PCA League Proposal

[Philosophizer]

Headline is a bit misleading. I presumed that the FAI were meeting with representatives of all the league clubs from the headline. But it's revealed later in the piece that
"Barrister Michael Cush is due to meet the FAI on Monday on the PCA’s behalf. But as frustration with the FAI grows, he will now be accompanied by a three-man PCA delegation led by Shamrock Rovers secretary Noel Byrne."

So, it's still just the PCA, which probably isn't even equally representative of the premier div clubs.

[pineapple stu]

In fairness, the point of a union is that all clubs don't need to be directly represented. The fewer in there the better, I would say. Clubs would only start a row with each other if they were all in, which would be embarrassing.

[Mr A]

Can see why clubs would want someone in the room given what has gone on recently at the same time. How did inconclusive vote morph into 'recommendation from PCA'. Bound to be suspicions that not everyone has been playing it straight.

[Charlie Darwin]

How did inconclusive vote morph into 'recommendation from PCA'.
Two words: the FAI.

[Philosophizer]

Ideally it would just be Michael Cush acting as a representative of all the clubs, a league clubs alliance, rather than just a premier clubs alliance.

[Mr A]

Ideally it would just be Michael Cush acting as a representative of all the clubs, a league clubs alliance, rather than just a premier clubs alliance.

Exactly. The sooner all clubs realise that they all need each other to have a league the better. In recent years the league has lost (although in most cases regained) Kildare, Cork, Derry, Galway, Cobh, Fingal and Monaghan. Many more went very close to going under. Clearly the model isn't working and we need to work together towards better sustainability. An association that excludes 40% of clubs isn't going to fix it. A governing body that is willing to make major change on foot of a slim majority of that association is also unlikely to fix things. The clubs need to start working together and speaking with one voice where possible, and the FAI needs to start actually listening.

[Dodge]

There is nothing to stop clubs working together now. They are incapable of doing so. If clubs could work together they wouldn't have needed the FAI to take over the league 10 years ago

Unfortunately the people in power at the FAI don't care about the league, but the idea of a centrally run 'top down' hierarchy isn't the problem

[oriel]

A 16 team Premier Div was always my preference, keep it simple, home and away equal for all teams, 30 matches per season. Play offs to be introduced for sure for relegation to keep it competitive and possibly for the final Euro spot, but with a big incentive for the side that finishes highest, maybe they go straight into the final or at least have home advantage.

Where the relegated club(s) go to is the problem though, regional leagues maybe, but what is the best way to run that ? Also there would be teams dropping out in this process initially if this system ever kicked off, where would they go, regional leagues straight away? Plus all of those play a different season, could be messy.

[pineapple stu]

I think the PCA document answers pretty much all those issues?

Seasons have to merge of course. The summer soccer switch may have benefitted clubs in Europe, but it was typically short-sighted overall. I think it's the first issue that needs to be resolved here.

Won't be easy of course, but I think it has to happen.

[disgruntled]

I think the PCA document answers pretty much all those issues?

Seasons have to merge of course. The summer soccer switch may have benefitted clubs in Europe, but it was typically short-sighted overall. I think it's the first issue that needs to be resolved here.

Won't be easy of course, but I think it has to happen.

Surely you're not suggesting we go back to a Winter season or do you have something else in mind ?

[pineapple stu]

The only other option seems to switch non-league to a summer season.

It's daft having the split season structure we have at present.

[outspoken]

We have to stick with summer football. Just look at the weather we are having right now in January, the season would drag on forever. Make the regional leagues get into line.

[pineapple stu]

The weather's lovely where I am.

In fact, the whole winter's been quite good.

Regardless, the idea to cause a divide in seasons in Irish football can only be described as short-sighted and needs to be fixed. Whether that's all summer or all winter I think is actually less important than fixing the divide and starting to grow the LoI again.

[disgruntled]

The only other option seems to switch non-league to a summer season.

It's daft having the split season structure we have at present.


The weather's lovely where I am.

In fact, the whole winter's been quite good.

Regardless, the idea to cause a divide in seasons in Irish football can only be described as short-sighted and needs to be fixed. Whether that's all summer or all winter I think is actually less important than fixing the divide and starting to grow the LoI again.

Agreed.
Getting everyone playing in the same season would be a good start to sorting out some of the problems.
Of course there are more deep seated problems which have nothing at all to do with what season we play in.

[pineapple stu]

I agree.

Which is why I think the PCA document - which looks at a lot of different issues - is a better document than Conroy or Gabay.

[nigel-harps1954]

Weather argument is total nonsense. We have plenty of games called off due to waterlogged pitches during out summer season as it is. We just had a really mild winter and the league up the north was relatively unaffected by the winter climate.

While I actually prefer winter football myself, I don't think changing back is necessarily going to fix any issues.

Personally, I do believe more clubs would be willing to step up to a regionalised First Division North/South. Fanad United were willing to step up to First Division a few years ago when they believed it was going to be split North/South for example. They decided against it when that plan didn't go through. If you could guarantee less travel and less expenditure in a North/South First Division, you could almost guarantee the likes of Monaghan/Cavan, Kerry, Mayo and possibly one or two others to speed up their plans for progression to senior LOI sides.

16 team Premier and 8 in each Division One North/South is not totally out of reach in my opinion, but it needs serious thought and not to be rushed through by the FAI. The participation fees need to be relaxed for a couple of years to encourage clubs to enter too.

[gufcfan]

We have to stick with summer football. Just look at the weather we are having right now in January, the season would drag on forever. Make the regional leagues get into line.

Winter football is daft. My local club only has 2 games left in their season.

They're playing in small divisions with few games to counteract the effects of the weather through much of what should be the season.

The youth leagues are even worse. During the "season" some youth teams have a max of 2 league games a month, sometimes one and even none sometimes.

You'd want to be a world-beater to develop in that environment.

[nigel-harps1954]

Winter football is daft. My local club only has 2 games left in their season.

They're playing in small divisions with few games to counteract the effects of the weather through much of what should be the season.

The youth leagues are even worse. During the "season" some youth teams have a max of 2 league games a month, sometimes one and even none sometimes.

You'd want to be a world-beater to develop in that environment.

You can hardly compare youth and local league football to the LOI though? That's really daft.

[gufcfan]

You can hardly compare youth and local league football to the LOI though? That's really daft.

I'm saying that in addition to the fact that all football should be played concurrently with the LOI, that weather affects football at all levels and that junior/juvenile football shouldn't be played in the winter.

Teams can go months without games during the winter.

If you wanted to devise a setup that was any worse conditions wise, it would be difficult.

[bluewhitearmy]

Weather argument is total nonsense. We have plenty of games called off due to waterlogged pitches during out summer season as it is. We just had a really mild winter and the league up the north was relatively unaffected by the winter climate.

While I actually prefer winter football myself, I don't think changing back is necessarily going to fix any issues.

Personally, I do believe more clubs would be willing to step up to a regionalised First Division North/South. Fanad United were willing to step up to First Division a few years ago when they believed it was going to be split North/South for example. They decided against it when that plan didn't go through. If you could guarantee less travel and less expenditure in a North/South First Division, you could almost guarantee the likes of Monaghan/Cavan, Kerry, Mayo and possibly one or two others to speed up their plans for progression to senior LOI sides.

16 team Premier and 8 in each Division One North/South is not totally out of reach in my opinion, but it needs serious thought and not to be rushed through by the FAI. The participation fees need to be relaxed for a couple of years to encourage clubs to enter too.

It might be just me but I can't remember many games that have been called off due to waterlogged pitches in the summer season at all, I remember a few with Harps pitch already but not too many more off the top of my head.

Do as many as the 3 mentioned actually have plans to progress to become senior LOI sides to speed up really? I've heard that Monaghan/Cavan thing alright but I haven't heard of Kerry or Mayo having any plans to join the LOI.

[pineapple stu]

Tralee did apply to join a few years back, but were turned down. Same time as Cobh were turned down. So it's not inconceivable they'd be interested still.

[bluewhitearmy]

Tralee did apply to join a few years back, but were turned down. Same time as Cobh were turned down. So it's not inconceivable they'd be interested still.

Not inconceivable no but not exactly almost guaranteed either. As far as I know Kerry found it difficult to either get or keep a 19s team going can't remember which it was but doesn't exactly scream somewhere that is ready to jump into LOI.

[nigel-harps1954]

Kerry League are in the under-17 league already aren't they? Presumably they see a long term senior team there. Mayo League announced plans to have a league of Ireland team by 2020 in Milebush Park a year or two ago. Monaghan/Cavan are stepping up to under-19 this season with a view to senior team in a few years too.

[bluewhitearmy]

Kerry League are in the under-17 league already aren't they? Presumably they see a long term senior team there. Mayo League announced plans to have a league of Ireland team by 2020 in Milebush Park a year or two ago. Monaghan/Cavan are stepping up to under-19 this season with a view to senior team in a few years too.

Sorry 17s it is so. I know from a conversation I had with someone that they were trying to convince Kerry to keep the team they had in cos they were struggling to keep it going not sure if its been sorted or not. I know structure isn't the main things that need sorting or anything like I just think some not all are throwing out the 16 with regional leagues without putting thought into what it would actually take with regard new clubs and alligning seasons.

[Charlie Darwin]

The only other option seems to switch non-league to a summer season.
So the only other option is for non-league to get some common sense and actually play the game at a sensible time of year?

[Charlie Darwin]

Weather argument is total nonsense. We have plenty of games called off due to waterlogged pitches during out summer season as it is.
This year I believe it was two. Both in Donegal.

[nigel-harps1954]

This year I believe it was two. Both in Donegal.

I did say 'we'...

[outspoken]

We had a home game with Bray called off, Sligo had a couple called off too.

[pineapple stu]

So the only other option is for non-league to get some common sense and actually play the game at a sensible time of year?
I don't think you can call it "sensible" quite as easy as that. The USL went for summer soccer for a while and I think they've since reverted back. They were losing too many players to summer holidays. The DDSL i think have changed, so it looks like the FAI want to keep pushing it that way.

The important thing i think is to align the seasons. Probably summer is better alright, but there's a lot to be worked out.

And I still think that we're even having this discussion means the original decision to change season was a very short sighted one.

[nigel-harps1954]

The USL weren't losing players to summer holidays. They were losing players to Donegal League mid season.

[EatYerGreens]

Fanad United were willing to step up to First Division a few years ago when they believed it was going to be split North/South for example. They decided against it when that plan didn't go through.

I'd argue that Fanad United would add nothing to the LOI, except helping to make up the numbers.

They're a small parish in an isolated rural location, whilst football is largely an urban phenomena. If anywhere in Donegal got added to the League, it should be somewhere like Letterkenny - with the population to sustain a team, and potentially prosper.

I hope the days of the FAI biting the hand off any club that fancies joining the LOI are over. Under the current system, if they haven't got the core ingredients likely to make a club succeed then they shouldn't be let in IMO. Otherwise it just tees up further drop-outs in the future. If we ever move to a proper pyramid system, then that would of course be a different matter.

[Charlie Darwin]

I did say 'we'...
Exactly. So for the sake of the league Harps should move inland.

[nigel-harps1954]

I'd argue that Fanad United would add nothing to the LOI, except helping to make up the numbers.

They're a small parish in an isolated rural location, whilst football is largely an urban phenomena. If anywhere in Donegal got added to the League, it should be somewhere like Letterkenny - with the population to sustain a team, and potentially prosper.

I hope the days of the FAI biting the hand off any club that fancies joining the LOI are over. Under the current system, if they haven't got the core ingredients likely to make a club succeed then they shouldn't be let in IMO. Otherwise it just tees up further drop-outs in the future. If we ever move to a proper pyramid system, then that would of course be a different matter.

Letterkenny Rovers joining the League of Ireland would be the end of Finn Harps. Harps rely heavily on support from Letterkenny. Besides, Letterkenny Rovers are largely despised within Letterkenny itself and would likely draw little support. They have tried to join the league several times to the best of my knowledge and been shot down each time due to proximity to Finn Harps.

Fanad United being isolated and rural would have no bearing. They're almost an hour and a half from any LOI ground. Fanad United are a relatively well supported team in their area too and have a decent setup. They're far from the answer to problems, but they'd be no worse off in the league than Cabinteely, Mervue, Kildare or any other poorly supported team over the past 20 years.

[nigel-harps1954]

Exactly. So for the sake of the league Harps should move inland.

Inland, like, more than 30km from the coast?

[EatYerGreens]

Fanad United being isolated and rural would have no bearing. They're almost an hour and a half from any LOI ground. Fanad United are a relatively well supported team in their area too and have a decent setup. They're far from the answer to problems, but they'd be no worse off in the league than Cabinteely, Mervue, Kildare or any other poorly supported team over the past 20 years.

That's exactly my point. They'd be no better than other teams who joined and then dropped out of the league (I have no doubt that it's only a matter of time before Cabo joins that list too).

[Charlie Darwin]

Inland, like, more than 30km from the coast?
If it's not too much trouble, yes. Thanks for being so co-operative.

[Real ale Madrid]

If it's not too much trouble, yes. Thanks for being so co-operative.

So you want them to stay where they are now?

[Charlie Darwin]

MORE than

[pateen]

Any know where to get updates from todays meeting?

[Martinho II]

The USL weren't losing players to summer holidays. They were losing players to Donegal League mid season.

the USL Nigel is that an unofficial Donegal league or what?

[nigel-harps1954]

the USL Nigel is that an unofficial Donegal league or what?

No, the Ulster Senior League. Same as Munster and Leinster Senior Leagues. One of three leagues in the county with Donegal and Inishowen Leagues.

It combines both Donegal and Inishowen sides and some sort of non-EU side.

[Martinho II]

No, the Ulster Senior League. Same as Munster and Leinster Senior Leagues. One of three leagues in the county with Donegal and Inishowen Leagues.

It combines both Donegal and Inishowen sides and some sort of non-EU side.

ah right. I must be thinkin of Connacht Senior League so that doenst exist!

[KBurke]

Any one have any word on the meeting between the PCA and the FAI yesterday? Did it go ahead?

[pateen]

Throught there might be some news on this today. Anyone hear anything

[Mr A]

Not a thing. Not the most transparent of organisations.

[bennocelt]

Letterkenny Rovers joining the League of Ireland would be the end of Finn Harps. Harps rely heavily on support from Letterkenny. Besides, Letterkenny Rovers are largely despised within Letterkenny itself and would likely draw little support. They have tried to join the league several times to the best of my knowledge and been shot down each time due to proximity to Finn Harps.
.

Why is that Nigel?

[outspoken]

Why is that Nigel?

Sounds a bit like Longford 😂

[Longfordian]

Yes we actually hate Letterkenny more than Athlone

[nigel-harps1954]

Why is that Nigel?

Politics mostly. Despised might be a little harsh. But they're generally not very well liked around the county. They've a long history of taking players of various junior clubs and even senior clubs and offering big money to play USL. They have a few politicians backing them, and they have just p!ssed off a lot of people over the years.

Personally, I've no real opinion one way or the other on them. Their payments to players have been a bit annoying over the years and taking a lot of decent players off Harps in the process but from time to time I find myself watching their games since they're so close to my house.

[gufc2000]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/441862/monaghan-united-could-rise-from-the-ashes-and-rejoin-the-league-of-ireland/?CMP=spklr-_-default-_-FBPAGE-_-TheIrishSunSport-_-20170117-_-779809489

No time frame but good to see that there's a possibility Monaghan might rejoin in the future