Euro 2016 Play-Offs - November 13th and 16th

[tricky_colour]

So if we do qualify then we will be in Pot 4 for the EURO 2016 group stages and drawn against 3 teams who are theoretically better than us.

We need to have a better coefficient than 6 other teams there to make Pot 3. We are already 'better' than four N. Ireland, Wales, Iceland and Albania who have all qualified. So we would like Norway and Slovenia to also qualify through their playoff. It might make life a little easier at the tournament proper - but then again with Wales and Iceland in the bottom Pot who knows.

So I want:
Slovenia to beat Hungary
Norway to beat Sweden
Ireland to beat Bosnia
Ukraine to beat Denmark

This gives the other two teams with lower coefficients (Norway and Slovenia) a chance to qualify too and I think we can take Bosnia. And also puts Ukraine in Pot 2 for the potential of an easy draw!

Then in France we have can have a group of England, Ukraine, Ireland, N.Ireland and take it from there!!

I think is current form rather than historic form we should look at even over a year a teams form can change dramitically.

I mean look at Chelsea for example great last year crap this year.

[Fergie's Son]

When is the draw?

[DeLorean]

Sunday morning... 10am-ish.

[DeLorean]

I mean look at Chelsea for example great last year crap this year.

Would still prefer to avoid them though.

[tricky_colour]

I am quite optimistic we will qualify now especially if we avoid Ukraine.

Said before though it is quite likely it will go to penalties?

[tricky_colour]

Would still prefer to avoid them though.

I think we will given than are not eligible for international national competitions!!;)

[edited to make more sense, or not as the case may be!! ;) ]

[DeLorean]

Never thought of that.

[SwanVsDalton]

Ideally Hungary, but I would take anyone other than Ukraine.

[Kingdom]

Quite frankly that's not one of your better posts Kingdom, you are indulging in contrivance.
There was no such thing as playing Germany with no pressure, what planet are you on?

If you think there is the same pressure and expectation playing away to Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, the standard-bearers (usually) of European football, as there is playing Scotland, Austria, Slovakia, or any other of the 20 middling teams in the Eurozone, then it's not me that is on a different planet.


Ah right. So we might as well put an asterisk beside every win we have ever had against better sides than us due to "no pressure or expectation". :rolleyes:

Daft comparison.

I think that is a particularly unfair thing to hold against me.


I do understand where he's coming from when I draw a comparison between the home game against Scotland and the home game against Germany. Admittedly, Germany are a far superior outfit and one we weren't expected by anyone to beat. On the other hand, Scotland came here and, whilst we put in a good performance, managed to get a draw from us. I found that really disappointing, personally, and really lowered my expectations going into the Germany and Poland games this past week.

In effect, we lost over two legs to both Poland and Scotland. We'll be playing sides of that calibre or similar in the play-offs and we'll probably need to draw away and win at home- we didn't manage to draw away to either Poland or Scotland.

I don't think Kingdom was disputing the validity of our 4 points against the Germans but it was worth noting when stating the notable results of the seeded sides.


thank you.

[DeLorean]

If you think there is the same pressure and expectation playing away to Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, the standard-bearers (usually) of European football, as there is playing Scotland, Austria, Slovakia, or any other of the 20 middling teams in the Eurozone, then it's not me that is on a different planet.



I think that is a particularly unfair thing to hold against me.



thank you.

To be fair I think your point was valid enough as well. I wouldn't get too bogged down with the various points some of our potential opponents picked up though. You must admit you'd surely be more concerned if any of them had picked up four points against a Germany or Spain than drips and drabs against so called direct rivals? I definitely would anyway.

[davidatrb]

To be fair I think your point was valid enough as well. I wouldn't get too bogged down with the various points some of our potential opponents picked up though. You must admit you'd surely be more concerned if any of them had picked up four points against a Germany or Spain than drips and drabs against so called direct rivals? I definitely would anyway.

Yep. We'll be the unseeded team to avoid. The seeds will prefer to play the team that lost 4-0 home to Armenia rather than the slayers of the World Champions.

[Kingdom]

To be fair I think your point was valid enough as well. I wouldn't get too bogged down with the various points some of our potential opponents picked up though. You must admit you'd surely be more concerned if any of them had picked up four points against a Germany or Spain than drips and drabs against so called direct rivals? I definitely would anyway.

Yerra it's half of one, and half of another. For example, in the noughties on reflection and in the context of not qualifying for any tournaments in the respective campaigns, I'd have preferred Northern Ireland's notable victories over some pretty big-hitters (england, spain, denmark, sweden, italy draw) in comparison to their standing, rather than our situation whereby in every meaningful game we never struck a hammer-blow to the opposition. Despite those big victories, if we'd played the North at any stage, I'd have fancied us home and away.

Freak results are freak results, they happen every once in a while. If we'd dominated Germany or even achieved parity in play then yes, as a foreigner, I'd be trying to steer clear of the ROI, but despite coming third, we've imposed ourselves for roughly 20 mins twice against our peers. That form isn't sustainable.

[tetsujin1979]

Do I hate the editor it is useless!!

use a code block: https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode#code

P W D L F A GD PtsHungary 10 4 4 2 11 9 2 16
Sweden 10 5 3 2 15 9 6 18
Ukraine 10 6 1 3 14 4 10 19
Bosnia 10 5 2 3 17 12 5 17
----------------------------
Ireland 10 5 3 2 19 7 12 18

[Real ale Madrid]

Freak results are freak results but I wouldn't disregard our 1-0 win over Germany no more than I would disregard Sweden's 4-1 home defeat to Austria, or Hungary losing 4-3 to Greece when they had the chance to qualify automatically.

We must be in with a shout against those 2 in particular.

[Kingdom]

Freak results are freak results but I wouldn't disregard our 1-0 win over Germany no more than I would disregard Sweden's 4-1 home defeat to Austria, or Hungary losing 4-3 to Greece when they had the chance to qualify automatically.

We must be in with a shout against those 2 in particular.

Yeah fair enough.

Anyway I'm not trying to justify my stance, I suppose I'm that pi$$ed with the manager that I'm finding it hard to see a way through these play-offs.

[eekers]

I am quite optimistic we will qualify now especially if we avoid Ukraine.

Said before though it is quite likely it will go to penalties?

It really isnt. Two legged games don't go to penalties very often.
1 in the 59 two legged ties in last years champions league and 2 in 50 two legged ties in the last world cup qualifiers.

[backstothewall]

we lost in glasgow.

DOH.

I really should have know that. Especially with me having been at the game.

[tricky_colour]

use a code block: https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode#code

P W D L F A GD Pts
Hungary 10 4 4 2 11 9 2 16
Sweden 10 5 3 2 15 9 6 18
Ukraine 10 6 1 3 14 4 10 19
Bosnia 10 5 2 3 17 12 5 17
----------------------------
Ireland 10 5 3 2 19 7 12 18


Thanks and FYP

Worth noting we have the best goal difference of all the top seeds!!
Ukraine conceeded just 4 goal 9,9, and 12
for the rest v our 7.

[tricky_colour]

It really isnt. Two legged games don't go to penalties very often.
1 in the 59 two legged ties in last years champions league and 2 in 50 two legged ties in the last world cup qualifiers.


Really? That is a surprise. I guess it must be due to away goals rules as a draw is about a 1 in 3 chance hence 2 draws 1 in 9.

Actually it is not even that as you can have 2-1 and 1-2.

So seems surprising.

Didn't Ireland qualify on penalties some time?

[DannyInvincible]

Really? That is a surprise. I guess it must be due to away goals rules as a draw is about a 1 in 3 chance hence 2 draws 1 in 9.

Actually it is not even that as you can have 2-1 and 1-2.

The away goals rule creates so many more chances for differentiation than if all goals - home and away - carried equal weight. As soon as the number of goals scored by the away team in the second leg differs from the number of goals scored by the away team in the first leg, the chance of the game going to penalties becomes nil because if the aggregate score ends up even, the away goals rule will come into play and decide a winner in a game that otherwise would have gone into extra-time and possibly penalties.


Didn't Ireland qualify on penalties some time?

To the best of my knowledge, Ireland have only ever contested two competitive shoot-outs in our history; against Romania in 1990 and against Spain in 2002. We've been in the Euros on two occasions; 1988 and 2012. And we've been at the World Cup on three occasions; 1990, 1994 and 2002.

We lost the play-off in 1995 to Holland (that was the first in which we ever competed, I think, bar one against Spain for the 1966 World Cup, which wasn't officially a play-off considering it only arose as the third team, Syria, pulled out of our qualification group to leave just ourselves and Spain), we lost in 1997 to Belgium, we lost in 1999 to Turkey due to an away goal, we beat Iran in 2001 and we then failed to make a play-off again until 2009 where we lost to France. We then beat Estonia in 2011 and now we're back again. None of those games went to penalties.

[thischarmingman]

Turkey's players realise they've qualified outright:

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/awesome-the-moment-the-turkey-squad-realised-they-had-qualified-for-euro-2016-video/

[DeLorean]

we've imposed ourselves for roughly 20 mins twice against our peers. That form isn't sustainable.

We basically lost to both by the odd goal over the two games. Even when we were poor (definitely both away games) we were still fairly competitive, and comfortable for long spells in Glasgow. We could and probably should have won both the homes games and could easily have snatched something undeserved in the away games (arguably as they did to us). Overall there wasn't much in it - the home sides generally being the better sides. I think to talk about only having only twenty minutes against each is almost forced negativity. Poland are probably better than anything we're going to face, Scotland possibly worse*. All to play for I think, even if Ukraine fall our way.

Edit - *definitely than three of the four.

[DeLorean]

Turkey's players realise they've qualified outright:

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/awesome-the-moment-the-turkey-squad-realised-they-had-qualified-for-euro-2016-video/

That's kind of how I felt when I saw they'd qualified too! Definitely a good one to avoid, nothing good ever comes out of a trip there, just ask Eric Cantona or Tony Cascarino! Even when we won there in 1991 we were still eliminated. Was great to see Croatia move out of the picture too.

[Gather round]

Good luck lads, the field looks pretty open.

Here's the complete form table in pastel shades:

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/BillMcComish/football/qualifying-finaltable_zpskbkgpdpn.jpg (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/BillMcComish/media/football/qualifying-finaltable_zpskbkgpdpn.jpg.html)

[tetsujin1979]

RTE will be broadcasting the play off draw live: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/1014/734726-rte-player-to-show-euro-play-off-draw/

[ArdeeBhoy]

Good luck lads, the field looks pretty open.

Here's the complete form table in pastel shades:

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/BillMcComish/football/qualifying-finaltable_zpskbkgpdpn.jpg (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/BillMcComish/media/football/qualifying-finaltable_zpskbkgpdpn.jpg.html)
Don't be fooled people, is
sending disparaging messages elsewhere...

[christo]

Bucharest

Ukraine - win in Belarus, point in Slovakia
Hungary - Point in Bucharest, Point in Belfast
Sweden - point in Vienna, point home v Russia, 4 points v Montenegro
Bosnia - 4 points from Wales, Point in Bruxelles
Slovenia - win v Switzerland, win in Vilnius,
Norway - 6 points v Bulgaria, home win v Croatia
Denmark - 6 points v Serbia, rescued point away v Albania.

these are some of the nice results the other play-off qualifiers achieved versus their peers. We took a point away to Scotland and at home to Poland.
I'm worried.

You can also say

Bosnia lost at home to Cyprus and away to Israel
Ukraine scrapped two wins against Macedonia
Hungary got 1 point vs Greece
Sweden drew with Montengro, got hammered 1-4 by Austria.

They all got good results but they also got bad ones, there is a reason these teams finished 3rd and not directly qualified. Any of them should be takeable. Also a point in Bucharest and Belfast wouldn't be something to write home about either.

[Fixer82]

Hungary defence looked brutal against Greece. Wouldn't mind drawing them

[geysir]

That's kind of how I felt when I saw they'd qualified too! Definitely a good one to avoid, nothing good ever comes out of a trip there, just ask Eric Cantona or Tony Cascarino! Even when we won there in 1991 we were still eliminated. Was great to see Croatia move out of the picture too.
I really don't get the fear about Turkey. It's not based on science or history or on Turkey's home performances. Our record is good against them and generally we have a good record in eastern Europe and in similar fan frenzied environments. And considering last night's game, tactically they went for a draw, they still went for a draw despite the Czechs being 2 up, you never got the sense that direct qualification was on the agenda they were shít scared and then they scored late on out of the blue from a free kick.

[geysir]

If you think there is the same pressure and expectation playing away to Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, the standard-bearers (usually) of European football, as there is playing Scotland, Austria, Slovakia, or any other of the 20 middling teams in the Eurozone, then it's not me that is on a different planet.
I don't think we lost against Poland due to us not handling the pressure, we lost because they played better and they were fully worth their 2nd place. I thought it was generally accepted that Poland's game was more affected by the pressure of the importance of the game than us.
I wonder how such a pressure game would have transpired if it was played in Dublin.

Pressure accumulates in a group when options have run out.
We were under extreme pressure in the home game against Germany to get at least a point, if we had failed to at least draw, we would not be in the play offs. The players were under extreme pressure to be perfect and not make the slightest mistake, the longer the game went on that pressure became greater, then we scored and held out under great pressure. The crowd were mental.

[Fixer82]

I really don't get the fear about Turkey. It's not based on science or history or on Turkey's home performances. Our record is good against them and generally we have a good record in eastern Europe and in similar fan frenzied environments. And considering last night's game, tactically they went for a draw, they still went for a draw despite the Czechs being 2 up, you never got the sense that direct qualification was on the agenda they were shít scared and then they scored late on out of the blue from a free kick.

When we played them for Euro 2000 qualifiers they did everything in their power to screw with the players, made us traipse all over the country by boat, train and coach to get there. Gave us a kippy hotel. Players barely slept.
The Turkish FA are historically very very cynical and unsportsmanlike when it comes to this stuff

[DeLorean]

I really don't get the fear about Turkey. It's not based on science or history or on Turkey's home performances. Our record is good against them and generally we have a good record in eastern Europe and in similar fan frenzied environments. And considering last night's game, tactically they went for a draw, they still went for a draw despite the Czechs being 2 up, you never got the sense that direct qualification was on the agenda they were shít scared and then they scored late on out of the blue from a free kick.

Fear would be overstating it for sure, just wouldn't have fancied the thought of having to go there in a winner takes all playoff scenario. Their lunatic supporters would be up for it in a big way and their team is probably as good if not better than the top seeds we're left with. It's well established that teams that have finished third aren't world beaters, so any opinion or preference thrown out there is in the context of the other possibilities. I'm quite happy that Turkey and, in particular, Croatia were taken out of the equation.

[davidatrb]

Ireland, Slovenia and Bosnia are the only teams in the playoffs that have beaten a top 10 team in the last 4 years. Slovenia beat Switzerland when they were ranked 10 in the world by FIFA, Bosnia beat Wales at 8 and Ireland beat Germany ranked 2. Like they say there are no world beaters in there (except maybe us!).

Some hard facts about our potential opponents here.

http://fog2014.blogspot.ie/2015/10/irelands-euro-2016-playoff-opponents.html

We can talk about the potential match ups till the cows come home - but not really that much to say. We are all a bunch of failed qualifiers.

[Crosby87]

It's a virtual who's who of who cares!

[boysingreen]

Don't know about anyone else, but feels like we're already out to me.

That's not a commentary on the strength of potential playoff opponents- would think our odds at this stage amount to a coin toss.

It's more the manner of defeat that has set the mood. Seemed like we did little more than show up and hope lady luck would open a door for us.

[SkStu]

So what is the current situation in a comprehensible manner?


ie something like this:

the Irish team have discovered their four potential playoff opponents: Sweden, Ukraine, Hungary and Bosnia.


Yes I think someone posted a list of four teams, but nothing else was not sure what they signicified so I had to find out myself.


I think we will given than are not eligible for international national competitions!!;)

[edited to make more sense, or not as the case may be!! ;) ]

You really are completely mental. In a good way. But just bananas.

[geysir]

Fear would be overstating it for sure, just wouldn't have fancied the thought of having to go there in a winner takes all playoff scenario. Their lunatic supporters would be up for it in a big way and their team is probably as good if not better than the top seeds we're left with. It's well established that teams that have finished third aren't world beaters, so any opinion or preference thrown out there is in the context of the other possibilities. I'm quite happy that Turkey and, in particular, Croatia were taken out of the equation.
Maybe it's different for some fans but it appears that the away team players just love playing in Turkey and on evident form and ability, Turkey would be behind Sweden, Bosnia and Ukraine. I'd have taken us playing Turkey in a heartbeat over any of those 3 opponents.
But as i might have said before, it's mainly about us turning up, not who we are paired against.

[tricky_colour]

Fear would be overstating it for sure, just wouldn't have fancied the thought of having to go there in a winner takes all playoff scenario. Their lunatic supporters would be up for it in a big way and their team is probably as good if not better than the top seeds we're left with. It's well established that teams that have finished third aren't world beaters, so any opinion or preference thrown out there is in the context of the other possibilities. I'm quite happy that Turkey and, in particular, Croatia were taken out of the equation.

So am I indeed the top seeds seem weaker than bottom seeds, however I guess Bosnia and Croatia are a good example.
Looking at their historic fifa ranking it is impossible to see how Bosnia are higher seeds, so I really do not know
how they managed to achieve that it must be a crash system.

[backstothewall]

I think a lot of the reputation Turkey has as a hard place to go has it's roots back in the 90's when they were playing in a rickety old ground and giving it all the welcome to hell stuff. But these days it's a nice modern stadium with plastic seats like any other.

Not that dissimilar to our own experience with the renovation of Landsdowne Road actually.

[tricky_colour]

I think a lot of the reputation Turkey has as a hard place to go has it's roots back in the 90's when they were playing in a rickety old ground and giving it all the welcome to hell stuff. But these days it's a nice modern stadium with plastic seats like any other.
`

So I guess it would have been a case of plastic paddies on plastic seats!! :)

[DeLorean]

Maybe it's different for some fans but it appears that the away team players just love playing in Turkey

How's that?


on evident form and ability, Turkey would be behind Sweden, Bosnia and Ukraine. I'd have taken us playing Turkey in a heartbeat over any of those 3 opponents.

Ability is obviously subjective but their form is quite clearly better than the three sides you mention. Their results this year-

Turkey 1-0 Iceland
Czech Rep 0-2 Turkey
Turkey 3-0 Netherlands
Turkey 1-1 Latvia (conceded injury time equaliser)
Kazakhstan 0-1 Turkey
Turkey 4-0 Bulgaria
Luxembourg 1-2 Turkey
Netherlands 1-1 Turkey

That's an impressive run by any standards.

[ArdeeBhoy]

We can't even play Turkey...
Who aren't even in Europe.

Total red herring.

[Kingdom]

Ability is obviously subjective but their form is quite clearly better than the three sides you mention. Their results this year-

Turkey 1-0 Iceland
Czech Rep 0-2 Turkey
Turkey 3-0 Netherlands
Turkey 1-1 Latvia (conceded injury time equaliser)
Kazakhstan 0-1 Turkey
Turkey 4-0 Bulgaria
Luxembourg 1-2 Turkey
Netherlands 1-1 Turkey

That's an impressive run by any standards.

Turkey are one of the form teams in Europe. They've got Terim back who is a god to most Turkey fans, and players will run through walls for him. They were poxed in Amsterdam too conceding in the last minute.

They've played their recent matches in Konya, right in the middle of Anatolya, wonder how much of a factor that played.

[DeLorean]

We can't even play Turkey...
Who aren't even in Europe.

Total red herring.

Simple discussion about the merits of the teams we can play compared to those we'll now avoid. At one point on Tuesday night we could have played Turkey (who are partially based in Europe but more importantly participate in UEFA competition). I think it's a fairly natural way for the conversation to evolve after the various permutations started working themselves out.

[punkrocket]

We can't even play Turkey...
Who aren't even in Europe.

Total red herring.

Turkey? herrings? I haven't had my lunch yet.
Anyone else feeling Hungary?

[Stuttgart88]

Me to. I'll head to Iceland to buy some food.

[osarusan]

Too early to finnish work, surely?

[OwlsFan]

Hungary, Bosnia-H, Sweden and Ukraine in that order.

[Fixer82]

`

So I guess it would have been a case of plastic paddies on plastic seats!! :)

or in Plasticland, just known as Paddies on seats

[Fixer82]

Turkey? herrings? I haven't had my lunch yet.
Anyone else feeling Hungary?

I was really hungary the other day and a lady on Aungier street saw my gaunt look and kindly handed me a plate saying 'Here'z-a-govindas'.

That's a right turkey isn't it??
See ya lads, it was nice knowing you all

*coat on, car revving outside front door, ticket to Mexico in arse pocket....