Embarrassment of riches: who is Ireland's best goalkeeper? [Archive] - Page 2

ifk101

22/10/2021, 12:53 PM

Did you maybe read where I gave my reasons?
Missed those reasons. Did you edit your post to add those in? :-) Anyways, they are all fine attributes that give reason as to why a Championship player is more skillful than a L1 player, but not necessarily an explanation as to why a Championship player hits a shot on target with more power and accuracy than his L1 counterpart.

So why do you think the best keeper in the world wouldn't have close to a 100% save percentage in the LSL? Because that's a fairly out there claim that really needs some sort of back-up to it.

Sure, simple explanation. Buffon�s reach is less than the dimensions of a goals. That a LSL player lacks the technical ability and physical attributes of, for example, a Ronaldo, does not mean he is incapable of hitting a shot on target with power and accuracy.

And I didn't ask you if you had percentages for Talbot or Maher - I asked you if they had similar percentage rates to Travers, would you consider them equal to him?

I haven�t seen much of Maher but do like the look of Talbot. But Bazunu is in my subjective opinion a superior goalie and we know he is capable of doing a good job at international level. We don�t know if Talbot can perform at international level so I do not consider the two players equal. The likelihood is Bazunu, Kelleher and Travers are the options for Portugal. Hence the comparison between Bazunu and Travers, and not randomness.

Not really. Good team has good goalie - hardly a shock? And the point of percentages is to compare on a level playing field (ie per hundred; shots in this case), so if you want work in percentages, you can't then bring the number of shots into things.

Simplistic to say good teams have good goalies. Bournemouth were heavily rumoured with goalkeepers earlier in the season so, subjectively, they had identified that position as a position needing strengthening. Travers had done well since but based on the Stoke game I watched earlier in the week, he subjectively still has work to do in improving his game. Not sure what you want to say in the latter part here, something about stats not meeting self-defined parameters?

You're again abusing stats though. My point is that by including games against Luxembourg and Azerbaijan (I don't know why you'd exclude Qatar, but fine), you dilute the overall quality of player he's playing against, and so your comparison isn't really fair because you've taken one game with four shots (too small a data sample) and compared it with games which, overall, are of a lower level.

It's your incorrect opinion that stats are being abused. I didn�t include Qatar as it was a friendly (does that need explanation? :-)), and the Luxembourg player that scored against us looked quite good tbf (at least Championship standard, no?) And I�ve posted the club stats for both Travers and Bazunu. I posted Bazunu�s competitive international stats to illustrate he is subjectively doing well for us.

Are we ok now? Agree to disagree?

SkStu

22/10/2021, 1:12 PM

I place far more stock in ifk101's statistics than i do in the headlines over the last few days about "Travers 6 clean sheets in a row" which is made up of so many variables as to be completely meaningless. At least the stats that ifk has produced allow for a fair degree of relative comparison. Based on available statistics though, is it even fair to compare Kelleher? Theres not much of a body of work available.

I think i have said it on here before that, in my subjective opinion (aaaaagh!), for the goalkeeper position, the level you are playing at matters less in this type of conversation than it does for other positions. A goalkeeper playing in L1 is relatively closer in ability to a goalkeeper playing in the Premier League than, say, a pair of strikers would be. I'm not saying the gap in ability is negligible, i am just saying it is less of a gap at that position. The goalkeeping population is so much smaller that the quality gets spread a little further down the divisions.

pineapple stu

22/10/2021, 2:06 PM

Stu, we know your view on Bazunu by now. It's a bit one-eyed I think but it's what you think so that's OK.

I'm less clear on your view of Travers or Kelleher. Has anything you've seen of either caused any concern for example?
Well again - the point I was arguing here was that you can't say Bazunu and Travers are saving the same number of shots, so they're both as good, while ignoring that one is playing in a higher division than the other. I did say I was arguing against bad statistics and bad evaluation, and not Bazunu per se.

Just to clear that bit up first.

I would broadly agree with your analysis. I was on holidays last month when that Liverpool v Norwich game was on, and I was talking to a Liverpool fan who was watching it, and he said Kelleher was "a class keeper" and didn't know how he wasn't starting for Ireland. OK, he's not going to be watching Bazunu, but I thought it was encouraging to hear a regular Liverpool fan describe him so positively. He was very impressive v Hungary as you say, and the Qatar game was a waste of time. He's in an awkward position at club level of course - and yet Wales have done reasonably well of late with Danny Ward in nets (15 games for Leicester in four years, all in Cups) over, say, Adam Davies, who gets game time a division lower at Stoke. It's not a fully like-for-like comparison, but regular training with a top Premier Division team (Liverpool or Leicester) is better than people give credit for I think. But of course it would be better if he was regularly starting somewhere.

Bazunu has huge potential, but I think people need to be more reasonable about where he's at right now. People were saying last year that he was getting rave reviews at Rochdale (but I could never find any), and lately they've been saying he's been faultless for us (but he clearly hasn't). There was hopes he could get a move to a Championship club this year, but that didn't happen (I wonder were Bournemouth ever interested?) So it might sound like I'm constantly giving out about the guy, but really I'm just trying to bring in some balance to things. I also do get the feeling that his luck for us is due a turn for the worse and we'll see something like his recent Portsmouth exploits.

But for November, possession is 9/10th of the law when it comes to keepers. It's certainly his spot to lose, but I'd like to see more rotation in the spring friendlies and in the Nations League, because it's far from clear at the moment who our long-term number 1 is going to be.

pineapple stu

22/10/2021, 2:06 PM

Missed those reasons. Did you edit your post to add those in? :-) Anyways, they are all fine attributes that give reason as to why a Championship player is more skillful than a L1 player, but not necessarily an explanation as to why a Championship player hits a shot on target with more power and accuracy than his L1 counterpart.
But more power and accuracy is one of the major things that defines a better forward. I don't see why you would think a forward playing in a lower division has more power and accuracy than one playing in a higher division. That's literally what we have divisions for. And I don't know why you're so obsessed with power and accuracy at the expense of all the other things I listed which make a better forward create better chances in a higher tier.

Sure, simple explanation. Buffon’s reach is less than the dimensions of a goals. That a LSL player lacks the technical ability and physical attributes of, for example, a Ronaldo, does not mean he is incapable of hitting a shot on target with power and accuracy.
This...really is an answer staggering in its ignorance of both football and statistics to be quite honest. An LSL player lacking the technical and physical attributes of Ronaldo will absolutely hit the ball less powerfully and accurately than Ronaldo. I honestly don't know how you can possibly argue any other way. Power alone is strongly impacted by physical attributes - if you are stronger, better conditioned, etc, you will of course hit the ball stronger, and Ronaldo is absolutely better conditioned than an LSL player. (Source - look at him, and look at an LSL player)

The LSL player may on occasion deliver an unstoppable shot into the top corner, but that is going to happen far less often than it would for Ronaldo, and therefore Buffon is absolutely going to make more saves in the LSL.

I'm not sure how to to engage a discussion where you are with a straight face suggesting that Buffon at his prime would make as many saves in the LSL as he would in Serie A.

tetsujin1979

22/10/2021, 2:10 PM

Travers didn't play in the 0-0 draw against Hull, which after the run of clean sheets, so the consecutive away clean sheets record is a club record, not a player record

SkStu

22/10/2021, 2:38 PM

Travers didn't play in the 0-0 draw against Hull, which after the run of clean sheets, so the consecutive away clean sheets record is a club record, not a player record

Agree completely, Tets. I was just shocked at the number of articles with the headline beside a picture of Travers with a big happy head on him! :D

ifk101

22/10/2021, 3:09 PM

But more power and accuracy is one of the major things that defines a better forward. I don't see why you would think a forward playing in a lower division has more power and accuracy than one playing in a higher division. That's literally what we have divisions for. And I don't know why you're so obsessed with power and accuracy at the expense of all the other things I listed which make a better forward create better chances in a higher tier.

The stats I provided, that you take objection to, are shots on target/ save percentages. Focus on that rather than going off on a tangent. Sure, better players play in higher divisions. But good saves are made across all divisions. The stats I've posted offer a basis for comparison between Bazunu and Travers. Defining a "better forward" is not the issue here and something you'll do well to explore yourself.

This...really is an answer staggering in its ignorance of both football and statistics to be quite honest. An LSL player lacking the technical and physical attributes of Ronaldo will absolutely hit the ball less powerfully and accurately than Ronaldo. I honestly don't know how you can possibly argue any other way. Power alone is strongly impacted by physical attributes - if you are stronger, better conditioned, etc, you will of course hit the ball stronger, and Ronaldo is absolutely better conditioned than an LSL player. (Source - look at him, and look at an LSL player)

The LSL player may on occasion deliver an unstoppable shot into the top corner, but that is going to happen far less often than it would for Ronaldo, and therefore Buffon is absolutely going to make more saves in the LSL.

Calm down, and keep it cordial. A LSL player is certainly capable of hitting a shot on target with power and accuracy. Ignorance is yours if it is evoking such drama.

I'm not sure how to to engage a discussion where you are with a straight face suggesting that Buffon at his prime would make as many saves in the LSL as he would in Serie A.

Your comment was Buffon would have close to a 100% save percentage in LSL. Sure, we can with confidence assume he'd have a higher save percentage than in a professional league - but close to 100%. Get real. And come on, if you have played the game, you'd understand how unlikely it is for a goalie to have a close to 100% save percentage. Consider the multitude of ways a ball can hit the back of the nets. I don't understand why this is so upsetting.

pineapple stu

22/10/2021, 4:05 PM

Tell me ifk - what do you see as the difference between the world's greatest players and park players in the LSL?

You describe LSL players who can match Ronaldo for power and accuracy. But clearly they're not as good as Ronaldo. Why do you think that is? Why do you think it logical that Buffon - dropped into the LSL in his prime - would concede as many goals as he did in Serie A? Saying Buffon is smaller than the goal is absolutely meaningless.

On your stats, I you are quoting a shots-to-save ratios. You say "focus on that" - but I have. It's exactly the stat I challenged at the outset by saying your comparison was invalid because it fails to take into account that a keeper at a higher level is facing better players.

And I'd also ask you to stop misquoting me - I don't disagree that an "LSL player is certainly capable of hitting a shot on target with power and accuracy". I never disagreed with that. I do fundamentally disagree (a) with the idea that he can match the power and accuracy of Ronaldo, or with enough power and accuracy to trouble Buffon, and (b) that power and accuracy is all there is to being a forward.

ontheotherhand

22/10/2021, 5:16 PM

Well again - the point I was arguing here was that you can't say Bazunu and Travers are saving the same number of shots, so they're both as good, while ignoring that one is playing in a higher division than the other. I did say I was arguing against bad statistics and bad evaluation, and not Bazunu per se.

Just to clear that bit up first.

I would broadly agree with your analysis. I was on holidays last month when that Liverpool v Norwich game was on, and I was talking to a Liverpool fan who was watching it, and he said Kelleher was "a class keeper" and didn't know how he wasn't starting for Ireland. OK, he's not going to be watching Bazunu, but I thought it was encouraging to hear a regular Liverpool fan describe him so positively. He was very impressive v Hungary as you say, and the Qatar game was a waste of time. He's in an awkward position at club level of course - and yet Wales have done reasonably well of late with Danny Ward in nets (15 games for Leicester in four years, all in Cups) over, say, Adam Davies, who gets game time a division lower at Stoke. It's not a fully like-for-like comparison, but regular training with a top Premier Division team (Liverpool or Leicester) is better than people give credit for I think. But of course it would be better if he was regularly starting somewhere.

Bazunu has huge potential, but I think people need to be more reasonable about where he's at right now. People were saying last year that he was getting rave reviews at Rochdale (but I could never find any), and lately they've been saying he's been faultless for us (but he clearly hasn't). There was hopes he could get a move to a Championship club this year, but that didn't happen (I wonder were Bournemouth ever interested?) So it might sound like I'm constantly giving out about the guy, but really I'm just trying to bring in some balance to things. I also do get the feeling that his luck for us is due a turn for the worse and we'll see something like his recent Portsmouth exploits.

But for November, possession is 9/10th of the law when it comes to keepers. It's certainly his spot to lose, but I'd like to see more rotation in the spring friendlies and in the Nations League, because it's far from clear at the moment who our long-term number 1 is going to be.

The reviews are easy enough to find if you aren't focusing all your attention on waiting for the slip ups. :)

https://www.balls.ie/football/gavin-bazunu-loan-448562
https://www.irishpost.com/sport/gavin-bazunu-irelands-goalkeeping-conundrum-206338
https://punditarena.com/irish-football/darraghmurphy/gavin-bazunu-rochdale/

I don't think I disagree with you as much as it appears stu and we've covered this a bit i.e. I'm judging him on promise and you're judging him on readiness now, but I think the lens you are using to view him is causing you to miss out on the good stuff and focus only on the mistakes. I also don't think anyone has said he's been faultless for Ireland? If I did it's certainly not what I believe. He's been very good, and better than some here seem to want to give him credit for, but he's gotten lucky a few times and made some awful decisions that come with being inexperienced.

I love the LSL v Buffon debate that has spun out here. I'd change it slightly to the LoI v Buffon. Plenty of unbelievable strikes in the LoI that no keeper would stop BUT in stu's defense, you have to take the average shot at each level, not the worldies that pop up occasionally. Keepers at lower levels, on average, face a lower calibre of striker and with that comes a lower frequency of shots that come with the accuracy, pace and power you'd find more regularly at higher levels........I mean that sounds intuitive. I'm not sure how you'd find data around it.

ifk101

22/10/2021, 5:20 PM

....

Power and accuracy are parameters for evaluating the actual shot on target. They do not define a better striker. Sure, if you were to argue a higher level striker is more likely to consistently hit a shot with power and accuracy than his lower level compatriot, I could agree. But a shot is not harder and more accurate simply because it was hit by the foot of a higher level footballer. Every shot is different, ever save made has varying levels of difficult � there are so many variables.

The stats I posted were as a basis for comparison for the relative performances of Bazunu and Travers. The stats were for league performance, and Bazunu stats at international competitive level were later added. You dismissed the addition of the international stats as these include games against Azerbaijan and Luxembourg. I think they are quite impressive stats for a kid playing his first games at this level.

Anyways others can determine if the stats are a bad measure or not. And sure, I myself accept the stats are a crude measure and that�s why I added a caveat to these stats in my initial post. But there is a measurement there for evaluating the performance of Bazunu and Travers that extends beyond the subjectivity you have posted on Bazunu so far.

And I haven�t misquoted you. :insert roll eyes emoji here:

Last post on this so don�t bother.

pineapple stu

22/10/2021, 6:10 PM

The reviews are easy enough to find if you aren't focusing all your attention on waiting for the slip ups. :)

https://www.balls.ie/football/gavin-bazunu-loan-448562
https://www.irishpost.com/sport/gavin-bazunu-irelands-goalkeeping-conundrum-206338
https://punditarena.com/irish-football/darraghmurphy/gavin-bazunu-rochdale/
Well it's funny, cos when I challenged posters for them earlier in the year, they weren't forthcoming :) (I had spotted the one Team of the Week nomination alright)

But yeah, I'm judging him on the now and I've always acknowledged that he can only get better. (Of course, he could get a bad injury too and fail to reach his potential as he's still at a key developmental age, but let's not talk about that!) I don't think I disagree as much as ye either. I don't think I have quite the same confidence in him as others do at the moment.

(It was elatedscum who said "he's been faultless for Ireland" btw)

On Buffon in the LSL - I'm glad to see someone sees sense on the matter! :) "Keepers at lower levels, on average, face a lower calibre of striker and with that comes a lower frequency of shots that come with the accuracy, pace and power you'd find more regularly at higher levels........I mean that sounds intuitive." I mean, what more can you really say about it than that? The "on average" bit is key and answers ifk101's latest post on the matter for me. I'm amazed it's even being argued, and the LSL/Buffon stuff is batty altogether.

Maybe we should bring the Malahide United keeper into consideration here? 7 goals against in 11 games is decent, and he's facing players who hit as hard and accurately as Ronaldo it seems. What can go wrong?

ontheotherhand

22/10/2021, 6:35 PM

Well it's funny, cos when I challenged posters for them earlier in the year, they weren't forthcoming :) (I had spotted the one Team of the Week nomination alright)

But yeah, I'm judging him on the now and I've always acknowledged that he can only get better. (Of course, he could get a bad injury too and fail to reach his potential as he's still at a key developmental age, but let's not talk about that!) I don't think I disagree as much as ye either. I don't think I have quite the same confidence in him as others do at the moment.

(It was elatedscum who said "he's been faultless for Ireland" btw)

On Buffon in the LSL - I'm glad to see someone sees sense on the matter! :) "Keepers at lower levels, on average, face a lower calibre of striker and with that comes a lower frequency of shots that come with the accuracy, pace and power you'd find more regularly at higher levels........I mean that sounds intuitive." I mean, what more can you really say about it than that? The "on average" bit is key and answers ifk101's latest post on the matter for me. I'm amazed it's even being argued, and the LSL/Buffon stuff is batty altogether.

Maybe we should bring the Malahide United keeper into consideration here? 7 goals against in 11 games is decent, and he's facing players who hit as hard and accurately as Ronaldo it seems. What can go wrong?

It's the interwebs and if the whole thing wasn't developed specifically for this argument to happen then I want no part of it.

pineapple stu

22/10/2021, 6:50 PM

I just remembered btw - I played a game of ball last month on holidays. Gang of mates against a group of English we'd met. We won 9-1; I was in nets and saved six of the seven shots I faced. They could kick the ball with the power and accuracy of Ronaldo - apparently everyone can - so can I put myself into the mix in this thread?

The keepers for Portugal/Luxembourg should be Kelleher, Bazunu and pineapple stu. You can't argue with the stats!

I'll settle for a half-hour run-out in Luxembourg.

ifk101

22/10/2021, 6:58 PM

Actually pineapple stu, and putting one and one together from your join date and being a UCD fan, I think I have an idea who you are. I remember when I was in UCD, there was the oddity of a small group of UCD ultras :-) - one of which was a small chap that always wore a Wasps rugby jersey. Was that you or one of the others?

pineapple stu

22/10/2021, 7:00 PM

Going to have to disappoint you here - no idea what or who you're talking about there.

ifk101

22/10/2021, 7:02 PM

Going to have to disappoint you here - no idea what or who you're talking about there.

Fair enough. I'd have Bazunu and Kelleher ahead of you for goals ;-)

ontheotherhand

22/10/2021, 7:39 PM

Not to take us completely off the topic of sniping at our various young keepers......but.....is Randolph still in contention for people or have we just moved on? Personally I think we need to pick one of the younger lads and stick with him as we build the team but what do others think?

pineapple stu

22/10/2021, 7:45 PM

Hes's only 34, so he could still have a part to play. But I'm ok with him not being in the squad while he's not even in the West Ham squad. (I know that means I'm saying Kelleher sitting on the bench is better than Randolph also not playing, but I'm happy to prioritise youth development in this case)

sadloserkid

22/10/2021, 8:17 PM

Randolph has no business being near an Irish squad right now. To be blunt he might as well be retired for all that he's doing at the moment and he doesn't seem overly frantic to do much about that. Which is absolutely his perogative of course but definitely relevant in assessing his viability as an option.

third policeman

22/10/2021, 8:30 PM

seanfhear

22/10/2021, 8:57 PM

Strange how Randolph has fallen so low down the order at West Ham. He generally did ok whenever he played, and begs the question why did they buy him back? He’s a decent keeper, just a pity he’s kicking his heels as their third choice.
Doesn’t he have the job of being a Pop-Star's boyfriend at the moment ?

sadloserkid

23/10/2021, 8:21 AM

Strange how Randolph has fallen so low down the order at West Ham. He generally did ok whenever he played, and begs the question why did they buy him back? He�s a decent keeper, just a pity he�s kicking his heels as their third choice.

Randolph's entire Premier League career took in 34 games (22 of those in one season). He was never established at that level really. The Championship was probably his natural ceiling aand it's certainly not a bad one. He was deservedly Ireland's number one for a long time but probably held onto the shirt a little longer than he really deserved to due to a lack of alternatives.

Now? From the outside he looks like a man who is winding down. None of us are privy to the inside track but if he was really motivated to play for Ireland you'd imagine he would have pushed for a loan move at least. If he wants to stay in London a short-term gig with a QPR/Milwall or even back to Charlton might have suited all parties you'd have thought?

It's entirely his career and choice of course and he gave plenty of service obviously but, as things stand, I wouldn't call him back even of one of the current three was injured. I'd say the first choice for the third placed team in Norway has a better claim than the third choice for West Ham ever before age and potential is weighted in as factors too.

seanfhear

23/10/2021, 8:37 AM

Randolph's entire Premier League career took in 34 games (22 of those in one season). He was never established at that level really. The Championship was probably his natural ceiling aand it's certainly not a bad one. He was deservedly Ireland's number one for a long time but probably held onto the shirt a little longer than he really deserved to due to a lack of alternatives.

Now? From the outside he looks like a man who is winding down. None of us are privy to the inside track but if he was really motivated to play for Ireland you'd imagine he would have pushed for a loan move at least. If he wants to stay in London a short-term gig with a QPR/Milwall or even back to Charlton might have suited all parties you'd have thought?

It's entirely his career and choice of course and he gave plenty of service obviously but, as things stand, I wouldn't call him back even of one of the current three was injured. I'd say the first choice for the third placed team in Norway has a better claim than the third choice for West Ham ever before age and potential is weighted in as factors too.
He certainly seems like a guy that is just winding his football career down. Surely he would be looking for a loan move at least, otherwise. It’s a strange one unless he is having fitness problems that we are not getting to hear about in detail.

JR89

23/10/2021, 9:31 AM

He certainly seems like a guy that is just winding his football career down. Surely he would be looking for a loan move at least, otherwise. It’s a strange one unless he is having fitness problems that we are not getting to hear about in detail.

My bet is fitness issues given his move to West Ham had issues with a failed medical and even Woodgate passed comment about it being the longest medical he's seen or something like that. And Woodgate knows a thing or two about fitness issues and medicals. He's had his issues with a thigh problem. Had get his defenders to take kick outs for him against Man City before March's internationals.

He was pushing for a loan and that was the reason given for him not getting called up in September because he was trying to finalise a move. Nothing has come out about why that loan didn't happen. Whether it's down to money or fitness, but he's got himself a handy gig at the moment getting paid 37.5k a week to be at home with Alxendera Burke.

seanfhear

23/10/2021, 12:28 PM

My bet is fitness issues given his move to West Ham had issues with a failed medical and even Woodgate passed comment about it being the longest medical he's seen or something like that. And Woodgate knows a thing or two about fitness issues and medicals. He's had his issues with a thigh problem. Had get his defenders to take kick outs for him against Man City before March's internationals.

He was pushing for a loan and that was the reason given for him not getting called up in September because he was trying to finalise a move. Nothing has come out about why that loan didn't happen. Whether it's down to money or fitness, but he's got himself a handy gig at the moment getting paid 37.5k a week to be at home with Alxendera Burke.
Where did it all go wrong ? We can only hope that things take a turn for the better for the fella very soon ! (wink)

Stuttgart88

08/11/2021, 11:38 AM

Bazunu seems to be back on form, though I hear he got away with an error carrying trhe ball outside the box on Saturday.

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/football/portsmouth-fc/classy-manchester-city-loanee-gavin-bazunu-on-battling-back-from-portsmouth-anguish-3445665

I saw an article in The Times on saturday morning where Mikel Arteta said one reason they bought Ramsdale (who has been sensational, which I did not expect) was that they noticed he recovered very well from mistakes. Interesting in context of Bazunu's recent loss of, and return to(?), form. A Ramsdale error very nearly cost Arsenal the win very late yesterday btw. Goalies need luck I guess, and teams need lucky goalies.

CraftyToePoke

16/12/2021, 2:53 PM

Encouraging words on GB from Cowley here, the elite mindset particularly draws the eye, wouldn't you all agree ? Pineapple ?

�Gavin can be whatever he wants to be,� Cowley told Sky Sports. �He�s an outstanding goalkeeper and an even better human being. He has an elite mindset and is so focused and driven.

�He wakes up every day wanting to improve, and it�s been a pleasure and a privilege to have him with us in this short period. We look forward to him continuing to do really well for us and himself, and we�re so excited for his future.�

Full article : https://www.the42.ie/gavin-bazunu-can-be-whatever-he-wants-to-be-portsmouth-manager-5631457-Dec2021/

pineapple stu

16/12/2021, 4:14 PM

I rarely pay too much heed to managers talking about their own players or teams to be honest! It's nice to hear, but the stat Stutts flagged about seven clean sheets in eight games is far more encouraging for me.

Stuttgart88

17/12/2021, 9:04 AM

Randolph's entire Premier League career took in 34 games (22 of those in one season).I was only thinking yesterday that it's hard not to see Bazunu (in particular imho) not carving out a really good career at this stage, if not at City somewhere at a high level. As stated above, Randolph was essentially a journeyman whose career got better in its second half. In recent times Shay's career is the benchmark for Irish keepers. A long tenure at a decent club, top flight more often than not, and arguably should have played at a better club. Alan Kelly and Keiren Westwood both did well, each spending time at EPL and Championship level but never coming close to Champions League standard clubs. Shay had some seasons in CL I think?

I think Bazunu should have at least as good a career as Shay. I expect Kelleher will do well when his chance comes, wherever or whenever that may be. I also think Travers is set to have at least as good a career as David Forde had in England.

Let's not forget that Forde and Randolph were perfectly capable international keepers, so I think we're really well set in this position for a long time. The interesting questions are just how well these young guys will do on an individual basis and who'll be number 1 going into the qualifiers.

tetsujin1979

17/12/2021, 9:27 AM

Packie Bonner analysing goalkeeping performance at Euro 2020: https://www.uefa.com/news/0270-13f89536b9e0-59df25678e49-1000--video-analysis-bonner-on-euro-goalkeepers/
some interesting thoughts

ontheotherhand

04/01/2022, 3:33 PM

The way the Kelleher thread seems to be going, it might be time to dust off this bad boy again:

As of right now we have (in no particular order......):

1. Maybe one of the most exciting 19 year old keepers in world football. Marca seem to think so. (https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2022/01/02/61d1718de2704e21058b457e.html) He's at the top of the charts for clean sheets at club level (albeit in L1) but has also has faced down the world's greatest goalscorer at a higher level. He's made some mistakes as you'd expect a kid to do and your heart would be in your mouth at times but he's also pulled off some of the saves of the year and is reportedly in demand at the highest level. Genuinely think he could end up as a world class player.

2. An EPL deputy learning his trade behind possibly the best in the world who just did a great job in one of Liverpool's biggest games of the year and seems as least good enough to be first choice at that level despite a lack of game time. He's an injury to Alisson away from being #1 and playing CL football.

3. An option playing at the top of the Championship who is also tied for the clean sheet record (I think) that would look completely reasonable if not for the 2 above.

By Irish standards, that's a wealth of options and any would be worthy of a start in the current team. All have plenty of time on their side as well. As of January 2022 we are in good shape.

seanfhear

04/01/2022, 4:21 PM

We might ask to see if we can play more than one goalkeeper.

pineapple stu

04/01/2022, 4:33 PM

Travers does have two goals to his name. He could be an option up front?

Razors left peg

04/01/2022, 5:18 PM

Between goal keeper and defenders we are building nicely from the back. If a few of the options going forward kick on we will be good shape

pineapple stu

04/01/2022, 5:23 PM

Wing back is a slight concern - Coleman, McClean, Doherty and Stevens are all past 30. I think we need to use the March friendlies to have a look at a new option or two there.

Razors left peg

04/01/2022, 5:33 PM

Wing back is a slight concern - Coleman, McClean, Doherty and Stevens are all past 30. I think we need to use the March friendlies to have a look at a new option or two there.

Theres a few young lads that are probably a few years away yet so I dont think we'll be replacing those 4 in the next campaign

ontheotherhand

04/01/2022, 5:49 PM

Travers does have two goals to his name. He could be an option up front?

Kelleher and Bazunu started outfield I believe - stick all three up front and get John O'Shea back in goals.

third policeman

04/01/2022, 6:18 PM

Theres a few young lads that are probably a few years away yet so I dont think we'll be replacing those 4 in the next campaign

Ebosele and O�Dowda both playing there at the minute. Ebosele May still need more experience at club level, but showing a lot of pace and promise.

ontheotherhand

04/01/2022, 8:00 PM

Isn't Ogbene playing wing back at club level?

Scales is starting to break through at celtic too so hopefully he can kick on.

SkStu

04/01/2022, 8:17 PM

We also have Manning, O'Shea as possible options and hopefully the breakthrough of Tayo Adaramola and continued maturation of others like Scales, Ebosele etc (as 3rdP and OTOH mentioned).

Razors left peg

04/01/2022, 8:29 PM

We also have Manning, O'Shea as possible options and hopefully the breakthrough of Tayo Adaramola and continued maturation of others like Scales, Ebosele etc (as 3rdP and OTOH mentioned).

I dont think Manning will ever be the answer there tbh.

SkStu

04/01/2022, 8:44 PM

I agree - he'd only do in a pinch. A possible option. Same with O'Shea but for different reasons - would we want to see him shoved out there either given how solid he has looked in the back three?

samhaydenjr

04/01/2022, 11:02 PM

Stuttgart88

05/01/2022, 9:20 AM

I know it's not definitive but I was well impressed by this compilation of saves by Bazunu - what I really like is that includes a variety of types of saves: acrobatic, full-length dives; getting down low quickly; saving with his feet; reflex saves; and perhaps most importantly Schmeichel-style starfish rushing of forwards clean through on goal:

IxUHKARsdoU

I also want to note that, as a Liverpool fan, I've never been blown away by Alisson. I even watched a compilation video of his saves to see if I was missing something and, while there were plenty of good saves in it, there weren't any truly great saves - in fact a bunch of Bazunu's saves in this video were better than the best from the Alisson oneI�ve never bought into the Alisson = best in world stuff. I often feel he�s got lucky at times and in pure goalkeeping ability I�d rate several others ahead of him. However he brings a calm reliability to the position and fills a big club�s jersey very well. He has a great knack of good saves at big moments. He was a great addition to Liverpool. A goalkeeper�s presence or personality is really important. Alisson has it. Kelleher seems to have it. Bazunu seems to have it. Travers didn�t have it in Belgrade but is still young. I commented in October that when Kelleher first played for Liverpool I thought he looked a bit like what he was - a kid finding his way in grown up football. In the last year this has changed markedly, he now looks like he knows he belongs at a high level.

John83

05/01/2022, 9:27 AM

I wonder could Newcastle come in for one of them? They're suddenly stinking rich and desperate for quality.

seanfhear

05/01/2022, 9:29 AM

I’ve never bought into the Alisson = best in world stuff. I often feel he’s got lucky at times and in pure goalkeeping ability I’d rate several others ahead of him. However he brings a calm reliability to the position and fills a big club’s jersey very well. He has a great knack of good saves at big moments. He was a great addition to Liverpool. A goalkeeper’s presence or personality is really important. Alisson has it. Kelleher seems to have it. Bazunu seems to have it. Travers didn’t have it in Belgrade but is still young. I commented in October that when Kelleher first played for Liverpool I thought he looked a bit like what he was - a kid finding his way in grown up football. In the last year this has changed markedly, he now looks like he knows he belongs at a high level.
How can he ( or anybody else ) be sure that he belongs at a high level consistently until he plays at a high level consistently. As it goes Liverpool had a lot of goalkeeping problems before signing Allison.