Champions' League 2013/4

[Charlie Darwin]

A big half hour for Man City's season - down to 10 men and 1-0 down at home to Barcelona. Hard to see them overcoming anything more than a one-goal deficit.

Leverkusen are also down to 10 men at home to PSG, having held out for a commendable two and a half minutes before conceding the first of three goals.

[geysir]

Hard to tell how good Barca were, Man City just were not that interested in making a game out of it, maybe they were afraid losing by a landslide had they tried to play their usual game. Maybe Barca just outfoxed them completely so they couldn't play. For a £1bn team, Man City were made to look like novices in the CL. We'll know better about Barca (re their title hopes) in the next round when the standard of the opposition should be better.

[Charlie Darwin]

City actually looked better with ten men, going forward at least they seemed more positive. Demichelis actually played well for once but it was part of a rearguard action, whereas without him they were more confident and let their natural game flow.

[BonnieShels]

It was weird supporting Man City. I feel dirty.

[old git]

Hard to tell how good Barca were, Man City just were not that interested in making a game out of it, maybe they were afraid losing by a landslide had they tried to play their usual game. Maybe Barca just outfoxed them completely so they couldn't play. For a £1bn team, Man City were made to look like novices in the CL. We'll know better about Barca (re their title hopes) in the next round when the standard of the opposition should be better.

no guarantee of better opposition in next round still a few poor teams make still sneak through, Kompany nearly had a kevin keegan moment in his aftermatch interview " they were there for the taking / not the best team we played this season comment must be some savage teams in the mighty premier league:eek:

[Charlie Darwin]

no guarantee of better opposition in next round still a few poor teams make still sneak through, Kompany nearly had a kevin keegan moment in his aftermatch interview " they were there for the taking / not the best team we played this season comment must be some savage teams in the mighty premier league:eek:
I'd say he was talking about Bayern, but still they were far from there for the taking, although City had chances even with 10 men.

[DeLorean]

Or Chelsea... who completely outplayed them a couple of weeks ago, were more defensively sound and created far more than Barca. Still silly comments tough after being outclassed.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm prepared to cut Kompany some slack. He's a class act in every regard and was clearly just upset after losing a big game.

The commentary on ITV was so one-eyed it was ridiculous. So what if the initial contact was marginally outside the box. It was a penalty all day long. 99pc of refs anywhere would have given it and morally it doesn't matter if it was technically not a penalty - he was clean through on goal in total control of the ball.

They then said that City had just as many chances as Barcelona even after the sending off because Hart hadn't a save to make. The disallowed goal that was offside wasn't mentioned. Alvez had a shot inches wide. Barcelona cut them open a few times but wasted the telling pass. I agree that Valdez made a couple of important stops or interventions but the better team won from what I saw (second half only).

[Closed Account 2]

Barca still looked very suspect when trying to deal with crosses in their box. Negredo seemed to win everything in their air. A back line of Alves, Pique, Mascherano and Alba is great going forward but none of those players great at defending in say the way players like Thiago Silva, Lahm, Subotic, Chiellini etc, are - if they afford that much space to a player like Ibrahimovic, Cavani or Mandzukic (if he is picked) then they'll conceed.

[DeLorean]

The commentary on ITV was so one-eyed it was ridiculous.

Roy surely helped regain some balance...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CafSrYKP8Fc

[pineapple stu]

The commentary on ITV was so one-eyed it was ridiculous. So what if the initial contact was marginally outside the box. It was a penalty all day long. 99pc of refs anywhere would have given it and morally it doesn't matter if it was technically not a penalty - he was clean through on goal in total control of the ball.
I'm confused by this.

Morally, it does matter if it technically wasn't a penalty. That Messi was clean through is relevant only to the red card, which was correctly given.

Whether it's a penalty depends on where the foul was, not whether Messi was clean through. From my watching of it - in a pub with the sound down - it seemed that contact (the tackle) was made just outside the box, and Messi's momentum caused him to fall inside the box. But the only contact was outside, therefore it's a free, not a penalty surely?

The ref probably shouldn't have given the penalty as such - the linesman would have had a better view of where the foul took place, so if the ref was in doubt, he should have checked with the linesman.

Course, they could have gotten it wrong, which is fair enough - it was a very close call, and after a few replays, I wasn't entirely sure myself where the contact was - but I don't see why you'd say it was morally a penalty because Messi was through on goal?

[Charlie Darwin]

Good grief, if anyone was thinking about skipping the start of the Arsenal match to watch the end of Corrie, you're missing out on one of the best openings to a football match ever.

Penalty Arsenal!

edit: Ozil misses! Awful peno!

[geysir]

On the penalties, if the tv coverage stopped just as the taker was about to make contact with the ball and each pundit gives an appraisal of the confidence, approach and likely scenario of what's going to happen next, would we have the same comments "he never looked confident" "he was leaning back" etc?

[Charlie Darwin]

On the penalties, if the tv coverage stopped just as the taker was about to make contact with the ball and each pundit gives an appraisal of the confidence, approach and likely scenario of what's going to happen next, would we have the same comments "he never looked confident" "he was leaning back" etc?
True, but Ozil was very hesitant in the run-up, as typified by the stutter that I thought was illegal?

I'm not so sure Szcezsny should have been sent off. Surely Robben's touch had taken the ball away from goal so it was hardly a goal-scoring opportunity he prevented? Ozil looked more in control of the ball when Boateng fouled him but that was only a yellow.

[Closed Account 2]

Not 100% sure but I think if the striker is continually moving forward then a slowdown stutter is allowed, basically a stop is not allowed.

Feel a bit sorry for Sir Chesney, its a no win situation if he doesn't react in all probability he let's in an away goal, if he does go for it then there is a risk of a pen and red.

[geysir]

Regardless of whether it was a goal scoring opportunity, I don't like the red card rule because it doesn't discriminate between cynical and non cynical. That was just a natural coming together, each player making an honest effort to play the ball, a penalty would have been suffice, imo.

Brilliant first goal by Bayern, the cut back was just met perfectly by Kroos.
All 4 seeds were well superior (varying levels of) to their opponents, so far in this CL last 16.

Pep must be earning a bit more with Bayern seeing as he's no longer wearing that jacket with the elbow patches.

[Charlie Darwin]

Regardless of whether it was a goal scoring opportunity, I don't like the red card rule because it doesn't discriminate between cynical and non cynical. That was just a natural coming together, each player making an honest effort to play the ball, a penalty would have been suffice, imo.
It's interesting because it's one of the few fouls where intent isn't taken into consideration when the punishment is being decided - the only criteria is the material effect of the foul. Usually, a professional foul and an incidental foul are treated differently.

[Charlie Darwin]

On the penalties, if the tv coverage stopped just as the taker was about to make contact with the ball and each pundit gives an appraisal of the confidence, approach and likely scenario of what's going to happen next, would we have the same comments "he never looked confident" "he was leaning back" etc?
Giles's analysis of this was interesting. He reckons Ozil didn't have a plan for where he'd hit the ball - he was relying on Neuer making a decision before he hit the ball and then he'd choose the opposite side.

Then he ruined it by suggesting Ozil should have stopped completely before making up his mind, which is very much illegal.

[Closed Account 2]

Giles's analysis of this was interesting. He reckons Ozil didn't have a plan for where he'd hit the ball - he was relying on Neuer making a decision before he hit the ball and then he'd choose the opposite side.

Then he ruined it by suggesting Ozil should have stopped completely before making up his mind, which is very much illegal.

I'm not sure what the sanction would have been had Ozil completely stopped. I think it would have been a yellow and (if he had struck the ball after stopping) a re-take of the penalty.

On the red card the very least UEFA/FIFA could do is give the team with the red carded keeper an extra sub. For instance last night, Arsenal had already made one sub (Monreal for Gibbs) due to injury, they then had to make a second sub (Cazorla for Fabianski) to bring on a keeper, which meant as well as giving away the pen, and losing a man, they also had to play the remaining 50-60 mins with only one sub. In reality they couldnt afford to freshen up the team before 75-80 mins as doing so would leave them with no subs left and running a risk of going down to 9 men if they got an injury. It just became a case of the 10 men being run into the ground.

If the Cazorla for Fabianski sub hadn't counted as one of the three, then at least then would have been able to introduce subs to freshen up the team and give them a bit of respite. Say on 60 mins they could have taken Sanogo off (for Giroud) and on 75 mins Chamberlain (for Rosicky) it might have made it more of a contest.

[geysir]

Giles's analysis of this was interesting. He reckons Ozil didn't have a plan for where he'd hit the ball - he was relying on Neuer making a decision before he hit the ball and then he'd choose the opposite side.
In that case, Giles could only make that comment after he had seen Ozil's poor shot selection and it was a fair assessment of what went down. Mostly commentators/co-commentators and pundits come out with gospel like statements of absolute certainty afterwards, about the player lacking confidence in the run up to a missed penalty. Yeah, sure Ronnie:rolleyes:

I don't know why some commentators go to such contorted lengths trying to pronounce Ozil's name. Just say Ozil.

[DeLorean]

I'm not sure what the sanction would have been had Ozil completely stopped. I think it would have been a yellow and (if he had struck the ball after stopping) a re-take of the penalty.

That's exactly what would have happened going by this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWE17d2-LCA

[pineapple stu]

I don't know why some commentators go to such contorted lengths trying to pronounce Ozil's name. Just say Ozil.
Eh? His name isn't Ozil. It's Özil. It's really not that difficult to pronounce.

No difference between Ozil and McGraff or Moe-ran or Kin-SEL-la other annoying mis-pronunciations.

[Charlie Darwin]

Eh? His name isn't Ozil. It's Özil. It's really not that difficult to pronounce.

No difference between Ozil and McGraff or Moe-ran or Kin-SEL-la other annoying mis-pronunciations.
Or John Carew.

[Stuttgart88]

Regardless of whether it was a goal scoring opportunity, I don't like the red card rule because it doesn't discriminate between cynical and non cynical. That was just a natural coming together, each player making an honest effort to play the ball, a penalty would have been suffice, imo.

Brilliant first goal by Bayern, the cut back was just met perfectly by Kroos.
All 4 seeds were well superior (varying levels of) to their opponents, so far in this CL last 16.

Pep must be earning a bit more with Bayern seeing as he's no longer wearing that jacket with the elbow patches.I agree. Examiner had a good piece on it today:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arsenal-were-not-robbed-but-rules-are-too-harsh-259423.html

Kroos' goal was a joy to watch from the north stand angle, as was his guided shot that hit the post. Kroos completed more passes than Arsenal.

I do think that 0-1 would hvae been an OK result to take to Munich but 0-2 is too much.

I think Wenger's weaknesses are becoming evident again. Sanoko was not ready for this type of game. Though is finishing isn't too reliable Giroud's hold up play is superb. Ozil has looked physically spent for weeks now and his confidence is low but Wenger plays him for every minute of every game almost. He needs a rest. His penalty was a shocker but the drop in the rest of his game is understandable. Not having a mobile forward to feed also restricts his impact. Ozil should have been subbed after the red card last night and he could have gone off without losing face. The game suddenly required harder working players and Cazorla was looking the sharper of the two anyway. Wilshere is playing a very ordinary game at the moment but he can be better.

They sorely miss Walcott and Ramsey who can get between defensive lines.


Bayern's ownership of the ball and use of the full width was very impressive but the first 20 mins showed they might still be vulnerable to being raped by a team like Chelsea.

[geysir]

Eh? His name isn't Ozil. It's Özil. It's really not that difficult to pronounce.
No difference between Ozil and McGraff or Moe-ran or Kin-SEL-la other annoying mis-pronunciations.
Yeah I do realise the O is not an Ö , don't you think I might be aware of the Ö seeing as I live in Iceland? :rolleyes:
If it's so easy to pronounce, why is it that it's so rare (if ever) to hear it pronounced correctly by English or Irish commentators/pundits/journalists? and considering all the botched attempts, why not just go with Ozil? Many English commentators/pundits/journalist already have a problem with pronouncing the r and for some bizarre reason they want to insert a couple of r's into the pronunciation of Özil.
The botch is just plain corny and awful.

[Stuttgart88]

How is it pronounced then? Spell it phonetically please.

[pineapple stu]

meːzut øːzil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_German)

The phonetic guide at the link has the initial letter sounding like the u in hurt. The rest is straightforward.

Giving up and falling back on "Ozil" is just ignorant.

[geysir]

How is it pronounced then? Spell it phonetically please.
Spell it phonetically for yourself :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XgpcMYEhXw

[geysir]

meːzut øːzil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_German)

The phonetic guide at the link has the initial letter sounding like the u in hurt. The rest is straightforward.

Giving up and falling back on "Ozil" is just ignorant.
Ignorant :rolleyes: My my, you do love the high horse,
just how does the u in hurt, sound like the Turkish Ö in Özil?

[Charlie Darwin]

I regret to say I find this discussion shallow and pedantic.

[geysir]

I just don't know how Liam Brady tolerated all those ignorant Italians pronouncing his name the Italian way.

[pineapple stu]

My my, you do love the high horse,
From you! That's some compliment.

I gave a link; did you not click on it? Or is the International Phonetic Alphabet not quite up to your standards?

[Charlie Darwin]

Manchester United 2-0 down after an hour at Olympiacos, looking clueless. This could be the first - and who'd have forecast it? - home win of the knockout stages so far.

[DannyInvincible]

I don't know if it's comical any more. It's tragic. I almost feel sorry for them.

[Charlie Darwin]

How is that going down in Manchester, Danny?

[Stuttgart88]

3 games, no goals for EPL teams so far in the last 16.

[Closed Account 2]

Olympiacos have done well to avoid a potential banana skin tonight.

[DannyInvincible]

According to Joey Barton on Twitter, Vidic doesn't even change with his United team-mates any longer: http://balls.ie/football/joey-barton-spreading-bizarre-nemanja-vidic-rumours-twitter/


rumour he changes in a separate changing room and refuses to be part of group anymore, all down to how contract was handled.

[Charlie Darwin]

Surely his team mates aren't to blame for that? Although the way he was passing last night, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the first time he's met them this month.

[OwlsFan]

None of the teams in the "best league in the world" managed a win. Not often I say this but Roy Keane was right when he said it was the best promoted brand but not the best league.

[bennocelt]

TBF the standard of a lot of the football I see these days even from Germany is pretty dire

[Closed Account 2]

TBF the standard of a lot of the football I see these days even from Germany is pretty dire

I think you have to bear in mind that Schalke (and Leverkusen to an extent) are significantly weaker than Bayern and Dortmund. Schalke have generally sold (or lost due to contracts running down) their best players over the last few years (Neuer, Holtby, Westermann, Rakitic, Rafiniha, even Kuranyi going back a few years). You can probably add Draxler to that list as it looks certain he will go this summer. Even the big signings they make tend to be opportunistic and they will buy a good player who doesnt quite fit at his current club, for example Huntelaar didn't really start for Real Madrid and even when he joined Milan Leonardo was picking Borriello and even Inzaghi ahead of him, Schalke were able to buy him for around half of what Real had paid 18 months earlier (14 vs 27, although that 27 was including various addons).

They have had a mixed season so far, and tend to stuggle against better sides. In the Bundesliga their record against strong sides isnt great, Wolfsburg (who have a degree of financial power in Germany) away lost 3-0, Gladbach away loast 2-1, Bayern Munich home lost 4-0, 3-1 defeat at home to Dortmund. They have had some impressive results doing the double over Leverkusen and beating Hertha in Berlin, but generally against the top teams domestically they havent really convinced. In Europe as well they haven't been that impressive, they made hard work of POAK (1-1 and 3-2) and I'm not convinced they would have beaten Metalist (which was the original tie before the Ukrainians were ejected). In the group stage they lost 3-0 home and away to Chelsea, beat Steaua home but only drew away, and beat Basel home and away, but you wouldnt say they were that impressive in Europe.

[bennocelt]

I was including Bayern and Dortmund in that as well!!! :)

[Closed Account 2]

I was including Bayern and Dortmund in that as well!!! :)

I think Dortmund have been pretty good, they topped one of the hardest CL groups in years. They have had massive injury problems especially with Subotic and Hummels being injured more often then they've been fit (at one stage their whole back line was out), Gundogan has also hardly played. They have a very strong first team and were even able to replace high class departures by bringing in players like Abeymueyang and Mkhitarian, but they dont quite have the resources to bring the rest of the squad up to very top level.

They play a very fluid game, and attack with a lot of pace and great support from midfielders, they instantly swarm the oppsitions defence with numbers, and Lewandoski's hold up play also lets them keep possession for a few seconds well these midfielders support him. They totally overwhelmed Zenit (who admittedly looked poor at the back and have since Denisov left) but to score 4 goals in St. Petersburg is a good achievement. The did conceed two, one was a bit of a weak penalty, the other may have been offside - although they still had time to clear the ball, but overall I was impressed with them espescially bouncing back after the bizzare defeat in Hamburg.

[Charlie Darwin]

Anybody watching the Europa League? Reina just pulled off an absolutely worldy to almost certainly guide Napoli in the next round.

[geysir]

When so many of the ties are one sided, the last 16 set up is bit drawn out, with 2 games an evening over 2 weeks, though this evening the rte panel are all psyched up for a Man City comeback. No doubt Barca have lost a bit of glitter but have City anything more than a snowball's chance? I suspect they lost the tie in the first half in Manchester.

The B section next week has a couple of exciting 2nd leg games in prospect.

[Charlie Darwin]

The Leverkusen fightback is on - 1-0 up in Paris.

[Charlie Darwin]

Didn't last long, 1-1.

[Stuttgart88]

That Barcelona "goal" looked good to me in real time

[Charlie Darwin]

It did to me too. Not sure what the linesman called it back for.