Andorra V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 3rd June 2021 - Friendly

[seanfhear]

No matter who you are ~ You can only do your best.

[CraftyToePoke]

He'd be on a list along with Byrne of players I'd like to see given a chance in that role but he broke his foot.

& Conor Grant, is he a 10 ?

Brian Barry Murphy going on about him here in a big way, saying he's comparable to Wes at that age and feels he will go on and play for Ireland

- https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/i-knew-how-good-he-was-ex-owl-believes-sheffield-wednesday-messed-up-in-letting-youngster-move-on-3250157

[Charlie Darwin]

Have you a citation on that?

You saying "It's clearly not true" isn't a source I'd trust over the players themselves telling FIFPro that the majority rely on income outside football.

What's changed in the LoI between 2015 and 2021 that you're happy to dismiss FIFPro? If anything, there's less money now than then as there's more underage teams drawing funding away from first teams.
What's changed is that more clubs are full-time. Why do you find it so hard to believe? I mean I don't know if FIFPro have asked since - do you know?

[Charlie Darwin]

Too much Negativity, Posters.

If a Fella comes in and does his best that is all we can ask.
I didn't name any of names of potentially worse players for a reason, mainly because many of the players could well see it themselves. He's got his call-up now and I find the reaction bizarre. Somehow I get the impression if he was playing for another LOI club, let alone Bolton Wanderers or Newport County, the reaction would be a bit different.

[pineapple stu]

What's changed is that more clubs are full-time. Why do you find it so hard to believe? I mean I don't know if FIFPro have asked since - do you know?

See the thing is you've still not given any sort of reason why I should believe you though.

A FIFPro survey of the players in the league versus a random punter on the internet. Do you not see that the actual evidence will win out every time?

As I've said, I'm all for having my mind changed here. But "Cos I said so" doesn't cut it

[tetsujin1979]

I didn't name any of names of potentially worse players for a reason, mainly because many of the players could well see it themselves. He's got his call-up now and I find the reaction bizarre. Somehow I get the impression if he was playing for another LOI club, let alone Bolton Wanderers or Newport County, the reaction would be a bit different.

To be fair, there's been a few comments about Ogbene and Horgan being called up, and the omission of Scully and Shodipo

[pineapple stu]

And there was a discussion as to whether Bazunu/Travers (both in the relegation zone in the third tier) were the capped players at the lowest clubs ever as well.

The idea that this is a Rovers bias is as fanciful as the idea we should believe a random internet poster on LoI finances over the players themselves

[tetsujin1979]

And there were no issues with the club when Jack Byrne was capped

[ifk101]

.... is as fanciful as the idea we should believe a random internet poster on LoI finances over the players themselves

Let it go.

Surveys are notoriously inaccurate. There's no obligation to be truthful in responses, no penalty for not - everything is conducted anonymously. You don't know who responded to the survey. For example, is the First Division over-represented in the sample?

A survey is a random sampling of anonymous responses that may or may not be accurate. The opinion of a random punter on the internet if you will.

Is Mandroiu full time or part time btw? If he is part time, maybe we can bracket him into a worst ever categorisation.

[pineapple stu]

As I say, I'm more than happy to be swayed by a valid counter-argument. But "I said so" isn't one. And neither is suggesting that the FIFPro survey is as flawed as you suggest. It could be the case, but that claim needs some sort of evidence to back it up. Without any evidence, I'm happy to believe the (quite reasonable-sounding) results of the survey.

[tetsujin1979]

this is all becoming off topic. If you want to discuss the professional status of League of Ireland players, please use the relevant forum
I'm ok with the ongoing discussion on Mandroiu because it's relevant to the squad and the two upcoming games

[Yard of Pace]

Hourihane has only started to do well recently at Championship level though wouldn't you say? .


Just on this, there was a thread on a Huddersfield Town forum, back probably in January or so, asking for other people's opinions on the best player(s) in the Championship (who don't play for Huddersfield), in order to answer a question put to them by a magazine or website.

Several people, none Irish, picked out Conor Hourihane.

When Hourihane scored with a free-kick against Town (a game Town somehow managed to win 4-1) I remember plenty of posters berating Town for not being alive to the threat that Hourihane poses.

He's a very highly regarded player, from what I can see, certainly in that part of Yorkshire. And it ain't just based on the season just gone.

[tetsujin1979]

1397843925851947008
Well it's official. I'm old.

[Eirambler]

Thierry Henry has a lot to answer for.

[tetsujin1979]

Was there a discussion here before about the first player born after the 2002 World Cup to be capped?

[pineapple stu]

Worldwide or for Ireland? Don't think so either way though. I do remember hearing Vincent Thill being the first player born in the 2000s to score an international goal, but that's as close as I recall to anything similar.

[tetsujin1979]

Just for Ireland. Might have been earlier, like first player born in the 2000's to be capped - Michael Obafemi if you were wondering

[ontheotherhand]

Just on this, there was a thread on a Huddersfield Town forum, back probably in January or so, asking for other people's opinions on the best player(s) in the Championship (who don't play for Huddersfield), in order to answer a question put to them by a magazine or website.

Several people, none Irish, picked out Conor Hourihane.

When Hourihane scored with a free-kick against Town (a game Town somehow managed to win 4-1) I remember plenty of posters berating Town for not being alive to the threat that Hourihane poses.

He's a very highly regarded player, from what I can see, certainly in that part of Yorkshire. And it ain't just based on the season just gone.

I think my phrasing was off - I agree. My point was that he found his level again. Not that he had only just started to find form in the Championship for the first time. He had to drop down to start playing well again.

I'm all in favour of that as well. Would much rather see lads in the squad who are playing every week and doing well in the English Championship or similar than lads who can't get a game in the league above.

[liamoo11]

If Mandriou can do what Jamie McGrath has done then this call up early in his career will look better. McGrath has excelled with St Mirren and is rightly called up. If he was called up while he was playing with Dundalk I wouldnt have agreed with the call up.

Mandriou could have a super rest of season and get himself a good move abroad. If he does, then he could go on to have a decent international career, but as it stands right now the LOI isnt strong enough for players to play regularly for Ireland while staying in the league. Its fine at U21 level because playing mens football probably benefits them compared to lads still in youth teams. Hopefully the league grows and it becomes viable to stay long term and play internationally, but we are far from that yet.

Richie Towell is signing for Rovers soon and he will most likely become best player in the league instantly, like he was before. But we've seen that he was pretty average in the English Leagues. I've said before that if Hourihane played there he would be sensational.

I dont think Im being negative about Mandrious call up, just that it doesnt excite me right now. He is definitely one of best players in the league, I just dont think that means much in International football

To me the difference is mandriou is an actual 10 with proper creative abilities and we have very few if any of those. Towell and horgan and Duffy were the types of players we had lots of when they were dominating the loi. We have such a lack of creative ability we need to try to find a 10 type player . I'd have liked to see crowley included for that reason as well.

[Razors left peg]

To me the difference is mandriou is an actual 10 with proper creative abilities and we have very few if any of those. Towell and horgan and Duffy were the types of players we had lots of when they were dominating the loi. We have such a lack of creative ability we need to try to find a 10 type player . I'd have liked to see crowley included for that reason as well.

I dont disagree that we are crying out for creativity and there is no harm in any player being called up for a training camp to get some experience. In Mandrious case its a look to see how he is alongside better players than hes used to playing with. Hopefully it gives him the motivation to get his attitude right and get a move to a more competitive league.

Crowley needs to figure out his next club move after being released by Birmingham. Its make or break time for him I would say.

[Exgrad]

If Mandriou can do what Jamie McGrath has done then this call up early in his career will look better. McGrath has excelled with St Mirren and is rightly called up. If he was called up while he was playing with Dundalk I wouldnt have agreed with the call up.

I wonder would it have helped his career if he had been? Would he be further along? I don't know enough about him to say how far he could go, but he was very highly rated from an early age. Maybe we should have learned something from Hoolahan. I have long thought we would be better getting high performing young players from the LOI involved, rather than the lower league journeymen we seem to hang our hat on (who make **** all impact for us). Especially now some of the young players can be measured in European competition. Maybe McGrath would be a step further ahead in his development.

[pineapple stu]

Graham Burke is back where he was when he was capped. Probably the only recent direct comparison? I think Jack Byrne was very much on the radar before being capped.

I don't think giving LoI caps really adds a huge amount. There's plenty of club scouting and a sub international cap won't give much extra info

[Razors left peg]

I wonder would it have helped his career if he had been? Would he be further along? I don't know enough about him to say how far he could go, but he was very highly rated from an early age. Maybe we should have learned something from Hoolahan. I have long thought we would be better getting high performing young players from the LOI involved, rather than the lower league journeymen we seem to hang our hat on (who make **** all impact for us). Especially now some of the young players can be measured in European competition. Maybe McGrath would be a step further ahead in his development.

With the new Brexit rules calling up young players from the LOI might become a bit more commonplace to be fair. As Ive said I genuinely love the LOI, I was raised on Galway United from when I was a kid and with the Watch LOI service Im loving that I can see plenty of games in the States now... I dont believe Mandriou is on the same level as Wes ever was but sometimes players surprise us. I hope Im wrong on this one when I say I dont believe he will ever be more than a very good LOI player. The training camp wont hurt, especially when its not like hes taking the place of someone else that really should be there instead.

[John83]

I think there's a discussion at cross-purposes here. The people saying things like "Mandroiu is the worst player ever selected for an Ireland squad" are not criticising Mandroiu. I think we'd all be happy to see him do well. (Perhaps mainly after leaving Shams!) The point is not to crap on him, it's that the national team has never been so threadbare. It's not like people are pointing to brilliant young players in his position even playing in the Championship who were left out for him.

Someone mentioned Joe Lapira as another candidate for worst ever NT call-up. I remember another widely derided Staunton pick: Alan O'Brien. These days, a young winger at Newcastle getting a call-up wouldn't merit a comment.

[Yard of Pace]

Someone mentioned Joe Lapira as another candidate for worst ever NT call-up. I remember another widely derided Staunton pick: Alan O'Brien. These days, a young winger at Newcastle getting a call-up wouldn't merit a comment.

I dunno John, if said player was starting a qualifier against Germany I reckon it'd draw some attention.

I actually remember Alan from primary school. He was very fast and powerful but compared to some of the lads in school I don't recall him being that skillful. Sometimes makes me wonder what could have been of some of the players I encountered over the years.

[ontheotherhand]

I think there's a discussion at cross-purposes here. The people saying things like "Mandroiu is the worst player ever selected for an Ireland squad" are not criticising Mandroiu. I think we'd all be happy to see him do well. (Perhaps mainly after leaving Shams!) The point is not to crap on him, it's that the national team has never been so threadbare. It's not like people are pointing to brilliant young players in his position even playing in the Championship who were left out for him.

Someone mentioned Joe Lapira as another candidate for worst ever NT call-up. I remember another widely derided Staunton pick: Alan O'Brien. These days, a young winger at Newcastle getting a call-up wouldn't merit a comment.

There's a way to get the above sentiment across without needing to call anybody the worst player ever selected or mention their clubmate for no good reason. I think everyone bar the original poster certainly came from the place you suggest above. The original comment....not so much. But who cares ultimately? Maybe he is the worst we've called up. I doubt it but there's an argument to make there - if you really wanted to make it. I'm not sure what that argument achieves for you if the whole point is to discuss how threadbare the national team is though. Why focus on one player as your data point, particularly when it's obvious how far down the pecking order he would be if our better options were available? And why, if you think the team is threadbare, wouldn't you be looking for any and all potential options to develop? Again, the more interesting question for me is - who else should we be looking at in the 10 role?

Re: Alan O'Brien - it wouldn't be a shock these days if he got called up as is.....

[Fixer82]

I remember him having lightning pace.
He got through on goal with acres of space V Holland in a friendly under Stan and fluffed his lines. We lost 4-0. If he’d scored we might’ve spoken about him a bit more

[Snapshot]

I have a lot of respect for Daniel Mandroiu, arguably the worst - but zero respect for R.M. Keane - arguably the best.

[elatedscum]

people saying things like "Mandroiu is the worst player ever selected for an Ireland squad" are not criticising Mandroiu.

Doesn’t mean they’re not wrong.

If I said that right now at least, Mandriou is a better footballer than Troy Parrott and Lee O’Connor, I certainly think it’s not a crazy take. And if he’s not the worst player in the current squad, then he’s definitely not the worst player of all time.

[pineapple stu]

There's an argument for that alright. I'm not sure I'd agree, but certainly it's a reasonable view to have.

I don't see why some are so pointed about the topic being discussed. As John says, it's a criticism of our squad, not Mandriou

[Fixer82]

Let him play a match for us before we start saying he's the worst ever player to be called up for Ireland.

[pineapple stu]

Let him play a match for us
If I was being mischievous, I'd say I'd rather not! :)

[jbyrne]

its only a training camp with a couple of end of international season friendlies thrown in. lots of players missing, a few new ones getting a try out.
a discussion like this about the worst player to appear in a squad for us is hugely insulting to the player(s) concerned. more worthy of another fans forum i can think of.....

[Eminence Grise]

The unspoken question is whether it's the worst squad Mandroiu's ever been in!

On the face if it, a LoI XI should be capable of giving Andorra a game, so it's pretty low risk bringing one player into the fold. He can only end up with either more or fewer caps than Jason Byrne, Glen Crowe, Joe Gamble and Alan Bennett - more, maybe he makes it and we all benefit; fewer, he's another footnote. Ultimately, I'd rather see circumstances evolve where, initially, the padded out spaces in friendly squads go to young LoI players rather than twilighters in League 1, and gradually every squad could have a handful of LoI players without it being considered weakened or unusual.

[Demesne Lad]

Sammie Szmodics (25, midfield) called up to the BIG squad. (Granny from Granard).

[tetsujin1979]

Peterborough's Sam Szmodics called up, along with Mark Travers; Randolph, Connolly, and Robinson all out with injury: https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/sam-szmodics-receives-first-call-up-as-three-ruled-out
Honestly, I've never heard of this guy, but he seems to have a decent record this season with the Posh, 16 goals in 46 appearances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sammie_Szmodics#Career_statistics
Does this mean that Scully and Shodipo are even further from the first team than we thought? Kenny mentioned Sykes was on the periphery of the squad when it was announced, so why isn't he involved now?
I can understand not wanting to break up the U21 squad any more than it already has been, but Conor Coventry has been involved with the senior team, so why not call him up?

[Razors left peg]

Connolly spends more time on social media than he does on the football pitch at this point. Fairly surprised that Obafemi wasnt called up to replace him. A huge preseason needed from both those lads.

[pineapple stu]

Honestly, I've never heard of this guy
And that's saying something!

[pineapple stu]

Actually, Randolph out is the bigger issue. How's Kelleher's fitness? Don't want to restart Keeper Wars from March, but I think we're generally agreed that Kelleher has to get game time here.

[passinginterest]

I suppose it's potentially a good sign in terms of the FAI scouting network that they've managed to call up a player that wasn't on the radar here at all. Can't remember that happening before really (apart from Lapira I suppose). What's the story with Marcus Harness? Would have expected him to be called up by now if he's not injured too?

[CraftyToePoke]

Honestly, I've never heard of this guy

Attacking midfielder, assists man with a goal in him now and again too. Was key to Peterborough getting promoted, was on loan there the season prior and they spent a million quid to get him permanently from Bristol. He didn't establish himself in the Championship with Bristol but is back in that division next season. Was key also to Toney top scoring the division a year ago as well at Clark Harris doing so this season for Peterborough, creative player.

One of the better players in L1 is what id say and had no idea he was eligible. Wonder who's next.

[Exgrad]

So, anyway, is Sam Szmodics the worst player to ever be called into an Ireland squad? Time will tell.

[Diggs246]

Sammie Szmodics (25, midfield) called up to the BIG squad. (Granny from Granard).

Who!?

[pineapple stu]

So, anyway, is Sam Szmodics the worst player to ever be called into an Ireland squad? Time will tell.
I think he's only in there for intel on Hungary tbh :)

[ontheotherhand]

Actually, Randolph out is the bigger issue. How's Kelleher's fitness? Don't want to restart Keeper Wars from March, but I think we're generally agreed that Kelleher has to get game time here.


Rnadolph being out at least opens the door for Kelleher to start. I'm sure all 3 will get a bit of time.

What does the rest of the team look like?

I'd like to see something like this start:

Kelleher
Coleman, O'Shea, Egan, Obamidele, Manning

Cullen, Hourihane, Molumby

McGrath
Idah


With Hourihane a little bit further forward than the other 2 in midfield.

[Diggs246]

I defo give McGrath a start if he play that 10 role andb8ve never seen the man play that's how desperate I am

[pineapple stu]

Rnadolph being out at least opens the door for Kelleher to start. I'm sure all 3 will get a bit of time.
Not sure if two games is great for giving three keepers time, especially when Kelleher is behind the other two in terms of international experience. Based on the March games, I wouldn't want Bazunu or Travers anywhere close to the starting line-up for our next game (Portugal away), so I think we need to have a proper look at Kelleher now in case Randolph is unavailable. I'd start Kelleher in both games, give one of the others a half against Andorra (assuming we're doing ok) and give Kelleher the full 90 against the more challenging Hungary.

It's really hard to pick a starting XI out of that squad that would excite you or give you any confidence for the immediate future.

[ontheotherhand]

Not sure if two games is great for giving three keepers time, especially when Kelleher is behind the other two in terms of international experience. Based on the March games, I wouldn't want Bazunu or Travers anywhere close to the starting line-up for our next game (Portugal away), so I think we need to have a proper look at Kelleher now in case Randolph is unavailable. I'd start Kelleher in both games, give one of the others a half against Andorra (assuming we're doing ok) and give Kelleher the full 90 against the more challenging Hungary.

It's really hard to pick a starting XI out of that squad that would excite you or give you any confidence for the immediate future.


Possibly so. I'd be happy enough with another 15 mins for Bazunu with the clear directive not to get too creative....Travers should be happy enough just to be in the camp given he was a late call up and I still believe Bazunu has the higher ceiling but I know we disagree there.

Kelleher is still the most immediate heir apparent to Randolph so I'd expect him to start both games as you say.

Elsewhere I'd like to see how Ogbene stacks up. It wasn't that long ago that he was an exciting if not exactly dominant player in the LoI and I haven't been following him since.

I'd of course love Mandroiu to get 15-20 minutes. Could see it happening against Andorra and it's always nice to see your club's player step out in the green jersey. Regardless of what it says about the squad we have available, it's a credit to the lad after all the question marks from last season about his application.

On your last point - I suppose it depends on what excites you or what you see as progress? I'm ok with us developing players a bit and the associated struggles we might have to endure. It'll be enough to see a few green shoots as my expectations are pretty low for the next number of years.

[tetsujin1979]

I suppose it's potentially a good sign in terms of the FAI scouting network that they've managed to call up a player that wasn't on the radar here at all. Can't remember that happening before really (apart from Lapira I suppose)
Cyrus Christie was a player that nobody knew was eligible when he was called up

[pineapple stu]

I still believe Bazunu has the higher ceiling but I know we disagree there.
No, I think Bazunu has a higher ceiling than Travers too. I just think both were really poor in the March games and neither is ready yet.


On your last point - I suppose it depends on what excites you or what you see as progress? I'm ok with us developing players a bit and the associated struggles we might have to endure. It'll be enough to see a few green shoots as my expectations are pretty low for the next number of years.
I think there's a few players in there who, in and of themselves, would be an interesting call-up. The problem is we seem to have a squad full of them, and that's not good enough. Those kind of players are a percentage call at times; they're not all going to become senior regulars.

We need to beat Andorra - they are poor, with all due respect to them - but I think we also need to beat them playing Kenny's passing football style. A 1-0 in Gibraltar win would be a disaster for example. Yet I can't shake the fact that they've never rolled over for us. I think we're in for a nervy time of it next week.