2023 UEFA Under-21 Championship

[zero]

finished 1-1 in bosnia which mitigates this result to some degree. Italy being held by montenegro currently (HT).

[Kingdom]

Brian Maher - hadn't a whole lot to do. His restarts are very good. He was solid under the high ball, but at the same time, didn't look convincing either. couple of times he really was stretching to get the ball under control. Very vocal throughout. No chance with the penalty and didn't really look convinced he was going to save it either.

Lee OConnor - thought he was excellent throughout. He made a couple of really sloppy passes at bad times but they were clear lapses of concentration. Was an outlet for a lot of what we did well. I can’t for the life of me understand why he isn’t playing higher up. He’ll be a senior squad regular by the end of this campaign. I couldn’t tell if it was him or McEntee that jumped in to give away the penalty. It was hard to see if it was a penalty, but it was definitely a rash challenge and stupid whoever it was. The one thing that would make me question is whether the player went to ground before any challenge was made.
Second caveat is that I’m pretty sure O’Connor started the move that lead to penalty surged forward with the ball into space aggressively.

On the other side, Bagan was unremarkable. Didn’t do anything and nothing happened down his side. Lost possession a couple of times, but in the main just recycled the ball sufficiently. Can't really recall him offering much support to Ferry in attack either. Wouldn't be inclined to be pushing him for the senior team just yet.

Of the two centre-halves, there's a lot of meh there to be honest. I simply don't rate Oisin McEntee. He's not bad, but I just don't think he's going to be at the level required - but that said he was good against Bosnia, but this was flatter I though. Pretty sure he gave away the penalty. O'Brien isn't aggressive enough for the size of him. he is very composed on the ball - sometimes it looks like he's mawdling a bit to be honest, but how much of that is down to his languid long stride I don't know. Highly rated at Palace, I dunno, he looked a bit vulnerable at times yesterday.

Ferry was disappointing in the most part. Frustrated a lot of the time, he finally came into it only to be substituted and had a really good 2/3 mins just before being hooked. Wasn’t happy about it either. To me, he looks like he’s reached his ceiling. He didn’t play well at lb the other night and he only had a small burst yday at Lw.

Overall, some really good link up between Coventry and Kilkenny, they are both very comfortable on the ball. I actually thought Coventry was the better of the two overall - he was certainly better when Luxembourg had the ball, and I'd say his passing was more decisive, and crisper on a poor pitch, whereas Kilkenny was better in the close exchanges. He danced his way through 3 Lux players in a very tight spot early in the second half (I think), but having made the space for himself brilliantly, the pass went back to McEntee rather than wide to Wright where we'd an overload on. You can see how his winger/dribbling skills help him in tight situations. Coventry is an excellent communicator. Always available and always talking to those around him - it was impressive to hear, absolutely captain material.

Wright was our main threat again, but his penalty was poor. He has a running battle with their wingback and centre half on his side. he's a fully fledged beast now, and he looked pretty ****ed off at the treatment he was receiving, not protected from, and penalised when he showed any attempt to give it back. But until the substitutions, he was central to any threat that we had. He'll get close to our senior squad at some point I think.

Took too long for Devoy to get into the game, but when he did he was good, looking to move forward and receive forward rather than the lateral and wide passes of the first half. Thought he looked a little leggy to be honest, whether it was tiredness, the heat, or something else. I’d nearly say he didn’t look as athletic compared to Gav & Conor, and he doesn’t have that sudden acceleration they have with the ball, but is better in close control than either of the other two. I would say that the same failings in the senior team midfield over the past few years were evident yday with the 21s, there isn't enough short, incisive forward passes, and few enough occasions when a player would advance slightly looking for it. Having two sitting and one slightly advanced (how it looked to me) probably doesn't help, the reverse would have been a better option in the circumstances. That said, Lux were narrow, and happy for us to go wide it seemed, until the substitutions...

Sad to say but the overwhelmingly most disappointing performance was Evan Ferguson. It was not a good performance, it was bad. The hall didn’t come to him, but he didn’t show for it either, in fact I was quite surprised by how little he moved. He looks to me like a guy who needs to be allowed to move more freely, and the rigidity of Cf doesn’t suit him. That being said, we were absolutely ****e at getting the ball to him and ensuring he was involved, Fand midfielf let him down in that regard, but he didn’t help himself either. Honestly, it looked a little too soon. But there’s a caveat to that below in his defence. He looked upset afterwards and was not in the changing room with the majority of others, but over the side of the pitch with his Da and someone else.


There was a such a difference when Whelan and Moran came on that it was remarkable. The most worrying thing for me, was our rigidity to the 433. Ferguson had two spare men around him all the time, and as mentioned was adrift. We should have put someone up alongside him, or tweaked our formation slightly. Even when we made the substitutions, it wasn’t a huge change to the system, Whelan went up top but a little withdrawn, and Moran went left but drifting inside a touch. And it worked almost instantly. It gave space to attack into, and Wright became more prominent, with OConnor exploiting the space behind him as an option. The two channels between the the Wing-backs, and the two channels between the wide cb and stopper all saw action. The goal came from such a move.

Colm Whelan is a funny one. He looks chubby, has a massive ar$e (I say that with pride as holder of a massive ar$e even when I was skinny and I mean massive in the context of how a young wan from Crumlin would say it) and the total opposite to Kayode (who didn’t make it off the bench). But this lad is a bit of craic. His movement immediately was an improvement, and the touch, shift of body and precision of his shot for the goal was a thing to behold. It really was. Even in the last minute he collected a clearance in the centre circle and just ran at the three cbs. He had Wright chasing frantically to try and support, and my initial reaction was that he’d lose the ball attempting to do what he was doing , and we’d be hit on the counter, but he beat one, beat two, and was just at the box before being taken from behind. If anything I thought he could have shot when he turned the second defender, as he’d a few yards and spade to swing the leg.

Noß and Johansson both came on, for Devoy and Coventry respectively. I thought it was a poor decision to take off Coventry, rather than Kilkenny, but it might have been fitness. As it happened they scored immediately afterwards.

Johansson, not a lot to say. He moved the ball well, but I was surprised by the lack of urgency in his play when they equalised, and he didn’t move around the pitch as effortlessly as I’d have hoped for. He almost stole it at the end, a small toe poke after a scrambled corner just went the wrong side of the post. D have two concerns. The first is that he has the air of a fella who looks like it’s just going to happen for him - like it’s predetermined or something (little qualifier below). The second is that I thought for a brief cameo, he took himself into some stupid positions, and by the time play had moved on it took too long for him to realise. Thinking about it after the game, I sort of understand why he may have moved so many times already, and why he’s not later for Sittard yet.
Noß’ movement (again in his cameo) is superb. He has a spark about him, and he will be interesting to watch in the next two years. He’s a tough boyo too - he took one disgusting tackle that had me concerned. But he was up again after a moment and right back involved.

It was great to be able to hear the interaction between the referees team and the players. The ref rode us every opportunity he could. He had perfect English, as had the linesman on our side, and they were constantly bullying the Irish players - sounds ridiculous but that's what they were doing. I saw a reference elsewhere to cyncial Irish fouls - trust me on this, the cynicism was from the Luxembourgish. Coventry, Kilkenny and Noss all had potential leg-breakers done on them. To compound this was the fact that two of them were given as Luxembourg freekicks! There was a lot of off-the-ball fouling and dragging being done to the Irish players.

Finally, this is the first time I’ve looked at an underage teams setup and thought, nah, this uniform formation has its drawbacks. We should have won that game - they were poor, they were absolutely filthy, and they had the conning the ref to a tee. They also are a tee of European immigrants from what I could see, gone are the days of the Luxembourgish exclusively being the first 11.

Think that’s about it, apart from the Toyota hybrid CH-V being a stinking noisy hunk of ****. 😅

[Kingdom]

Missed the first 15 mins due to a crash outside Luxembourg, crap planning by me, and a mixup about Covid. So the below is based on 80 mins worth of a game, isn't as good a review as Elatedscum does, because I conclude that I just can't watch an Ireland game objectively anymore!

- The ground in Dudelange is shít. It's not fair to ask 21s to play a game there. The pitch was worse than when Bohs played there. It's like Finn Park in November.
- There was some serious talent in the stands. 28 degree heat will do that.
- It's absolutely two points dropped. They were poor, and I would find it hard to see many (if any) of them go on to be senior internationals. maybe the big 7, but he was really just a brute and very athletic. The two midgets they had up front/withdrawn were technically good, but more interested in drawing fouls and screaming like they were wounded victims at Bastogne. It was so bad that I laughed really loud in the second half, and the 8 gestured at me and the linesman turned to see.

[Exgrad]

Idah had games were he struggled at 21s level in that role, particularly in the Toulon tournament i think. Tough going for Ferguson at 16 trying to do it.

[CSAD]

From watching the stream it did look like the Luxembourg players were conning the ref from the start but the only thing worse than that is a ref that lets it happen. Combined with the **** pitch and it ruled out any chance of this being a semi watchable or free flowing game which was Luxembourg’s only chance of getting a point…

Would love to know refs like this can look in the mirror and claim to be football lovers yet they condone the **** Luxembourg pullled for the whole game…

[Stuttgart88]

From watching the stream it did look like the Luxembourg players were conning the ref from the start but the only thing worse than that is a ref that lets it happen. Actually one thing that really annoyed me against Azerbaijan was that the ref was alert to their keeper's antics from very early on. He warned him on 30 minutes. He should have just booked him then. Their keeper reminded me of the super-fragile Polish keeper who collapsed in a heap every time he caught the ball in the ultimately fatal 0-0 at home to Poland in Euro 1992 qualifying, and of course our old friend Dudu Awat of Israel at old Lansdowne in 2005.

[Kingdom]

Actually one thing that really annoyed me against Azerbaijan was that the ref was alert to their keeper's antics from very early on. He warned him on 30 minutes. He should have just booked him then. Their keeper reminded me of the super-fragile Polish keeper who collapsed in a heap every time he caught the ball in the ultimately fatal 0-0 at home to Poland in Euro 1992 qualifying, and of course our old friend Dudu Awat of Israel at old Lansdowne in 2005.

It was incredible that having delayed the game further to run 40 yds to warn the keeper about time-wasting, having done so already, that he didn't book him. Incredible.

[TonyD]

Idah had games were he struggled at 21s level in that role, particularly in the Toulon tournament i think. Tough going for Ferguson at 16 trying to do it.

I haven’t seen Ferguson but I would have thought it’s way too early for a 16 year old to be in the under 21 side. A general observation of course, and maybe he’s an exception. I’d also worry about burnout for a player being pushed forward that young.

[CSAD]

I haven’t seen Ferguson but I would have thought it’s way too early for a 16 year old to be in the under 21 side. A general observation of course, and maybe he’s an exception. I’d also worry about burnout for a player being pushed forward that young.

He’s around the same age Parrott and both with experience and his physique Ferguson is probably more prepared for this level.

Definitely ready for this level in terms of the whole package. I still think Crawford made far too many changes though which meant quite afew players struggled including Ferguson.

[tetsujin1979]

Garcia McNulty included in Wolfsburg's UEFA Youth Championship squad, they start their campaign tomorrow against Lille at 1pm.
I think he's the only Irish player in the group stage: https://www.uefa.com/uefayouthleague/clubs/

[tetsujin1979]

Garcia McNulty included in Wolfsburg's UEFA Youth Championship squad, they start their campaign tomorrow against Lille at 1pm.
I think he's the only Irish player in the group stage: https://www.uefa.com/uefayouthleague/clubs/

UEFA are streaming the game on their website here: https://www.uefa.tv/match/live/200026/2033552

[tetsujin1979]

Two squads announces for the qualifiers in October against Luxembourg and Montenegro, with UK and Germany based players facing quarantine if they travel to Montenegro, currently designated a "red zone" by both governments.
1443886223777468422
Little bit more about some of the omissions here: https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/crawford-warns-u-21s-of-implications-of-stalling-on-vaccine-40909245.html

Ryan Johansson has been left out of the squad as Crawford wants him to establish himself at club level, a chance of that in a friendly with Fortuna Sittard next week, while the continental-based trio of Anselmo Garcia McNulty, John Joe Finn and Danny Rose all drop down to the U-19s for a spell

[liamoo11]

Two squads announces for the qualifiers in October against Luxembourg and Montenegro, with UK and Germany based players facing quarantine if they travel to Montenegro, currently designated a "red zone" by both governments.
1443886223777468422
Little bit more about some of the omissions here: https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/crawford-warns-u-21s-of-implications-of-stalling-on-vaccine-40909245.html

I hadn't realised Liam delap was in any way thinking of coming on board it's interesting.

[Olé Olé]

The fact that talks haven't progressed might imply how interested Delap even is!

Good news on Darragh Burns though. When I saw how well he was going this season I had hoped we could urge him to come back to us.

[liamoo11]

The fact that talks haven't progressed might imply how interested Delap even is!

Good news on Darragh Burns though. When I saw how well he was going this season I had hoped we could urge him to come back to us.

Best of luck to burns but I actually feel a bit sorry for the North here. Burns was in our squads at 17s but choose to go with the North but obviously never really intended to stay with them which is messing them around a bit to be fair. Like that lad from rangers who played under 19s for is a few years ago purely to get the Scots to call him up for their squad.

Totally off topic I see the spurs player donlon who is supposedly top class has opted for England despite been born in the North and living there for 8 or 9 years and having loads of family in the North and playing in the north's youth teams

[tetsujin1979]

The qualifier against Luxembourg on Friday will be on RTE2: https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/listings/television/#!/rte2/2021-10-08

[elatedscum]

Best of luck to burns but I actually feel a bit sorry for the North here. Burns was in our squads at 17s but choose to go with the North but obviously never really intended to stay with them which is messing them around a bit to be fair. Like that lad from rangers who played under 19s for is a few years ago purely to get the Scots to call him up for their squad.

Totally off topic I see the spurs player donlon who is supposedly top class has opted for England despite been born in the North and living there for 8 or 9 years and having loads of family in the North and playing in the north's youth teams

The quotes from either Colin O’Brien or I think probably Tom Mohan, combined with I think his father and maybe his club a few years ago always implied as much. Reading between the lines, that when he was recruited, it was on the back of him not being selected for ireland and the north played up the ‘come with us for now and you can always decide to change down the line, you’re not tied to us forever etc etc’.

I’d worry that the north will drag out his change for 2-3 years like they did with McEneff and Duffy. Absolutely criminal that Ireland sort Deccers in 2 weeks and they just sit on the application for years (which FIFA described as ‘unexplainable’

[elatedscum]

As for the squad, I know Johansson was explained but kinda mad if he was able to travel to Macedonia, they wouldn’t call him up, same with McNulty and Finn.

As for the LOI based squad, Ryan O’Kane and Aaron Bolger are two I would have expected to be involved.

Anyone else see this bizarre article? https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1002/1250349-caulfield-loi-players-being-treated-like-guinea-pigs/

[Eirambler]

Some people just go around looking for things to get annoyed about sadly.

[liamoo11]

As for the squad, I know Johansson was explained but kinda mad if he was able to travel to Macedonia, they wouldn’t call him up, same with McNulty and Finn.

As for the LOI based squad, Ryan O’Kane and Aaron Bolger are two I would have expected to be involved.

Anyone else see this bizarre article? https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1002/1250349-caulfield-loi-players-being-treated-like-guinea-pigs/

That murphy lad at gslway looked very handy at left back for the 18s a few weeks ago. I'm sure he is delighted to be called up

[tetsujin1979]

Starting XI announced, game is on RTE2, and the RTE player
1446500276773527583

[elatedscum]

Comfortable enough win without looking great. It took going 2-0 up before Luxembourg stopped defending with 11 men in their own half. No real standout performances but Coventry and Kilkenny were comfortable. Kerrigan didn’t look out of place for his debut. Kayode’s touch still lets him down but Ferguson didn’t do enough to really show he’s the better option. Noss looked bright when he came on. Maher is a pretty good keeper.

[passinginterest]

Comfortable enough win without looking great. It took going 2-0 up before Luxembourg stopped defending with 11 men in their own half. No real standout performances but Coventry and Kilkenny were comfortable. Kerrigan didn’t look out of place for his debut. Kayode’s touch still lets him down but Ferguson didn’t do enough to really show he’s the better option. Noss looked bright when he came on. Maher is a pretty good keeper.

I think that’s fair enough. I like the look of Bagan, he looks a good reader of the game, didn’t do anything to spectacular but made some good choices with his passes and choosing when to take on his man. Good instincts. And the one big criticism I’d have of Kayode is really poor instincts, quiet a few of his bad touches seemed to be down to him just not anticipating the ball coming into him. Noss definitely had a good impact and I think Wright is still a bit raw but has huge potential.

[tetsujin1979]

Despite his size, Kayode was pushed around a bit up front, and goal aside he didn't do much. Noss showed more in the 20 minutes than Kayode did for the 70 that he played. Noss really needs a goal though.
Luxembourg barely left their half of the pitch in the second 45 minutes, although Maher did make a great save from a breakaway

We need a win against Macedonia on Tuesday to put daylight between them and us, and to draw level with Sweden on ten points before we play them in November

[elatedscum]

FAI saying we are taking a 29 man squad to Macedonia and changes in the UK red list allowed all but 5 players from the original squad to travel. As far as I can see, everyone in their list except Blair, McEntee, Watson and Wright are missing, which is just 4. Saying that, Blair and Watson didn't make the squad on Friday and Wright came off injured, so who knows...

Wright is probably the only real loss. We don't have anyone with his skillset available to come in out wide, it'll probably be a centre midfielder playing there...

[JR89]

1447930625860714496

[tetsujin1979]

Coverage starting on RTE2 now

[elatedscum]

Coverage starting on RTE2 now

Bad decision by Maher to come out. 1-0 to Montenegro

[CSAD]

This start is a end result of not being organized and being frantic, playing straight into Montenegro’s hands…

[elatedscum]

You'd have to question some of the selection: Gilbert, Ferry in particular. Noss on the left and Kerrigan on the right would have been my choice. Also, time will tell re Ferguson vs Whelan vs Kayode. So far, the front 3 don't look up to it. Ross Tierney contributing more than anyone going forward

[passinginterest]

Dreadful for half an hour. Looked like a switch to 4-4-1-1 then with Ferry switching to the right and Tierney getting closer to Ferguson. Progressively better from that point on and might have got one back. Seems to be a tricky wind and I think it’ll be in our backs second half. Definitely not out of the game but need to build on the last 15 mins of the first half.

[elatedscum]

clear penalty on kayode not given. another peno given now

[elatedscum]

coventry misses it

[elatedscum]

jesus these 21s make it hard for themselves. that's probably 3 points dropped across 2 games with missed penalties

[Poor Student]

I was just looking at the qualifying schedules for U17s & U19s on wikipedia and I noticed our European co-efficient rankings are 9th and 10th respectively yet we're only 23rd at U21 level. Why does the level of comparative achievement and performance markedly decline at U21 level? As a smaller nation with a shallow pool are we cannibalising the U21s sooner and to a greater extent than other nations that surpass us at U21s? Is coaching inferior? I know in years gone by we used to blame Don Givens, jobs for the boys etc but the difference in results is quite stark between those levels.

[pineapple stu]

I think a part of it is the lack of a fully-pro environment at home for players to move into at that age. Half the current U21 squad are LoI-based - there's very limited options for full-time positions in the LoI, and the structure of LoI clubs by and large isn't going to be as professional as at other clubs. There's a similar disparity in the UEFA Youth League, where our clubs do ok at U19 level, but compare Molde and UCD as clubs and see where the respective players in our 2017 tie have done since. It's not just Haaland who's done well on that Molde team, whereas Farrugia is probably the highest-profile UCD player, and he's at Rovers.

I'd say pro academies for 19s up would make a big difference, but the money isn't there.

If that is the case, then Brexit will mean it'll become a big deal fairly soon. Which would be a positive as it would force us to address it - sink or swim, effectively.

[ifk101]

I think a part of it is the lack of a fully-pro environment at home for players to move into at that age. Half the current U21 squad are LoI-based - there's very limited options for full-time positions in the LoI, and the structure of LoI clubs by and large isn't going to be as professional as at other clubs. There's a similar disparity in the UEFA Youth League, where our clubs do ok at U19 level, but compare Molde and UCD as clubs and see where the respective players in our 2017 tie have done since. It's not just Haaland who's done well on that Molde team, whereas Farrugia is probably the highest-profile UCD player, and he's at Rovers.

I'd say pro academies for 19s up would make a big difference, but the money isn't there.

If that is the case, then Brexit will mean it'll become a big deal fairly soon. Which would be a positive as it would force us to address it - sink or swim, effectively.

I don't disagree with that you are saying but see if from a different angle. While not necessarily currently or with the last batch of U21s, I've generally felt the U21 LOI players have been more effective than their (technically better) UK based counterparts simply because they are playing first-team football (would point to the UCD chap Kerrigan who played against Luxembourg - thought he made quite a strong impact (on his debut?)). The UK based players selected at U21 are not always first team footballers and if they are, they are on the radar of a senior call-up. If we are wondering why there is a drop in ranking from U17/U19 to U21 level, it is as much down to our technically better players not getting first team football in the UK, when our peers playing in other leagues are, as domestic structure failings.

[pineapple stu]

Oh they can be technically quite efficient, for sure, but their development is still hindered by playing a key developmental phase in a largely part-time environment. This is looking at U19s up, starting with guys who maybe aren't necessarily getting regular first-team LoI football and certainly aren't fully pro. The comparison between a fairly modest club like Molde and any LoI side (even Rovers) is quite stark.

I think your latter point is the same point I made though. Yes, other 21s players are often playing first-team football at home. We're an outlier in Europe in that we export players at 16 to a foreign academy. If they were able to stay at home and come through the ranks here - like in almost every other European country - then they'd be getting first-team LoI ball at 19-22 or so, and then moving to England for decent fees if good enough. I think our approach to those key developmental years is very lacking (and that's before you look at players going to England who come back three years later without having made it - which is the majority of them)

[elatedscum]

I was just looking at the qualifying schedules for U17s & U19s on wikipedia and I noticed our European co-efficient rankings are 9th and 10th respectively yet we're only 23rd at U21 level. Why does the level of comparative achievement and performance markedly decline at U21 level? As a smaller nation with a shallow pool are we cannibalising the U21s sooner and to a greater extent than other nations that surpass us at U21s? Is coaching inferior? I know in years gone by we used to blame Don Givens, jobs for the boys etc but the difference in results is quite stark between those levels.

Campaigns are longer, so results turn around slower. We've only had one campaign since Noel King left and it went a little pear shaped at the end. If you look at the current eligible squad, you could have a team of:

Bazunu

O'Connor
Omobamidele
Collins
Bagan

Coventry
Kilkenny

Knight
Parrott
Connolly

Idah

That's a team that would win the group.

Compared to other teams in our u21 group, total eligible players in the senior squad in this window:

Ireland 7
Luxembourg 6
Italy 2
Bosnia 1
Montenegro 0
Sweden 0

For a wider sample, let's also look at our Senior group:

Ireland 7
Luxembourg 6
Azerbaijan 2
Serbia 2
Portugal 1

I think the issue with Noel King was a lot to do with picking the wrong players, the football was also pretty agricultural. But the fact guys like Harry Charsley and Conor Dimiao were playing and Jack Byrne didn't make a single squad. You could really pick apart about 10 of the squad members at the time. Jamie McGrath was ignored till the last game or two after he won the young player of the year in LOI and then he got a token call-up. Talbot and Kelleher largely ignored for Bossin. Ogbene ignored. In form lads like Cleary, Daire O'Connor, Jimmy Dunne, Dan Crowley. Tonnes of lads who never had a hope of progressing to the senior side: Rory Hale, Joe Quigley, Shaun Donnelan etc etc. That's that last group. The ones before that were played in Waterford, so i didn't see them. There was a sense that he was involved in convincing players to come on board, so he felt a debt to them to keep them involved and he trusted 'his group', so when the guys from 1998 graduated u19s

Declan Rice, Josh Cullen and Ryan Manning largely carried that side with the occasional cameo from Grego-Cox, Curtis, Shodipo and Ronan Hale. We ended up coming third.

The Kenny campaign was looking great after 7 games, really good results, bar losing away to Iceland. Maybe the squad was a little gutted for the last 3 games but losing to Iceland at home and losing to an Italy team which was an u20 team because their u21s were in isolation was pretty bad. Came 3rd again.

Looks like we're on pace for another 3rd place finish in this campaign. Shame because the 2000/2001 groups were fantastic.

[CSAD]

I was just looking at the qualifying schedules for U17s & U19s on wikipedia and I noticed our European co-efficient rankings are 9th and 10th respectively yet we're only 23rd at U21 level. Why does the level of comparative achievement and performance markedly decline at U21 level? As a smaller nation with a shallow pool are we cannibalising the U21s sooner and to a greater extent than other nations that surpass us at U21s? Is coaching inferior? I know in years gone by we used to blame Don Givens, jobs for the boys etc but the difference in results is quite stark between those levels.

Because you had plonkers like Noel King incharge for so long…

[CSAD]

Oh they can be technically quite efficient, for sure, but their development is still hindered by playing a key developmental phase in a largely part-time environment. This is looking at U19s up, starting with guys who maybe aren't necessarily getting regular first-team LoI football and certainly aren't fully pro. The comparison between a fairly modest club like Molde and any LoI side (even Rovers) is quite stark.

I think your latter point is the same point I made though. Yes, other 21s players are often playing first-team football at home. We're an outlier in Europe in that we export players at 16 to a foreign academy. If they were able to stay at home and come through the ranks here - like in almost every other European country - then they'd be getting first-team LoI ball at 19-22 or so, and then moving to England for decent fees if good enough. I think our approach to those key developmental years is very lacking (and that's before you look at players going to England who come back three years later without having made it - which is the majority of them)

Tell that to Gavin Bazunu.

[CSAD]

I don't disagree with that you are saying but see if from a different angle. While not necessarily currently or with the last batch of U21s, I've generally felt the U21 LOI players have been more effective than their (technically better) UK based counterparts simply because they are playing first-team football (would point to the UCD chap Kerrigan who played against Luxembourg - thought he made quite a strong impact (on his debut?)). The UK based players selected at U21 are not always first team footballers and if they are, they are on the radar of a senior call-up. If we are wondering why there is a drop in ranking from U17/U19 to U21 level, it is as much down to our technically better players not getting first team football in the UK, when our peers playing in other leagues are, as domestic structure failings.

There is a drop at u21 level are down to the fact that you had Noel King incharge for so long…

[pineapple stu]

Tell that to Gavin Bazunu.
Yeah, taking one datum point doesn't really prove or disprove the macro-level point.

[Poor Student]

Campaigns are longer, so results turn around slower. We've only had one campaign since Noel King left and it went a little pear shaped at the end. If you look at the current eligible squad, you could have a team of:

Bazunu

O'Connor
Omobamidele
Collins
Bagan

Coventry
Kilkenny

Knight
Parrott
Connolly

Idah

That's a team that would win the group.

Compared to other teams in our u21 group, total eligible players in the senior squad in this window:

Ireland 7
Luxembourg 6
Italy 2
Bosnia 1
Montenegro 0
Sweden 0

For a wider sample, let's also look at our Senior group:

Ireland 7
Luxembourg 6
Azerbaijan 2
Serbia 2
Portugal 1



That's a useful analysis. Answers my question about us cannibalising (for want of a better term) our U21s more than others due to lack of current depth. It'll be interesting to see if there's a greater convergence of performances and coefficients going forward once the senior squad stabilises.

[JR89]

That's a useful analysis. Answers my question about us cannibalising (for want of a better term) our U21s more than others due to lack of current depth. It'll be interesting to see if there's a greater convergence of performances and coefficients going forward once the senior squad stabilises.

Yeah I can't see the 2002 crop of U21s being affected like the 2000 crop. The lads who'll be overage after this campaign will hopefully start replacing lads who'll be phased out of the seniors over the next couple of years and we've already got the three best 2002 age group players in the seniors already with Bazunu, Omobamidele, and Parrott.

[geysir]

Oh they can be technically quite efficient, for sure, but their development is still hindered by playing a key developmental phase in a largely part-time environment. This is looking at U19s up, starting with guys who maybe aren't necessarily getting regular first-team LoI football and certainly aren't fully pro. The comparison between a fairly modest club like Molde and any LoI side (even Rovers) is quite stark.

I think your latter point is the same point I made though. Yes, other 21s players are often playing first-team football at home. We're an outlier in Europe in that we export players at 16 to a foreign academy. If they were able to stay at home and come through the ranks here - like in almost every other European country - then they'd be getting first-team LoI ball at 19-22 or so, and then moving to England for decent fees if good enough. I think our approach to those key developmental years is very lacking (and that's before you look at players going to England who come back three years later without having made it - which is the majority of them)

I'd more go with this post and your earlier one on the matter, you do have the potential to make good points on occasion:). The promotion of the best underage talent to the senior squad this term just exposes other shortcomings.
The Iceland senior squad in transition contains 8 u21 players (when fit), yet the u21 team have maintained a similar level of competitiveness in this campaign. Whilst the most talented Icelandic youngsters are most always cherrypicked mid teens, the majority don't go abroad until aged 19/20/21, after they've played a season or two at senior level, finished their 2nd level education and have already been capped at all underage levels. From the players perspective, a competent level of maturity, attitude and football ability has been learned, so if things don't work out with their first club they'll find another club readily who can use them.
However, the Faroese senior squad has no u21 eligible player, they currently have a policy of using the best youngsters for the u21 squad. This has had the effect of maintaining a good level of competitiveness against vastly bigger federations at the u21 grade and probably develops a better 'mentalitee'. Different strokes for different folk.
The smaller federations who have invested wisely in home grown professional standard coaches and coaching infrastucture have gained the most benefit from that UEFA/FIFA TV income/grants etc which is distributed equally to each federation. The FAI is about 15 years (or more) behind.

[Olé Olé]

Squad announced for Italy and Sweden: https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/crawford-names-squad-for-italysweden-qualifiers?fbclid=IwAR0rzgZ6FGfj3j786ptJd9mNXgAXNK NwAbZGqivDUtRaGX7uyWVZbNYGaqA

Armstrong Oko-Flex strong form for West Ham under 23s rewarded. Interesting to see Andrew Moran isn't in there but Evan Ferguson is. Johansson back from 19's to 21's. Festy Ebosele and Will Smallbone return from injury. Gavin Kilkenny remains with the 21's.

Anything else of note?

[Diggs246]

Squad announced for Italy and Sweden: https://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/crawford-names-squad-for-italysweden-qualifiers?fbclid=IwAR0rzgZ6FGfj3j786ptJd9mNXgAXNK NwAbZGqivDUtRaGX7uyWVZbNYGaqA

Armstrong Oko-Flex strong form for West Ham under 23s rewarded. Interesting to see Andrew Moran isn't in there but Evan Ferguson is. Johansson back from 19's to 21's. Festy Ebosele and Will Smallbone return from injury. Gavin Kilkenny remains with the 21's.

Anything else of note?

All the keepers are Irish based lads, are they picked because they are playing week in week out? or is there no one of note across the water

[tetsujin1979]

I read recently that Conor Gallagher is no longer eligible for any country, other than England, because he played for England in a competitive U21 game after his 21st birthday.
If that's correct, does that mean that Conor Coventry, who turned 21 in March, is now tied to us, and Will Smallbone (21 since February) will be too if he plays against either Italy or Sweden?

[ColourfulPeanut]

Dan Rose probably would be there but he's going to be the U19s #1, so no point warming the bench at 21s level. We're in a weird spot too that our best U21 keeper starts for our senior team, so there's that!

Good to see Oko-Flex there. Would love for to kick on and get a senior appearance at West Ham soon.