Republic of Ireland V Netherlands 27th May 2016 & Belarus 31st May 2016 Friendlies

[SkStu]

I find it quite amusing that the same people throwing Murphy the most vitriolic abuse are demanding for O'Dowda's call up. (Not on this forum)

I mean come on. Murphy was ****e but he hasn't played in two and a half months. O'Dowda has played 15 minutes against a team that lost 0-3 to NI.

Smacks of needing a new cause c'elebre after Arter's unfortunate injury.

I know it's not aimed at me but I'd be more interested in Murphy staying at home instead of taking O'Dowda. That said I'd be absolutely fine with O'Dowda was called up.

[nigel-harps1954]

That was brutal. Let's just blame Cork.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Kilbane thinks Duffy and O'Shea should be starting.

[tricky_colour]

And we need him more than want him
And we want him for all time.
Because the 18 yard goal line man
Is still on the line.

[tricky_colour]

Not a bad result, remember Germany lost to Slovakia by a similar margin, as I would well know as I am still spending the money :)

[tricky_colour]

Psychologically this a good result, going into Euro 2016 the other teams in our group will think we are shyte.

Boy are they in for a shock!

[tetsujin1979]

Squad posts move to Euro 2016 thread

[backstothewall]

Perhaps Westwood stayed on the bench because O'Neill decided on him in the playoffs and he's trying to decide between Given and Forde for 3rd goalie. That's speculation but we will find out before bedtime. Even if that's not the case neither of them are likely to play. In all likelihood tonight was the final cap for Given and Forde

Aww snap. I love it when I'm right!

[tricky_colour]

Shocking midfield Belarus went through it like a bad curry.

[paul_oshea]

Keane is interesting what he is saying about players, and he means murphy in a big bit. So why did they pick him then? Why leave someone like Doyle out? Doyle has a great first touch and ball control. Murphy doesnt regardless of how many games he plays.

He was right to put it up to them "the glenn whelans, the jon walters, the seamus colemans" - "none of them had to be told, strange isn it"

[SkStu]

He was right to put it up to them "the glenn whelans, the jon walters, the seamus colemans" - "none of them had to be told, strange isn it"

whats this quote referring to Paul? Who to who about whom and what? When? (throw in how, when and where too)

[geysir]

What about the why?

[tricky_colour]

Keane is interesting what he is saying about players, and he means murphy in a big bit. So why did they pick him then? Why leave someone like Doyle out? Doyle has a great first touch and ball control. Murphy doesnt regardless of how many games he plays.

He was right to put it up to them "the glenn whelans, the jon walters, the seamus colemans" - "none of them had to be told, strange isn it"


Not a big fan of Doyle regarding goal scoring but he is a million miles better than Murphy, indeed in comparison I am a big fan.

[SkStu]

What about the why?

why not?

[jbyrne]

Not a big fan of Doyle regarding goal scoring but he is a million miles better than Murphy, indeed in comparison I am a big fan.

14 goals in 60 odd appearances is still decent enough give the role he has generally performed for us alongside Robbie keane.
his time on the pitch against Switzerland alone showed far more than I have seen from murphy and he should have been given another opportunity to push his case over the last two friendlies

[pineapple stu]

My father is after telling me Brendan odowda was a well known baritone singer
He was a tenor, not a baritone.

His Percy French albums are excellent; well worth getting.

[paul_oshea]

whats this quote referring to Paul? Who to who about whom and what? When? (throw in how, when and where too)

Basically keane was asked about players performances last night, and he was saying regardless of match fitness or gametime you should still be controlling the ball, and passing to a mate, there is no excuse for not being able to do that. He also name dropped the above as always really going in training, whereas he was suggesting these other lads need to buck up and cop on in training and in general if they want to be near the first 11.

It was well orchestrated from keano, gave them the needed kick in the @rse but at the sametime, said lets move on forget about the results - not those invidiual players performances - and the squad needs to refocus now.

[backstothewall]

I'd have done the same as Martin O'Neill on the Murphy/Doyle/McGoldrick decision.

Doyle has been a fantastic servant but to me he looks a good bit older than 32 when i've seen him play. We can afford one player who will only be an option for 20 mins off the bench when we are after a goal but that has to be Keane.

[DannyInvincible]

Basically keane was asked about players performances last night, and he was saying regardless of match fitness or gametime you should still be controlling the ball, and passing to a mate, there is no excuse for not being able to do that. He also name dropped the above as always really going in training, whereas he was suggesting these other lads need to buck up and cop on in training and in general if they want to be near the first 11.

It was well orchestrated from keano, gave them the needed kick in the @rse but at the sametime, said lets move on forget about the results - not those invidiual players performances - and the squad needs to refocus now.

Balls.ie have compiled tweets featuring various quotes from Roy here: http://www.balls.ie/football/roy-keane-aiden-mcgeady/335054


Roy in box office mode today. Asked did they need to push players harder "we wanted to kill some of them last night"


Roy on Aiden McGeady: "I think he can do a lot better than last night, but maybe that's the story of Aiden's career" #OnOurWay


Keane on Belarus performance: "A reality check for one or two players who thought they were good players"


"You can tell" says Keane when it's mentioned to him that Murphy & Hendrick haven't played much lately with their clubs


Roy not happy with last night: "Your playing international football, control the bloody ball. Run back, control it and pass it to your mate"

[SkStu]

spot on Keano.

[geysir]

spot on Keano.
Shocking management as well, to send out a team so ill prepared and failing miserably against canon fodder.
I hope it was a reality check for those who thought they could manage a team to be tactically sound and ready to compete at the Euros.:rolleyes:

[IsMiseSean]

14 goals in 60 odd appearances is still decent enough give the role he has generally performed for us alongside Robbie keane.
his time on the pitch against Switzerland alone showed far more than I have seen from murphy and he should have been given another opportunity to push his case over the last two friendlies

Why did Doyle wait with Colorado for their game on Saturday night therefore missing the chance to play against Holland?
But yet Keane left LA and would have been available for selection if he didn't get injured, or did Keane leave LA because he was already out of Galaxy's game on the Saturday?

[minivan man]

Sorry to gatecrash this thread lads but would anybody know how i could get a 1/2 and 1/2 scarf from the Holland game last friday. Not a fan of them myself but my son played in the kids game at ht and hoping to locate one as a souvenir any suggestions thanks

[osarusan]

spot on Keano.
Maybe spot on in his observations but as assistant manager he should keep his mouth shut at times like that.

[SkStu]

As assistant manager I think it's fine for him to deliver the managers message to players who let themselves and the rest of the squad down. Players tend to get away with far too much and the managers end up taking the fall. When players are at fault for not performing they need to be called out.

Geysir, if you think they weren't prepared and that this is the fault of the management team then I think you are way off. They've all been in the squads for the most part for this campaign. They all know the system inside and out. Even those that were part time over the last while have been together long enough now to know their roles and responsibilities. I'm not buying it. This is on the players not performing the way they know how.

[jbyrne]

Why did Doyle wait with Colorado for their game on Saturday night therefore missing the chance to play against Holland?

it was an Irish management decision for him to remain with colorado

[osarusan]

As assistant manager I think it's fine for him to deliver the managers message to players who let themselves and the rest of the squad down. Players tend to get away with far too much and the managers end up taking the fall. When players are at fault for not performing they need to be called out.

Deliver the message to them, sure, not to the public. I can't see any positives to Keane going public in the way he did.

What good does it do to say this about McGeady, for example: "I think he can do a lot better than last night, but maybe that's the story of Aiden's career".

[Fixer82]

Deliver the message to them, sure, not to the public. I can't see any positives to Keane going public in the way he did.

What good does it do to say this about McGeady, for example: "I think he can do a lot better than last night, but maybe that's the story of Aiden's career".

Keane knows full well Aiden is going to read/hear that. And he's either going to say 'I'll show him', or else he'll crumble. It's a man's game. Time to stand up and be counted. Keane is looking for a positive reaction. Ball is in Aiden's court now.

[paul_oshea]

Exactly, nothing has worked previously. Only Aiden can get better, and if he doesn't? then its only Aidens problem.

[geysir]

As assistant manager I think it's fine for him to deliver the managers message to players who let themselves and the rest of the squad down. Players tend to get away with far too much and the managers end up taking the fall. When players are at fault for not performing they need to be called out.

Geysir, if you think they weren't prepared and that this is the fault of the management team then I think you are way off. They've all been in the squads for the most part for this campaign. They all know the system inside and out. Even those that were part time over the last while have been together long enough now to know their roles and responsibilities. I'm not buying it. This is on the players not performing the way they know how.
I was clearly being sarcastic, I used a sarcastic smily.

What is the system that everybody know's inside out? I don't know how Ireland are going to play. What are the players supposed to know inside out?
What is the tactical plan?
The management team are being paid a world class fortune to deliver and they have stumbled and stuttered their way through games more times than not, and yes I tend to become sarcastic when Keane publicly blames players for whatever dodgy attitude they might have. He's in management now, not a team captain, and it's his duty to accept his responsibility for failings. Is there any evidence as a manger that his public haranguing of players worked to his team's advantage? Yes I do see a context where a good manager can judiciously use the public forum to make comments about a player, imo Keane does not fit into that mould. No doubt the tabloids are sated by a caustic Keane press conference but the team have fundamentally failed to make evident progress (set pieces apart) to suggest that they are looking at anything but 20th to 24th in the finals.

[Stuttgart88]

The system thing is a fair point. That was a clear 433 on Tuesday which is not what these guys will be used to under O'Neill.

Also, I don't want to put lipstick on a pig, but putting a lot of the second stringers together at once doesn't do any of them any favours as individuals.

That said, even if the system isn't tried and tested, nobody was asked to do a role that didn't suit his strenths. Murphy has the attributes of a traditional 9, and McClean and McGeady ought to love being wide in a 433. Our midfielders Were all given roles that suited them perfectly, and it suits attacking full backs. In principle the system was fine.

For me everything fell down with Murphy being unable to make any impression in the centre forward position. That's the keystone in that formation. The wide players need a target to hit and the midfielders need someone to hold the ball up. Murphy could do neither on the night.

[paul_oshea]

That's spot on stutts.thats one of your finer posts and disassociates the management capabilities and the players abilities which is important when criticising Keane's comments on the players. At the end of the day if they were playing 10 centre backs they should still be able control the ball and hold onto it. They couldn't even do that.

[paul_oshea]

If a chef can't use a cooker.he shouldn't be in the kitchen.

[TrapAPony]

It was alright to take Keane despite the fact he won't be fit until after the Sweden match. However, Arter supposedly has a good chance of being fit before the Sweden game but is omitted. Don't understand why he wasn't named in the squad and if not fit then call up Quinn or Meyler. Not the other way around.

[Olé Olé]

It was alright to take Keane despite the fact he won't be fit until after the Sweden match. However, Arter supposedly has a good chance of being fit before the Sweden game but is omitted. Don't understand why he wasn't named in the squad and if not fit then call up Quinn or Meyler. Not the other way around.

Where did you hear this? Not looking to pull you up on this but I've not seen any indication as to the gravity of his strain/knock.

[DeLorean]

This is Arter's third injury in a matter of weeks. Maybe they felt he's just too big a risk even if he does happen to be fit for the first game. Of course it's also a possibility that they were going to choose Quinn and Meyler ahead of him regardless. It's the press and maybe ourselves that came to the conclusion he was going to make the squad.

[TrapAPony]

Where did you hear this? Not looking to pull you up on this but I've not seen any indication as to the gravity of his strain/knock.

I thought that was what was being said? MON said this, it sounded like there was a possibility he still could be brought in if another player
got injured :

“I think Harry is very much in my thoughts at this minute and who knows, if players don’t come through there is a possibility of things happening at the other end.”

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2016/martin-oneill-reveals-robbie-keane-may-not-be-fit-for-euro-2016-opener-against-sweden-34763165.html

[DannyInvincible]

Nah, I saw that interview with Tony O'Donoghue on RTÉ (at least I think it was the one from their highlights programme) and I didn't get the impression O'Neill was intending to make a conclusive statement with regard to Arter's injury. It was no more than a "you never know what might happen" sort of comment. He might return to fitness and a door might re-open if others get injured or he might not; nothing certain. "In my thoughts"; I took that to mean he was sympathising with him on account of the obvious disappointment he must be feeling.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm pretty sure the interview was in this programme if you want to get a sense of O'Neill's tone and body language: http://www.rte.ie/player/gb/show/international-soccer-friendly-1690/10580129/

Unfortunately, I can't re-watch it again on the RTÉ site due to my location - I was just watching a live stream on this (http://oklivetv.com/rte-2-hd-live/) pretty handy site the other evening - so can't quite give you an exact time for the interview, sorry.

[Stuttgart88]

If a chef can't use a cooker.he shouldn't be in the kitchen.what if he's a sushi chef?

[Stuttgart88]

Even if it's true that Arter's expected recovery period is the same as Keane's I still thinks it's fair to pick Keane but not Arter. Arter will be asked to play a demanding role at a level he's not really used to. Keane will be asked to come off the bench, if he's asked to do anything, realistically if we need a goal and huff and puff isn't working. The fitness requirements are different, the demands on a recently healed injury are different, one is team captain and record goalscorer, the other has 2 caps.

That said, if both were fully fit I'd bet on Arter getting more minutes than Keane?

[DeLorean]

Quite possibly. Keane's probably looking at somewhere between zero and forty minutes, tops. I kind of hope he doesn't see any more than that anyway as it will probably mean we're down 3-0 after twenty minutes or something! Or that Long has got injured.

[jbyrne]

Quite possibly. Keane's probably looking at somewhere between zero and forty minutes, tops. I kind of hope he doesn't see any more than that anyway as it will probably mean we're down 3-0 after twenty minutes or something! Or than Long has got injured.

are we not being a little over the top with the writing off of what keane might contribute?

[DeLorean]

Hopefully he can contribute something, but would you expect him to play any more than that (in the group stages anyway)?

[paul_oshea]

what if he's a sushi chef?

Then his name is ciaran clark.

[Stuttgart88]

I need time to figure that one out...

[osarusan]

what if he's a sushi chef?

It'll take two years training just to learn how to cook the rice.

[paul_oshea]

Thats exactly what i meant :D

Did you not get that Stutts? :rolleyes:

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

If we are going to bring someone who will realistically only be able to play a limited role, surely we should bring Arter rather than Keane?

Arter is an impact player who could provide the same kind of boost off the bench as someone like McClean. It's hard to discern what impact Keane makes judging by any of his substitute appearances. For all the limitations of someone like Murphy, he does serve a purpose. He is stronger than a lot of defender; he tires them and drags them out of position, he competes in the air, he can cause panic stations in the box - Scotland goal (h), penalty Bosnia (h). What does Keane offer any more? Obviously the best goalscorer in Irish history but we need someone who can fulfil a role for the team. We shouldn't be including someone in a motivational/spiritual guidance role; we have the oldest squad in the tournament. What is he going to impart that a 29 year old or 33 year old doesn't already know?

The only chance (I can see) he has of scoring is getting on the end of a panic in the 6 yard box at a set-piece, but we have been doing perfectly good scoring in these situations with the players we have.

Keane whenever he plays looks like he's in the land of the giants. He is easily nullified and marked out of the game by defenders; he doesn't have the pace to neutralise this, or to get into good positions.

We should bring players like Doyle who can fulfil a role for the team and run their hearts out for 90 minutes. If Doyle was on the end of a McGeady cross for the Keogh chance in Warsaw or a McGeady cross for the Murphy chance in Cork, I would bank on him to put it away 9 times out of 10.

Bit concerning hearing about players like Murphy, Walters and Keane struggling for full fitness when they are all playing in the same positions. And Long will be a target for defenders during the tournament so the importance of who is selected in those positions is of tantamount importance.

Some of these players are going to want to play no matter what. I hope MON puts the foot down more than Trapattoni who continuously played Given despite the fact he was clearly unfit during the pre-match warm up against Croatia.

[Stuttgart88]

Is Walters "struggling for full fitness" or did he sit out a day due to a strain?

I regularly have to take a day or two off training but it doesn't mean I'm struggling.

I'd have taken Doyle too, unquestionably.