Possible Celtic/Shamrock Rovers deal.

[Sonny]

Presumign that company law in the republic means that a 75% +1 holding gives majority control, then suely Rovers should be selling only a 24.99% share to Desmond ? Otherwise he'd have the ability to bock certain key deciisons.

Not an expert on company law by any stretch, but I think that 25% would enable Desmond to block certain special resolutions (changes to articles of association, large capital investment proposals etc) but wouldn't give any control over ordinary resolutions which dictate the day to day running and direction of the club. I don't think it's unreasonable to receive minority shareholder protections in exchange for the level of investment they are talking about. Again, I just don't see the risk there.

[Sonny]

I'd say it's probably naïve to believe this though ?

Celtic themselves can't buy shares in Rovers, without being ineligible for Europe. If only there was someone very closely associated with Celtic who could help them get round that by buying a share in Rovers under his own name...

The board of Rovers have explicitly told members that there is no provision in this deal for Celtic to have preferential options on academy players or transfers of senior players. So again, the only way that is possible would be for the board of Rovers, and Ray Wilson, to be openly lying to members about the terms of a deal they are asking them to vote on. That scenario is ridiculous.

[marinobohs]

Will there be another tour advising other clubs on “fan owned model” ? 🤣😂🤣😂

[marinobohs]

The board of Rovers have explicitly told members that there is no provision in this deal for Celtic to have preferential options on academy players or transfers of senior players. So again, the only way that is possible would be for the board of Rovers, and Ray Wilson, to be openly lying to members about the terms of a deal they are asking them to vote on. That scenario is ridiculous.

Whereas one of the coldest businessmen in Ireland suddenly developing an interest in SRFC and showering them with money for no gain is not ridiculous ?
I don’t know DD “angle” on this but not for one second do I believe there isn’t one.

[nigel-harps1954]

Honestly, looking in from the outside, one can only help but feel a bit jealous.

A multi-million euro investment into a club is huge here. If they're smart with their money, it's exactly the push they need to attract more high quality names, and hold on to their bigger names going into next season.

The biggest question for Rovers going forward is whether or not Bradley is the right manager to make the next step with them, and push them towards a league title and European group stages. This is obviously the aim for the likes of Desmond in getting involved with the club.

If there's some major spend by the club in the off-season, it might push Dundalk to do the same. The two could cut even further adrift at the top of the table.

As for Desmonds interests, of course he's looking for financial gain, saying anything else is ridiculous.

[Sonny]

Whereas one of the coldest businessmen in Ireland suddenly developing an interest in SRFC and showering them with money for no gain is not ridiculous ?
I don’t know DD “angle” on this but not for one second do I believe there isn’t one.

Again, all that actually matters is the level of risk from Rovers perspective.

There are two real possibilities:

1) He statements regarding his reasons for investing and his claims that he will re-invest any returns back into the club are true, in which case it is a dream scenario with no downside.
2) His statement is only partially true and he is getting involved anticipating some financial return down the line.

Regardless of which one is the case, it still seems a complete no-brainer for Rovers. The only way he would generate any sort of return would be through massive growth of the business and success of the football club. That's a win-win. As I said, I think people are completely right to be skeptical of his intentions, but with the members and Ray Wilson retaining majority control the decision still makes itself.

[marinobohs]

Again, all that actually matters is the level of risk from Rovers perspective.

There are two real possibilities:

1) He statements regarding his reasons for investing and his claims that he will re-invest any returns back into the club are true, in which case it is a dream scenario with no downside.
2) His statement is only partially true and he is getting involved anticipating some financial return down the line.

Regardless of which one is the case, it still seems a complete no-brainer for Rovers. The only way he would generate any sort of return would be through massive growth of the business and success of the football club. That's a win-win. As I said, I think people are completely right to be skeptical of his intentions, but with the members and Ray Wilson retaining majority control the decision still makes itself.
So all that “fan owned” nonsense gets dumped the first time someone offers a few bob ? Didn’t take long.

[disgruntled]

Whereas one of the coldest businessmen in Ireland suddenly developing an interest in SRFC and showering them with money for no gain is not ridiculous ?
I don’t know DD “angle” on this but not for one second do I believe there isn’t one.

Of course there's a risk here.
People like Desmond have lots of money because they don't give without getting back on their investments. That's why they have money. I would suggest that DD is thinking of only one person here & it isn't anyone at Rovers.
I can see the attraction here for Rovers fans.
Untimitly it will be a decision for the Rovers member but I would urge caution.

[Stuttgart88]

The key here though is that Rovers don’t have any real assets to sell, so there’s no possibility of a big asset strip like in the 80s.

I think the downside to Rovers is very limited, the upside is bigger.

Like it or not, almost every successful football club relies on benefactors. The real shame in Ireland is that our own super-rich have always favoured UK clubs or the racing industry for any philanthropy.

[Ezeikial]

It's at times like this that I yearn for Rathfarnham Hoop's unique perspective

[marinobohs]

It's at times like this that I yearn for Rathfarnham Hoop's unique perspective
Possibly waiting on the AGM ?

Good luck to shams and great news for players they are thinking of signing (the Hobinator will need protection from all the kitchen sinks that will be thrown at him ).

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 2 million (figure bandied about ) could certainly improve the playing staff but it’s a one off so increased revenue would have to be generated to future fund it (recurring wages). Maybe see a Shels/Bohs circa 2000 wage war between shams and Dundalk. Sure what could go wrong 😁

[Sonny]

So all that “fan owned” nonsense gets dumped the first time someone offers a few bob ? Didn’t take long.

Bohs fans keep wheeling out this line as if it's some big gotcha! :D

How do you know it's the first time someone has approached the club to buy in? Regardless, any model of ownership is a means to an end not an end in itself. I would be seriously unhappy if Rovers would dismiss an opportunity to progress the club purely out of some dogmatic commitment to being 100% member owned (which has never been the case anyway as Ray Wilson has privately owned shares since the club exited examinership). I would be equally as unhappy to see outsiders take up a controlling interest in the club based upon past experience. German style hybrid ownership seems a perfectly reasonable way forward to me.

[osarusan]

How could Desmond realistically make any money from the club?

The only way I can think of would be to siphon off future European prize money, which can add up pretty quickly if a team manages to pick up points in the group stages. And that would only happen if he got enough control over the club to have the power to do so.

But even then, Dundalk got what, 7 million in prize money, for the best European campaign in LOI hsitory? I'm not trying to play down that amount, but Desmond is a billionaire, and I'd imagine he has much bigger fish to fry.

I'm fairly skeptical of the idea that there is much philanthropy involved from a guy with no history of interest in LOI, but I can't see how he stands to make significant money (significant for him anyway) out of it.

[EatYerGreens]

How could Desmond realistically make any money from the club?

The only way I can think of would be to siphon off future European prize money, which can add up pretty quickly if a team manages to pick up points in the group stages. And that would only happen if he got enough control over the club to have the power to do so.

But even then, Dundalk got what, 7 million in prize money, for the best European campaign in LOI hsitory? I'm not trying to play down that amount, but Desmond is a billionaire, and I'd imagine he has much bigger fish to fry.

I'm fairly skeptical of the idea that there is much philanthropy involved from a guy with no history of interest in LOI, but I can't see how he stands to make significant money (significant for him anyway) out of it.

A very simple way he could make money would be if the club's value increases. His 25% share would therefore increase too.

Presumably he is working on the assumption that Rovers could make progress in Europe, so the value of his shareholding would increase. He may also expect some form of dividend too ?

The downside in this for Rovers is that Desmond could sell his shares at any time to whoever he wanted. And it's the size of shareholding that can block major decisions. The fans will get to decide if DD buys this 25% share, but they will have no say at all in who ends up owning those shares in future (and what their motivations are). If I was them I'd sell them with the caveat that they have first option to buy them back when he eventually does sell them.

[sbgawa]

That is the deal EYG. Shares have to be offered to existing shareholders before anyone else.
I'm always sceptical about philanthropy but there are examples in Ireland, Denis o brien gave millions to the fai which allowed them **** there own money away (pity he didn't insist on a seat on the board and oversee how they spent their money ), jp McManus has given away millions in limerick so DD investing pocket change for him in rovers and getting involved at board level and as a minority shareholder doesn't have to be a part of a big conspriciy.
Eyes wide open obviously but hard to see how he make a a killing in rovers.

[Nesta99]

For years we have been looking at the likes of Desmond and McManus and wondering why they wouldnt take a punt on investing in LoI. Peak6 broke something of a mould and now that there are serious people showing interest in investment we are looking very insular and skeptical about the prospect. Yes things havent worked with Arkaga at Cork, other clubs' investors have left things high and dry but none of them had the deep pokects that these people have.

For me Desmond's involvement in Rovers (coupled with Wilson) is a pretty frightening prospect in terms of potential financial clout is a worry to other clubs. I'm sure Peak6 are quietly concerned too especially with next season's change to European competition and how it is likely to be the most important title race in league history considering what could be on offer.

Maybe DD sees how things are going with the relative lack of 1st team opportunities for Irish players in England and realises, like we have for an age, that the future fortunes of our international teams will rely more and more on a stronger domestic league!

A lot of the negative comments Ive read on this potential investment imo is born out of fear and maybe even jealousy. We can expect a bit of a bandwagon of very wealthy people looking to LoI as their play thing without having to worry about any more than a weeks interest on part of their worth - maybe we should throw off the shackles that Arkaga caused. It is a hybrid ownership this is pretty ideal and something that Cork should be looking at too never mind all clubs.

[Real ale Madrid]

A lot of the negative comments Ive read on this potential investment imo is born out of fear and maybe even jealousy. We can expect a bit of a bandwagon of very wealthy people looking to LoI as their play thing without having to worry about any more than a weeks interest on part of their worth - maybe we should throw off the shackles that Arkaga caused. It is a hybrid ownership this is pretty ideal and something that Cork should be looking at too never mind all clubs.

Bourne out of experience I would have thought.

Look - there is no money in LOI football. That is just a cold hard fact. If DD wants to invest then great. But proceed with Caution is probably what most would advocate.

[Ezeikial]

A lot of the negative comments Ive read on this potential investment imo is born out of fear and maybe even jealousy.


Bourne out of experience I would have thought.

Look - there is no money in LOI football. That is just a cold hard fact. If DD wants to invest then great. But proceed with Caution is probably what most would advocate.

I believe that there is little doubt that a lot, maybe even most, of the negative comments are rooted in fear or jealousy.

The primary poor experience has been around Arkaga and the compounded experience that followed with Tom Coughlan. It's perfectly understandable that Cork folk would be especially cautious as a result. That resistance to any type of outside investment will change too if the current disparity between Cork and the top two is maintained or grows even wider.

The potential returns - if they actually exist - are obviously not in the €110k current prize money, but lie elsewhere. Proceeding with caution is a sound approach, but dismissing it out of hand would be foolish

[Nesta99]

Bourne out of experience I would have thought.

Look - there is no money in LOI football. That is just a cold hard fact. If DD wants to invest then great. But proceed with Caution is probably what most would advocate.

I'd never suggest blindly taking on board new investment! But at the same time we cannot always hold back on the basis of bad experience - there isnt a club in the land that hasnt had bad experences of owners/investors. Any 'investment' is what it is, people with money trying to make a return. It doesnt mean that clubs and supporters wont reap benefits in the process also. Basically we have all hoped for proper investment in clubs, its is potentially happening. We could be looking at significant change in the domestic football landscape and with DD showing interest its likely to pique the interest of others, something that we have been shouting from the roof tops about for decades. Now, as we could well be on the brink of domestic football changing, there are people going nope, not good! Maybe it will come crashing down but at least we will know and not be living in hope forever of some serious reform and investment.

[Dalymountrower]

Good luck to shams and great news for players they are thinking of signing (the Hobinator will need protection from all the kitchen sinks that will be thrown at him ).

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 2 million (figure bandied about ) could certainly improve the playing staff but it’s a one off so increased revenue would have to be generated to future fund it (recurring wages). Maybe see a Shels/Bohs circa 2000 wage war between shams and Dundalk. Sure what could go wrong 😁
Great news for Pats though,.more cut price ex Rovers players to choose from if Kaisers Rovers use their new wealth to buy new galacticos.

[seand]

Great news for Rovers, bad news for the rest of the league. Rovers and Desmond have two ways to make money, the academy farm which is clearly working well already and has potential to do even better, and European money with Rovers pretty much guaranteed qualification for the foreseeable future unless something goes terribly wrong. Unlike the Drogs and Bohs bubbles there's no potential land grab. From what I can see the only way Desmond can make money (which is obviously the only reason for investment) is by Rovers making money

[Real ale Madrid]

That resistance to any type of outside investment will change too if the current disparity between Cork and the top two is maintained or grows even wider.


What evidence do you have that Cork City are resistant to outside investment? If the right offer came along there isn't a club in the country that wouldn't listen. Unfortunately they are not exactly banging down our door and weren't while we were winning trophies either.

Listen - I'm genuinely happy if the league is subject to outside investment. I'm all for it. But the fact remains that there is no money to be made in LOI football and investors require returns so proceed with caution. Rovers are in a good spot here with this I think. The hybrid model looks a good fit for progression. But if Rovers had a bad season - crowds would disappear and investors lose patience quickly, so long as a strong healthy supporters group remain hand in hand to pick up any pieces then risk is minimised.

[seand]

What evidence do you have that Cork City are resistant to outside investment? If the right offer came along there isn't a club in the country that wouldn't listen. Unfortunately they are not exactly banging down our door and weren't while we were winning trophies either.

Listen - I'm genuinely happy if the league is subject to outside investment. I'm all for it. But the fact remains that there is no money to be made in LOI football and investors require returns so proceed with caution. Rovers are in a good spot here with this I think. The hybrid model looks a good fit for progression. But if Rovers had a bad season - crowds would disappear and investors lose patience quickly, so long as a strong healthy supporters group remain hand in hand to pick up any pieces then risk is minimised.

Genuine question though... what happens if Rovers do have 2 or 3 bad seasons and Desmond loses interest? He sells his shares for less than he bought? It's not like he has the option of selling the ground or asset-stripping. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see a whole lot of downside here for Rovers. He's not in a position to siphon off huge chunks of profit/income (unlike, I dunno, Peak6 at Dundalk)

[placid casual]

I'm not sure what to think, if I'm 100% honest.
The money involved is not going to change things wholesale at Rovers, in my view, but it does give a degree of security for the immediate future of the club.
I also don't think this is necessarily bad news for the rest of LOI as investment into the league can have a knock on effect (provided it's not just invested in players wages!!). Desmond clearly didn't fancy investing in cork and dundalk have peak6 so who else was credible?
Pat's have kelliher and both bohs and shels have the ongoing stadium issue so not the best time at the moment for them I guess.
The Rovers board are fairly hard nosed at this stage and won't accede power of the club to any flash Harry who turns up. The memory of 20+ years of nomadic existence has not been forgotten by any means.
And now that O'Donnell is there you'd expect pat's to get dundalk cast offs instead of Rovers!

[EatYerGreens]

What evidence do you have that Cork City are resistant to outside investment? If the right offer came along there isn't a club in the country that wouldn't listen. Unfortunately they are not exactly banging down our door and weren't while we were winning trophies either.

Listen - I'm genuinely happy if the league is subject to outside investment. I'm all for it. But the fact remains that there is no money to be made in LOI football and investors require returns so proceed with caution. Rovers are in a good spot here with this I think. The hybrid model looks a good fit for progression. But if Rovers had a bad season - crowds would disappear and investors lose patience quickly, so long as a strong healthy supporters group remain hand in hand to pick up any pieces then risk is minimised.

I think there is definitely money to be made in the LOI - at one or possibly two clubs.

The route to doing it is to qualify for Europe annually and then aim to get to the money tree that is European group stages on a semi-regular basis.

The first task in that - qualifying for Europe regularly - does not take a huge sum in the LOI. The tough bit is getting through the rounds to group football - but the returns form doing so would appear to make it worthwhile to try.

So I can absolutely see how money can be made at 1 or 2 clubs in the LOI. Three clubs maybe at an absolute push - but they'd all need to be qualifying for Europe almost every year.

Same goes for every other league in Europe with very little money in it e.g. Wales, NI, Iceland, Luxembourg, Albania.

[Ezeikial]

What evidence do you have that Cork City are resistant to outside investment? If the right offer came along there isn't a club in the country that wouldn't listen. Unfortunately they are not exactly banging down our door and weren't while we were winning trophies either.

None as regards Cork City & FORAS, but my comment related to Cork folk being especially cautious as a result of the Arkaga experience and how supporters resistance may soften further as the reality of the current disparity becomes more obvious.






Listen - I'm genuinely happy if the league is subject to outside investment. I'm all for it. But the fact remains that there is no money to be made in LOI football and investors require returns so proceed with caution. Rovers are in a good spot here with this I think. The hybrid model looks a good fit for progression. But if Rovers had a bad season - crowds would disappear and investors lose patience quickly, so long as a strong healthy supporters group remain hand in hand to pick up any pieces then risk is minimised.

Of course investors want a Return On Investment, that's what sets them apart from benefactors.

[Real ale Madrid]

Genuine question though... what happens if Rovers do have 2 or 3 bad seasons and Desmond loses interest? He sells his shares for less than he bought? It's not like he has the option of selling the ground or asset-stripping. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see a whole lot of downside here for Rovers. He's not in a position to siphon off huge chunks of profit/income (unlike, I dunno, Peak6 at Dundalk)

So long as Rovers (or any club) make long term commitments to players and staff that are sustainable post investment then there is no risk. But if clubs start giving long term contracts etc and investors cannot or will not follow though on commitments then the problems start. Hand in hand with a robust supporters group then the risk is mitigated. But if Peak 6 for example pull the plug in the morning on Dundalk, do Dundalk have the abilty to make good on commitments made to contracts and suppliers etc. They probably do - but that is just an example. A downturn in fortunes can turn a great business model into something unsustainable pretty quickly.

[Dalymountrower]

I'm not sure what to think, if I'm 100% honest.
The money involved is not going to change things wholesale at Rovers, in my view, but it does give a degree of security for the immediate future of the club.
I also don't think this is necessarily bad news for the rest of LOI as investment into the league can have a knock on effect (provided it's not just invested in players wages!!). Desmond clearly didn't fancy investing in cork and dundalk have peak6 so who else was credible?
Pat's have kelliher and both bohs and shels have the ongoing stadium issue so not the best time at the moment for them I guess.
The Rovers board are fairly hard nosed at this stage and won't accede power of the club to any flash Harry who turns up. The memory of 20+ years of nomadic existence has not been forgotten by any means.
And now that O'Donnell is there you'd expect pat's to get dundalk cast offs instead of Rovers!

That`s a fair enough summary. Pats are suckers for Rovers rejects though.!

Shels probably have potential for an "investor", I also think that Drogs have huge potential for a potential investor.

We were told at an info meeting last year that approaches by unnamed suitors had been made to invest in Bohs, I doubt that it was a serious proposal tbh, and wouldnt have got a hearing from the membership. Anyway, potential European qualification without investor baggage has worked out for this season anyway

[SkStu]

I have come to believe that the best ownership model in LOI circles is one that allows two main things - 1) attract & develop the best (or best of the rest) youth players and 2) give them a pathway to professional experience in return for a medium term contract. Competitive wages to attract senior players is a possible third but far less important in my opinion.

Rovers are doing it their way through a hybrid model already (Wilson was the first step, now DD) and we will ultimately see what conditions the DD investment carries and the consequences of those in relation to the above 2 elements. It is a quick path that does open the club up to some (undetermined level of) risk. I see the risk being around the youth side and whether Rovers will become just another Irish club that trafficks in young Irish players and not get what they could/should in terms of compensation. It is the potential for a different type of asset stripping.

For contrast, Bohs are, it seems, fully committed to a 100% member owned model and have made progress on both the above elements year over year. If we are fortunate enough to qualify for europe this season and reinvest the prize money wisely in 1) and 2) above (heavily in #2 would be my preference), we will further stabilize and become more competitive. It is a slower path and the risk it carries is the dependency on some level of success in order to grow.

Ultimately, both models are workable and it is up to Rovers to decide who/what they want to be when they grow up. Hopefully both models will work for both clubs, except Rovers.

[EatYerGreens]

I have come to believe that the best ownership model in LOI circles is one that allows two main things - 1) attract & develop the best (or best of the rest) youth players and 2) give them a pathway to professional experience in return for a medium term contract. Competitive wages to attract senior players is a possible third but far less important in my opinion.

This is basically the model that Derry follow. The conveyor belt of talent continually coming through at the club is genuinely impressive.

Where it falls down a bit is the length of contract though. Young players are always in a hurry to get on. Anything beyond a year feels like a lifetime at that age. And it's very difficult for clubs to stand in their way over transfer fees even if they have a longer contract.

[Ezeikial]

This is basically the model that Derry follow. The conveyor belt of talent continually coming through at the club is genuinely impressive.

Where it falls down a bit is the length of contract though. Young players are always in a hurry to get on. Anything beyond a year feels like a lifetime at that age. And it's very difficult for clubs to stand in their way over transfer fees even if they have a longer contract.

This is where the big conundrum comes. At what age should a player be tied to a medium term contract and what is the optimum length of contract? Obviously the terms have to be attractive enough for the player to sign and he must believe that he has prospects to improve his talents and profile.

There are very few 18/19 year olds who are ready for regular LOI first team football and with no competitive football after u-19's their progress can easily stagnate. Even if an 18 year old was attracted by decent money to sign a 3 year contract, the rate of attrition for promising 18 year olds is fairly high.

It really is no coincidence that the most successful LOI of recent times has had almost no players progressing from underage. On the other hand the biggest conveyor belt for young talent have consistently struggled to achieve or maintain a presence in the premier division.

[Nesta99]

This is where the big conundrum comes. At what age should a player be tied to a medium term contract and what is the optimum length of contract? Obviously the terms have to be attractive enough for the player to sign and he must believe that he has prospects to improve his talents and profile.

There are very few 18/19 year olds who are ready for regular LOI first team football and with no competitive football after u-19's their progress can easily stagnate. Even if an 18 year old was attracted by decent money to sign a 3 year contract, the rate of attrition for promising 18 year olds is fairly high.

It really is no coincidence that the most successful LOI of recent times has had almost no players progressing from underage. On the other hand the biggest conveyor belt for young talent have consistently struggled to achieve or maintain a presence in the premier division.

Shamrock Rover beware!!

[marinobohs]

This is basically the model that Derry follow. The conveyor belt of talent continually coming through at the club is genuinely impressive.

Where it falls down a bit is the length of contract though. Young players are always in a hurry to get on. Anything beyond a year feels like a lifetime at that age. And it's very difficult for clubs to stand in their way over transfer fees even if they have a longer contract.

Most players in LOI want more than one year contract. If that's the experience at Derry (players only wanting one year) you are well nigh unique. Unless the players is amateur or playing for buttons multi year contracts are sought after.

All clubs develop young players (except elite one or two that buy in the finished article).

[Nesta99]

You may be right about most players, especially those who have returned from abroad or their age profile doesnt fit a move at this stage but even at Dundalk where contracts are likely to be competative not all have signed multiple year contracts. I think Benson tends toward 1 year extensions as an example but open to correction. Younger players again are dazzled by even the most tenuous interest from England. It is quite possible that Michael Duffy signed a 3 year contract as he had players around him that could talk about the realities of moving to England - McEleney, Hoban and O'Donnell for starters. Then cite the example of Towell as a shining prospect playing in L2 now. Duffy is still young enough to move but will have that bit more under his belt if he does. Interesting about the rumours of Burnley interest in Duffy and Gannon even though Gannon is 28 which would trump the trend. Though more recent Burnley rumours of interest in a former Dundalk player a couple of years ago certainly never came to anything and the player nearly ended up clubless. This is the first season that Dundalk have in a serious way brought through players from U19s given them FT contracts and given them game time although that has been more since the league was bagged. Lot of potential and probably need to go out on loan for more game time next season especially with a fully healthy squad and any players coming in.

[Ezeikial]

Most players in LOI want more than one year contract. If that's the experience at Derry (players only wanting one year) you are well nigh unique. Unless the players is amateur or playing for buttons multi year contracts are sought after.

All clubs develop young players (except elite one or two that buy in the finished article).

At what point does a contract become financially attractive and move from the "buttons" category.

Is it €20,000?

If a club sign only 3 promising 19 year olds each year on 3 year deals they will very quickly have salary commitments of €180k per year and have a coterie of young players many of whom will not have regular competitive football. It is probably lower cost to sign the pick of these players at 21/22 when they are out of contract and more physically developed.

[Ezeikial]

You may be right about most players, especially those who have returned from abroad or their age profile doesnt fit a move at this stage but even at Dundalk where contracts are likely to be competative not all have signed multiple year contracts. I think Benson tends toward 1 year extensions as an example but open to correction. Younger players again are dazzled by even the most tenuous interest from England. It is quite possible that Michael Duffy signed a 3 year contract as he had players around him that could talk about the realities of moving to England - McEleney, Hoban and O'Donnell for starters. Then cite the example of Towell as a shining prospect playing in L2 now. Duffy is still young enough to move but will have that bit more under his belt if he does. Interesting about the rumours of Burnley interest in Duffy and Gannon even though Gannon is 28 which would trump the trend. Though more recent Burnley rumours of interest in a former Dundalk player a couple of years ago certainly never came to anything and the player nearly ended up clubless. This is the first season that Dundalk have in a serious way brought through players from U19s given them FT contracts and given them game time although that has been more since the league was bagged. Lot of potential and probably need to go out on loan for more game time next season especially with a fully healthy squad and any players coming in.



Lido Lotefa was the only one who got a first pro contract at Dundalk for 2019, when he signed in the last close season at 18 years old. Both he and Mark Hanratty made their league debuts in recent weeks, after the league was secured - hardly a strong commitment to developing u19's

[SkStu]

At what point does a contract become financially attractive and move from the "buttons" category.

Is it €20,000?

If a club sign only 3 promising 19 year olds each year on 3 year deals they will very quickly have salary commitments of €180k per year and have a coterie of young players many of whom will not have regular competitive football. It is probably lower cost to sign the pick of these players at 21/22 when they are out of contract and more physically developed.

You wont get them all right but your youth systems should be identifying these candidates from early on and there should be a pathway to them being tested in first team action as early as possible. Even still you wont get it 100% right. Bohs were forced by circumstance into something very similar and tbh it makes me cringe to think that these kids can be snapped up tomorrow for buttons because we can't/couldn't offer them a decent 2 or 3 year deal. That is slowly changing (e.g. Mandroiu got eventually signed to a 2 year deal) at Bohs but we havent fully integrated it with our youth systems yet.

But, even if you dont get it 100% right, an approach to awarding contracts to any footballers always carries a decent chunk of risk so clubs need to do as much as possible in the early years (16-19) through your youth system to pick out (and test) those that they think will make a career as a professional and/or carry potential sell-on value.

For a club like Bohs without investors, it really is the only model worth pursuing. I get that it would be different for a Dundalk - but we are not competing in the same market.

[Ezeikial]

It looks like Rovers fans have little choice but to accept the Desmond deal if they want to plug the gap in finances

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/companies/rovers-has-balance-sheet-deficits-of-2m-ahead-of-proposed-desmond-deal-1.4060682?mode=amp

[sbgawa]

Old news in every sense, club made a loss of 100k last year and 400k in the academy all of which was recouped by the sale of Bazunu for 500k which wasnt included in the accounts.
IMO it should have been shown as a receipt for the Academy which would have had the Academy making 100k and the football side losing 100k as it was a known material event post balance sheet but that is up to the club and the Auditors i guess.
The money invested in the Academy over a million is money well invested and our deficit to fund the Investment is on a non recourse loan to a member.

[pineapple stu]

Old news in every sense, club made a loss of 100k last year and 400k in the academy all of which was recouped by the sale of Bazunu for 500k which wasnt included in the accounts.
IMO it should have been shown as a receipt for the Academy which would have had the Academy making 100k and the football side losing 100k as it was a known material event post balance sheet but that is up to the club and the Auditors i guess.
You can't just make up what year a transaction should go into. Otherwise it'd be chaos trying to make sense of accounts because people will be twisting them to suit themselves.

It seems there was a note about Bazunu, and the Academy should turn a decent profit this year as a result. If he moved in 2019, it makes sense to put the transfer fee in 2019.

[Ezeikial]

Old news in every sense, club made a loss of 100k last year and 400k in the academy all of which was recouped by the sale of Bazunu for 500k which wasnt included in the accounts.
.

Accounts by definition are an historical record or old news

The combined loss of 500k is one aspect, but the 2m figure must be a concern

Accounts recently filed for Shamrock Rovers FC (SRFC) show its liabilities exceeded its assets by €1.28 million last year, while Shamrock Rovers Academy (SRA) had a deficit of €764,000.

[ashbournebohs]

Accounts by definition are an historical record or old news

The combined loss of 500k is one aspect, but the 2m figure must be a concern

Accounts recently filed for Shamrock Rovers FC (SRFC) show its liabilities exceeded its assets by €1.28 million last year, while Shamrock Rovers Academy (SRA) had a deficit of €764,000.


If they lost 100k whilst receiving 750k in transfer fees (burke and bazuna) that year what will the losses be this year without them and only undisclosed fees for bolger and clarke and with an increased wage budget

[sbgawa]

Accounts by definition are an historical record or old news

The combined loss of 500k is one aspect, but the 2m figure must be a concern

Accounts recently filed for Shamrock Rovers FC (SRFC) show its liabilities exceeded its assets by €1.28 million last year, while Shamrock Rovers Academy (SRA) had a deficit of €764,000.

No more a concern than it was this time last year when it was exactly the same (including the Bazunu money).
The deficit is covered by a non recourse loan to a member, drop up to Roadstone and look at what it has achieved.
I take your point Stu on putting money in the year you receive but when it is so material that it needs to be noted then it is possible to do a bit of mental arithmetic.
By the time these accounts were filed the money was in the bank.
Another year of big investment in the Academy gone by more pitches laid down and players maturing and developing.
I am genuinely looking forward to seeing more kids from the Acdemy make the first team.

[pineapple stu]

It may well merit a note somewhere - it certainly was in the article, for example, and it could go in as a throw-away comment in the Directors' Report for example - but it wouldn't go into the 2018 accounts.

Accounts are typically filed as much as 11 months after the year-end. You can't go making notes on everything that's happened since then, even if you restrict it to just material items.

[marinobohs]

It may well merit a note somewhere - it certainly was in the article, for example, and it could go in as a throw-away comment in the Directors' Report for example - but it wouldn't go into the 2018 accounts.

Accounts are typically filed as much as 11 months after the year-end. You can't go making notes on everything that's happened since then, even if you restrict it to just material items.

It was noted in the accounts, as mitigation of the otherwise concerning loss. I think it was because the transfer had occurred but had not been completed (possibly due to International clearance ?). As it was at least partly agreed I wouldn't see a problem in noting such a big transaction even though it could not be included in the accounts (but no expert !)

[Ezeikial]

Green light for dilution of the fans shareholding overwhelmingly approved today by members

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/1116/1091333-desmond-gets-green-light-to-take-25-stake-in-rovers/

https://www.the42.ie/shamrock-rovers-dermot-desmond-4894287-Nov2019/

[Kingswood Rover]

will this spook peak 6, now 2 horses in the race, what do dundalk fans really think about the longevity of peak 6's commitment to DFC

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Genuinely Ez seek professional help. You have a serious problem.

[wonder88]

So Shamrock R are valued at 8 million. This can be a benchmark where other LoI clubs can be valued by, good to have some price discovery in this area.
Will this change have implications for the rent charged by the council on Tallaght Stadium?
This might even help with the Limerick examinership in that money often follows money into certain sectors.
Clear that the members are happy with this deal, but can 2 million make such a difference, especially with Dundalk still around?

[Ezeikial]

will this spook peak 6, now 2 horses in the race, what do dundalk fans really think about the longevity of peak 6's commitment to DFC

Spook - as in frighten, panic, unnerve about the prospect of some club other than Cork providing a challenge? Rather than being alarmed I imagine they would welcome the competition, if it actually transpires. Peak6 are hardly any more or less committed because of Desmond taking a shareholding - why would they be?

In the 2 seasons that Peak6 took over, Dundalk have won the league title by more than 10 points and have captured 2 leagues, 1 FAI Cup, & 1 League Cup - or 4 out of the 6 major trophies available.

Dundalk have had closer competition from Cork over the period 2014 - 2018 than what has emerged so far from anyone else. Hopefully in 2020 Rovers or somone else will be able to push Dundalk domestically in a way that could be beneficial for European performances

The key for Peak6 is likely to be trying to make progress in Europe and they appear willing to invest in the squad in pursuit of that