year because the UEFA Cup will not give them the same dominance. But be assured that if Cork (or Derry) manage to emulate Shels last year and get on the edge of the CL group stages then I will be cheering for whatever FC Elbonia team they are playing against (and so, probably, will you).

[thejollyrodger]

I would have thought they were a very, very good side and we'll be extremely lucky to get a result, so I'm surprised to see someone say we "should" go through.
Do you know much about them?

I know a few things about them. They are the poor cousins of sparta for a start and they are having a very poor start to their season. Check out
http://www.slavia.cz/index_en.asp. Won one, drew one and lost one. The game they won 3-2 was a hard fought battle. They let in 4 goals in another match. Its all about form and it looks like they are having a real hang over from their exploits last season.

As for supporting other clubs in Europe , well the better Eircom League clubs do in Europe the better for everyone. Better results mean the clubs are improving - players fitness, footballing ability, concentration levels etc. There is no substitute for playing against quality opposition week in week out. So other EL clubs should improve as well. Its what happens in every othe league. Its in every EL clubs intrest to do well in Europe.

More people will follow the league if they know the standard of football is as good as other European leagues. Bigger attendences mean more money through gate receipts, sponsorship, tv and media coverage, which all mean the clubs get bigger and better, stadia will improve, even things like referring and player eligible to play for Ireland will improve.

[EnDai]

I'm sure Derry fans would like us to make Uefa Group stages as helps their title challenge. Most first division fans will support whoever is in Europe as success for top teams is no threat to them.

And then there are those of us who want to see the league as a whole develop, and realise that one of the main contributors to improvement will be success in Europe, and as a result are behind all Irish teams when in Europe. Even Cork. :eek:

[bigmac]

Most fans of "challenging" clubs were rooting for Shels opposition in the champions league because making the group stages would bring Shels to a Rosenborg style dominance of the EL.


But look at Norway now, with 2 teams in the CL (one didn't make it to the group stages), a healthy domestic league and the ability to attract Norwegian players back to Norway instead of playing in England. Ronny Johnsen, Steffen Iversen for example. Not world class players but not complete has beens either. Would the league have progressed like this without Rosenborg being so successful and setting a benchmark for the other teams? Probably not. The hope would be that it wouldn't take 13 years for other Irish teams to catch Shels (or Cork) if they had made the group stages.

[higgins]

But be assured that if Cork (or Derry) manage to emulate Shels last year and get on the edge of the CL group stages then I will be cheering for whatever FC Elbonia team they are playing against (and so, probably, will you).

If Cork are on the verge of Group Stages Champions League next season I would probably be in Lansdowne Road cheering them on or at th very least sitting in a bar somehwere cheering them on :)

Why have you used Rosenborg as an example?
Why have you failed to add to that the countless other teamswho have broke into the group stages of the Champions League and never done it again?? Rosenborg were receiveing major funding before they had this so called breakthrough!! In fact they are in the Group stages this seaon yet are in the bottom half of the league in Norway with 8 games to go!! I very much doubt breaking into the CL will bring 13 league titles in a row but if thats your fear then I see why you shout for the opposition :D

and to whoever asked why I think a rise in tide will lift all boats....

Taking a few leagues off the top of my head
Spain Italy england Gemany France .. all these countries get teams into the CL group stages on a regular basis and all these countries have teams with better plaers then what we have in the EL, better stadiums, better crowds, more coverage and so on.

Now lets take
Wales, Malta, Northern Ireland, Belarus, Iceland .. all these countries have neve had a team in the group stages of the CL. All these leagues have poor crowds lack basic stadiums and do not get any kind of international coverage.

Do you seriously think we can improve as a league by having no Irish side progress in European competition??

[thejollyrodger]

Norway arent really a footballing nation. They follow it a little but even when they had Rosenborg in the Champions League group stages there was very poor attendences in their home games and even lower attendences in the rest of the league. The public only turned up for the CL games. Rosenborg are in free fall now. They have nothing coming through. They wont be in the CL next season thats for sure.

Rosenborg were recieving huge funding and the fact that they collapsed the way they have just shows how weak things are in Norway. They had over 13 years of dominance and the fact they are crap now is an indication of how poor the league must be. Look at the underage development Ireland has, Rosenborg have nothing like that. My point being, Rosenborg more or less bought the CL spot.

Compare that with the progress Ireland has made by getting to 3 world cup finals. Its a whole industry here now at international level, everything from the media, to the players, coaches, managers, money, training, etc etc. The same will happen once we get a few clubs regularly into UEFA CUP and Champions League group stages. In short were a sporting nation, especially with soccer.

A spanish friend pointed out to me its really all about the league. He said the league is almost more important than Europe but you want to do well in Europe because its a way of measuring how good your own domestic football is. (Thats where it all began all those years ago). If you dont really like supporting your league week in week out then its never going to last.

To do well in Europe you have to do well in your own league. Once you get there you come back playing better which benefits all your other club teams. I would support any EL team in Europe. It only makes sense. You would find the same logic in Spain, England, Holland etc.

[Mayo Red]

As for supporting other clubs in Europe , well the better Eircom League clubs do in Europe the better for everyone. Better results mean the clubs are improving - players fitness, footballing ability, concentration levels etc. There is no substitute for playing against quality opposition week in week out. So other EL clubs should improve as well. Its what happens in every othe league. Its in every EL clubs intrest to do well in Europe.

More people will follow the league if they know the standard of football is as good as other European leagues. Bigger attendences mean more money through gate receipts, sponsorship, tv and media coverage, which all mean the clubs get bigger and better, stadia will improve, even things like referring and player eligible to play for Ireland will improve.

Agreed, if the quality and profile of the league is to improve we should all support our representatives in Europe and set aside our differences for a couple of games. The very suggestion of cheering on a foreign team against an Irish side smacks of pettiness and is an example of the smallmindedness that is holding the league back. While a healthy rivalry is an integral part of football, we need to pull together to raise standards and attract more support and investment to the league. Success in Europe, albeit modest at present is just one way of achieving this.