Possible Celtic/Shamrock Rovers deal.

[ToberonaTornado]

as per story in photos;

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwCAwGMWkAE2M8w.jpg:largehttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwCAwqNX4AAjlfd.jpg:large

[Nesta99]

Is this a Waterford Whispers report? What about the fan owned model, Ray Wilson named as the 'the major shareholder', members have will be able to block this right? If wilson sells his 50% now then what about the buy back option on Roadstone? We've had Home Farm Everton, will there be a Shamrock Rovers Celtic? Celtic getting first dibs on Rovers youths and them sending players on loan to Tallaght for first team experience....this UK type link up has has never been tried before in Loi like!

Seriously TT this is a p!ss take yeah!? No link;)

[ToberonaTornado]

Seriously TT this is a p!ss take yeah!? No link;)

https://twitter.com/irishdailymail/status/1080961325327634432 :rolleyes:

[Longfordian]

Are they not the same club already?

[Nesta99]

https://twitter.com/irishdailymail/status/1080961325327634432 :rolleyes:

Can you blame me for thinkinG its wind up with Rovers fans so adamant that Wilson will happily hand over his 50%, if he gets offered more than the repayment of the loan there's a bit of a quandry.

One thing is that Tallaght could be packed for every SR Celtic FC home game as they could stick Celtic IX playing and they Celtic heads would be out in their droves.....

[sbgawa]

I would'nt put a lot of faith in it.
For a start Celtic can't buy Rovers unless either they or Rovers decide not to compete in UEFA competitions.
The links between the clubs are strong hence the friendlies etc.
regarding the members model , its been repeated ad nauseam here before that Ray Wilsons shares are held only against his interest free loan and can't be sold.
Any share sale would have to be approved by members to anyone Celtic, Peak7, JP McManus etc

I do like the idea of getting a few loan players in if that part was true

[seand]

I would'nt put a lot of faith in it.
For a start Celtic can't buy Rovers unless either they or Rovers decide not to compete in UEFA competitions.


Don't think that's an issue... Red Bull Salzburg and Leipzig made the EL semis in the same season in the last couple of years

[Nailor]

Don't think that's an issue... Red Bull Salzburg and Leipzig made the EL semis in the same season in the last couple of years

They're both owned by the same Company, not one club owning the other, so slightly different there.

[sidewayspasser]

From Article 5 of the Champions League regulations (https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/55/82/79/2558279_DOWNLOAD.pdf):

Article 5 Integrity of the competition
5.01
To ensure the integrity of the UEFA club competitions, the following criteria apply:
a. No club participating in a UEFA club competition (i.e. UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League) may, either directly or indirectly:
i. hold or deal in the securities or shares of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
ii. be a member of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
iii. be involved in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition; or
iv. have any power whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition.
In short words: No club participating in Europe may have a stake in another, even if it's not a controlling stake.

[Longfordian]

The argument as I recall was that Red Bull were just sponsors, which was nonsense but convenient for UEFA. I’m sure Celtic could just enter into some sort of partnership without officially owning a stake in the club.

[Nailor]

As sbgawa already stated, no shares can be sold by Ray Wilson as they are only held against a loan which has a 10 year life span.

An Academy link-up would seem the most likely possible story here, no Celtic takeover as has been muted.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Replace Celtic with West Ham and we had the exact same rumour a few years ago and there was nothing to it.
What has probably happened is because of the numerous links between the clubs Celtic have approached Rovers about a potential official affiliation but that doesn't sound as good for headlines so it was bumped up to them making a bid for the club itself.

[marinobohs]

Replace Celtic with West Ham and we had the exact same rumour a few years ago and there was nothing to it.
What has probably happened is because of the numerous links between the clubs Celtic have approached Rovers about a potential official affiliation but that doesn't sound as good for headlines so it was bumped up to them making a bid for the club itself.

A preseason friendly and copying their strip now constitutes 'numerous links' :D who knew ?
These type of arrangement rarely do well, Home farm / Everton anyone ? I recall Man Utd had some similar arrangement with Shel's based at PSSRC all weather pitch in Santry. Presumably a tax write off for Celtic and a chance to scout young Irish players and shams get to pretend they have 'numerous links' ;)

[Ezeikial]

A preseason friendly and copying their strip now constitutes 'numerous links' :

Don't forget Damien Duff is another link along with thousands of fans who share allegiance.

Philip Quinn stretching his imagination in the first place, me thinks

[seand]

A preseason friendly and copying their strip now constitutes 'numerous links' :D who knew ?


Point of order marinobohs, Rovers nicked their green n white hoops from Belfast Celtic, not Glasgow Celtic!

[Scrufil]

Are Rogers and Bradley interchangeable? I think they both are spoofers of the highest degree.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

A preseason friendly and copying their strip now constitutes 'numerous links' :D who knew ?
These type of arrangement rarely do well, Home farm / Everton anyone ? I recall Man Utd had some similar arrangement with Shel's based at PSSRC all weather pitch in Santry. Presumably a tax write off for Celtic and a chance to scout young Irish players and shams get to pretend they have 'numerous links' ;)

Same kit sponsor, numerous friendlies, both managers get on well, Duff, then there's all the obvious ones. These rarely work out well do they? With insights like that surely you should be telling all the biggest clubs in the world that considering they're all throwing away their money then considering they all have these sorts of deals, clueless.

[sbgawa]

ouch ouch ouch
This off season better end soon and give us something to talk about :)

[Charlie Darwin]

Point of order marinobohs, Rovers nicked their green n white hoops from Belfast Celtic, not Glasgow Celtic!
So did Glasgow Celtic, to be fair. We'd all be wearing papal yellow and white were it not for Belfast Celtic.

[Martinho II]

A preseason friendly and copying their strip now constitutes 'numerous links' :D who knew ?
These type of arrangement rarely do well, Home farm / Everton anyone ? I recall Man Utd had some similar arrangement with Shel's based at PSSRC all weather pitch in Santry. Presumably a tax write off for Celtic and a chance to scout young Irish players and shams get to pretend they have 'numerous links' ;)

bought a book other day released 20 yrs ago on history of home farm! have a proper understanding of the arrangement when Everton had the arrangement with Home Farm they changed their jerseys and set up separate company for the loi only the rest of the club went back to LSL and junior football and was known as Home Farm.

didnt know until reading the book fully that when Everton withdrew their interest in Home Farm that club was renamed Home Farm Fingal and stayed in the league of ireland and was a breakaway from the original Home Farm who stayed in the LSL.

also didnt know that Home Farm Fingal became Dublin City until 2006.

I doubt that Shamrock Rovers will go this way cos of Ray Wilson shareholding is set up!

[Martinho II]

Are Rogers and Bradley interchangeable? I think they both are spoofers of the highest degree.

true Scrufil! was listening to off the ball am earlier and from what I listened to Brendan Rodgers has high regard for Stephen Bradley and vice versa. they were discussing about Philip Quinns article earlier.

[Poor Student]

I wouldn't say Rovers have a lot to fear from this were it true. Celtic are a very conservatively run club, have enormous cash reserves of £30m+ and have a very strong recent record on youth development (Kieran Tierney, Callum McGregor & James Forrest all first XI picks). Most SPFL teams also contain Celtic players who never made the grade. There would be no harm in having access to Celtic's resources. Rovers are set up to develop youth and export it to the UK in any event.

[marinobohs]

Same kit sponsor, numerous friendlies, both managers get on well, Duff, then there's all the obvious ones. These rarely work out well do they? With insights like that surely you should be telling all the biggest clubs in the world that considering they're all throwing away their money then considering they all have these sorts of deals, clueless.

Same kit sponsor ? FFS surely you have more than that ? Managers get on well ? Jesus wept. I "Get on well" with some sham fans, doubt it's a basis for a strategic alliance 😁
I mentioned LOI, with Home Farm and Shels as examples feel free to quote LOI examples that worked or quit bull****ting.
"All the obvious ones" 😁😁😁😁😁😁 hilarious, that would be a friendly and copying their strip so 😁

[ToberonaTornado]

At the bottom of an Indo article on Gavin Bazunu yesterday >>> this;


.......Meanwhile, Rovers sources have played down talk of any link-up between the Tallaght side and Celtic.
Reports indicated that the Scottish giants were looking to take a stake in Rovers but no such arrangement is expected to come to fruition.


https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/irish-youngster-gavin-bazunu-set-to-begin-manchester-city-journey-ahead-of-schedule-37701358.html

[Charlie Darwin]

Same as what Emmet Malone said a few days ago. The only way they could take a stake is if the members voted for it.

[CuanaD]

From Article 5 of the Champions League regulations (https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/55/82/79/2558279_DOWNLOAD.pdf):

In short words: No club participating in Europe may have a stake in another, even if it's not a controlling stake.
Bump - obviously a silly season article when UEFA's rules are so clear

[Ezeikial]

Media reports on the Dermot Desmond investment speculation


Shamrock Rovers close to major investment deal with Desmond

Billionaire businessman believed to be ready to invest up to €3m in Dublin club


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/shamrock-rovers-close-to-major-investment-deal-with-desmond-1.3810317


Report: Celtic Owner Set For Major Shamrock Rovers Investment



https://www.balls.ie/football/shamrock-rovers-celtic-investment-406613



Shamrock Rovers close to securing €3 million investment from Dermot Desmond - report

The Dublin club's board and Sydney-based Dubliner Ray Wilson will need to give the deal the green light


https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/shamrock-rovers-close-securing-3-14071173

[Longfordian]

The obvious question is what’s in it for Desmond? Nobody invests €3m without getting something in return, even if that something is simply power of some degree.

[Martinho II]

The obvious question is what’s in it for Desmond? Nobody invests €3m without getting something in return, even if that something is simply power of some degree.

i imagine shamrock rovers would be a tapping point for celtic players who cant get into the first team panel and vice versa. it will be like what man city are at buying different clubs around the world!

[sbgawa]

As long as we don't lose control of the club happy days.
Would Desmond invest that type of money without control.?

[Nesta99]

As long as we don't lose control of the club happy days.
Would Desmond invest that type of money without control.?

I fear that goes with the territory!! Who would invest a significant amount of money not to take the major stake. So Wilson sells up, dilutes his stake or the fans have a big decision to make. This at face value indicates that the fans' ownership is not seen as a particular obstacle "The Dublin club's board and Sydney-based Dubliner Ray Wilson will need to give the deal the green light". Unless the board is seen as respresentitive of the members? They will be the biggest hurdle to overcome so a bit surprising it isnt mentioned more. Any real investment comes with baggage that fans dont like especially if there is significant pride in the fact that fans own the club. Interesting times!

[marinobohs]

I fear that goes with the territory!! Who would invest a significant amount of money not to take the major stake. So Wilson sells up, dilutes his stake or the fans have a big decision to make. This at face value indicates that the fans' ownership is not seen as a particular obstacle "The Dublin club's board and Sydney-based Dubliner Ray Wilson will need to give the deal the green light". Unless the board is seen as respresentitive of the members? They will be the biggest hurdle to overcome so a bit surprising it isnt mentioned more. Any real investment comes with baggage that fans dont like especially if there is significant pride in the fact that fans own the club. Interesting times!
Wilson got 50% for 1.5 million so hardly likely Desmond would fork out 3 million for less. That type of investment could stabilise shams for the next decade (if they don't **** it away). Would be interesting to see if investment is in shams or the player development side.
Certainly good to see someone of his stature consider investing in the League.

[Dalymountrower]

Man with pantomime waxed moustache enters stage right.What could go wrong?

[Nesta99]

Man with pantomime waxed moustache enters stage right.What could go wrong?

Sure nothing can wrong its only Bohs who f**k everything up ye know!!

[sbgawa]

Wilson doesn't have 50 % For 1.5million.
He has a lien against the shares until his loan is paid back. If the club pay him back via Dermot Desmond or whoever he is gone

[SkStu]

So 1.5m of the 3m goes to Wilson? And then Wilson is gone and Desmond holds a lien against 50% of the club? Or does Wilson stay? And in that case what does DD get out of the deal? Does he also hold a lien and dilute Wilson’s 50% to 33%? I know I’m oversimplifying but trying to underatand how this might work... im a bit simple. As someone above says, it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Charlie Darwin]

I fear that goes with the territory!! Who would invest a significant amount of money not to take the major stake. So Wilson sells up, dilutes his stake or the fans have a big decision to make. This at face value indicates that the fans' ownership is not seen as a particular obstacle "The Dublin club's board and Sydney-based Dubliner Ray Wilson will need to give the deal the green light". Unless the board is seen as respresentitive of the members? They will be the biggest hurdle to overcome so a bit surprising it isnt mentioned more. Any real investment comes with baggage that fans dont like especially if there is significant pride in the fact that fans own the club. Interesting times!
Ray can't sell his stake because it's contractually bound up in the loan which, assuming it's repaid, will see 25% returned to the members. He could presumably sell his other 25% but Desmond would hardly pay €3 million for that so it would have to be voted by the members.

[Charlie Darwin]

So 1.5m of the 3m goes to Wilson? And then Wilson is gone and Desmond holds a lien against 50% of the club? Or does Wilson stay? And in that case what does DD get out of the deal? Does he also hold a lien and dilute Wilson’s 50% to 33%? I know I’m oversimplifying but trying to underatand how this might work... im a bit simple. As someone above says, it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Ray's share of the club has always been diluted by membership contributions. He had 25% originally when the club was taken over and that was diluted to, I think, around 7% by the time the loan was issued a couple of years back. Basically, the more the members paid in, the more shares were issued so the members held a greater share, so the money didn't go to Ray. I presume that's also the way his current shareholding works outside of the 25% that is ringfenced for the loan. I don't know Ray but I can't imagine he wants to leave as a shareholder either.

[Nesta99]

If Desmond came forward with a reasonable offer would the membership sell up, Or what would it take for the membership to sell? Is it absolutely no deal on a complete takeover or could Rovers fans cope with say 20% ownership? There were supposedly first option buy back for the previous owners as clauses in the Dundalk takeover if the club ever went up for sale again though obviously nobody knows if thats true for sure. Would such an arrangement turn heads at Tallaght. Also is there an impact on the lease agreement or do SDCC get some say? technically if they had a question mark over a new owner, for example, if there was a tax compliance issue, could they pull the plug on the lease. The value of the club must include the access to Tallaght Stadium in some way. Obviously I doubt this would be an actual issue I'm just curious on that tbh. Lots of questions for which there are likely few answers until things run their course. Would Wilson as such a ardent fan play ball even as it was suggested that his interests in the club go beyond his investment is another thing - he was present as being almost philantropic with the money he provided to Rovers.

I dont think 3 million would be significant enough money for fans to be willing to dilute ownership, 10 million might!? Its going to be very different either way than a loan scheme where shares were a type of collateral on the loans' timely repayment. On that does Wilson own those shares until the loan is payed back or is it that he would get those if the loan wasnt paid back on time? The difference is important in the decision making currently wouldnt it? I was skeptical on his motivations at the time especially when he added his own people to the board which would mean that what he said would go in the day to day running of the club at least. He then could have influenced things to how loan payments were going if he wanted to gain his % ownership. Over time and talking to Rovers fans I became less cynical so hence why i'm probably less cynical on this new development tbh.

We are a funny bunch in LoI circles, we all were screaming for serious outside investment for decades, no land grab jobs, or guys who didnt pay anything owed and blagged their way wheeling and dealing - just one person or company to take a proper punt on the league as there is potential and if it happened the floodgates would open for other clubs. We spoke about how it was an easy route to Europe and minimal money would go a long way compared to taking over a 4th tier Scottish or English League club and spend gazillions trying to oust the established order there. We sought the holy grail of European groups stages as it would set a club up indefinitely. Now we pour scorn on potential investment lol and some even rub their hands together waiting for investors to screw a club over, scoff at the prospect of fan ownership models being changed. Point the finger on how group stage money has been spent. Additional outside interest is met with skeptisim at best or putting pride in an ownership model before what could be an additional game changer imo (even with just the name of this particular investor getting involved in the game here and turning heads domestically - it would seriously upset GAA circles). Always looking for ulterior motives - Power having Waterford as a Swindon B team, Dundalk being bled of cash reserves and Peak6 will walk away any day, Desmond looking to get involved but he has to be trying to tie up young players for Celtic. The only motivation of them all is obviously to make more than they spend on their initial outlay and so far in the current era things havent been so shabby on the impact of new owners coming in to the league. Interest has grown as we had once hoped for but no we still are not that pleased about our niche not being so niche anymore lol

If Cork fans were offered investment like that that Dermot Desmond could give would it be a flat sling your hook after the Arkaga experience, even if it meant that taking some risk would kick on the club beyond what fans could do alone financially?

No one (unless they are fools) wants to see clubs in trouble but at the same time there are few that would want rival clubs making a success of real financial injection for obvious reasons. But this is all the type of scenario we wished for and Peak6 arguably broke ground and others are checking out to see what can be gained. Its got to a better situation than worse!!? Certainly this kind of interest would lead to a seachange in the credibility or perception of the league with the sporting public!?

[Nesta99]

Ray can't sell his stake because it's contractually bound up in the loan which, assuming it's repaid, will see 25% returned to the members. He could presumably sell his other 25% but Desmond would hardly pay €3 million for that so it would have to be voted by the members.

Wait so there was a takeover to some extent. The 50% or whatever wasnt totally based on the loan and would be returned when it was paid. Wilson bought out a 25% stake and could keep it unless he sold on those shares eg back to the members? That's varies quite a bit to what some have argued to be the arrangement on here in the past and quite adamantly too - that when the loan was repayed the club would remain or return to a fully fan owned club!!?

[Charlie Darwin]

Wait so there was a takeover to some extent. The 50% or whatever wasnt totally based on the loan and would be returned when it was paid. Wilson bought out a 25% stake and could keep it unless he sold on those shares eg back to the members? That's varies quite a bit to what some have argued to be the arrangement on here in the past and quite adamantly too - that when the loan was repayed the club would remain or return to a fully fan owned club!!?
The terms are what was reported at the time. The loan brought his shareholding to 50%, half of which will be returned when the loan is repaid. The rest, I can only presume as I'm not privvy to he details, will act the same way his original shareholding and dilute over time. I don't think any of this was a secret.

[Nesta99]

I'm not saying it was a secret, just that I though that it was a 50/50 split rather than what is/will be a 75/25. That makes it clearer for me in terms of Rovers fans not being concerned with having 1 person able to veto the members which obviously wouldnt be the case with a 75/25 agreement. I'm on nights at work and its quiet so why Im up in the middle of the night whats your excuse Charlie lol;)

[sbgawa]

When the loan is paid back he go's to 25% straight away and is diluted to zero over time by members , s same as last time.
I'd be in favour of a guy like Desmond coming in but only if the members keep control of the board/club.

[Ezeikial]

This could be a great opportunity for Rovers to become Dublins number one club or even become one of the top three nationally

The real sport here will be watching Rovers fans lose their merde and choke over the possibility of losing control to an investor.

[marinobohs]

When the loan is paid back he go's to 25% straight away and is diluted to zero over time by members , s same as last time.
I'd be in favour of a guy like Desmond coming in but only if the members keep control of the board/club.

The question remains why would Desmond invest and what is his payback ? To be fair Wilson has invested because he is a genuine fan, that is not the case with DD. Unless DD onlygets Wilson’s shares (or options) it immediately dilutes-the share holding of the members and once you go below 50% you have lost control.
Will be interesting to see how it plays out, good to see someone of that caliber show an interest in Irish football for a change. Given shams short lived membership model I doubt they will be too aggrieved if they sell out (perhaps even a tour advising other clubs on “abandoning the fan owned model” 😁).

[placid casual]

This could be a great opportunity for Rovers to become Dublins number one club or even become one of the top three nationally

The real sport here will be watching Rovers fans lose their merde and choke over the possibility of losing control to an investor.

E for effort. Must try harder.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Anybody in anyway surprised at the poster that posted the news?

[Dalymountrower]

Yep, let's target the messenger.!!!
Clearly a positive move from a public perspective that some monied individual is "investing in LOI.If the investment involves first cheap dibs on the young talent pool from Roadstone, it would be good biz for MrD.
Every club has to survive and thrive in it's own way but am surprised that the member owned model does not seem to have been accepted as a long term model for Rovers.
2 leagues , euro qualification, shiny stadium , decent crowds, why is that not good enough?
Or is this kite flying by the media?

[ToberonaTornado]

Anybody in anyway surprised at the poster that posted the news?

Who me dear?;) I know you dont mean me.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9v85cFXzk1r5rwk1o1_500.gif

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Who me dear?;) I know you dont mean me.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9v85cFXzk1r5rwk1o1_500.gif

I wouldn't dare of it Toberona.

The scenario the independent are suggesting seems the most likely if anything does happen in that for 3 million Desmond gets 25%, Wilson gets upto 25%, and members get the rest. I'd presume Wilson would get some to all of his loan back and his 25% would slowly shrink as with his previous deal, leaving 1.5 million for investment and 1.5 for Wilson to choose to invest or not. I wouldn't be overly against this but I'd need to hear specifics before I could say I'm for it.

All that said as I said until there's a vote called as far as I'm concerned its all just rumours.