Republic of Ireland V Denmark - Tue, 14 November 2017 World Cup 2018 Play Off 2nd Leg

[jbyrne]

We were awful, simple fact of the matter, had we fluckily went 2-0 up I still think we'd have lost. It wasn't close enough to bother looking at individual moments, yes games change on little things, but from start to finish we were as bad as I have ever seen, 5-1 was a fair reflection and Denmark are far from world beaters.

no fluke about either of the moves that created the two (Murphy and McLean) chances to put us 2-0 up. in fact there was a 2nd murphy chance after an excellent brady ball down the line to mcclean.
the first 30 mins were very open with both teams creating equal chances.

we just seemed to fall to pieces after the 2nd goal and the daft HT substitutions really destroyed us. had we got the second id bet we would have successfully shut up shop as we did in Cardiff and Copenhagen.

one last thing.... don't let anyone even nearly suggest we are the best fans in the world ever again. the 25,000 or so who left 15 mins from the end were disgraceful. always maintained we have roughly 20,000 fans who care deep down and last night proved it.... although maybe they left to help an old lady cross the road or fix a puncture or two :rolleyes:

[Kingdom]

one last thing.... don't let anyone even nearly suggest we are the best fans in the world ever again. the 25,000 or so who left 15 mins from the end were disgraceful. always maintained we have roughly 20,000 fans who care deep down and last night proved it.... although maybe they left to help an old lady cross the road or fix a puncture or two :rolleyes:

It started with the 3rd goal very clearly on television. Horrid to see.

[backstothewall]

one last thing.... don't let anyone even nearly suggest we are the best fans in the world ever again. the 25,000 or so who left 15 mins from the end were disgraceful. always maintained we have roughly 20,000 fans who care deep down and last night proved it.... although maybe they left to help an old lady cross the road or fix a puncture or two :rolleyes:

I left after the 3rd goal. I used up brownie points at work to leave at 4 o'clock yesterday, drove 120 miles to get to the game, went through the usual pain of getting parked in D4, and was in my seat early as requested by the FAI.

By leaving early I got back to the house shortly before midnight for once instead of closer to 1am which is more usual.

I do this for every home game. People come from further than me and I'm not asking for anyone's thanks or praise, but if that makes me a disgrace in your eyes I'll have to just take it.

Tell me, did you have much bother getting a bus back into town? :rolleyes:

[jbyrne]

I left after the 3rd goal. I used up brownie points at work to leave at 4 o'clock yesterday, drove 120 miles to get to the game, went through the usual pain of getting parked in D4, and was in my seat early as requested by the FAI.

By leaving early I got back to the house shortly before midnight for once instead of closer to 1am which is more usual.

I do this for every home game. I'm not asking for anyone's thanks or praise, but if that makes me a disgrace in your eyes I'll have to just take it.

Tell me, did you have much bother getting a bus back into town? :rolleyes:

there's always a reasonable excuse for some but it was telling that the dart I got after the game had less than half the usual passengers than usual for the same stage after previous matches so not everyone who left early was travelling very far. id say many were back on their bar stools before the game ended.

btw I have travelled to the likes of limerick when we played outside of Dublin so I have some idea of your commute although obviously not as regularly as you.

[EAFC_rdfl]

An attacker breaking into the box right by the by line - the cover was needed at the far post! There was none - 1-1.
Did the goal come from someone coming in on the far post?

[brine3]

Maybe we should just have somebody on both posts for the full 90 minutes. We play so deep we don't have to worry about the offsides trap anyway... :think:

[Razors left peg]

This is 100% exactly what Ive been thinking

I think this is the lowest point I remember for the Ireland side in my 50 plus years. And we have had some bad ones. Denmark are a bang average side with a very good midfielder, not a world class one. They are certainly not in the same league as the Denmark team that took us apart twice in the 80's. Since Brian Kerr we have had a succession of managers who instil lack of belief into the squad and encourage the squad to defend deep and try and nick a goal, then hang on for dear life. The neutrals who watched Saturdays game must have been praying we didn't make it, imagine having to watch that style played out on world cup TV for 90 minutes. My suggestion is forget the Euros, get rid of the veterans and try and build with younger players, and yes, even Eircom league players if they do the business in European club competition. We are going nowhere with this O'Neill. Get the other one or Kenny.

[mark12345]

This is 100% exactly what Ive been thinking

It's time for a statement of intent by the FAI. I understand they are doing moderately well in terms of underage development at the moment, even if it is 20 years past due. But there has to be a marrying of the LOI with the national team. Better people than me have said that after recent campaigns. I would like the FAI to forego the million euros they'll spend on the next coaches ( O'Neill should step down following the catalogue of mistakes he has made in this campaign) and appoint someone like Stephen Kenny with Damien Duff, a highly respected and highly credible figure, as his assistant. Both men have a vested interest in the game at home.

[Razors left peg]

I'd love to get Robbie Keane involved in someway in the set up. I like what he says when he talks football

[seanfhear]

There was an awful lot wrong in that Danish move before Christie’s unfortunate off the post own goal .

Allowing 2 on 1s from corners is Tres Bad and its not as if there wasn’t warnings in the first game......

[tricky_colour]

Maybe we should just have somebody on both posts for the full 90 minutes. We play so deep we don't have to worry about the offsides trap anyway... :think:

Maybe stick 11 on the goal line? They would struggle to score 5 if we did!

[mark12345]

I'd love to get Robbie Keane involved in someway in the set up. I like what he says when he talks football

Would love it too if Robbie became involved. He's a real diplomat when he talks about the game so he wouldn't have a problem dealing with the press. And I think he knows a little bit about the game itself.

[KrisLetang]

Serious question, is he still playing in India?

[shakermaker1982]

I think we started with the wrong team last night but what’s most disappointing is how we imploded once Denmark got the equaliser. The team lost their heads and panic set in for those 3 minutes. 1-1 at HT wouldn’t have been so bad.

The individual errors were Sunday morning football bad. The two goals Ward ****ed up are goals I see from amateur players who are hungover - but you’d still get balled at for doing it. They should not be taking place in a World Cup playoff. MO’N can be blamed for the style of football & team selection but howlers from players falls squarely at the door of the players themselves. They’ll be feeling the hurt & Ward has had a good campaign but he messed up in our biggest match. That 2nd goal is criminal.

I think MO’N on the whole has done a good job. We’ve taken some big scalps & it’s a shame that will all be forgotten about in the aftermath.

MO’N knows he messed up big time at HT. The McGeady sub was mind boggling & no CM explains the 1-5 result. We went from cautious to all our attack and paid the price.

He has also probably been a bit too loyal to some of the players as well. Brady has been terrible for ages and should have been hooked but managed to stay on (whilst moaning and only wanting to stay on set pieces).

Where do we go from here? We need to keep the ball better but we also need to retain some elements of what we are good at. We need new players but do we have any top class players coming through? The FAI will probably want to keep the MO’N/Keane partnership because it generates interest (media and fan wise). If they appointed a lesser name whilst in a transitional phase with untested players then I’d expect the interest to drop in the national team - they still need to sell season tickets. It’ll only be us saddos on foot.ie talking about them. The papers will have a 24 hour inquest on the state of the game in Ireland and talk about grassroots etc but then the focus will return to Man United and Liverpool and before you know it all is forgotten.

At the end of the day we need better players. To do that the LOI needs to flourish and/or talented youngsters who’d normally head to England need to look elsewhere for their development.

[mark12345]

I think we started with the wrong team last night but what’s most disappointing is how we imploded once Denmark got the equaliser. The team lost their heads and panic set in for those 3 minutes. 1-1 at HT wouldn’t have been so bad.

The individual errors were Sunday morning football bad. The two goals Ward ****ed up are goals I see from amateur players who are hungover - but you’d still get balled at for doing it. They should not be taking place in a World Cup playoff. MO’N can be blamed for the style of football & team selection but howlers from players falls squarely at the door of the players themselves. They’ll be feeling the hurt & Ward has had a good campaign but he messed up in our biggest match. That 2nd goal is criminal.

I think MO’N on the whole has done a good job. We’ve taken some big scalps & it’s a shame that will all be forgotten about in the aftermath.

MO’N knows he messed up big time at HT. The McGeady sub was mind boggling & no CM explains the 1-5 result. We went from cautious to all our attack and paid the price.

He has also probably been a bit too loyal to some of the players as well. Brady has been terrible for ages and should have been hooked but managed to stay on (whilst moaning and only wanting to stay on set pieces).

Where do we go from here? We need to keep the ball better but we also need to retain some elements of what we are good at. We need new players but do we have any top class players coming through? The FAI will probably want to keep the MO’N/Keane partnership because it generates interest (media and fan wise). If they appointed a lesser name whilst in a transitional phase with untested players then I’d expect the interest to drop in the national team - they still need to sell season tickets. It’ll only be us saddos on foot.ie talking about them. The papers will have a 24 hour inquest on the state of the game in Ireland and talk about grassroots etc but then the focus will return to Man United and Liverpool and before you know it all is forgotten.

At the end of the day we need better players. To do that the LOI needs to flourish and/or talented youngsters who’d normally head to England need to look elsewhere for their development.

Martin O'Neill has not done a good job during this campaign. The man who was so, so brilliant in leading Celtic and Leicester to glory days, has somehow, somewhere, gone missing in action. I posted the case for him / against him in another section, but here it is again.

The Case For O'Neill Staying:
1. He was hired to do a job for the FAI, a job where the goal was to get his team to the World Cup. He came very very close.
2. He has blooded a couple of good players in Callum O'Dowda and Cyrus Christie
3. He has been loyal to his players.
4. Getting rid of O'Neill would mean starting all over again.
5. O'Neill has a good grasp of the Irish scene, whereas a foreign or English manager might not.
6. He restored confidence to the team in that they became hard to score against.


The Case Against O'Neill Staying:

1. Ireland were as lucky as lucky can be in this campaign. We needed teams to do us a series of favors in the final two games and all of the favors came to fruition. It was an uncanny run of luck. We were also lucky in Wales, having defended for most of the ninety minutes and also in Georgia, again having defended for almost ninety minutes.

2. O'Neill's loyalty to his players was a major part of his downfall. It was clear to everyone that he stayed loyal to Glenn Whelan, when he should have jettisoned him for a more capable midfielder. Proof of his wrongdoing regarding Whelan came in the final three games where he stared Arter in his stead (if Whelan was so brilliant why would he drop him for the team's three most crucial games). Also he stayed loyal for far too long to Daryl Murphy. Murphy had scored a goal in Serbia but was not worthy of a place in the starting eleven (many would argue, and rightly so, he wasn't worthy of a place on the subs bench either). Be that as it may, having been picked on the back of a two goal performance against Moldova, Murphy was made the main striker in Cardiff. It was patently obvious after 45 minutes that he was completely ineffective in the role he was playing. Admittedly if he was given a ball or two in front of goal he might have made hay, but under the circumstances he should have been withdrawn at half time in Cardiff. O'Neill's loyalty to his man meant that we had no tip to our spear. We emerged with a victory nonetheless, but there was no apparent evaluation of Daryl's performance and so he was given two subsequent starts against Denmark. Again he should have been withdrawn at half time in Copenhagen - Long or Hogan are far more mobile - and insanely he was started from the off in the Dublin game. Loyalty, blind loyalty from O'Neill cost his team.

3. O'Neill was single handedly responsible for the dropping of two points against Austria. Austria were one of the weakest teams to visit Dublin in years. They were there for the taking, yet we treated them like they were Germany. We played scared - hoofing the ball all day long and paid the price with the goal against us just before half time. We spent the rest of the game chasing the win and, inexplicably, Hoolahan was kept off the pitch until the final twenty minutes. When he came on, Wes changed the game. We got an equaliser and almost a winner. Proof positive that he should have started.

4. Hard to outdo the performance against Austria, Martin hit new depths with the performance in Tblisi. One was left to ask oneself if the players had been instructed to stand in their own penalty area and just kick the ball back to their opponents rather than try something constructive? How could a manager ask his players to do that? He never would - it is the equivalent of football suicide. But, based on the subsequent evidence, that's apparently exactly what Martin O'Neill instructed his players to do.

5. More of the same against Wales. We defended well, no doubt about it, but remember Wales were without their two most creative players (Allen being injured), and got the smash and grab goal.

6. O'Neill basked in the glow of the Cardiff success, and even deserves a modicum of credit for his team's keeping a clean sheet in Copenhagen. But having said after Copenhagen that we needed to be creative in the return leg, the manager left his most influential player off the park from the off. If Hoolahan was not good enough, or not influential enough to play in three quarters of the tie against Denmark, why then bother bringing him on for the final quarter. Very misleading. Did Wes have something to offer the team or not?

7. The sum total of Martin O'Neill's performance as a coach for this campaign was misguided loyalty to his players, and a catalogue of highly questionable decisions regarding team selection. Ultimately it was his suicidal tactics (the performance in Tblisi is beyond reproach) and the style of play he fermented with his players which are most galling

[geysir]

Was it not Arter who was nutmegged easily? Meyler was covering Eriksen out wide?

Maybe a long distance cover of Eriksen, he was also covering space in middle of the 5m box, he didn't spot the threat of Christiansen and made a feeble effort to block the shot.


https://youtu.be/C3MBiivBHz0?t=46

[geysir]

No he wasn't. And neither was Christie. Hendrick was asleep.

Looks like Meyler nr18 to me.

https://img.rasset.ie/000ef34f-614.jpg?ratio=1.78

[bennocelt]

Robbie Keane? Really, a come on guys! Monosyllable and dull. He will never be a manager, sorry to burst that bubble!

[KrisLetang]

I don't think they want him as manager they just want him involved. Maybe like John Elway is with the Denver Broncos.

[backstothewall]

On the first goal there is plenty of blame to go around.

The short corner is taken. McClean is trying to mark 2 people at the edge of the box, including Christensen who scores it. Arter is standing with legs like the Boyne Bridge and is done far to easily with the nutmeg. Once that happens he should really foul Sisto rather than let him into the box.

While that was happening McClean appears to give a shout in the general direction of Ward and Brady. warning them about Christensen. However they are occupied by other players and can't deal with him any more than McClean can.

Sisto plays the ball across, By this time Christie has gone to the middle of the goal (reasonably imho). Christensen is about to jog onto the ball yards from the goal. Meyler has to see the danger and attempt to get part of his body between the ball and the goal. His challenge isn't good enough. Chirstie is in the correct position, but is completely flat footed. Once Christensen gets the shot away, scruffy as it was, it's too late.

Meyler and Christie were both in decent positions, but both were too slow to react to the danger. It was that, and Arter's original mistake that cost us, rather than it being a great Danish move or a terribly dangerous situation.

[mark12345]

Robbie Keane? Really, a come on guys! Monosyllable and dull. He will never be a manager, sorry to burst that bubble!

You have a crystal ball into the future?
Monosyllable and dull?
Robbie Keane is one of the most diplomatic speakers I have ever seen. Never gets himself in trouble with the words he speaks.
And the man knows a bit about football wouldn't you say.

[mark12345]

On the first goal there is plenty of blame to go around.

The short corner is taken. McClean is trying to mark 2 people at the edge of the box, including Christensen who scores it. Arter is standing with legs like the Boyne Bridge and is done far to easily with the nutmeg. Once that happens he should really foul Sisto rather than let him into the box.

While that was happening McClean appears to give a shout in the general direction of Ward and Brady. warning them about Christensen. However they are occupied by other players and can't deal with him any more than McClean can.

Sisto plays the ball across, By this time Christie has gone to the middle of the goal (reasonably imho). Christensen is about to jog onto the ball yards from the goal. Meyler has to see the danger and attempt to get part of his body between the ball and the goal. His challenge isn't good enough. Chirstie is in the correct position, but is completely flat footed. Once Christensen gets the shot away, scruffy as it was, it's too late.

Meyler and Christie were both in decent positions, but both were too slow to react to the danger. It was that, and Arter's original mistake that cost us, rather than it being a great Danish move or a terribly dangerous situation.

Forget the post mortem about last night. What vision do you have for the future?

[gastric]

Just a thought, but might O'Neill's style of play, direct one football, become obsolete as we will probably become reliant on Maguire and Hogan upfront. I know Long will not retire, but with only one obvious target man within the squad, you would assume a different style of play may emerge.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Painful rewatching that capitulation and painful writing this blog but here it is.....

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/2017/11/christian-and-lord-show-no-mercy.html

[DannyInvincible]

Last night was awful. I was so disheartened, especially after it all started so well. I was expecting a tense, nail-biting 90 minutes, but the Danish goals certainly settled the nerves pretty quickly...

There were individual errors, sure - even our goal came from a Danish mistake - but I think O'Neill's tactical calls were very, very suspect. Clueless and embarrassing really. He's a great motivator - there's no doubt about that - but when it came to the crux (after having played things far too safe the whole campaign and happily settling for second best just because it still kept us "in with a shout" when automatic qualification was very much there for the taking), his tactical flaws were, once and for all, very badly exposed.

Before Denmark scored, we were pressing well and seemed to be managing OK - even Murphy or McClean could have added a second goal for us - but we panicked once they scored the two in quick succession and the wheels promptly came off the cart. When a team isn't organised properly, the chance of mistakes being punished is obviously increased.

O'Neill pretty much gave Eriksen free reign by taking off both Arter and Meyler. Bringing both McGeady and Wes on showed positive intent and I was initially enthusiastic about what I thought was a brave call, but he took the wrong players off and it soon became apparent there was still no actual game-plan or strategy. We'd committed men forward but still couldn't get the ball to them, whilst Denmark were given more space to play in our half. Did O'Neill think Denmark would just sit back and let us have the ball for the second 45 minutes?

Either Brady or Hendrick should have been pulled off at half-time. Brady was having a stinker and Hendrick had done absolutely nothing all half. Arter and Meyler were actually doing OK and provided an essential link between defence and attack, as well as covering the space in which Eriksen likes to operate. You can overload the attack all you want, but without that link, who's going to get the ball to the attackers you've just brought on?

From the outset of the second half, we huffed and puffed a bit more, but Denmark were actually the team who always looked more likely to score. And then for O'Neill to totally gut our vulnerable defence by replacing Clark with Long... We could have lost by more if it wasn't for Randolph, who was a stand-out performer over the two ties, despite all the goals we conceded. O'Neill's changes were the sort of changes a school-kid playing 'Football Manager' might make.

The first goal was calamitous. Were the players asleep or does O'Neill not have them drilled for set-pieces?

http://i64.tinypic.com/70hzd3.png

The Danes had multiple free men in the corner and at the edge of the box with no Irish players picking them up, so we were always going to be in trouble with our players scrambling to cover as soon as the short corner was taken. You can see Duffy instructing someone to cover them in the screenshot above.

The way the ball bobbled in off the post and then Christie's trailing leg was a sickener. It's hard to blame Christie really though as he was stretching, as he had to do. Someone suggested above that Christie was positioned poorly when the corner was taken, but he was on the post when it was taken (as can be seen above) and the situation evolved, which is why he eventually ended up closer to the centre of the goal whilst Randolph covered the front post from the threat presented by the incoming Sisto.

When the ball eventually bobbled Christie's way, he had to react. He couldn't just stand there and do nothing. As a result, he was off-balance and wasn't to know the ball was going to bounce off the post and back onto the leg on which he was balanced. He was stretching to try and block it because he obviously thought it was going to roll over the line. His fear was a reasonable one and I think it's harsh to blame him for the first. He was unfortunate.

In saying that, Christie had a poor game otherwise and we were lucky Stryger Larsen and Sisto didn't punish us with two decent chances due to Christie having been caught out of position on both occasions. His defensive positional awareness is poor and we've missed Coleman big-time, whilst also failing to blood Doherty.

On the second and third goals, Brady could have done much better in tracking Jørgensen and Eriksen, but I doubt there was any instruction there for him to track back after Arter and Meyler went off. For the second goal, Brady put Ward in trouble, and then, unforgivably, just gave up on trying to limit the developing threat.

http://i68.tinypic.com/o10go9.png

Brady (circled in yellow) is racing after Jørgensen (circled in red) in the screenshot above, but seconds later, as shown in the screenshot below, he's just given up and decides to have a casual jog.

http://i64.tinypic.com/5z39de.png

If he'd kept up chase (like Ward, who eventually ended up closer to Jørgensen than Brady, did, despite Ward being further away from Jørgensen than Brady after the chase commenced), I'm not saying Brady necessarily could have intercepted the pass into the centre from Poulsen, but he could have at least pressured Jørgensen and made it more difficult for him to find Eriksen totally free to his left. And where was Christie again?

Hendrick was keeping an eye on Eriksen in the lead-up to their third goal but then left him free to receive the ball as he had to go challenge Sisto, the man in possession. Brady was just jogging around in space and was completely asleep to the fact that Hendrick would inevitably be dragged across the field and away from Eriksen to cover Sisto on the ball. As a result, Eriksen was left with acres of space to shoot and all the sleeping Brady could do was watch from metres away. With Meyler and Arter gone, you have to assume the job of neutralising Eriksen rather ridiculously fell to Hendrick and/or Brady.

Ward was off-balance for the fourth goal, but we were horribly exposed with absolutely nobody in sight to try and mitigate the error as, once-again, Eriksen was totally free in that space in front of our box. Hendrick was far too far away from him and McGeady was chasing the Dane's shadow. You just won't get away with that sort of thing and it was a direct consequence of O'Neill's tactical mismanagement. We don't have a world-class player like Eriksen, but that doesn't mean we can't neutralise him, or at least make sure to try and do that. We did that well on Saturday night, but last night we let him do whatever he wanted and he duly punished us. To have the utter donkey Bendtner then score against us was just salt in the wounds.

I think this should have been the curtain on O'Neill's reign but it looks like we'll be stuck with him for another two years. It's not very uplifting or inspiring. I don't know why the FAI didn't wait until after the campaign - now, in other words - to make the decision on the new contract offer. Last night would have been the perfect cue to freshen things up a bit. It wouldn't necessarily have to have been a "sacking in disgrace"; just a matter of letting the old contract run its course and then freshening things up.

What does O'Neill offer for the next two years? Is he bringing us forward? If anything, we're regressing; frustratingly, performances have deteriorated over the past year or two and our play has sort of folded inward or backward on itself and gotten more agricultural and basic. Our supposed "plan B" (Wes) will almost certainly retire as he's 35 and a half. I just fear we'll be having the same conversation again in two years.

And what was up with O'Neill walking out of the RTÉ interview? He behaved similarly during interviews after other poor performances recently. He should face the heat and stop being so defensive and evasive; there are legit questions that need to be asked and that he needs to answer.

Big structural changes are needed within the game nationally; being so reliant on over-30s and players developed outside of Ireland tells its own story. But that's the same old story we've been shouting about it for years. Euro 2012 was supposed to have been a wake-up call. Losing 4-0 against Spain was bad, as was losing 6-1 against Germany at home under Trap, but this was much worse as, with the exception of Eriksen, Denmark are at our level. Will this be the wake-up call? Sadly, I don't have much hope that it will be.

I was disappointed and disheartened to see the stadium so empty as 90 minutes approached. I thought we were the "best fans in the world"... The players deserved to be thanked for their efforts throughout the campaign; the sincerity of their heart and effort has never been in doubt and they gave us some truly magic moments.

[DannyInvincible]

We can't take the holy ground here on matters like that.
We have a genuine scumbag in our team who is constantly trying to injure opponents. Its not even subtle anymore. Allen.v Wales Paulsen tonight. Bentnder tonight. Sisco tonight. Thats not.leadership its cowardice. The sooner someone breaks him up and he can see how reckless he's been, the better.

Are you referring to McClean? He's physical, tenacious and impassioned, but a "genuine scumbag"? No way. I can't agree with that at all.

Allen's head injury was caused either by clashing into the oncoming Meyler or by banging his head off the ground when he fell. McClean budged into Allen, but he did not directly cause that injury.

Poulsen clashed into the oncoming Ward after a fair shoulder from James. Are you saying James intentionally shoved Poulsen into Ward's elbow in the hope of injuring Poulsen? Things were moving quickly and I don't think you can accuse James of knowing that his attempt to budge Poulsen off the ball would result in Poulsen injuring himself off Ward. I'm pretty certain the ref stopped play because the player was down injured rather than to give a free-kick, because I'm not sure there was actually a foul there.

There wasn't a huge deal in the Bendtner tackle that gave away the penalty. It was in the 90th minute, James was physically tired (and obviously mentally drained too) after having chased back over half the pitch whilst we were already losing heavily. It was little more than a clumsy trip in an attempt to prevent a shot; it was hardly a "scumbag" attempt to injure the Dane.

I don't recall the Sisto incident. What happened there?

[NeverFeltBetter]

You have a crystal ball into the future?
Monosyllable and dull?
Robbie Keane is one of the most diplomatic speakers I have ever seen. Never gets himself in trouble with the words he speaks.
And the man knows a bit about football wouldn't you say.

He also has no coaching experience. If he wants to get into that side of things, let him do it at club level somewhere,and see how he gets on, let's not give him a job in the national team on the basis of his playing career: a mistake we've made before.

[backstothewall]

Forget the post mortem about last night. What vision do you have for the future?

I think we have a lot to feel confident about. We have problems for sure but we also have the opportunity of a full year without an important fixture to bring in new players and try to plug the gaps in the squad

We have options in goal, but realistically it will come down to who is playing at a decent level by the time we play a qualifier for the Euros. I'd like the back 4 of Coleman, Duffy, Clark, Brady to be carved in stone by then.

I think we can expect the following from those in or around the current squad to be available until the next Euros

Randolph
Elliott

Christie
Coleman
Doherty
Clark
Duffy
Long
Egan
Brady

Horgan
Hendrick
Hourihane
Meyler
Arter
O'Kane
McClean
O'Dowda

Long
Hogan
Maguire
O'Brien

Will Keane is also possibly going to be added to that list.

The holes we need to plug are, in my opinion, left-back, and some real creativity in midfield.

With that being the case i'd be hoping to find opportunities for Greg Cunningham, Enda Stevens, Connor Ronan & Liam Kelly to come into the squad. As someone said above we will probably have to give a lot of players a chance to sink or swim. I think I'd rather invest time is guys who are under 25. I don't know about giving up on the Euros as someone suggested above, but the new players we bring in I would prefer to give the chances to people who will stilll be around for the 2022 World Cup.

[tricky_colour]

Christie should have been where Arter was he is left back after all and used to that situation, After should have been central, his usual position. And it goes without saying Christie should not have been on the post. But still, 5-1, 4-1, it is still game over.

[tricky_colour]

Was always going to be difficult when we failed to get an away goal, if they get one we need too, which is about our max, indeed our max against
a none bottom 3 side is pretty much one.

I think what really undone us was scoring early on, I guess were got crazy thoughts into our heads such as "we can actually play a bit".

Had we not scored we might have ground out a 0-0 draw to take it to penalties, our only realistic chance, the problem there is
parking the bus for 120 minutes, a tall order with 20% possession, we are dead on our feet after 90 minutes of chasing.

Once we scored they lost all fear of us scoring, they had to play football, they could not be defensive as they were at home, fearing
the away goal.

So.... they start playing football and realised we can't - game over.

To be fair though we did have a few chances which might have gone in, McClean and Murphy iirc.

We struggle when we have top play football are opposed to defend as we have no real experience of doing it, we basically
only have one player who is comfortable with the ball at his feet, it is either hoof it up field for the defenders or head down
and a mad goal bound scramble for the forwards. Passing it around is not really an option as 2 passes is about our max
possession length.

But give credit to Denmark, they are a decent side and they can play football when they want to, I think they will do
well in the Russia, the are on a good run, 19th on Fifa rankings, up 7. Unbeaten in their last 10 game, I think their
100-1 for the the world cup is generous, I expect they will get out of their group, and then who knows?

[backstothewall]

He also has no coaching experience. If he wants to get into that side of things, let him do it at club level somewhere,and see how he gets on, let's not give him a job in the national team on the basis of his playing career: a mistake we've made before.

If he wants to be involved with management for his country I'd be delighted for the FAI to facilitate him to start with an underage side

[Olé Olé]

Don't know where my opinion is going to fall with Ward. He was extremely culpable for two of the Danish goals the other night. However, he's been quite good the rest of the campaign. Some on this thread are absolutely castigating him now.

Personally, I appreciate how good he has been in this campaign, aside from the Denmark match. But maybe there's no harm in looking at Matt Doherty and Greg Cunningham as younger alternatives to 32 year-old Ward. Enda Stevens too maybe, but he needs to show over a more prolonged period than 4 months.

I also think that that trio could do with demonstrating their comfortable at a level above. I think it's a race to the PL between them and that will see them staking the claim for Ireland. Otherwise, it's hard to differentiate.

One not to be ruled out is Derrick Williams. He was Blackburn's player of the year and is supposed to be in flying form in L1. Might have the the tools to climb the ladder. As might Kevin O'Connor.

As I said, I think the race to the PL is on. Doherty (primarily a RB this season, plenty experience at LB) and Enda Stevens are sitting pretty at the top of the Championship so they are in pole position.

[bennocelt]

You have a crystal ball into the future?
Monosyllable and dull?
Robbie Keane is one of the most diplomatic speakers I have ever seen. Never gets himself in trouble with the words he speaks.
And the man knows a bit about football wouldn't you say.

You think Keane is insightful, i dont. i think he is like a lot of footballers, a bit dim. If he turns out to be the new Alex Ferguson I dont mind holding my hands up. But I highly doubt it.

By the way: Here is a good article on a new manager who is doing great things in Sweden.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41902664

[bennocelt]

But give credit to Denmark, they are a decent side and they can play football when they want to, I think they will do
well in the Russia, the are on a good run, 19th on Fifa rankings, up 7. Unbeaten in their last 10 game, I think their
100-1 for the the world cup is generous, I expect they will get out of their group, and then who knows?

Dont know Tricky, with Peru getting through tonight, Denmark are third seeds so it will be hard for them.

[brine3]

If he wants to be involved with management for his country I'd be delighted for the FAI to facilitate him to start with an underage side

Why? Let him prove himself somewhere else first. We need our underage sides coached by qualified people.

[backstothewall]

Why? Let him prove himself somewhere else first. We need our underage sides coached by qualified people.

Several reasons

1. Because every kid in Ireland knows who he is. That inspiration factor has a short short life while he is still in the mind of kids who weren't even born at the start of his career
2. Because he is qualified https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/robbie-keane-delighted-to-complete-uefa-a-coaching-licence-34346860.html
3. Because he knows more about scoring goals than anyone else available to us. If a kid picked up just some of that magic from him. If we produced someone who went on the score half as many goals as he did it would be incredible for us.

[jbyrne]

3. Because he knows more about scoring goals than anyone else available to us. If a kid picked up just some of that magic from him. If we produced someone who went on the score half as many goals as he did it would be incredible for us.

agree with this. the rugby lads have a coach for every skill in the game so why not give Robbie the role of purely working with the strikers?

[Stuttgart88]

I think we have a lot to feel confident about. We have problems for sure but we also have the opportunity of a full year without an important fixture to bring in new players and try to plug the gaps in the squad

We have options in goal, but realistically it will come down to who is playing at a decent level by the time we play a qualifier for the Euros. I'd like the back 4 of Coleman, Duffy, Clark, Brady to be carved in stone by then.

I think we can expect the following from those in or around the current squad to be available until the next Euros

Randolph
Elliott

Christie
Coleman
Doherty
Clark
Duffy
Long
Egan
Brady

Horgan
Hendrick
Hourihane
Meyler
Arter
O'Kane
McClean
O'Dowda

Long
Hogan
Maguire
O'Brien

Will Keane is also possibly going to be added to that list.

The holes we need to plug are, in my opinion, left-back, and some real creativity in midfield.

With that being the case i'd be hoping to find opportunities for Greg Cunningham, Enda Stevens, Connor Ronan & Liam Kelly to come into the squad. As someone said above we will probably have to give a lot of players a chance to sink or swim. I think I'd rather invest time is guys who are under 25. I don't know about giving up on the Euros as someone suggested above, but the new players we bring in I would prefer to give the chances to people who will stilll be around for the 2022 World Cup.and added this and Ole Ole's suggestions I'd say Rice, Cullen, Lenihan and Browne would be in the mix.

I know he's no superstar but I like O'Kane. He does what few others do - seeks to actually get on the ball and do something with it.

[MeathDrog]

agree with this. the rugby lads have a coach for every skill in the game so why not give Robbie the role of purely working with the strikers?
Must not have many coaches then.

[Kingdom]

Are you referring to McClean? He's physical, tenacious and impassioned, but a "genuine scumbag"? No way. I can't agree with that at all.

Allen's head injury was caused either by clashing into the oncoming Meyler or by banging his head off the ground when he fell. McClean budged into Allen, but he did not directly cause that injury.

Poulsen clashed into the oncoming Ward after a fair shoulder from James. Are you saying James intentionally shoved Poulsen into Ward's elbow in the hope of injuring Poulsen? Things were moving quickly and I don't think you can accuse James of knowing that his attempt to budge Poulsen off the ball would result in Poulsen injuring himself off Ward. I'm pretty certain the ref stopped play because the player was down injured rather than to give a free-kick, because I'm not sure there was actually a foul there.

There wasn't a huge deal in the Bendtner tackle that gave away the penalty. It was in the 90th minute, James was physically tired (and obviously mentally drained too) after having chased back over half the pitch whilst we were already losing heavily. It was little more than a clumsy trip in an attempt to prevent a shot; it was hardly a "scumbag" attempt to injure the Dane.

I don't recall the Sisto incident. What happened there?

Yeah I am referring to him.

You're a super poster around here, probably the most in-depth and one I've oodles of respect for. I'm going to suggest that your personal knowledge of James and that he's a Derry boy is blinding you to the obvious.

Hand-on-heart, I'm not referring to him the person, as a scumbag, but him the footballer.

Everytime I see him make a tackle it looks to me that he's trying to do the opponent.

The Sisto incident, he lost the ball in the tackle and kicked out at sisto's standing leg, sisto. This was around 70 odd minutes.
I cannot agree with your argument for any of the above. He rakes his studs down the back of Bendtners lower-lower leg. He's trying to do him.

[paul_oshea]

Its all been said pretty much after people have read the papers, but here is something I prepared early yesterday morning before departing for America.

Watching ireland reminds me of watching roscommon. We flatter to deceive and only a mistake or two away from a hiding.
MON never had us playing football, so when we needed to we had no idea how to keep shape and what to do. Again ye wouldnt have seen thus on the tele, not having a go, but an individual mistake of a full back on the wings well away from the box shouldnt result in a goal, but how we lost shape and space opened up was just phenomenal, no one knew where to go or who to mark. There was so much space in behind and we all got drawn to one side of the pitch twice because of an individual players mistake. The ward one was iromic in that he trjed to play instead of hoofing, perhaps being beside mon he actually shouted instructions to do so, but even that mistake shouldnt result in a goal, if a team is used to losing possesion theyll know where to pick up and where to cover the space. We had absoloutely no idea, and denmark had one man who can pick the string in the net he wants to hit. Christie covering was said already by backstothewall I think had he come up the whole danger was averted but that's easy say in hindsight, so on reflection I am not sure he can be blamed too much. At the end of the day since trap came in we've unlearned how to play football and it comes baxk to bite us every so often with a wallop. We need to start playing football and getting used to making mistakes and recovering from them. Mon has shown he isnt the man to do that, forgetting about the terrible tactics and substitutions last night, and thats whats important.

To sum up, luck played a part in a few of our performances, but we were totally disorganised, the individual mistakes would be rectified if we played a more possession game as we would know what to do when pulled a part. We have no idea how to counteract the man losing possession because we never play with, we are used to just lying deep and always having another man in behind if the first line is broken - that's not how possession football works. Whilst Wards mistake was massive, and I disagree with a lot of people saying Christie was good and his positioning generally decent, had we trained and played with possession more often we wouldn't get pulled left, right and centre. Its exactly the same as happened 1.5 years ago against Belgium and O'Neill never thought we needed to change. Certain types of teams will always be able to do that to you if you don't or aren't used to playing with the ball.

Its really annoying because although yes we could have lost 1-2 or even drawn 2-2(I really felt we would get a second even if he made no halftime substitutions) bar a couple of individual mistakes we weren't that far off and Denmark certainly aren't that good.

Wales probably looking on thinking we could have taken Denmark, and I'd agree too.

[tricky_colour]

Dont know Tricky, with Peru getting through tonight, Denmark are third seeds so it will be hard for them.

We shall see.

Poland is in pot 1, they beat them 4-0 and 6-3 (combing home and away games).

We shall see though, I'd say they have as good a chance as anyone making it to the second round provided Eriksen is playing.

[DannyInvincible]

Yeah I am referring to him.

You're a super poster around here, probably the most in-depth and one I've oodles of respect for. I'm going to suggest that your personal knowledge of James and that he's a Derry boy is blinding you to the obvious.

Hand-on-heart, I'm not referring to him the person, as a scumbag, but him the footballer.

Everytime I see him make a tackle it looks to me that he's trying to do the opponent.

The Sisto incident, he lost the ball in the tackle and kicked out at sisto's standing leg, sisto. This was around 70 odd minutes.
I cannot agree with your argument for any of the above. He rakes his studs down the back of Bendtners lower-lower leg. He's trying to do him.

I appreciate the words and the respect is mutual, which is why I'm so surprised you've got this one so wrong. :p

In seriousness, I admittedly do have a soft spot for James. I think he has a great heart and what might come across as recklessness or an intent to do damage to others, I see as a raw passion, tenacity and desire to physically get stuck in and show opponents who's boss. He's not a finesse player and his footballing education didn't come through an academy where the more physical side of a player's game might be discouraged or suppressed. I think, at worst, he can be rash and hot-headed - he undoubtedly bullies opponents and can get frustrated or swept up in the heat of the moment - but I don't think that equates to premeditation or a malicious intent to cause injury to other players. I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

With the Allen and Poulsen incidents, there would have been no injury to either of those players had Meyler and Ward not been involved. James can't be responsible for their involvement/positioning which is ultimately what did the damage (unintentionally) in both cases. James' involvement was contributory, but indirect. If James is going to be accused of intending to cause injury in those incidents, you'd also have to accuse Meyler and Ward of the same.

[KrisLetang]

Its all been said pretty much after people have read the papers, but here is something I prepared early yesterday morning before departing for America.


Please tell me you're coming to interview for the US managers job.

[tricky_colour]

It was something that Eriksen’s predecessor Brian Laudrup also told the Independent after the game in Dublin, as he expressed disbelief that Martin O’Neill gave him “the freedom of the pitch” in the second half.

You just can’t allow that with someone his manager is already describing as “one of the 10 best players in the world”.

Notably, neither Eriksen himself nor Bendtner would quite go that far.

“For me, he is a fantastic player, but can you compare him to the greatest in the game?” the former Arsenal player said. “It is about making that special moment happen and he is doing that more and more. That is what takes you to the next level.



http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/christian-eriksen-denmark-tottenham-hotspur-crowning-performance-2018-world-cup-a8057286.html

I guess to be fair to Martin he did face the slight problem of needing 2 goals at that point and we were gonna lose whatever.

[tetsujin1979]

Stayed off forum for a few days to work through the Kubler-Ross stages of grief, survive a man cold and finally gather my thoughts

First of all some positives
Ireland were the lowest seeded team from the group stages to reach the play offs, and the only fourth seed to do so
We went through the qualifying campaign unbeaten away from home
The average age of the squad has dropped from 30.2 at the Euros last year to 28.5 for the play off squad - a minor change, and the retirement of Robbie Keane accounts for a lot of it, but still a positive
The squad is currently ranked 26th in the world
Beating Austria away from home was the first away win against higher ranked opposition in a qualifier since 1997 against Lithuania
Martin O'Neill is the first Irish manager to win two away qualifiers against higher ranked opposition since the ranking system was introduced in 1993
O'Neill now has five wins against higher ranked opponents (Germany, Bosnia, Italy, Austria and Wales). Every other Irish manager combined has six
In three away games against our main group rivals Wales, Austria and Serbia, we took seven points from a possible nine

And now, the inevitable negatives
We didn't score anywhere near enough goals across the campaign, especially at home. Only two players scored more than once in the qualifiers. Counting Duffy's goal in the play offs brings the list to three.
We were the lowest scoring team to qualify for the play offs. 12 goals in 10 games. Croatia are next on 15 goals. Slovakia missed out despite scoring 17 times
The effects of Coleman's injury, on the player himself, on the result of the Wales game, and on the rest of the qualifiers cannot be underestimated
In three consecutive home games against our main group rivals Wales, Austria and Serbia, we took two points from a possible nine
Taking off two central midfielders, to bring on two attacking/creative players, when facing one of the best attacking central midfielders in the Premier League, is a criminal change. Whatever about training or tactics, I really want to hear Martin O'Neill's explanation behind that change
While there has been no formal announcements yet, the end of a qualifying campaign brings with it player retirements. At the moment there's no obvious replacements for the expected retirees

And some observances
Whatever preparation the management team does, or doesn't do, it worked against Wales and didn't against Denmark
Journalists complaining about players not speaking to them after the game need to get over themselves. Players have Twitter, Instagram and Facebook accounts to issue statements after games
The group itself was poor. None of the top four sides overly impressed. Serbia topped the group with the lowest points total of the UEFA group winners
Despite the "tinkerman" style accusations, the starting XI is pretty settled IMO. Nine players started seven or more of the ten qualifiers

[Stuttgart88]

Is observance a word?

[Stuttgart88]

Any stattos out there with MON's results with and without the so called diamond?

[Treaty Gooner]

Lads, I don't know about the diamond, it just looked alike a wonky 4-3-3 with McClean doing two jobs

[paul_oshea]

Whatever preparation the management team does, or doesn't do, it worked against Wales and didn't against Denmark

It did work - against Denmark away. I think its been covered here numerous times in the past not just recently, that we only have one tactic and one game plan. It works away from home, because we always just sit back and never lose our shape because we always have a man in behind or ready to run behind another to cover the space. We are experts. Sadly we practiced nothing else, and played nothing else.

And why this? Because O'Neill has this stupid policy of draw away win at home, it backfired on several occasions throughout both campaigns, and then we pulled it out of the fire with strokes of luck, bad misses, oneills , die hard defending and crowding out. We should play the same at all times, but have a backup that we can revert to and experienced in when needs must.

You've mixed in opinion with facts but generally agree with everything you've said above tets.