Andorra V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 3rd June 2021 - Friendly

[paul_oshea]

Kenny's never been great when speaking to the media, but these are especially bad
"let's have a bit of fun". No, let's start winning games, then we can have some fun
"how would you define a must win game" - really? Surely a "must win" game is pretty self explanatory

I understand what hes trying to do, he's trying to relax the squad, he realises they are going to be together for 10 days or so at the end of a strange and long season. If its not fun its going to be awful and no ones going to want to be there or perform on game nights. By removing the "must win" element also helps to nourish a fun element. I think he's also saying must win is more about games in qualification rather than end of season friendlies, the emphasis drawn there. Beating Hungary when they are preparing for the Euros is hardly must win. Beating Azerbaijan is or Luxenbourg was too.

[DCWA]

Strange and worrying squad. Mandriou will be one of the worst players to have ever represented Ireland. Second only to his clubmate Burke ye would think.

[tetsujin1979]

It's not an international window until Paul posts for the first time in weeks to tell us he was right about something

[Paddy Garcia]

Surely it would have made sense to include Mipo Odubeko and Obafemi - both making appearances in the permiership over recent weeks.

[Diggs246]

I think he will be gone a lot quicker that most people think. A hiding from Portugal followed by poor result v Azerbaijan and it could be Goodnight

[Exgrad]

Surely it would have made sense to include Mipo Odubeko and Obafemi - both making appearances in the permiership over recent weeks.

He explained the thinking re Obafemi and managing his injury, and that he may well appear at the camp. I think we need to accept at this point Odubeko does not want to be involved with Ireland at the moment. That may change in time, but he's out for the moment and i wouldn't stress about it too much.

[pineapple stu]

Andorra game moved to Andorra (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0525/1223801-ireland-friendly-moved-from-barcelona-to-andorra/) (not that it really matters if it'll be behind closed doors)

[Snapshot]

Surely it would have made sense to include Mipo Odubeko and Obafemi - both making appearances in the permiership over recent weeks.
Kenny must be removed if we lose to Andorra. That surely is the nadir from which there's no return. Must win or must go.

[John83]

That must be one of the few benefits of being Andorra. Sure, you never win anything, but any time you get a result at all, you have a chance of getting someone fired.

[paul_oshea]

That must be one of the few benefits of being Andorra. Sure, you never win anything, but any time you get a result at all, you have a chance of getting someone fired.

For Sado-masochistic tendencies types.

[John83]

For Sado-masochistic tendencies types.
Any port in a storm.

[Diggs246]

I will say someone like Jamie McGrath could just be what the doctor order in the 10 role we crave... who knows

[paul_oshea]

Anyone pick up on this line from Kenny:


The Premier league have a lot of games on Sundays now, with five different kick-off times sometimes ......

...Because they're going up a level into international football

[Charlie Darwin]

Fair point, if slightly worrying as well in that we're now so stuck in some areas that we're calling up players who aren't even the top players in a part-time league. Byrne was an obvious call as he stood out at Rovers.
You make this "part-time" league a comment a lot for some reason.

[Charlie Darwin]

There's a Jeremy Corbyn feel to the whole thing (for anyone who follows British politics). He's taking us off a cliff but some would rather go over the edge with him that than accept that the whole things a disaster.
Well if you want to continue that metaphor, Labour have now replaced their Stephen Kenny with Roddy Collins and are even worse off than they were before, so if the decision is to replace Kenny it still matters who is brought in, it can't just be anyone.

[pineapple stu]

You make this "part-time" league a comment a lot for some reason.

Cos it's a part-time league for the most part?

Rovers (and Mandriou) aren't of course. But playing Drogheda/Harps/Longford and the likes really isn't great prep for international football

[Razors left peg]

Cos it's a part-time league for the most part?

Rovers (and Mandriou) aren't of course. But playing Drogheda/Harps/Longford and the likes really isn't great prep for international football

Im a big LOI fan, its the only club football Im actually enjoying right now, but I 100% agree that its too big a step up to International football. We've seen too many players that were great in LOI go to England and be pretty average at best. Theres the obvious outliers like Coleman but the majority only do ok in the lower leagues.

I did think Byrne was exceptional but I even wondered how he looked when he was training alongside Premiership and Championship players. He wasnt being picked by international managers so it stands to reason that he didnt stand out in training. Hopefully the move will do him good next season.

Mandriou being called up really doesnt excite me. Hes been pretty good for Rovers and he definitely has talent, but he doesnt strike me as a player who will go on to bigger and better things.

[Charlie Darwin]

Cos it's a part-time league for the most part?

Rovers (and Mandriou) aren't of course. But playing Drogheda/Harps/Longford and the likes really isn't great prep for international football
Well for the most part it's a professional league with some part-time clubs and some clubs that are a bit of both.

[ontheotherhand]

Strange and worrying squad. Mandriou will be one of the worst players to have ever represented Ireland. Second only to his clubmate Burke ye would think.

Taking strange little swipes at Rover's players and managers on an internet forum isn't going to get the throw in retaken. Let it go.

[elatedscum]

Strange and worrying squad. Mandriou will be one of the worst players to have ever represented Ireland. Second only to his clubmate Burke ye would think.

Danno is a baller. I remember first time I ever saw him was Kenny’s first game against Luxembourg U21s. He was on the bench and I was watching the subs warm up at half-time. Towards the end, he started shooting at I guess Bazunu from just a touch short of the halfway line. Bullet after bullet, effortless. Honestly the purest striker of the ball I’ve ever seen.

He was always very good for the 21s. Anytime I’ve seen him play for Bohs or Rovers, he’s always been good to very good. He’s technically excellent. He can pass, he can dribble, he can shoot and he’s pretty quick. He’s also an excellent freekick taker.

There were obviously some issue regarding his application in training at Bohs. Derek Pender was pretty public about it when he retired, basically saying “all the ability in the world but seriously needs to knuckle down”. Then Keith Long didn’t play him for good portions of last season, which I’m sure was more to do with off the field stuff than on.

Anyway, I have no problems with him or Ogbene or McGrath. They’re all players with enough ability and limited exposure to quality opposition. If you can’t take risks in an end of season camp against Hungary and Andorra with a dozen injuries, when can you?

[Charlie Darwin]

Mandroiu obviously wouldn't be in the squad if everyone was fit but he has a lot of potential so he's worth Kenny having a look at. I don't really get the begrudgery.

[pineapple stu]

Well for the most part it's a professional league with some part-time clubs and some clubs that are a bit of both.
The thing is, the last time we had this discussion, I cited a FIFPro survey of LoI players which showed that more than half had income from a second job (https://www.the42.ie/league-of-ireland-footballers-fifpro-survey-3109735-Nov2016/), while you backed your view up by saying you watched the games.

I'm all for having my mind changed by relevant facts, but you didn't have any and still don't.

[John83]

Mandroiu obviously wouldn't be in the squad if everyone was fit but he has a lot of potential so he's worth Kenny having a look at. I don't really get the begrudgery.
What begrudgery? I see only apathy.

[Charlie Darwin]

The thing is, the last time we had this discussion, I cited a FIFPro survey of LoI players which showed that more than half had income from a second job (https://www.the42.ie/league-of-ireland-footballers-fifpro-survey-3109735-Nov2016/), while you backed your view up by saying you watched the games.

I'm all for having my mind changed by relevant facts, but you didn't have any and still don't.
Well I mean ask the clubs - you don't have to rely on reports from five years ago if you don't want to. Rovers, Dundalk, Pats, Sligo, Waterford and Derry are all full-time - their players don't have jobs outside football and it's all they do. Bohs and Harps have some players who are completely full time and some who aren't, and Longford and Drogs are a mix as well. Cork and Shels being relegated took two full-time teams out of the league. Like I just don't know why you're so set on this part-time thing when it's clearly not true.

[Charlie Darwin]

What begrudgery? I see only apathy.
I mean saying a guy is one of the worst to play for Ireland seems not exactly apathetic to me but I suppose we all have our opinions.

[pineapple stu]

Well I mean ask the clubs - you don't have to rely on reports from five years ago if you don't want to. Rovers, Dundalk, Pats, Sligo, Waterford and Derry are all full-time - their players don't have jobs outside football and it's all they do. Bohs and Harps have some players who are completely full time and some who aren't, and Longford and Drogs are a mix as well. Cork and Shels being relegated took two full-time teams out of the league. Like I just don't know why you're so set on this part-time thing when it's clearly not true.
Have you a citation on that?

You saying "It's clearly not true" isn't a source I'd trust over the players themselves telling FIFPro that the majority rely on income outside football.

What's changed in the LoI between 2015 and 2021 that you're happy to dismiss FIFPro? If anything, there's less money now than then as there's more underage teams drawing funding away from first teams.


I mean saying a guy is one of the worst to play for Ireland seems not exactly apathetic to me but I suppose we all have our opinions.
Is it not potentially a factual view?

I don't think anyone's begrudging the guy - best of luck to him - but he's clearly one of the weakest players we've ever called up. Byrne stood out as the best player in the LoI by a distance and was at best a squad player for the national team. Mandriou is a step below that again.

[ontheotherhand]

Have you a citation on that?

You saying "It's clearly not true" isn't a source I'd trust over the players themselves telling FIFPro that the majority rely on income outside football.

What's changed in the LoI between 2015 and 2021 that you're happy to dismiss FIFPro? If anything, there's less money now than then as there's more underage teams drawing funding away from first teams.


Is it not potentially a factual view?

I don't think anyone's begrudging the guy - best of luck to him - but he's clearly one of the weakest players we've ever called up. Byrne stood out as the best player in the LoI by a distance and was at best a squad player for the national team. Mandriou is a step below that again.

Interestingly you seem to have a different spin when discussing Colm Whelan getting called up to the 21s. A bit more hope in your tone there.

[pineapple stu]

Not sure what different spin you mean? I was very clear in noting (twice) that I was watching him play in the LoI First Division, and that the 21s was a big step up.

[ontheotherhand]

And it's a big step up for Mandroiu but riding in behind someone saying he might be factually the worst player to play a game for Ireland before he's kicked a ball is a different take then "here's his stats, he's good, let's see if he can step up" which I hope is a fair summary of your take on Whelans call up?

He's in a training camp as backup to Jamie McGrath most likely, not being made captain for a qualifier. Jamie McGrath who incidentally may not be at the level required either long term. But we are taking a look at a few lads who have something different. It's what these camps are for.

[pineapple stu]

Still not sure I'm following your argument tbh.

LoI players have played at 21s level before. Quite regularly in fact; there's a few of them in the current squad. The gap between 21s and seniors is huge. Underage teams regularly have players who are effectively padding because you know 80% (or whatever high figure it is) of them won't make a career out of the game, partly because the pool of available players is so much smaller.

Also by "he's good", you mean to say "he's good at LoI First Division level", which is what I posted. I think it's an important distinction.

I don't think it's unreasonable to describe Mandriou as one of the weakest players ever to be named in a national squad. It mightn't be a nice thing to say, but it's probably factual. I can't think of too many I'd have below him. It's more a reflection on the national squad rather than Mandriou himself, as I'm sure he'd acknowledge.

[CraftyToePoke]

I can't think of too many I'd have below him. It's more a reflection on the national squad rather than Mandriou himself, as I'm sure he'd acknowledge.

I'm sure he's somewhere nodding in agreement at this right now ;):D

[ontheotherhand]

Joe Lapira.

[pineapple stu]

Joe Lapira.
Yup; will happily grant you that one.

[ontheotherhand]

And I'll grant you I was surprised to see Mandroiu's name in there but at the end of the day, for me, it's a training camp and he is a player who might be able to step up so calling him the worst player to get in a squad is a bit premature. Kenny wants to bring players through for the future so who else is there around this age? I also agree with you that 21s football is very different to senior football and Whelan's call up is a different story.

Overall I can't think of many who are available who play in the 10 and I think Danny might actually be able to step up. It might suit him to be playing with better players around him. He was at his best for Rovers this season when he could just focus on linking up play in the final third and getting into dangerous positions. He's faded now that he is being asked to play central midfield and drop a bit deeper. It often looks like he could do a bit more with some more intelligent runners around him. Sure we will see.

[elatedscum]

Joe Lapira.

Joe O’Cearuill

[ontheotherhand]

Joe O’Cearuill

Staines Town legend.

[elatedscum]

Joe Lapira.

Joe O’Cearuill

Joe Gamble?

[ontheotherhand]

Joe Gamble?

All worth a punt at the time...

[elatedscum]

All worth a punt at the time...

As for Joe Murphy...

[Razors left peg]

Worst player Ive seen with multiple caps in my time watching Ireland is probably Conor Sammon

[seanfhear]

Too much Negativity, Posters.

If a Fella comes in and does his best that is all we can ask.

[pineapple stu]

And I'll grant you I was surprised to see Mandroiu's name in there but at the end of the day, for me, it's a training camp and he is a player who might be able to step up so calling him the worst player to get in a squad is a bit premature.
Which is all fair, but there's still nothing wrong with being concerned about this indication of our lack of strength in depth.

Gotta call a spade a spade here

[ontheotherhand]

Which is all fair, but there's still nothing wrong with being concerned about this indication of our lack of strength in depth.

Gotta call a spade a spade here

To be fair, if you hadn't being backing up the over the top "worst player ever" post and had instead said that his call up was a sign of our lack of depth then I'd have agreed. It's where we are l.

We had a similar conversation around bazunu. We are in a position where we need to bring on players with potential. That's why I'm open to lads like that playing. Our lack of strength in depth won't be helped by writing off players who are being blooded.

I'd be open to criticizing the players in and around the squad who have had multiple years worth of chances to do a job and failed though! There's no shortage.

[Razors left peg]

If Mandriou can do what Jamie McGrath has done then this call up early in his career will look better. McGrath has excelled with St Mirren and is rightly called up. If he was called up while he was playing with Dundalk I wouldnt have agreed with the call up.

Mandriou could have a super rest of season and get himself a good move abroad. If he does, then he could go on to have a decent international career, but as it stands right now the LOI isnt strong enough for players to play regularly for Ireland while staying in the league. Its fine at U21 level because playing mens football probably benefits them compared to lads still in youth teams. Hopefully the league grows and it becomes viable to stay long term and play internationally, but we are far from that yet.

Richie Towell is signing for Rovers soon and he will most likely become best player in the league instantly, like he was before. But we've seen that he was pretty average in the English Leagues. I've said before that if Hourihane played there he would be sensational.

I dont think Im being negative about Mandrious call up, just that it doesnt excite me right now. He is definitely one of best players in the league, I just dont think that means much in International football

[pineapple stu]

To be fair, if you hadn't being backing up the over the top "worst player ever" post and had instead said that his call up was a sign of our lack of depth then I'd have agreed. It's where we are l.
Well, at the time I was disagreeing with Charlie over a couple of things, one of which was that the view of Mandriou as one of the worst players we've called up was simply "begrudgery". I think - and still do think - it's a valid view to hold. That's the context of my original comment.

[ontheotherhand]

If Mandriou can do what Jamie McGrath has done then this call up early in his career will look better. McGrath has excelled with St Mirren and is rightly called up. If he was called up while he was playing with Dundalk I wouldnt have agreed with the call up.

Mandriou could have a super rest of season and get himself a good move abroad. If he does, then he could go on to have a decent international career, but as it stands right now the LOI isnt strong enough for players to play regularly for Ireland while staying in the league. Its fine at U21 level because playing mens football probably benefits them compared to lads still in youth teams. Hopefully the league grows and it becomes viable to stay long term and play internationally, but we are far from that yet.

Richie Towell is signing for Rovers soon and he will most likely become best player in the league instantly, like he was before. But we've seen that he was pretty average in the English Leagues. I've said before that if Hourihane played there he would be sensational.

I dont think Im being negative about Mandrious call up, just that it doesnt excite me right now. He is definitely one of best players in the league, I just dont think that means much in International football

Hourihane has only started to do well recently at Championship level though wouldn't you say? For what it's worth, Towell would've been playing Championship level with Rotherham if he hadn't decided to make more money at Salford. Completely remains to be seen what level Towell is at now. He was a standout physical specimen when he dominated for Dundalk but the league has caught up on that front now. Forrester may also have something to say about who the leagues best player is.

Bringing Mandroiu in now is the same as bringing in Parrot or Byrne or any number of other young players we've exposed to the national side during training camps to see how they gel etc. As you say it could be a great move or it could amount to nothing. It's fairly low risk.

To switch things up a bit as we all seem to be saying roughly the same thing but in different ways - who else was an option in the 10 role? We've looked bereft of ideas and creativity playing lads out of position there so far. I can't think of another option in that role who is available. I'd like to have a look at how we play with a natural 10 myself. Sometimes it's better to have someone who knows the role than an overall better player playing where he doesn't feel comfortable e.g. Matt Doherty was top quality at Wolves at RWB but has been poor for Ireland and Spurs in a more traditional RB role. I'd rather Cyrus Christie over Doherty based on form for Ireland but I know who the better overall player is.

[CraftyToePoke]

To switch things up a bit as we all seem to be saying roughly the same thing but in different ways - who else was an option in the 10 role? We've looked bereft of ideas and creativity playing lads out of position there so far. I can't think of another option in that role who is available. I'd like to have a look at how we play with a natural 10 myself. Sometimes it's better to have someone who knows the role than an overall better player

Where is Ronan playing in Switzerland ? He's playing plenty but no idea where.

[ontheotherhand]

Where is Ronan playing in Switzerland ? He's playing plenty but no idea where.

He'd be on a list along with Byrne of players I'd like to see given a chance in that role but he broke his foot.

[Diggs246]

Too much Negativity, Posters.

If a Fella comes in and does his best that is all we can ask.

That's for the nativity play in senior infants

This is our country we are talking about

[Diggs246]

Worst player Ive seen with multiple caps in my time watching Ireland is probably Conor Sammon
Defo worst competitively capped player