Andorra V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 3rd June 2021 - Friendly

[Diggs246]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1400496975670353924

[ontheotherhand]

Not too concerned about how we celebrated goals that took the lead against Andorra in an end of season friendly we'd gone behind in or that the focus of the training camp wasn't on defending set pieces given the opposition. The goal we conceded was so basic no professional or amateur player should be conceding it regardless of a lack of training. We didn't mark the man.

I am concerned that the players didn't show for the ball or have any clear pattern in what they were attempting. Sadlier has it spot on. Bazunu was giving the ball short at the back and we lost the plot after we were pressed pretty basically by inferior players. Nobody was moving with any purpose. Same story in midfield and out wide. I've watched a few passages back and the lack of movement is really worrying. So what did they work on during training?

I've been willing to wait on Kenny. I've never been a huge fan and think he might just suit a particular type of player/team but I saw the need to bring players through from the 21s given the lack of options we had in the prime age groups. I also just don't see other affordable/realistic options who would work miracles with the current squad That said, I'm not convinced he actually knows how to coach a passing/possession game at this point. Dundalk didn't play exactly like that when they were good. They were quite direct a lot of the time, with good players out wide and great strikers/Towell.

We did win though and we won comfortably in the end. Maybe they just needed to win a game and score a few goals. Maybe. Maybe.

[Diggs246]

So is any of the "kenny camp" keeping the faith ?

[jbyrne]

"They were dropping into areas too deep to receive it, in the full-back areas, which sometimes can be very effective in controlling games against top-class opposition, but against opposition that are sitting off you, it's not effective.

Kenny thinks Andorra were dropping off?

thought he said that pre match? maybe i heard it wrong though

[Razors left peg]

So is any of the "kenny camp" keeping the faith ?

Well yeah, we won 4-1. You'd swear we were beaten the way things are being talked about here.

Bit of perspective... In usual circumstances a June friendly, load of player pullouts, plastic pitch, no fans and playing a nobody... what previous manager in our history would we have expected to have gotten a fantastic performance from the team??

Facts are, we won 4-1, had about 75% possession and had a couple of 19 year olds get their first goals.

This meant more to all of us because we hadnt won a feckin game in so long, but we did win in basically a half paced training game. Hungary will be a bigger test so lets see how we do there.

But if we arent allowed to be happy for a win with Parrott and Knight getting on the score sheet then WTF are we even doing here? Of course Kenny has made mistakes and at half time yesterday I thought it was getting time for a change, but the 2nd half changes that completely. Goals and wins matter and hopefully we can kick on a bit now.

[Diggs246]

Well yeah, we won 4-1. You'd swear we were beaten the way things are being talked about here.

Bit of perspective... In usual circumstances a June friendly, load of player pullouts, plastic pitch, no fans and playing a nobody... what previous manager in our history would we have expected to have gotten a fantastic performance from the team??

Facts are, we won 4-1, had about 75% possession and had a couple of 19 year olds get their first goals.

This meant more to all of us because we hadnt won a feckin game in so long, but we did win in basically a half paced training game. Hungary will be a bigger test so lets see how we do there.

But if we arent allowed to be happy for a win with Parrott and Knight getting on the score sheet then WTF are we even doing here? Of course Kenny has made mistakes and at half time yesterday I thought it was getting time for a change, but the 2nd half changes that completely. Goals and wins matter and hopefully we can kick on a bit now.

Its was great to get the win and I was really happy for troy, who has had a hard time of late considering the expectations that were on his young shoulders

But are you infaring that was "good stuff"?

[ltfc_2004]

I have to say I'm wobbling. We were a shambles first half and looked clueless as to how to break them down. A few Andorrans were probably lucky it was a friendly and avoided yellow cards. IF you play international football up front you have to fancy playing a team like Andorra you will get chances. I have seen patches in James Collin's game that are good but against a team like Andorra he looks totally off the pace.

If that was the best XI in training, I dread to think what the others did

[pineapple stu]

I thought this was good analysis too -

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It annoyed me during the game how often we went backwards at the least chance. I can understand Kenny saying to go back if you can't go forward - but surely we have to have more confidence against Andorra than this?

[Razors left peg]

Its was great to get the win and I was really happy for troy, who has had a hard time of late considering the expectations that were on his young shoulders

But are you infaring that was "good stuff"?


Of course it wasnt brilliant, that why I wrote this in my previous post: Bit of perspective... In usual circumstances a June friendly, load of player pullouts, plastic pitch, no fans and playing a nobody... what previous manager in our history would we have expected to have gotten a fantastic performance from the team??

I think it was fine, I predicted a 3-0 win before the game and it was about up to par with the minimum I would have expected. But the bonus was where the goals came from, that was the exciting part.

[Razors left peg]

I thought this was good analysis too -

1400581743430836226?s=19

It annoyed me during the game how often we went backwards at the least chance. I can understand Kenny saying to go back if you can't go forward - but surely we have to have more confidence against Andorra than this?

Hourihane has been doing that in every game hes ever played in a green shirt.

[pineapple stu]

Thing is, I don't know who to blame for that

[SkStu]

So is any of the "kenny camp" keeping the faith ?

Good question. Are faith and hope the same thing? I measure them differently. Either way, I said to others yesterday, I am clinging on by a thread to a glimmer of hope. That first half was plain bad.

A good performance against Hungary will go a long way to feeling a little more faith in Kenny. Signs of progress, a couple of goals, less of a soft centre (my biggest issue with our performances). For the reasons I’ve recently mentioned on the SK thread, I still feel he deserves the full campaign to show us whether he deserves our faith in his long term ability to change that which we all agreed a year or so ago needed to be changed.

[Razors left peg]

Thing is, I don't know who to blame for that

I blame Hourihane for basically being a coward on the ball, but I also blame every Ireland manager who keeps picking him.

[ontheotherhand]

So is any of the "kenny camp" keeping the faith ?

Not having a go but does it have to be two distinct "camps"? This place is a bit like America politics sometimes. I know it's the internet and we like to take stances and dig in but it's creates a pretty needlessly polarized environment. Anybody who was in a "Kenny out" camp before he'd managed a few games is a bit of a clown for me and anybody who is firmly in a "Kenny in" camp at this point is the same. I'd imagine most people are somewhere in between and have been since the start.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well our attacking set pieces aren't very inventive or working out so well, so the defending wouldnt need to be up to much :P

When we say older lads, they're not massively experienced, bar Duffy/McClean really. And we know how his career trajectory has gone over the last couple of years.
Our attacking set pieces only seem to have a bit of variety when Browne is taking them (and Brady puts in decent balls but we're usually nowhere near meeting them first). It was always Kenny's strength at club level but this is obviously another level.

[Bielsa´s irish]

My toughts of the game. Bazunu at fault again

[seanfhear]

My toughts of the game. Bazunu at fault again
Caught in No Mans Land alright !

[Bielsa´s irish]

I can make a comparision with dull match Argentina 1 Chile 1. Both teams we and Ireland are trying the same idea. Barcelona's plan. We have Messi you dont. Both teams toó predictable. No agresiveness no breaking the coach's plan or formation no directness toó nuch sideways passing. We have Lautaro you have Collins the only main diference we might score more because of class but both teams are very predictable and slow too rigid movements no inspiration no craft nor creativity. We had a huge penalty awarded because of Var. Yesterday it was Parrott inspiration and Horgan class. The pass for Knight was a Roman Riquelme's quality.

[seanfhear]

I can make a comparision with dull match Argentina 1 Chile 1. Both teams we and Ireland are trying the same idea. Barcelona's plan. We have Messi you dont. Both teams toó predictable. No agresiveness no breaking the coach's plan or formation no directness toó nuch sideways passing. We have Lautaro you have Collins the only main diference we might score more because of class but both teams are very predictable and slow too rigid movements no inspiration no craft nor creativity. We had a huge penalty awarded because of Var. Yesterday it was Parrott inspiration and Horgan class. The pass for Knight was a Roman Riquelme's quality.
yeah.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I liked the built between McClean and Hourihane on the left for Parrott's header. That kind of ball is hard to defend because that long pass is so accurate and goles so high in the aire with no weight and then falls slowly and it curves to the 2nd post to Parrott's head... that it was a pleasure from Hourihane's left peg.

[seanfhear]

I liked the built between McClean and Hourihane on the left for Parrott's header. That kind of ball is hard to defend because that long pass is so accurate and goles so high in the aire with no weight and then falls slowly and it curves to the 2nd post to Parrott's head... that it was a pleasure from Hourihane's left peg.
yeah.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Another thing. Parrott's supremacy depends on a 9 like Collins or our Cillian Sheridan or any other who could battle the centerbacks. It could be any other guy who could pressure there. I dont ser Idah as a pressure #9. He is a #9 with finesse. It's Parrott or Idah

[Razors left peg]

Another thing. Parrott's supremacy depends on a 9 like Collins or our Cillian Sheridan or any other who could battle the centerbacks. It could be any other guy who could pressure there. I dont ser Idah as a pressure #9. He is a #9 with finesse. It's Parrott or Idah

Sweet Jesus :numbness:

[Bielsa´s irish]

Sweet Jesus :numbness:
They are very much kind of the same player.

[Razors left peg]

They are very much kind of the same player.

I'll bite... what part of either of Parrotts 2 goals yesterday had anything to do with Collins??

[Bielsa´s irish]

I'll bite... what part of either of Parrotts 2 goals yesterday had anything to do with Collins??


it's simple if we are gonna play Parrott in the hole to get free pass ro roam left center right, you need a lungerback 9, to do the dirty unpleasent things 9 usually do, like Guivarch did and the big french Giroud or Cissé did, you eigher play a 9 who could hold it and be a presence for the other defenders or a quick direct 9 who could draw diagonal runs to open defences, Connolly could do that job. Obafemi, Shane long or Aiden O'Brien is another guy who could be useful there from the fellow we have with a flair player.

Parrott scored two brillant goals because there was a 9 on the pitch. so he could keep them in alert, if you play either Idah or Parrott they need another striker to partner, could be a flashy guy like Connolly or Robinson or a classic post player. On Collins that diving header, well Stapleton would had scored that one with ease. But the guy is a presence up front, could be Scott Hogan, anyone with that team work.
Idah and Parrott are similiar in my eyes, they like it shiny, Idah plays with finesse he is not the typical 9. Parrott can pick the ball from deep as he did that splendid solo goal, but I repeat he needed that guy upfront.

On the second goal, that spectacular long pass from Hourihane we had two guys in the box. Collins got them busy on the first post, and Parrott attacked the 2nd post, where that beautiful pass dropped.

Collins played a big part in both goals, it was just his positioning awareness.

[Snapshot]

That was a 3/10 performance. The first half must rate as the worst in our international history. The 4-goal second half was barely enough to compensate. Kenny's post-match comment about non-preparation for opposition set-pieces was pristine cringe.

[Razors left peg]

it's simple if we are gonna play Parrott in the hole to get free pass ro roam left center right, you need a lungerback 9, to do the dirty unpleasent things 9 usually do, like Guivarch did and the big french Giroud or Cissé did, you eigher play a 9 who could hold it and be a presence for the other defenders or a quick direct 9 who could draw diagonal runs to open defences, Connolly could do that job. Obafemi, Shane long or Aiden O'Brien is another guy who could be useful there from the fellow we have with a flair player.

Parrott scored two brillant goals because there was a 9 on the pitch. so he could keep them in alert, if you play either Idah or Parrott they need another striker to partner, could be a flashy guy like Connolly or Robinson or a classic post player. On Collins that diving header, well Stapleton would had scored that one with ease. But the guy is a presence up front, could be Scott Hogan, anyone with that team work.
Idah and Parrott are similiar in my eyes, they like it shiny, Idah plays with finesse he is not the typical 9. Parrott can pick the ball from deep as he did that splendid solo goal, but I repeat he needed that guy upfront.

On the second goal, that spectacular long pass from Hourihane we had two guys in the box. Collins got them busy on the first post, and Parrott attacked the 2nd post, where that beautiful pass dropped.

Collins played a big part in both goals, it was just his positioning awareness.

Well that was a load of sh1te, glad I asked

[Olé Olé]

Not sure if it was the tired legs of the Andorran defenders but Idah looked much better than Collins when he came in. Defenders aside, he showed more variety of movement, got involved in the build and seemed just looked sharper.

I have said it before but I think he has a huge future for us. He looks to have all of the materials for a 9 in a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3. Again, this isn't an easy position for a young player and that is exemplified by a lot in football (Mason Greenwood is a good example of a prodigy that hasn't settled there yet even though those in the know reckon that's where United see him long term).

This season will be interesting. Does he stay or go on loan? I'd fancy a loan myself for him.

[Eirambler]

We're scored four times under Kenny prior to last night and the complaint is we didn't focus on defending set pieces in the build-up to a friendly game against Andorra. Sweet Jebus. And if we are practicing attacking set plays, surely defending them is an aspect of that exercise if not the focus. :-)

Well you say that, but given that Andorra lead the game well into the second half because of one it kind of suggests that a serious error was made not to prepare for them. It shouldn't be an either/or thing anyway, they should have been working on both attacking and defending set-pieces, and to me we looked useless at both. If Parrott hadn't decided to have a coming of age moment just afterwards it might well have been the mistake that ended the Kenny era.

[Olé Olé]

Trying to figure out what might happen with regards to selection for Hungary and I'm getting for perplexed at some decisions by Kenny v Andorra.

It felt to me like the team for Andorra was the strongest Kenny felt that he had and picked it to ensure the win. I'm not sure if he is going to rotate a whole pile for Hungary given that the opposition is better. I would see Kelleher and Idah being started in place of Bazunu and Collins. I can see Curtis being dropped- potentially for Horgan.

Kenny surely had intended on giving caps to a few more lads. Mandroiu and Ogbene in particular. Whilst I'd like to see Omobamidele get a cap, I don't feel like we need to get a look at him. We aren't in dire need of a centre half, he is very young and given that he already has exposure to a good standard of football then there isn't a whole pile to learn.

McGrath didn't get as much time on the field as I'd have like against Andorra, so it feels like Kenny got the balance wrong in desperation. I don't know what he learned about Horgan or Duffy in bringing them in. And he clearly got a bit comfortable after our third goal on the 84th minute because he brought Manning, Duffy and Arter on after that. What did he learn about any of those lads from a less than ten minute run out?

It feels a bit all over the place and very reactionary.

[tetsujin1979]

The front three didn't see much of the ball in the first half, and the midfield three weren't making much progress into the final third.
Against Wales, they retained/regained possession in midfield because they outnumbered us five to three.
Parrott scored the equaliser by coming a little deeper, which evened things up in midfield, and then breaking forward.
Should Kenny end the 12 game experiment with three in midfield? It's clearly not working.

[Olé Olé]

I must also confirm that I hadn't read Dan McDonnell's article today before posting that. He is making similar points regarding selection.

[seanfhear]

The front three didn't see much of the ball in the first half, and the midfield three weren't making much progress into the final third.
Against Wales, they retained/regained possession in midfield because they outnumbered us five to three.
Parrott scored the equaliser by coming a little deeper, which evened things up in midfield, and then breaking forward.
Should Kenny end the 12 game experiment with three in midfield? It's clear not working.
We don’t have the quality of midfielders to manage with just three.

[pineapple stu]

It felt to me like the team for Andorra was the strongest Kenny felt that he had and picked it to ensure the win. I'm not sure if he is going to rotate a whole pile for Hungary given that the opposition is better. I would see Kelleher and Idah being started in place of Bazunu and Collins. I can see Curtis being dropped- potentially for Horgan.

Kenny surely had intended on giving caps to a few more lads. Mandroiu and Ogbene in particular. Whilst I'd like to see Omobamidele get a cap, I don't feel like we need to get a look at him. We aren't in dire need of a centre half, he is very young and given that he already has exposure to a good standard of football then there isn't a whole pile to learn.

McGrath didn't get as much time on the field as I'd have like against Andorra, so it feels like Kenny got the balance wrong in desperation. I don't know what he learned about Horgan or Duffy in bringing them in. And he clearly got a bit comfortable after our third goal on the 84th minute because he brought Manning, Duffy and Arter on after that. What did he learn about any of those lads from a less than ten minute run out?

Yeah, I did get the feeling that a win was the main aim of the Andorra game. Understandable in a way - it's the bed we've made ourselves. And I'd imagine the hope was to have the game sewn up by half-time and change things then - but that of course went badly wrong.

Not sure I'd agree on Mandriou or Ogbene. I don't think there's necessarily a need to see players in games - the manager will have seen them for the past few days in training as well of course. You could maybe have brought them on in the last five minutes instead of Arter/Duffy/Manning, but would you have learned anything more about them then?

For Hungary, I think it might be best to look at this as a dry run for Portugal. We're still in transition enough (for whatever reason) that the regular players need time in the new system. And there's a real danger we could get pummeled by Portugal if they take learnings from Andorra's success at the high press - we're probably going to lose in Lisbon, but 5-0 or something really isn't what we want right now.

I think Kelleher has to start; Bazunu's decision-making means he's a liability at the moment to be brutally honest. Randolph for me is still number 1, but if he's injured again in September and if Westwood is effectively retired, you can't throw Kelleher in for his debut in Lisbon. Coleman to come in for McClean I presume. Hourihane - if he's going to keep on taking the sting out of forward movements, why should he play? Up front, our problems are legion. Collins and Curtis had bad misses against Andorra, but do we have the players in the squad to replace both? And is Idah really any better? Parrott was one of our few bright sparks against Andorra, but is he up to the standard of Hungary?

So (ignoring formation changes, though 4-3-3 does seem a bit attacking if the game is a dry run for Portugal away) that's -

Kelleher

Doherty
Egan
O'Shea
Coleman

Cullen
Knight
Molumby

Parrott
Idah
Horgan

You'd hope to bring Robinson and Randolph back in for Portugal. Maybe McCarthy into the mid and Stevens too somewhere. Would the other experienced players - Clark, Christie, Hendrick, Brady, O'Dowda, Long - add anything though? Not sure at this stage.

[tetsujin1979]

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