Champions' League 2013/4

[geysir]

Probably Danny, but UEFA have not decided anything yet.
The BBC have just been told by somebody who read the rules that UEFA would decide against allowing the match to be played outside Scotland.

And probably Lawwell would just like to have as many bargaining options as possible when he goes to negotiate terms with available stadiums in Scotland.

[DannyInvincible]

Probably Danny, but UEFA have not decided anything yet.

What is there to decide? :o

[geysir]

What is there to decide? :o
Emmet Malone in the IT this afternoon, reflected my thoughts (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/managerial-appointment-looks-more-likely-after-fai-confirms-latvia-date-1.1579869) on the matter:)

'Uefa, meanwhile, yesterday declined to confirm reports by the BBC that it would refuse permission to Celtic to play a European game in Dublin next summer in the event that such a request was made.
The organisation merely pointed to the rule book which states on the one hand that such games can only be moved to another jurisdiction on grounds of safety or as a result of a disciplinary measure but then, in the very next section, appears to allow more scope for flexibility in the event that a club’s home ground is unavailable which it would be in this instance.
Celtic, in any case, had stated that staging the game at Murrayfield would be the most likely eventuality.'

[ArdeeBhoy]

It has happened with other clubs in other countries, though I can just about understand UEFA's ​'rationale'.

[DannyInvincible]

Emmet Malone in the IT this afternoon, reflected my thoughts (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/managerial-appointment-looks-more-likely-after-fai-confirms-latvia-date-1.1579869) on the matter:)

'Uefa, meanwhile, yesterday declined to confirm reports by the BBC that it would refuse permission to Celtic to play a European game in Dublin next summer in the event that such a request was made.
The organisation merely pointed to the rule book which states on the one hand that such games can only be moved to another jurisdiction on grounds of safety or as a result of a disciplinary measure but then, in the very next section, appears to allow more scope for flexibility in the event that a club’s home ground is unavailable which it would be in this instance.
Celtic, in any case, had stated that staging the game at Murrayfield would be the most likely eventuality.'

I'm not sure where Malone is seeing this "scope for flexibility". The relevant regulations (http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/79/68/69/1796869_DOWNLOAD.pdf) read as follows:


Venues

12.07 In principle, a club must play all its matches in the competition at one and the same ground. Matches may be played either at the ground of the home club or at another ground in the same or another city within the territory of its association, or, if so decided by the UEFA administration and/or the UEFA disciplinary bodies, in the territory of another UEFA member association for reasons of safety or as a result of a disciplinary measure. In principle, venues are approved only if direct international flights and/or charter flights are able to land within an acceptable distance of the venue, in the country of the club concerned. If the match is being played in another city or country, the venue is
subject to the approval of the UEFA administration.

Alternative venues

12.08 If, at any time during the season, the UEFA administration deems that, for whatever reason, some venues may not be fit for staging a match, UEFA may consult the associations and clubs concerned and ask them to propose an alternative venue, in accordance with the UEFA requirements. Should such an association and club not be able to propose an acceptable alternative venue by the deadline set by the UEFA administration, UEFA may select an alternative, neutral venue and make all the necessary arrangements for the staging of the match together with the relevant association and local authorities. In both cases, the costs of staging the match are borne by the home club. The UEFA administration takes a final decision on the match venue in due time.

Any alternative venue has to be proposed in accordance with UEFA requirements, and one of those requirements is that the home games of any competing club must be played in a city in the territory of that club's association. If there's a suitable stadium available in Scotland - and there is/will be, as far as I understand - then Celtic's home games will be played there.


It has happened with other clubs in other countries, though I can just about understand UEFA's ​'rationale'.

Have UEFA granted clubs in other countries permission to play their home games outside of the territory of their association? Which clubs have been granted such permission? Besides the likes of Derry City, of course. ;D

[Stuttgart88]

So Celtic need to pay a fan to throw a bottle onto the pitch when they play AC Milan, or in their last Europa League game. Seemples.

[ArdeeBhoy]

A certain team that died for one, Danny and also seen one of my club sides play elsewhere due to, er, war.

[DannyInvincible]

I would imagine such exceptions would have been granted or enforced due to safety and security concerns though, which are expressly permitted by the regulations. It was in the UEFA Cup, but when Shels played Rangers at "home" in Tranmere, that was similarly for safety and security reasons. I'm not aware of any club that has been granted permission to play in another country simply because it would prefer to do so over other available stadia in its own association's territory.

[geysir]

I'm not sure where Malone is seeing this "scope for flexibility". The relevant regulations (http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/79/68/69/1796869_DOWNLOAD.pdf) read as follows:
There's scope for flexibility, but not much.
Depends on what's available in Scotland during that time, doesn't it? and whether there is any legit argument against not using the available stadiums.
Murrayfield is under the jurisdiction of the Rugby Union? That stadium does not exist in sphere of UEFA as an available stadium, unless Celtic are able to get their permission to use it.

Shelbourne were really fcked by UEFA weren't they, having to play that home game against Rangers in Tranmere, all those years ago, because of safety considerations?

[A N Mouse]

There's scope for flexibility, but not much.
Depends on what's available in Scotland during that time, doesn't it? and whether there is any legit argument against not using the available stadiums.

There's no shortage of venues in and around Glasgow (Fir Park - good times) - just slightly smaller than they'd like. Not a good enough reason to move jurisdiction.


Murrayfield is under the jurisdiction of the Rugby Union? That stadium does not exist in sphere of UEFA as an available stadium, unless Celtic are able to get their permission to use it.

It exists in the sphere of Scotland, and existed in the sphere of UEFA before.

As previously noted this entire non-news story seems to be about gaining leverage with Murrayfield, which would appear to be the only game in town as far as Celtic are concerned.

Why else would they be talking to uefa about asking uefa about asking the fai about asking the gaa (where's that photo?) can they use their gaff? When the alternative is asking about using a big stadium in Edinburgh!

And sure it's only the opening ceremony. If they get through the first round just fecking ask to play at home first! Problem solved!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fir Park? Are you for real...

[Charlie Darwin]

Fir Park might be out if the Commonwealth Games organisers have a non-compete clause. Murrayfield is the obvious location.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Er, we know. Geysir posted a quote saying that 4 days ago...

[Charlie Darwin]

No he didn't.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Oh yes he did...

[Charlie Darwin]

Nothing about non-compete clauses there.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Murrayfield! Doh.
That and Hertz played there about 10 years ago.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well I was just expressing an opinion that Murrayfield is the obvious, it's irrelevant whether geysir read the same in an article.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well it is in this case, as he mentioned it first! As in a story from the IT.
Anyway, saying that is a truism, as just repeating received wisdom on the matter.

[Charlie Darwin]

I have assessed all of the risks and have decided that repeating received wisdom is not a dangerous action.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha.

[A N Mouse]

Fir Park? Are you for real...

There a few smaller grounds dotted around Glasgow. God forbid Murrayfield was unavailable - they might have to use one.

For some reason that was the first one sprang to mind :D

VB_tIE6u0J8

[ArdeeBhoy]

Mouse,
If not one of the three in Glasgow, then one of the three in Edinburgh...

Gretna is miles away!

[A N Mouse]

Mouse,
If not one of the three in Glasgow, then one of the three in Edinburgh...

Gretna is miles away!

:rolleyes: You're as far out as fanad lighthouse

[Charlie Darwin]

Setanta are showing Manchester City against CSKA Moscow instead of Juventus-Real. This must be some sort of crap joke.

[geysir]

There's no shortage of venues in and around Glasgow (Fir Park - good times) - just slightly smaller than they'd like. Not a good enough reason to move jurisdiction.
It exists in the sphere of Scotland, and existed in the sphere of UEFA before.
Just how do you imagine UEFA can order a game to be played at Murrayfield?
Perhaps UEFA can order a game to be played at Croke Park for that matter?:rolleyes:
All that time spent waiting for the GAA to pass a motion at congress when all that had to be done was Platini to issue an order that the GAA open up the gates:rolleyes:
It's up to the club to find out from the Rugby authority if Murrayfield is available for rent, and could they see it in their heart to let Celtic use it. UEFA can't mandate a game to be played on the grounds of another sport.

Fir Park might be ruled out for safety reasons. Way too small to deal with the hordes clambering to get inside.The club Celtic draw might also want the game to be played at a 50 -60k sized stadium. Liverpool or Manchester might be realistic, depends on what is available inside Scotland.
As I have always said, it's a remote chance that the game be moved out of Scotland but it can't be totally ruled out at this stage.

[geysir]

Setanta are showing Manchester City against CSKA Moscow instead of Juventus-Real. This must be some sort of crap joke.
It's a no brainer which game looks to be the game of the evening.
It's on sky sports isn't it? Gerry "about that goal"Armstrong is co commentator.
I'll go for Juve,
so put your money on Madrid.

[geysir]

Not bad from Casillas, making a save with his boot, a save worthy of an average, 2 bob handball goalie.
Ronaldo getting plenty of bird tonight. If Howard Webb does fall for one of Ronaldo's strokes, there will be a riot.

[geysir]

The perfectly struck penalty from Juve puts them one up.
I thought it wasn't a peno, that the defender clearly got a foot on the ball, then the replay showed Webb got it spot on.
The turf is a bit slippy out there, players are picking up yellows for sliding through with the tackle.

[Charlie Darwin]

Balls.

[Charlie Darwin]

Unballs.

[geysir]

Petered out after Juve equalised, as if Juve had a 'knowing' that Copenhagen were going to hold on in the other game. It will be tight for Juve but you never can rule out the Germans Italians in a qualification group.

Dwight Yorke as a pundit? whats the world coming to? next we will be having pundits running our team. Dwight thought the Madrid defender made a rashional tackle to concede the peno.

[DannyInvincible]

Mouse,
If not one of the three in Glasgow, then one of the three in Edinburgh...

Gretna is miles away!

Derry played Gretna in Fir Park.

This was Gretna's home patch:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Raydale_Park_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1157411.jpg

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, but WTF have either to do with Fanad Lighthouse...
Celtic are highly unlikely to play a CL qualifier at Fir Park.

Like was said earlier, there's probably only 6 grounds in Scotland that can accommodate a Celtic home game. No-one in their right mind would take it to Motherwell.

[geysir]

If I were a Derry supporter, I'd be a bit shy to be posting a photo, highlighting another club's ramshackle 'stadium'.


http://www.footballzz.co.uk/img/estadios/059/47059_ori_the_brandywell.jpg

[DannyInvincible]

Ah, c'mon, not even the Brandywell's infamously-sloping pitch is as lopsided as Gretna's there!

Or maybe that's just amateur photography for you... :(

[A N Mouse]

To begin with I was slightly bemused by the presumptuousness of this.

But having looked into it it seems incredibly cynical, and slightly sickening.

First up is there any reason they couldn't use their own stadium (or for that matter Ibrox or Hampden) the week of 16th July?

Now this year at the same stage of the competition they played Cliftonville - attendance < 30K. Ignoring the big 3 Glasgow stadia, only one other venue in Scotland could accommodate that many. But let’s face it, if they're only half filling their home, what are the chances of doing any better in a big ground in Edinburgh.

So what's the solution to having a half empty stadium? Pack out a smaller venue? No, if on there was a way of filling a big stadium. Some less discerning fans willing to go and watch anything as long as it say celtic on the tin. I think I got it - thousands of rabid wallets just waiting to be emptied, maybe even enough to fill a big stadium - if only they could take the franchise on the road - the nfl do it all the time, what's the problem?

[geysir]

Ah, c'mon, not even the Brandywell's infamously-sloping pitch is as lopsided as Gretna's there!

Or maybe that's just amateur photography for you... :(

Is there a photo edit software program in existence that could possibly add a bit of stadium gloss to that photo of the Brandywell?
An illusion of a stadium?

[geysir]

To begin with I was slightly bemused by the presumptuousness of this.

But having looked into it it seems incredibly cynical, and slightly sickening.

First up is there any reason they couldn't use their own stadium (or for that matter Ibrox or Hampden) the week of 16th July?

Now this year at the same stage of the competition they played Cliftonville - attendance < 30K. Ignoring the big 3 Glasgow stadia, only one other venue in Scotland could accommodate that many. But let’s face it, if they're only half filling their home, what are the chances of doing any better in a big ground in Edinburgh.

So what's the solution to having a half empty stadium? Pack out a smaller venue? No, if on there was a way of filling a big stadium. Some less discerning fans willing to go and watch anything as long as it say celtic on the tin. I think I got it - thousands of rabid wallets just waiting to be emptied, maybe even enough to fill a big stadium - if only they could take the franchise on the road - the nfl do it all the time, what's the problem?

Hampden Pk is definitely out and wont be used for football until well after the Games. Celtic Park in all probability will be in the process of preparation mode for the opening ceremony. Don't know about Ibrox.

[DannyInvincible]

What was the cause of this?: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/champions-league/2013/1107/485126-violence-mars-celtics-defeat-in-amsterdam/


Celtic's Champions League trip to Ajax has been marred by a clash between supporters and police in the centre of Amsterdam before kick-off, following which 15 fans have been arrested.

Amsterdam Police told Press Association Sport that fans armed with bottles and sticks attacked plain-clothed police in an incident described as "coming out of nowhere".

Eight police officers were injured with one knocked unconscious following the fighting in Dam Square, in the city centre.

Police said the majority of those arrested were Celtic fans, although it is believed that supporters from other clubs were also involved.

"At the end of the afternoon a large group of Celtic supporters attacked police officers in plain clothes," a spokesman told Press Association Sport.

"Eight were injured and one was knocked unconscious.

"A few of them had broken noses and needed stitches above their eyebrows and on their lips.

"Bottles and sticks were used in the attack which came out of nowhere.

"There were 15 arrests, mostly Celtic supporters."

[geysir]

It was a poor game for Celtic against Ajax. The squad looked to be stretched thin to provide 11 players, never mind a sub of any quality who can make an impact on a game. Commons just back from another injury was misfiring all night. Samaras and Amsterdam coffee shops don't mix.
It wasn't as poor as many of Celtic's away efforts in the CL but by recent standards in the CL, it was the worst.

[DannyInvincible]

Some more on the trouble in Amsterdam: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/desmond-kane/amsterdam-police-behave-no-better-ajax-casuals-during-171744814.html


...

Upon returning to the town square from the match, tales of violent skirmishes involving Celtic fans, the Dutch police and undercover policemen were all the rage among some dazed visitors.

Most visiting fans looked like they would have had trouble attempting to make sense of the city's infamous Red Light district, but there was apparently enough life in them to take on the cops.

As Aston Villa manager and former Celtic captain Paul Lambert pointed out on Thursday, it is difficult to swallow the belief that travelling fans were the main culprits of such goings on.

"I played for many years at Celtic and I never encountered any bother," said Lambert. "I played in the UEFA Cup final and we took over maybe 80-90,000 to Seville and there was not one arrest while we were there. Knowing the club and the fans the way I do, I find it incredible. I'm not sure they would have started anything."

A more believable tale comes from an eye witness who claimed hooded Ajax casuals emerging from the shadows were guilty of prompting the trouble.
The club's statement about a "high degree of provocation" is watertight.

When the drink is in the wit is out. It does not take much to set off a chaotic sequence of events by tossing a few bottles like petrol on a bonfire, especially when it seems to have been pre-planned by Dutch hooligans, but there is something deeply sinister about how local police handled the visiting fans.

Why was there a need for undercover police to mingle among the travelling fans? How many of those involved in the trouble had leanings towards Ajax? How many had a penchant for unnecessary violence?

These are all issues that have to be addressed as much as the police victims left strewn across the city centre amid the carnage. Judge for yourself on the video. Police training in the art of appropriate force is tossed to the wind like the flying debris that apparently made its way into the saturated surroundings.

From this vantage point of a good day out turned rotten, I would suggest some of those Dutch police were not acting in self-defence, but were grown men looking for trouble behind a badge. In my opinion, grown men looking to inflict damage with needless acts of violence. A pub frequented by Celtic fans publicly apologised to the visitors for the treatment doled out to them.

Can you imagine the outrage there would be in this country if a policeman began laying into a football fan with such an assault? Can you imagine the furore there would be if a British officer encouraged a dog to take a chunk of a fan's knee while his colleague held him? It seems to me that police brutality has never been so obvious.

Ajax casuals had also invaded a bar the night before the match to make off with a Celtic flag. It is fair to say Ajax boast an element of supporters whose behaviour is at odds with the tranquil surroundings of their city.

Their supporters are facing punishment from UEFA for their conduct in Glasgow a fortnight ago, and their brandishing of an offensive banner on Wednesday. Celtic have turned up at various places on the continent in recent times with little trouble including cities such as Milan, Barcelona and Lisbon.

This onlooker is not for one minute suggesting Celtic fans are whiter than white. No club can take 13,000 with them to the Netherlands, and expect everybody to behave themselves.

One aggressive sort had a go at me for donning an orange top, suggesting the lowest common denominator can still board a plane; but the vast majority of the Glasgow club's followers travel well around Europe. Ask the mayor of Seville about Celtic's fans.

That Celtic's supporters should run into such chaotic scenes in the Netherlands says more about Ajax fans and the incompetence of the Amsterdam Police than it does Celtic's travelling support.

"This happens all the time with Ajax," an apologetic Dutch fan told me the other night.

He was right. Manchester United fans were confronted by Ajax casuals during their Europa League match in Amsterdam last February, while around 25 Manchester City followers were picked up by police after battling with Ajax fans last October.

On the plane home yesterday, a ravaged Celtic follower made one telling statement that suggested Ajax's fans had sickened him off the joint, if not the joint. "I would never go back to Amsterdam to watch Celtic," he said.

Sad but wise. Amsterdam is a football city, but one that is better visiting when there is no football on.

I did think it a bit unusual to read about Celtic fans getting caught up in running battles with police.

[Stuttgart88]

BT outbids SKY for champions league rights. Over a billion quid for next 3 years. Just what football needs - more money!

[OwlsFan]

Yes but on the other hand it is good that Sky's near monopoly on sport is being broken.

On a separate note, the Ajax goal against Celtic was excellent. Surprised it didn't get more coverage but if it had been scored by a bigger team, perhaps it would.

[BonnieShels]

Yes but on the other hand it is good that Sky's near monopoly on sport is being broken.

On a separate note, the Ajax goal against Celtic was excellent. Surprised it didn't get more coverage but if it had been scored by a bigger team, perhaps it would.

Those minnows Ajax. :)

[Charlie Darwin]

City hung on for a good 4 1/2 minutes there.

[geysir]

Snow/hail in Istanbul, stops play.
They need a few more snow shovels, at this rate it will take an hour to clear the lines.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Abandoned.http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71663000/jpg/_71663247_020299610-1.jpg

[geysir]

Benfica are giving it welly against PSG, probably all in vain though as Olympiakos are a goal and a man ahead in their game.

[Charlie Darwin]

City hung on for a good 4 1/2 minutes there.
I always believed they'd do it.