Winding Up Order Against Company Behind Limerick

[Shearer]

Any word on wages?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Haven't heard/read anything.

[blueblood]

Live 95 Sport can reveal that Limerick FC manager Tommy Barrett has confirmed that “The Chairman (Pat O’Sullivan) met with the (Limerick FC) players this morning and that they are going to be paid tonight”.
As usual I'll believe it when I see it

[blueblood]

Live 95 Sport can reveal that Limerick FC manager Tommy Barrett has confirmed that “The Chairman (Pat O’Sullivan) met with the (Limerick FC) players this morning and that they are going to be paid tonight”.
As usual I'll believe it when I see it
On twitter

[NeverFeltBetter]

Apparently a decision to end the threat of strike action will be taken tomorrow morning, depending on if the money is delivered as promised.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Between The Stripes reporting the pro's have been paid by cheque and the semi-pros expenses are to be paid next week. Game against Cabinteely is on.

[seand]

Paid by cheque? Not paid then.

[Mr A]

Paid by cheque? Not paid then.

Ohhhh, that's very cynical.

And exactly what I thought.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I believe they were paid last month by cheque (for the month previous to that) and they cleared.

But these could bounce and I wouldn't be surprised.

[blueblood]

They should all take time off to go to the bank wherever it is and find out there and then if the money is actually there

[Lim till i die]

I believe they were paid last month by cheque.

Yes.


and they cleared

Nope...

[NeverFeltBetter]

If so, why are they playing tonight?

[blueblood]

Feck Bray Limerick are now the new North Korea we even have power failures to prove it 🤗🤗🤗

[bluewhitearmy]

If so, why are they playing tonight?

Footballers are stupid.

[ToberonaTornado]

sceptical as fuq to say the least.


Dermot Desmond and JP McManus have made enquiries to see if they can help Irish football through its crisis.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/desmond-and-mcmanus-offer-help-to-the-fai-as-talks-continue-over-crisis-38146814.html

[NeverFeltBetter]

Conor Ellis left Limerick at least partly because "the club has consistently failed to pay my wages and rent allowance on time": https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/426635/exclusive-connor-ellis-on-his-departure-from-limerick-fc.html

Doesn't come as a shock, but speaks to the continuing crisis at the club.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Only one professional player left at the club: https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/427974/exodus-of-players-continues-at-limerick-fc.html

I'm stunned we've managed to stay as high in the table as we have, but that will be coming to an end soon enough.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Mike Aherne reported over the weekend that the Academy and womens sides are having trouble accessing funds in their accounts. The academy releasing a statement later tonight.

The club appears to be shuffling along in a zombie-like state at the moment, just trying to see out the season. There's no indication that POS is anywhere near selling the club, and can only assume debts are getting larger if we're barely getting 300 in the door for home games.

[sullanefc]

Applying for examinership.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/limerick-fc-forced-to-tackle-debts-crisis-with-examinership-bg5tt2cr6

[NeverFeltBetter]

The Limerick FC Independent Supporters Club FB page has a screenshot for those who want to read past the pay wall. Long story short, the club has huge debts, most notably to a local hotel, Garda and UL/LIT, and O'Sullivan is seeking a state of examinership so they can have legal protections applied to the club's "assets", which, by his contention, includes its league license. That is, the hope is to stop the FAI from shopping that around, since they are apparently close to, or already have, written POS off as someone to do business with going forward.

I'm not au fait with such procedures, but as it stands I can't see a team from Limerick being in the LOI next season. And rightfully so.

[pineapple stu]

Worth noting too that the FAI have basically told O'Sullivan to bugger off, but he's refusing to do so -


Football sources say Noel Mooney, the interim Football Association of Ireland (FAI) general manager, has sought assurances from Pat O’Sullivan, the club’s owner, that he will not apply for a licence for next season, but O’Sullivan has not complied.

Fun times in Limerick again...

[NeverFeltBetter]

O'Sullivan has really dropped off the radar since the start of the season, which is ironic for a guy who loved the spotlight a bit too much in slightly better times. There were some rumours about his health at some point, but all unsubstantiated.

Regardless of any of that, there's no future for him with Limerick at LOI level, and he won't be making his money back.

[Ezeikial]

The Limerick FC Independent Supporters Club FB page has a screenshot for those who want to read past the pay wall.


Full article


The owner of League of Ireland First Division club Limerick FC plans to apply for examinership in the Circuit Court this week as the company that runs the club has debts of €300,000 and faces losing its professional licence.

Football sources say Noel Mooney, the interim Football Association of Ireland (FAI) general manager, has sought assurances from Pat O’Sullivan, the club’s owner, that he will not apply for a licence for next season, but O’Sullivan has not complied.

It is understood the FAI wants to seek expressions of interest from other clubs or investors who would be interested in applying for a professional club licence and taking Limerick’s place.

However, O’Sullivan’s Munster Football Club Ltd, which trades as Limerick FC, is in talks with Neil Hughes, an accountant with Baker Tilly, about seeking court protection from creditors. O’Sullivan hopes examinership will protect Limerick from having its FAI licence removed as he sees this as a company asset. The club has two fixtures remaining this season and currently sits sixth in the 10-team division.

It is understood that the company’s biggest creditor is a local hotel in Limerick, while substantial sums are also owed to the gardai for match policing, as well as both the University of Limerick and Limerick Institute of Technology. O’Sullivan declined to comment.

Last November a Revenue High Court application to wind up Munster Football Club Ltd over unpaid taxes was struck out following a settlement between the parties. O’Sullivan, who rescued Limerick FC from financial ruin in 2009, is understood to have invested more than €4m in the club, which reported an annual loss of €132,000 for the year ending November 30, 2017, its last filed accounts. In 2015 O’Sullivan said that his financial support for the club would be reduced and the club would have to “live within its means”.
The FAI said it was discussing with the club “the future of football in the city with the aim of protecting and developing senior football in Limerick”.

Separately, the company that runs the County Wicklow and District Football League faces being struck off by the Companies Registration Office over the non-filing of accounts that were due on October 31 last year. There are concerns in Wicklow that up to €20,000 has gone missing from the company that runs the 39-team amateur league over four divisions. A person who allegedly has copies of certain records is said not to be co-operating with the league.

Michael Conlon, the chairman of the league, who is not suspected of any wrongdoing, said he could not comment. The FAI said it was assisting the Wicklow league as it took legal advice on this issue and could not comment further.

Meanwhile, the FAI plans to appoint four independent directors, including a new chairman, to its board before the end of September. More than 50 people have applied for the non-paid positions created following a governance review carried out with Sport Ireland.

David Hall, a businessman who runs a private ambulance firm and who is also involved in charities that support those in debt arrears, has confirmed he has applied.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/limerick-fc-forced-to-tackle-debts-crisis-with-examinership-bg5tt2cr6

[Zenith]

"The FAI said it was discussing with the club “the future of football in the city with the aim of protecting and developing senior football in Limerick”."

Mooney's tweet is a little more ambiguous as to who they're actually in discussions with.

https://twitter.com/NoelMooney13/status/1168128601679630336?s=19

[4tothefloor]

O'Sullivan has really dropped off the radar since the start of the season, which is ironic for a guy who loved the spotlight a bit too much in slightly better times. There were some rumours about his health at some point, but all unsubstantiated.

Regardless of any of that, there's no future for him with Limerick at LOI level, and he won't be making his money back.

No surprise, been on the cards for the past 2 seasons. Won't get a licence next season, for multiple reasons, no friends in the FAI this time round. Don't think he'll have a ground to play in either to be honest. Has lost the backing of most of the supporters, including all the ones that matter. Most are staying away and keeping their money in their pockets until he is gone. Without the backing of the supporters or local business community the club is not viable, as is currently the case. Current attendances wouldn't even cover basic club expenses.

I fully expect a new club to be formed. POS will not let go of the current club so I'd imagine all parties will be happy to just let it crash and burn - no relegation to worry about, no professionals left at the club anyway, no debt going forward, plus the added bonus of consigning that bloody horrendous disney castle crest to history. A win win all round, except for any of the creditors of course.... Limerick 37 United Wanderers here we come :bigsmile:

[NeverFeltBetter]

I was thinking about the "license as a protected asset" idea.The FAI would presumably argue that a licence must be renewed every year, is subject to certain conditions and that POS/Limerick FC is not meeting them. But then POS/Limerick FC could say that every other club in the league isn't meeting them either, so why are being singled out? Is that something the FAI wants in the courts system?

[Nesta99]

It is really baffling when owners of clubs stick around willing to let a club die rather than sell on or hand over to new people. Is it pride, resentment, or a fear that someone else might do a better job. Bray, Cork, Dundalk, to a lesser extent Drogheda, Athlone have all had or have owners that seemed to want to spite supporters.

[osarusan]

It is really baffling when owners of clubs stick around willing to let a club die rather than sell on or hand over to new people. Is it pride, resentment, or a fear that someone else might do a better job. Bray, Cork, Dundalk, to a lesser extent Drogheda, Athlone have all had or have owners that seemed to want to spite supporters.

He wants something back after all the money he has put in (and mostly wasted).

But the club is worth nothing now, maybe a nominal fee of a euro or whatever.

He can't see that though, and he's an incredibly stubborn man. Maybe he thinks the FAI won't want to let senior football in Limerick die so he can hold them/the club to ransom somehow, but it would just be more likely that a new club will start up.

[Nesta99]

It's the same scenario all round - looking for some return which isnt likely to happen. The exception maybe is Gerry Matthews who held the lease and used it as leverage after the club earned some European money. He did save the club though and did more work on the ground than others. On the other hand he practically gutted the club, including removing the bar etc from the YDC before he moved on. O'Sullivan knows exactly what situation the club is in and what value there is - he wont get something for nothing. If there is debt accumulated he should be happy to sell if that is serviced rather than have his name sullied with walking away and leaving creditors and a phoenix club the result!

[Ezeikial]

It's the same scenario all round - looking for some return which isnt likely to happen. The exception maybe is Gerry Matthews who held the lease and used it as leverage after the club earned some European money. He did save the club though and did more work on the ground than others. On the other hand he practically gutted the club, including removing the bar etc from the YDC before he moved on.

Would that be the bar fittings that he funded and installed that the incoming new owners said they had no interest in acquiring?


The narrative of Gerry Matthews stripping the club of assets while simultaneously funding the successive annual losses for most of his five year involvement is somewhat odd

[Nesta99]

It's true that there is something a contradiction - he threatened to demolish and sell the YDC as scrap in entirety. What I was alluding to was that club owners feel they deserve a return which is usually very unlikely. GM's circumstance differed in this regard. He improved Oriel Park and did a lot of positive and essential work but then took the club to the brink of extinction when there wasnt necessarily an option to sell for him to get money back. Undoing a lot of the goodwill that was felt toward him. The opportunity arose subsequently to compensate for his financial input. But you know Ezeikial that it was hardly a cordial process, both the initial sale and dealing that happened after, that certainly toward the end of his ownership there was growing concern, significant animosity between fans and owner and it wasnt all due to the then on pitch perfromances. The existance of the club was held to ransome.

The situation with the YDC was complex, building levies, issues with the Casey Trust land and the sort of money GM was looking for meant the new owners didnt want the YDC. It was a stand-off based on a whole load of circumstances and not that the YDC was an asset that wasnt wanted. The original proposal for the YDC as part o the sale of the club was for GM to sublet back the YDC for 10 years and at nominal fee with an option to extend the proposal for an additional 10 years - in total it would have worked out as a couple of €k to the benefit to Dundalk FC hence the issue that Des Casey was persuing through legal channels, it would have contravened the Trust Lease agreement. Why not take the roof of the stand with him? I find it sad that his contribution to the club soured and is generally forgotten. He stubbornly did what it seems O'Sullivan is now doing except O'Sullivan doesnt have assets to take with him. GM recieved sound advice not to pull the club down seeking a pound of flesh but he came damn close! There are other aspects to this while probably public knowledge but not necessarily for a public forum and GM certainly went to the bother of calling out people on fora for negative commentary. But going to the trouble of stripping out a bar that was going to be of no value or use elsewhere was 'asset' stripping just 'cause he could and an indication that he could carry out threats made.

[Ezeikial]

But going to the trouble of stripping out a bar that was going to be of no value or use elsewhere was 'asset' stripping just 'cause he could and an indication that he could carry out threats made.

If you wander in to Russell’s Saloon in Dundalk (recently named the Gin Bar of the Year at the Bar of the Year awards) you might recognise some of the bar fittings you mentioned.

GM was the author of his own misfortune in many aspects of how he dealt with things, especially in the latter stages of his tenure, but the cartoon villain status is not deserved. It's probably more appropriate to discuss the details in a forum in about 10 years time, but there are enormous inaccuracies unfairly attributed to him.

[Nesta99]

Gin bars are far too upmarket for me!!

I generally agree with with what you say on GM hence why i said I find it sad that his contribution to the club soured and is generally forgotten. In the stadium thread among other places Ive listed the work he did on Oriel and credited him with saving the club when it was looking very bleak. While there are enourmous inaccuracies there are also well publicised 'errors of judgement' and a few (now irrelevant) questions from the latter stages of his ownership.

[Lim till i die]

It just sounds like another one of Pat's zany schemes.

Somebody cleverer than him has probably sent him off to chase this particular wild goose.

Like I get that a 2019 license is an asset. In so far as it's something tangible that he possesses.

But once the 2019 season is over it becomes about as valuable as the litre of milk I have in my fridge will be if I keep it until the end of the season.

The FAI can then simply tell him get stuffed for any number of reasons.

I'm no big city lawyer either but I reckon "Look at them over there they're as bad as me and they got a license" isn't really a strong argument in court.

[sbgawa]

I don't see how POS "protecting his licence" helps him tbh.
If the fans (or whomever) found a new company and apply for a licence to play in Limerick they will get one if their finances are put together properly.
He is hardly going to apply for a licence and organize a pitch to play on as the second team in Limerick if all the fans and business community are behind the new venture.

[Nesta99]

I don't see how POS "protecting his licence" helps him tbh.
If the fans (or whomever) found a new company and apply for a licence to play in Limerick they will get one if their finances are put together properly.
He is hardly going to apply for a licence and organize a pitch to play on as the second team in Limerick if all the fans and business community are behind the new venture.

This is LoI so stranger things have happened. If he is stubborn enough (or deluded enough) some 'new investors' a fancy proposal with an acceptable budget...well you just wouldnt know what could be attempted. Galway football is a kind of precedent and didnt Tom Coghlan at one point state that he would try and keep Cork City going even though FORAS had a licence application in that was going to be accepted - wasnt it that he wasnt going to get a licence if he applied that made him give it up, but he tried?

Maybe O'Sullivan is courting potential buyers that he thinks he can get money from - sure a good couple of years, get in to Europe and buyers make their outlay back and all is solved.....

[NeverFeltBetter]

There have been a few different groups/consortium/like-minded individuals that have attempted to negotiate either a full or partial sale of the club, but they all appear to have run a mile at different points of the process. All the indications are that POS's asking price is unrealistically high, or he has expectations of still being involved in the clubs running after its sold.

[pineapple stu]

I'm no big city lawyer either but I reckon "Look at them over there they're as bad as me and they got a license" isn't really a strong argument in court.
Don't forget the participation agreement precludes any club taking legal action against the FAI I think. So if he does sue for a licence, that ipso facto means he can't have one

[El-Pietro]

This is LoI so starnger things have happened. If he is stubborn enough (or deluded enough) some 'new investors' a fancy proposal with an acceptable budget...well you just wouldnt know what could be attempted. Galway football is a kind of precedent and didnt Tom Coghlan at one point state that he would try and keep Cork City going even though FORAS had a licence application in that was hoing to be accepted - wasnt it that he wasnt going to get a licence if he applied that made him give it up, but he tried?

To clarify this point, FORAS submitted a license application in as a failsafe, and agreed with the FAI that it would only be approved if Cork City Investments Limited did not have the license approved. FORAS (with some third party business people) did everything in its power to buy CCIFL and maintain the PL license, with full intention of paying off all debts. Coughlan ****ed around too much and was clearly hiding some debt and wanted FORAS to take on the company without full due dilligence. I believe he was trying to get a payday out of it.

[Nesta99]

Unsurprisingly there is a consistant trend - naive of business people without really deep pockets to take a punt on LoI in hope of a return of the money they spend. Buyer beware and all that. Thanks for that clarification EP it makes sense that FORAS were a fallback to keep a club in Cork City. Without wanting to sound like I'm poking a hornets nest, when did FORAS manage to buy CCIFL to maintain continuity with the '84 club. Or was it let go and the name of City Football Club subsequently reregistered? I really dont intend this as a loaded question! How the connect between Limerick City, 37, and FC if they are there, I could do with some refreshing also?! :teeth:

[El-Pietro]

Unsurprisingly there is a consistant trend - naive of business people without really deep pockets to take a punt on LoI in hope of a return of the money they spend. Buyer beware and all that. Thanks for that clarification EP it makes sense that FORAS were a fallback to keep a club in Cork City. Without wanting to sound like I'm poking a hornets nest, when did FORAS manage to buy CCIFL to maintain continuity with the '84 club. Or was it let go and the name of City Football Club subsequently reregistered? I really dont intend this as a loaded question! How the connect between Limerick City, 37, and FC if they are there, I could do with some refreshing also?! :teeth:
No worries, its a hard subject to talk about without sounding like a dig. CCIFL went to the wall eventually. FORAS never bought it back though FORAS did buy some intellectual property including the name and some other small things as part of up the wind up process, though I'm vague on the specifics.

Cork City FC never stopped playing football, the Underage teams continued playing throughout the process under the name Cork City FC, and funded by FORAS. City played as FORAS Co-Op for the one year to prevent any litigation by Coughlan or the liquidators. Once CCIFL was no more the FAI "awarded" the history etc to FORAS. We probably didn't need to go with the longer name for that year, probably being overly cautious. I believe tge process was complete by mid season 2010, but you can't change the name of the playing team mid season.

Before anyone says you can't buy intellectual property or have history assigned Bury FC did something very similar in the last 12 months. Their owner created two companies spinning the history and trophies off into the second company which I believe he did so that he can "sell" it to a Pheonix club. Everytime I read anything about him I get memories of Coughlan, they seem like two of a kind.

I don't think I'm qualified to speak on Limerick.

[sbgawa]

If Limerick fans started a new company and new club i would'nt have a problem with them keeping their "History" i would have a problem if POS went belly up and started again and tried to keep the History.
I've always believed the club belongs to the fans regardless of who the actual registered owners are.

[kingpin4]

There have been a few different groups/consortium/like-minded individuals that have attempted to negotiate either a full or partial sale of the club, but they all appear to have run a mile at different points of the process. All the indications are that POS's asking price is unrealistically high, or he has expectations of still being involved in the clubs running after its sold.

Sure wasn't there that rumour that he wanted to stay over the academy, and any players who moved up from the academy to the first team would earn Pat a fee from the First team?

what he gets out of the club being the way it currently is, is only for him to know. as a business man, I'm sure there is some endgame,,,

[Nesta99]

No worries, its a hard subject to talk about without sounding like a dig. CCIFL went to the wall eventually. FORAS never bought it back though FORAS did buy some intellectual property including the name and some other small things as part of up the wind up process, though I'm vague on the specifics.

Cork City FC never stopped playing football, the Underage teams continued playing throughout the process under the name Cork City FC, and funded by FORAS. City played as FORAS Co-Op for the one year to prevent any litigation by Coughlan or the liquidators. Once CCIFL was no more the FAI "awarded" the history etc to FORAS. We probably didn't need to go with the longer name for that year, probably being overly cautious. I believe tge process was complete by mid season 2010, but you can't change the name of the playing team mid season.

Before anyone says you can't buy intellectual property or have history assigned Bury FC did something very similar in the last 12 months. Their owner created two companies spinning the history and trophies off into the second company which I believe he did so that he can "sell" it to a Pheonix club. Everytime I read anything about him I get memories of Coughlan, they seem like two of a kind.

I don't think I'm qualified to speak on Limerick.

Appreciate that EP! I was living abroad at that time so was living off scraps, both in info terms and fighting terms on fora like foot.ie. It is easy to pontificate about transferring history to a phoenix club when not in that position. There are no shortage of examples and the reactions of rival fans on this. I would find it hard not to see a Dundalk side, playing in the same colours, in Oriel, after the effort of saving the club, with roll of honour carried forward - the supporters are the club. That said it's tends to be there for a low blow when things get heated between rival support and I am probably not above throwing a odd low blow now and again ;)

Like all of these situations we wont get inside the head of the likes of PO'S to really know what he is thinking. For all we know he is the diametric opposite to an Ollie Horgan and believes that all will be grand in the end...

[The Lilywhites]

https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1168959610256076800?s=21

Assume this is to do with the Sligo game.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Probably not just that game.

[Shearer]

Sligo game more than likely the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Ezeikial]

Daniel McDonnell has very little more to add


The FAI are awaiting a report from gardai after pictures emerged of officers conducting an investigation into alleged match fixing centred around a sports ground in Limerick.

A Twitter post from an official account of the Gardai showed members of the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau 'at the conclusion of a search operation that was carried out today at a sports ground in Limerick in relation to an investigation into match fixing. Local Garda members also assisted in the search.'

The search is related to football matters and the FAI last night made a statement which said: "The FAI are aware of the developments and are awaiting a report from the Gardai."

A more substantive update is expected in the next week.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/garda-search-limerick-sports-grounds-amid-alleged-match-fixing-probe-38464804.html

[redarmyfaction]

https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1168959610256076800?s=21

Assume this is to do with the Sligo game.

We have had these investigations before and they went nowhere, no exchange or book maker suspended payment on any Limerick game AFAIK so this will probably go nowhere too.

[ToberonaTornado]

We have had these investigations before and they went nowhere, no exchange or book maker suspended payment on any Limerick game AFAIK so this will probably go nowhere too.

BIG money doesn't necessarily always go to the MS bookies & "trends" might not be visible.
Easy these days to gamble with private bookies in Hong Kong,Macau,Dark web etc... and actually get paid with no questions asked.