Embarrassment of riches: who is Ireland's best goalkeeper?

[John83]

They will probably go with the tried and trusted as it would be a mite embarrassing for the super-wealthy owners if the promising young fella did not work out. It would be one hell of an interesting punt ( especially for us ) mind.
Likely, but they're in an odd position where a lot of elite talent won't be keen to move to Newcastle or to move to a club that's doing so poorly. They probably need to overpay for some compromise candidates for a while until they qualify for Europe again. Dunne and Given were beneficiaries of that kind of situation at Man City, for example. (Perhaps a little unfairly to them, them being more unfashionable than below the required standard, but that's old news.)

[seanfhear]

Likely, but they're in an odd position where a lot of elite talent won't be keen to move to Newcastle or to move to a club that's doing so poorly. They probably need to overpay for some compromise candidates for a while until they qualify for Europe again. Dunne and Given were beneficiaries of that kind of situation at Man City, for example. (Perhaps a little unfairly to them, them being more unfashionable than below the required standard, but that's old news.)
It’s an interesting situation at Newcastle alright ~ all that dough and still a lot of players won’t want to go there. Do the presenting “ spending controls “ affect the Newcastle situation much and of course is the present Newcastle goalkeeper of a high quality ?

[Stuttgart88]

How can he ( or anybody else ) be sure that he belongs at a high level consistently until he plays at a high level consistently. As it goes Liverpool had a lot of goalkeeping problems before signing Allison.I'm talking about the air of confidence he has. He seems to have a lot of self-belief. That's clear to see. The Paul Rowan article in the other thread highlights it too.

[Stuttgart88]

It’s an interesting situation at Newcastle alright ~ all that dough and still a lot of players won’t want to go there. Do the presenting “ spending controls “ affect the Newcastle situation much and of course is the present Newcastle goalkeeper of a high quality ?Dubravka(?) is very good imho.

[ontheotherhand]

I was looking through the EPL keepers to see who might be on their last legs and got as far as seeing that Kasper Schmeichel is now 35 and had to stop.

[pineapple stu]

And has an 11-year-old son. So Peter was a grandfather at the age of 46.

Mad stuff.

[seanfhear]

And has an 11-year-old son. So Peter was a grandfather at the age of 46.

Mad stuff.
An 11 year old seems a bit young to start as a premier league goalkeeper. Peter and Kasper really should have started the succession process earlier ~ poor planning really.

[John83]

It's fine. Kasper just has to keep playing until he's 42 and the young fella will be ready.

[tetsujin1979]

Dean Kiely on managing Ireland's "glut of top goalkeepers"
https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/dean-kiely-managing-irelands-glut-of-top-goalkeepers-1295750

[Trequartista20]

I thought the correct expression was 'an embarrassment of riches'.

You can also have an 'embarrassment of pandas', which is one of the collective nouns for this particular animal. So, why not an 'embarrassment of goalies'?

Having a number of talented young Irish goalkeepers to call upon has been about as rare as a horny panda, until recently, I guess.

I still think Kelleher's the best we've got, right now, but Bazanu - what a talent! And Travers has really stepped this year; and, let's not forget, of those available to us, is playing (regularly) at the highest level of the three.

[John83]

I thought the correct expression was 'an embarrassment of riches'.
So it is. I guess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

[third policeman]

How can he ( or anybody else ) be sure that he belongs at a high level consistently until he plays at a high level consistently. As it goes Liverpool had a lot of goalkeeping problems before signing Allison.

It’s called confidence and Kelleher has bags of it, and Bazunu does as well to be fair.

[seanfhear]

It’s called confidence and Kelleher has bags of it, and Bazunu does as well to be fair.
The correct amount of confidence is a beautiful but finely balanced thing ~ like a good goalkeeper.

[geysir]

And has an 11-year-old son. So Peter was a grandfather at the age of 46.

Mad stuff.
That's not mad for a Nordic country, Eidur Gudjohnsen's dad became a grandad aged 38.
Eidur's first son is 3 years older than one of his brothers.
46 is getting on a bit to be waiting for your first grandchild.

[ontheotherhand]

I see Travers now has the 3rd highest save percentage in the top 4 English leagues, behind Mendy and Sa. He could be the first, first choice EPL keeper of the 3.

https://punditarena.com/football/rudi-kinsella/mark-travers-irish-goalkeepers/

[third policeman]

That's not mad for a Nordic country, Eidur Gudjohnsen's dad became a grandad aged 38.
Eidur's first son is 3 years older than one of his brothers.
46 is getting on a bit to be waiting for your first grandchild.

I remember being deeply confused by a friend at primary school who had uncles who were younger than himself.

[Diggs246]

Ian harte and Gary Kelly were in that boat

[Trequartista20]

I remember being deeply confused by a friend at primary school who had uncles who were younger than himself.

We all have those sexual confusions at that age.

Do not confuse yourself; it's healthy.

[Insidetherock]

Who cares at this stage.. we seem to have three crackers.. and looks like plenty options at centre half now too.. surely we could turn one of those decent ball playing centre halfs into a defensive midfielder a la Big Paul.. O Shea, Collins.. no?

[pineapple stu]

Are we that stacked at centre-half?

For the three September games, we only called up four, and when O'Shea got injured in the first game, we ended up playing our only three centre-halves for the rest of the fixture list. Omo is young but unproven - shaky in Portugal, excellent against Serbia, not getting his game for a dire Norwich team.

Collins has made his debut since, which is good. There's the great Clark debate, and Lenihan at Blackburn is being similarly ignored, though he's captaining a side second in the Championship. Dunne is doing well at QPR it seems, and Kevin Long is still in the Premier League with Burnley somehow. And we can drop a wing-half or two into the centre if we're stuck (but that's not ideal). Bagan and McGuinness are coming through at Cardiff, but it seems a bit early yet to consider them for the senior squad.

I wouldn't mind seeing us expand on our options in the March friendlies tbh.

[Razors left peg]

Expand how? We can't magically pull players out of thin air to play. We are relatively stacked, considering the recent past, at center half with young players coming through, but much like the keepers it'll be a few years before we know just how good they will be. Collins, O'Shea and Omobamidele are 3 very young players who already have Premiership minutes. From our point of view that is stacked. Especially when u add them to what we already have with the others.

On a different note, I keep seeing that Kenny should try this player or that in the March friendlies. Yet he'll get hammered if we don't get results in those games. We have momentum now that he needs to continue. The March friendlies can't be used as almost B games to look at guys

[pineapple stu]

Expand as in bring new options into the senior team. Give Collins a full debut, call up Dunne, re-consider Lenihan.

Centre-back was always a strong position for us, and I don't think three very good defenders (Duffy, O'Shea, Egan) and one very promising starlet (Omo) is quite what I'd define as "relatively stacked" when we play three at the back.

But yeah, certainly I agree that we can't just go playing out a B team in March. There's a couple of other positions where I'd be more concerned about looking at medium-term replacements (wing back the obvious one) and the dire issues up front have to be addressed too.

[tetsujin1979]

They're the last chance for new players to be added ahead of the nation's league games in June.
I'd hope to see at least two new caps awarded.
Incidentally, if Kenny awards three new caps, he will have given as many debuts in his time in charge as Brian Kerr did in his

[JR89]

Are we that stacked at centre-half?

For the three September games, we only called up four, and when O'Shea got injured in the first game, we ended up playing our only three centre-halves for the rest of the fixture list. Omo is young but unproven - shaky in Portugal, excellent against Serbia, not getting his game for a dire Norwich team.

Collins has made his debut since, which is good. There's the great Clark debate, and Lenihan at Blackburn is being similarly ignored, though he's captaining a side second in the Championship. Dunne is doing well at QPR it seems, and Kevin Long is still in the Premier League with Burnley somehow. And we can drop a wing-half or two into the centre if we're stuck (but that's not ideal). Bagan and McGuinness are coming through at Cardiff, but it seems a bit early yet to consider them for the senior squad.

I wouldn't mind seeing us expand on our options in the March friendlies tbh.

We called up five in September but Collins got injured before the Portugal game.

[pineapple stu]

OK, fair point. So if we take Collins as a squad regular, we have three good centre-halves (none at particularly prominent clubs in fairness - Brighton, West Brom and Sheffield United) and two promising starlets with ten PL games between them. It's down the list of concerning positions for sure, but I wouldn't quite call us "stacked" yet.

[ontheotherhand]

OK, fair point. So if we take Collins as a squad regular, we have three good centre-halves (none at particularly prominent clubs in fairness - Brighton, West Brom and Sheffield United) and two promising starlets with ten PL games between them. It's down the list of concerning positions for sure, but I wouldn't quite call us "stacked" yet.

It's about the same as GK really, minus the very established options like Coleman/Egan/Duffy (unless you count Randolph which I'm not sure we should anymore). Calling either position stacked depends on where you think Ireland are in terms of player quality. I think we have 3 very good options in goals now. Some would say we have only 3 promising options..some would say we only have 1 absolutely world class option with 2 who should retire from football immediately in disgrace. In the same way I think we have good depth at CB now so I'd call it stacked in relative terms.

Compared to wingback/centre mid/forward, both GK and CB are in good shape no?

[pineapple stu]

Well, you only have to play one keeper, but three centre-backs.

But yeah, I think GK and CB are our two areas of least concern. I agree with tets that it'd be nice to see 2/3 new caps in March (maybe let's extend that to starts for players with less than 5 caps). That of course depends on who we're playing, and it's why I don't really want to see us playing France/Belgium/England as mooted, much and all as I know why the FAI need the money.

I think if you rank where we are across the various positions -

Forward - we're desperate. Robinson has, let's be honest, quite possibly saved Kenny's job, yet he's only an ok Championship forward really. Still, he's our best choice. Idah, Connolly and Parrott - I wouldn't have them near the pitch in March unless something changes at club level; they've made no impact in 30+ caps between them. Never been convinced by James Collins or Curtis; Maguire keeps getting his game for Preston but hardly ever scores, so I don't know if he's playing deeper or what, but we've enough forwards who can't score already; Ogbene and Horgan are lovable triers who are great to have but their position in League One kind of flags their inconsistency too; Long I think we can happily retire (with thanks for that goal against Germany particular). Keane, Scully and Hogan are maybe the three to look at here, with the usual reservations about the third tier in general.

Wing-back - succession planning is a growing concern. McClean, Doherty, Stevens, Brady and Coleman are all solid options, but they'll all be the wrong side of 30 by March and probably they've all past their peak in a very energetic position (you could argue Doherty maybe just needs a move). I'd like to see some new blood here in March - but who? Manning has been called up but not used, and there seems to be question marks around him. Scales was also called up but he's only played a handful of games at Celtic so far. Ebosele is also very raw.

Centre-mid - we're doing ok, though Portugal (intermittently) and Serbia (too often) went right through us like a bad dose. Cullen and Knight are two of the finds of the last year. Molumby hasn't kicked on as hoped, but he's been starting games for West Brom lately and maybe he's finding his feet at senior level now. Hourihane drives me mad, but Hendrick is quietly underrated. There's been calls here for Conor Coventry to be called up, but I don't see he's an option given his loan was terminated early, and that's the problem with players at that stage of their careers (which a lot of our guys are at). Maybe Gavin Kilkenny could be an option for 20/30 minutes, but he's very raw at club level still.

Goalkeeper - we know what three will be called up in March. I think we're still a year away from being comfortable with any of them - Bazunu's blunders, Kelleher's bench time and Travers' distribution all need to be sorted still - but in a year's time I think they'll still be the three in the squad, and we can be happy we'll have a long-term number 1 out of those three. Is it too simplistic to give them an hour each in March, assuming two friendlies? I think they're all a stage in their careers where gametime would help.

Centre-back - three solid options (thank God for Duffy's rebirth!) and it's been our strongest position under Kenny, but I think we could still do with another reliable option here. I'd like to see Collins in particular get a start, although again he's very raw. And the Lenihan/Clark positions are curious.

So that's Keane, Hogan and Nathan Collins I'd be thinking of starting in March, and maybe looking at Kilkenny, Scully and Lenihan. For all that the squad has been transformed in the past 12 months, I think there's still plenty to do yet.

[Razors left peg]

Expand as in bring new options into the senior team. Give Collins a full debut, call up Dunne, re-consider Lenihan.

Centre-back was always a strong position for us, and I don't think three very good defenders (Duffy, O'Shea, Egan) and one very promising starlet (Omo) is quite what I'd define as "relatively stacked" when we play three at the back.

But yeah, certainly I agree that we can't just go playing out a B team in March. There's a couple of other positions where I'd be more concerned about looking at medium-term replacements (wing back the obvious one) and the dire issues up front have to be addressed too.
Starting Collins I'd agree with,but he's there on merit. I like Dunne and Lenihan but if u pick them who do you leave out instead. I think being "stacked" is that some good players will be left out.

[pineapple stu]

Well the flip side is Collins/Dunne/Lenihan have three caps between them (two as sub) Collins has only been in two squads I think, and Lenihan hasn't played at all under Kenny. I wouldn't necessarily trust them if we had to throw them in in an emergency. I think they need a bit of time on the pitch to get used to Kenny's way of playing and ensure they're a more viable option if/when needed. That's what I'd see as the key goal from the March friendlies (beyond performance/result of course)

[Jd2793]

ogbene plays wing back for rotherham btw who are favourites for promotion, obviously kenny has used him higher up but no reason he cant be a viable option out there in future for us. Horgan needs to be dropped in March imo. Worried about Parrott now, gone off the boil completely since november internationals. he looked really good up til then.

[Razors left peg]

Well the flip side is Collins/Dunne/Lenihan have three caps between them (two as sub) Collins has only been in two squads I think, and Lenihan hasn't played at all under Kenny. I wouldn't necessarily trust them if we had to throw them in in an emergency. I think they need a bit of time on the pitch to get used to Kenny's way of playing and ensure they're a more viable option if/when needed. That's what I'd see as the key goal from the March friendlies (beyond performance/result of course)
Getting players experience in friendlies is over rated. Omobamidele and Bazunu were thrown in at deep end in qualifiers and were fine. If they are playing regular 1st team football they can adjust quickly. Playing a half hour in a friendly is meaningless from the point of view of adjusting to international football

[elatedscum]

Getting players experience in friendlies is over rated. Omobamidele and Bazunu were thrown in at deep end in qualifiers and were fine. If they are playing regular 1st team football they can adjust quickly. Playing a half hour in a friendly is meaningless from the point of view of adjusting to international football

I think it’s more useful for the coaching staff to see you. There are players you can take a low risk chance on in a friendly and they might show you they’re ready.

Definitely true about Bazunu and Omobamidele, but there’s someone like Travers who really struggled v Serbia. Ideally, you wouldn’t have to take those chances and you’d have a deep enough pool of quality that you can afford to pick and choose the moments to use introduce young players or debutants…

Were McGrath, Ogbene and Knight brought in during the summer friendlies? I think so but could be wrong, Knight was perhaps a bit earlier

[Stuttgart88]

I think for the most part debutants have acquitted themselves very well in Kenny’s tenure. Knight, Ogbene, Bazunu, Kelleher, O’Shea, Omobamidele and Cullen (not sure if he’d been capped previously) spring to mind. Others have been hit and miss but none has been an expensive error. Ineffective has been the worst you can say. Travers maybe cost us a point in Belgrade but his performance was no worse than some outfield players. Keepers are more susceptible to costly performances. It’s part of the job.

There’s a obviously more risk in blooding players in important matches but we don’t have the luxury of picking from a deep pool of proven players. If someone like Collins or Dunne has to step in without friendly experience, so be it.

There are several guys with a chance to play themselves into the team before Euros qualification. They’ll get their chances. Having them around the squad in the first instance is a good start.

[John83]

Is Smallbone in the picture for March? He did his cruciate* in January, but has been back playing a few months. Just a couple of senior games, I think, but we don't have the talent pool to ignore him if he's fit.

I do think Collins is worth a look, but I agree that having these guys in the squad is the main thing, but a few judicious caps won't do any harm.

The front line has to be the main location of any experimentation in March. We're not going to do much in the nations league depending on Duffy's head and Robinson overperforming.

* I always like an opportunity to tell of my favourite piece of Irish commentary I've ever seen. Watching Sacar Beo on TG4 many moons ago, some Spanish league match, and the commentators are discussing a player when one of them comes out with the line, "Bhí sé amach anuraidh le anterior cruciate knee ligament injury." I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

[JR89]

Smallbone is out injured again. Has a calf injury at the moment.

[Razors left peg]

So we finally have unequivocal proof of who's the better keeper between Bazunu and Kelleher... only one of them conceded against Shrewsbury this season!

[Bielsa´s irish]

Play Manning in midfield

[Bielsa´s irish]

The world class pass he did vs Southampton was kind of a Liam Brady pass when in Juventus...world class pass!

[Trequartista20]

Play Manning in midfield

Yeah, I think Manning's a midfielder.

[ontheotherhand]

Bazunu has 31 clean sheets from 71 senior appearances according to the twitterverse. Not bad for a 19 year old.

[Demesne Lad]

"Lawlor's not getting his game for Dundee and seems to have struggled with the step from English fourth tier up to third tier, so I'd say he's not really an option either". (Pineapple Stu, 21 Oct 21).
Making his 4th start of the season for Dundee tonight v Peterhead, in the Scottish Cup, but not likely to be on S Kenny's radar.

[Stuttgart88]

I heard Lawlor was really good in a recent SPL league match

[seanfhear]

I am getting sick and tired about hearing about Good Irish Goalkeepers all of the time ~ ~ It’s all very disconcerting ! !

Surely there must be some bad news about ! !

[elatedscum]

So in the top table you’ve got Bazunu, Kelleher and Travers - and on the second table, you’ve got your choice of Randolph, O’Leary, Bonham, Lawlor, McDermott, Talbot… crazy how far we’ve come in a year, when we were hoping that a 36 year old Kieran Westwood would be fit to return…

Given Travers recent form, a brave move for Kenny would be to start Kelleher v Belgium, start Travers in the other game, both could use an international 90 mins under their belt to see where they’re at in comparison to Bazunu. Meanwhile, have Bazunu play v Sweden for the 21s. Can’t see it happening for a second though…

[JR89]

So in the top table you’ve got Bazunu, Kelleher and Travers - and on the second table, you’ve got your choice of Randolph, O’Leary, Bonham, Lawlor, McDermott, Talbot… crazy how far we’ve come in a year, when we were hoping that a 36 year old Kieran Westwood would be fit to return…

Given Travers recent form, a brave move for Kenny would be to start Kelleher v Belgium, start Travers in the other game, both could use an international 90 mins under their belt to see where they’re at in comparison to Bazunu. Meanwhile, have Bazunu play v Sweden for the 21s. Can’t see it happening for a second though…

Why would you demote your number one senior keeper to the U21s, and in turn tell Brian Maher good luck bud we don't need you this game but you'll play again in the summer when Bazunu is back starting for the seniors.

If the other two see minutes in March then Travers should see minutes against Belgium. If the Lithuania game turns out to be like Qatar he'll be standing around like a spare ***** most the night. Whereas minutes against Belgium will test his abilities as a sweeper keeper. 45mins in each game the lads should play if that were to happen.

[ColourfulPeanut]

Moving our #1 keeper back to the U21s just because he's eligible and they have qualifiers is a terrible idea.

If it's the likes of Parrott who's form justifies his exclusion then fine, but we can't be demoting Bazunu for no reason.

[pineapple stu]

I presume the point is to try get the 21s qualified for the Euros. There was a suggestion on another thread that another player (I'm very helpful here, I know!) not be called up for the senior team despite good recent form because the 21s could be considered a priority over the senior team in March.

I think the senior team is always the priority fwiw, even if it's just friendlies against Belgium B/Lithuania compared to a vital qualifier against Sweden for the 21s.

[Eirambler]

I wouldn't worry too much about the Under 21s, they are there primarily to feed the senior squad. We have probably our best ever Under 21 eligible group of players this time, but they almost certainly won't qualify because most of the best ones are involved with the seniors and the drop off from the number 1 to the number 2 in some positions, such as goalkeeper, is massive.

In terms of goalkeeping depth I don't think we need to look beyond the three obvious candidates, we will have enough of a problem giving game time to those three when possible so there probably won't be capacity in the coming years to cap any other keepers.

[ifk101]

There was a suggestion on another thread that another player (I'm very helpful here, I know!) not be called up for the senior team despite good recent form because the 21s could be considered a priority over the senior team in March.

Yeah, that's was me about Ebosele.

Otherwise don't see the issue with moving players down to the U21s for the Sweden game. Agree that Bazunu is senior no.1 but Belgian/ Lithuania is opportunity to give an improved Travers another chance, and Kelleher is there as well. Not sure if Collins and Parrott will get much game time against Belgian/ Lithuania but would be strong additions to the U21 options.

[Stuttgart88]

Hasn't Kenny already said Kelleher will get a look in the NL? This was before Travers started making such a strong claim. I suspect all 3 keepers will figure in the friendlies and NL games.