Champions' League 2013/4

[geysir]

Milan come good in the end against Celtic. Stokes came close with a bullet free kick.

Basel dump on Chelsea, anybody who knew anything about football knew that Basel were more than a match for Chelsea ;).

[Closed Account 2]

Looks like Chelsea fans might regret wanting Benitez out and Mourinho in... Last year they won at Goodison, Old Trafford and saw off Basel, this year its not quite the same. Benitez on the other hand is still winning European matches.

[geysir]

I did think last season's triumph by Chelsea over Basel was (in the main) down to the the tactical acumen of Benitez.
But I thought some people were saying it was because Basel were not worthy ;)

[Closed Account 2]

They're a moderately competent side, I don't see a huge amount of invention in their play. But if Chelsea are going to defend (or not defend) corners like that then Basel will take advantage, as probably most other sides would.

[geysir]

I'm sure Basel will be delighted by your accolade that they are a moderately successful side and will take on board that they need a bit more invention in their play. But it does sound like a Daily Sun review of a Kurosawa film.

[bennocelt]

Milan come good in the end against Celtic. Stokes came close with a bullet free kick.

Basel dump on Chelsea, anybody who knew anything about football knew that Basel were more than a match for Chelsea ;).


Seen Basel a few times this season, seem to be very well coached and are getting better with every game. God knows what they will be like come the end of the season!
Very solid team, with excellent wingers, and no big name players (Apart from Salah I guess).
Got my CL tkts, so looking forward to seeing them in the flesh again soon:)

[geysir]

I see Celtic's Ambrose has rediscovered his football personality since it mysteriously disappeared for months after the ACON final. He has a good partner in the Dutch signing Van Dijk. I thought the game was a sure fire draw as both teams were struggling to create chances. Milan looked like a team who had been asked to work overtime, on normal pay. It just shows you, how out of nothing a game can be won late on, cruel but that's football, them's the breaks.
Matthews was uncomfortable all night with his passing and deliveries.
I think it's a while since Celtic got beat away in Europe but deserved better on the night, way back to MON's time, against Juve, Bayern and Lyon.

[Junior]

I thought Matthews did okay, there was space on the wide right and he could have made more of it though thats for sure. I was calling for Boerrighter to be brought in much earlier as he is more naturally an attacker and going to make better use of that space (Matthews is a fullback afterall). I can understand why the change wasnt made earlier though, it was still 0-0, Celtic were comfortable, Milan were not looking particularly dangerous. However we were not making the most of our possession and that always comes back to bite you on the ar$e. It did, unfortunately.

[Charlie Darwin]

I did think last season's triumph by Chelsea over Basel was (in the main) down to the the tactical acumen of Benitez.
But I thought some people were saying it was because Basel were not worthy ;)
Ah, you're being very naive here geysir. If Basel's players were any good they'd be playing in the Premier League.

[Closed Account 2]

Why Premier League? Don't they traditionally tend to sell their best players to the Bundesliga? (Shakhiri, Xhaka, Derdiyok, the Degens)?

[Charlie Darwin]

All the best players play in the Premier League.

[geysir]

Ah, you're being very naive here geysir. If Basel's players were any good they'd be playing in the Premier League.
Then possibly you agree with the already mentioned qualitative difference between Rafa and Mourinho, as being the main reason why Basel came away with the points, this time around :)

Myself, I just say these things happen,
out of 4 games, Basel are good enough to win twice and Chelsea good enough to win the other 2 times. Only the top teams manage consistency in the CL, when it's required.

[geysir]

I thought Matthews did okay, there was space on the wide right and he could have made more of it though thats for sure. I was calling for Boerrighter to be brought in much earlier as he is more naturally an attacker and going to make better use of that space (Matthews is a fullback afterall). I can understand why the change wasnt made earlier though, it was still 0-0, Celtic were comfortable, Milan were not looking particularly dangerous. However we were not making the most of our possession and that always comes back to bite you on the ar$e. It did, unfortunately.
Matthew played well except for his passing and deliveries.
Sometimes that can be said about a player without embarrassment.

[OwlsFan]

Such a shame Celtic had to sell their best players. AC were there for the taking.

Was Basel beating Chelsea such a huge shock ? The Swiss, including their national side, have been putting in some excellent performances over the past few years.

[geysir]

Basel beating Chelsea wasn't a shock, hardly even a small surprise,
but definitely welcome.

[geysir]

Jurgen Klopp's sideline antics makes neil Lennon look like an alter boy.

'when Napoli scored against his club in the first half, Jurgen disappeared and his mentally unstable doppelganger turned up. After his face returned to something resembling human, he applauded the ref and was summarily sent off.'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWoU16D4f4w

[Closed Account 2]

Very strange goings on at the St Jacob's Park last night. I keenly tuned in at 7:45, bag of Lindt chocolate in one hand, mug of Rivella in another, enticed at the prospect of this exuberant Basel/Basle vanquishing yet another European team with ease. Imagine my shock at seeing some kind of Milk Tray advert redux, commandos abseiled from the rafters and unfurled a huge banner paying homage to company that sponsors the competition and (possibly) heats the stadium :)

In all seriousness, they could be in a spot of bother over that - it shows a fairly major security lapse. It's one thing for fans to sneak in with small banners or flairs hidden in socks or down the sleeve of a jacket, but it's quite another when half a dozen get onto the roof with a huge banner and full climbing gear... They may end up having to play in an empty stadium.

Good result for Atletico Madrid, nice free kick to win it, although the scorer might have been offside - it looked 50:50.

[geysir]

If you expect that Basel should win every game in the CL group phase against bigger richer clubs, to prove that they're a very good club, playing very good football, then you are bigger fool than I had taken you for :)

I don't see the logic of Basel being punished by playing in an empty stadium and I'd deem it a very unlikely punishment. Possibly a fine for lax security, even if they had regulation approved security in place but were just outwitted by a bunch of determined crafty spiderpeople.

[Charlie Darwin]

Nobody got hurt except for a sponsor's reputation so Basel will probably be thrown out of the competition.

[bennocelt]

http://www.footballfans.eu/img?f=3799074&w=1410&h=603

Was at the game - bit weird alright. Otherwise the game was as dull as dishwater. Schalke scored a decent goal, and thats all that really happened in the game. Will be tough for Basel to get out of this group, will be close.

[Charlie Darwin]

Interesting that RTE have gone with City-Bayern over United-Shakhtar today - they've chosen the better game of football over the more popular team.

[geysir]

I wouldn't give up on Basel just yet, there's an easy 3 pointer against Chelsea to come :)

[geysir]

Joe Hart is and has been a liability. How come this hasn't sunk in yet?

[Charlie Darwin]

Because England. He'd have been replaced a couple of years ago otherwise. Wouldn't be surprised if Pellegrini tried to pick up a new number one in the winter, but I expect him to give Hart until the summer.

[geysir]

Italian club football is sinking even lower than last year.
Galatasaray ahead tonight at half time against juve. Milan struggling, depending on blatant cynicism to get a draw against Ajax and Napoli going belly up in London last night.

[Stuttgart88]

Because England. He'd have been replaced a couple of years ago otherwise. Wouldn't be surprised if Pellegrini tried to pick up a new number one in the winter, but I expect him to give Hart until the summer.

Apparently Mancini and Platt had already decided to replace him with Begovic, but they got replaced first.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2402070/Roberto-Mancini-wanted-Asmir-Begovic-replace-Joe-Hart-Manchester-City.html

[Closed Account 2]

Comedy goals in the CSKA v Plzen match tonight.

[Closed Account 2]

Here is the best one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfZ8tmuW-dU

[geysir]

I'd say Real Madrid and Juve has the makings of the game of tonight. some scintillating football so far, mainly from Juve.

[Charlie Darwin]

Was coming here to post exactly that. Juventus have swarmed all over them but Real appear able to score goals at will.

[Charlie Darwin]

Chiellini off for an "elbow". There's a potentially great match ruined.

[geysir]

Phantom elbow.
Maybe one day there will be such a thing as a player's cheat stat, with different categories.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's more than just cheating. Players get caught with accidental elbows all the time - the referee looked at what is quite a common occurrance and decided that it was malicious. That's nothing to do with the player cheating and everything to do with the referee inventing something in his head.

[geysir]

You had that and you also had Ronaldo blatantly acting as if he had been elbowed. The ref would not likely be fooled without the simulation.

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't see it. How did it compare with Lewandowski last night, when Koscielny just took it in the chin, almost literally?

[geysir]

It doesn't at all compare with Lewandowski's,
that was a question of whether it was just a foul or intent - elbow smashing into the face intent.
Ronaldo simulated contact and fooled the gullible officials, player red carded, game over.

[Charlie Darwin]

You had that and you also had Ronaldo blatantly acting as if he had been elbowed. The ref would not likely be fooled without the simulation.
I accept that, but my point is that even if Ronaldo had been caught and was in pain, it was still never a red card. You can't go giving red cards for players putting their arms across opponents like that.

[geysir]

I accept that, but my point is that even if Ronaldo had been caught and was in pain, it was still never a red card. You can't go giving red cards for players putting their arms across opponents like that.
The Lewandowski elbow incident yesterday was just about - probably - not intentional, if there was intent it could not be detected or proven.
You could say, regardless of what the recipient of the elbow smash does, the ref should see the incident for what it is and
no amount of simulation should have influenced the ref's decision from non intentional to intentional.

But it doesn't always work like that, I don't know why, maybe when there's some doubt as to what happened, the ref gets persuaded by the simulation.
Just think of a player simulating getting hacked down by the goalie, the ref gets hoodwinked by the theatre. The ref got hoodwinked tonight that the elbow was used aggressively to shield Ronaldo from the ball.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think those situations are analogous. In all my years of watching footballs elbow each other, I've never seen a player elbow a guy who's running past him like that. It's just too improbable to occur. I have no doubt Ronaldo went down clutching his face in an effort to con the referee, but I think he was doing it to ensure he got the free kick and maybe have Chiellini yellow-carded. He must not have been able to believe his luck when the referee took out the red.

[geysir]

I think Charlie you have to concede, due to the overwhelming evidence available, that refs do get fooled by players simulating injury and you just can't legislate where simulation should not matter in a game, as in influencing a ref.
And if you trust that the refs are very proficient at this level, actually are under pressure to make the 'right' decision at all times and most probably do want to make the right decision at all times.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well yeah but my argument isn't with Ronaldo simulating injury (he did). I'm saying that even in his wildest dreams, Ronaldo wouldn't have imagined that his dive would be interpreted by the officials as a deliberate elbow. I'm not sticking up for lily-livered Ronaldo, I'm saying the officials went one step further and produced a decision for the ages.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except refs/officials these days are often eejits.

Another reason why these should be confirmed by a video ref. Non-contact should mean a straight red for the supposedly 'fouled'​ players. Then these morons would stop perhaps.

[geysir]

Well yeah but my argument isn't with Ronaldo simulating injury (he did). I'm saying that even in his wildest dreams, Ronaldo wouldn't have imagined that his dive would be interpreted by the officials as a deliberate elbow. I'm not sticking up for lily-livered Ronaldo, I'm saying the officials went one step further and produced a decision for the ages.
I can't read Ronaldo's mind re his expectations, but it is clear that he did everything to simulate a reason for a ref to give a red card. No mitigation for Ronaldo by putting the onus on the ref to suss out that he was cheating.

Maybe the officials should have known better, somewhere, something got lost. Between the lot of them you'd think they would be able to communicate, so probably they would need a time out situation or and video ref to get it all in perspective. The rest of the officiating in the game was very good.

[Charlie Darwin]

You're being a little disingenuous here, geysir. You can make a reasonable approximation of his expectations. When a cat chases its tail, you can reasonably infer that he is chasing a moving object rather than fulfilling an deep-seated vendetta against tails. Likewise, if Ronaldo falls down clutching a body part in normal play, you can infer that he is looking for a free kick, rather than the straight red he might demand were it an off-the-ball incident.

[geysir]

I wouldn't know how to be disingenuous, I don't know how you can infer that :)
I can't read Ronaldo's mind but I can observe what he did. If a player simulates getting hit on the face with a flying elbow, rolls around the grass in agony then to my mind he's trying to convince the ref that an offence has been committed, depending on perception if the ref has been suckered, it's a yellow or straight red card offence. FWIW I think Chiellini was fouling him, using his arm way too high to ward off Ronaldo and Ronaldo simulated getting chopped. A foul was turned into something violent by Ronaldo.

Whats the big deal anyway, you infer one thing and I don't agree with you :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Because you both love 'point-scoring'...
:rolleyes:

[Closed Account 2]

Juventus are up against it now, of all the Italian teams they probably had the easiest group, yet half way through they have less than half the points of Napoli or Milan. Even if they win at home to Madrid (unlikely) they could still need a win in Turkey which will be a tall order for them.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I'm sure this'll prove popular with some on here...
http://bit.ly/1dOzUIU
http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/celtic-to-play-a-champions-league-game-in-dublin-it-could-happen-next-season/

[A N Mouse]

I'm sure this'll prove popular with some on here...
http://bit.ly/1dOzUIU
http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/celtic-to-play-a-champions-league-game-in-dublin-it-could-happen-next-season/

Well they did play a champions league game in Belfast this year :rolleyes:

[DannyInvincible]

UEFA Champions League rules don't permit the playing of home fixtures outside the territory of a competing club's association, so Celtic will have to play any home qualifiers in Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24758149

Exemptions can only be granted or enforced for disciplinary or security/safety reasons.


But BBC Sport have been told that Uefa, under its current rules, would deny any request to play the game outside Scotland, citing rule 12.7 of Champions League regulations.

It states Champions League matches must be played "either at the ground of the home club or at another ground in the same or another city within the territory of its association".

The only exemptions under the rule are for safety issues or as the result of a disciplinary measure.

Celtic are citing their European Cup Winners Cup game at Old Trafford in 1984 against Rapid Vienna as a potential precedent for moving the game.

But that match was only played at Manchester United's stadium after Uefa ordered a replay at a neutral ground at least 100 miles away from Glasgow following a controversial end to the second-leg at Celtic Park.

The club are also thought to be considering the 67,800 capacity Murrayfield stadium in Edinburgh, the home of Scottish rugby, with Uefa's regulations now making it the leading contender to host the potential game.