The Flag Issue/Cheist an Bratach/The Fleg Prooblum

[DannyInvincible]

I'll find it. Cheers.

I don't think that episode is online any longer, unfortunately.

Another thing; why do so many media hacks and the likes of Arlene Foster assume that Sinn Féin are bluffing on the call for a border poll? I think they're deadly serious and are up for the challenge. It's a debate to which I'm looking forward as they advance more solid arguments and proposals in the near future.

[DannyInvincible]

"PM welcomes united Ireland 'rejection'": http://www.u.tv/News/PM-welcomes-united-Ireland-rejection/79c3c25b-b09e-4345-84fa-0409e1013a10


The British and Irish governments have expressed the view that the time is not right for a border poll to be held, especially as tensions remain over the policy regarding the flying of the Union flag.

But Sinn Féin have continued to campaign for the public to get to vote on the future of Northern Ireland and whether or not it should remain part of the United Kingdom.

The DUP, who have suggested "calling their bluff" on the issue, made David Cameron aware of the findings of a BBC Spotlight survey during Prime Minister's Questions on Wednesday.

"I sometimes try and avoid opinion polls, so I haven't seen that one," Mr Cameron told DUP Lagan Valley MP Jeffrey Donaldson and the House of Commons.

"But it looks like one that will lift the spirits of almost everyone in this House, because we believe in a United Kingdom and we believe in Northern Ireland being part of that United Kingdom."

Whether or not tensions exist due to the flag issue, a border poll debate will always prove contentious and provocative, so I don't see why the pre-existence of deep-rooted tensions (that have long existed and will continue to do so well into the future) should be used a valid reason to postpone talk of it.

[Not Brazil]

The egos have landed.

Cracks deepen between Oor Willie and Footie over protests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21366740

[Not Brazil]

Another thing; why do so many media hacks and the likes of Arlene Foster assume that Sinn Féin are bluffing on the call for a border poll? I think they're deadly serious and are up for the challenge. It's a debate to which I'm looking forward as they advance more solid arguments and proposals in the near future.

I'm certainly no PSF strategist, but they are calling for a Poll now - would they not have been better advancing more solid arguments and proposals (we've had nothing but fluffy old rhetoric from them so far) before seeking a Poll?

[DannyInvincible]

The egos have landed.

Cracks deepen between Oor Willie and Footie over protests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21366740

Isn't the purpose of the Ulster People's Forum to, well, y'know like, prevent further splits within unionism/loyalism?...


I'm certainly no PSF strategist, but they are calling for a Poll now - would they not have been better advancing more solid arguments and proposals (we've had nothing but fluffy old rhetoric from them so far) before seeking a Poll?

Well, they've gotten people talking at least. Although I don't see why they'd just throw themselves in at the deep end without any oxygen. I see a new website has been set up to advance the case: http://unitingireland.ie/

Haven't had a detailed look through it yet though.

[Not Brazil]

Isn't the purpose of the Ulster People's Forum to, well, y'know like, prevent further splits within unionism/loyalism?...


Don't really know what it's purpose is - I thought it was more like a "self help" group, formed by "da peeeple", for "da peeeple" to deal with their paranoia issues.

[Gather round]

In what way does it constitute bigotry exactly?

Check out this first draft of his classic 'Death of a Nationalist':

Then one hot day when the Field was rank
With Buckfast in the grass the angry Prods
Invaded the Garvaghy; I ducked through barricades
To a coarse croaking that I had not heard
Before. The air was thick with a Lambeg chorus.
Right down the gross-bellied Prods were marching
On roads; their bull necks pulsed like sails. Some hopped:
The flute and accordion were obscene threats. Some sat
Poised like mud grenades, their blunt heads farting.
I sickened, turned, and ran. The great slime kings
Were gathered there for vengeance and I knew
That if I dipped my hand the Apprentice Boys would clutch it...:p


but the phrasing, "NI to be joined with the Irish Republic", might imply that NI was to be subsumed into the already-existing state south of the border. Maybe, maybe not... But perhaps people would look at the notion differently if the idea of a completely new, revamped united Irish state was proposed?

I doubt it. But let's see details of his new revamping if you have them. Is it a two-part federation? Or one of four? Or a merger with the lost city of Atlantis?


Another thing; why do so many media hacks and the likes of Arlene Foster assume that Sinn Féin are bluffing on the call for a border poll? I think they're deadly serious and are up for the challenge

Basically because Arlene, Noel and the dogs in the street know that the Brit Govt. isn't going to call a poll when recent opinion surveys show so little support for a change. So the Shinners don't need to back down on the issue and can just go on blaming Westminster.


The phrasing of the questions and the obvious bias in its reporting made the whole experience a mockery. I was ashamed by that programme last night

The questions seemed fair enough to me. On the border poll, it's two pretty straightforward alternatives.

The hacks shouting at each other isn't so edifying, but sure we're used to them by now?


That they used phraseology last used in the 70s in the setting of the survey shows the fear that was there within the BBC that there may have been a different result

Hardly. They used the same largely predictable preamble that's been associated with every election and opinion poll for 40 years.

Look- if the BBC were worried about the result- and why would they be, controversy helps ratings- they wouldn't have held it in the first place.


I'm still so angry at Noel Thompson for ignoring the obvious bigotry of the bumpkin Foster last night

I thought Noel made every reasonable effort to shut her up, as he did with Gerry and Danny. Anyway, less of the picking on people from the countryside. That's my job.

[BonnieShels]

I completely forgot I had said I would track down some Bumpkin-bigotry. I'll aim to resolve this over the weekend.

[DannyInvincible]

Hehe, is this a Freudian slip on the Statement of Persons Nominated for the upcoming Mid-Ulster by-election?:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QFQpQ7-VZmM/USi5BARVTgI/AAAAAAAAFTE/3spTfZ2V560/s1600/electoral+parties.jpg

More seriously, however, in light of Sinn Féin putting Francie Molloy forward, Nigel Lutton is certainly an interesting choice as the agreed unionist candidate. Of course, he is a cousin of the DUP's David Simpson and his former-RUC reservist father was shot dead by the IRA in 1979. In 2007, David Simpson, whilst protected by parliamentary privilege in the House of Commons, named Francie Molloy as having been involved in the killing. Molloy naturally denied any such involvement and subsequently challenged anyone to make such a claim outside the British parliament; the implication being that he would sue them. No further accusations were forthcoming. Nevertheless, the choice of Lutton appears to be an attempt to ensure not only that the plight of victims of the Troubles will be highlighted via the campaign - which is fair enough - but also that the death of Lutton's father will feature prominently despite an absence of evidence to incriminate Molloy, perhaps in order to stoke the dormant unionist vote.

[Gather round]

Molloy naturally denied any such involvement and subsequently challenged anyone to make such a claim outside the British parliament; the implication being that he would sue them

Not necessarily. Sinn Fein politicians accused of IRA membership or other crimes don't always sue following denial, whether because of the cost or worried what further publicity might reveal.


Nevertheless, the choice of Lutton appears to be an attempt to ensure not only that the plight of victims of the Troubles will be highlighted via the campaign - which is fair enough - but also that the death of Lutton's father will feature prominently despite an absence of evidence to incriminate Molloy, perhaps in order to stoke the dormant unionist vote

Unionists can't win- their combined vote in 2010 was 33%- so it's basically a stunt to annoy SF. Even though the Unionist vote will likely fall from that figure.

Still, if Francie and Patsy are worried, they could always bring in Keef Gillespie as a Nationalist Unity candidate.

[DannyInvincible]

Not necessarily. Sinn Fein politicians accused of IRA membership or other crimes don't always sue following denial, whether because of the cost or worried what further publicity might reveal

Maybe so, although it's important to remember that nobody has repeated the claim outside of the protective parliamentary bubble.


Still, if Francie and Patsy are worried, they could always bring in Keef Gillespie as a Nationalist Unity candidate.

Ha, indeed. What did you make of his media trolling?

[Gather round]

Like other enthusiasts for abolishing the NI team, he's either a bored sh*t-stirrer, daydreaming Shinner or dim enough to think that merging two weak football teams makes one much stronger basically by definition.

Sorry, not giving ye much new insight there...

[DannyInvincible]

'Jamie Bryson: UVF were not terrorists': http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/headlines/jamie-bryson-uvf-were-not-terrorists-1-4827410


Ulster People’s Forum chair Jamie Bryson has caused outrage after claiming the UVF were not terrorists.

The prominent flags protestor, when challenged on the issue on Twitter on Monday night said he did not see loyalists as terrorists.

In a number of posts on his official account Mr Bryson said: “Loyalists were not terrorists. The IRA were the terrorists.” He then added: “I would not view the UVF as terrorists no.”

Twitter users expressed their disgust at the view, with some calling the Bangor man “scum”, “attention-seeking”, and one user saying “I almost feel sorry for you.”

Another user queried: “So those loyalists that murdered innocent Catholic civilians weren’t terrorists Jamie?”

Media commentator Alex Kane quoted Mr Bryson on Twitter, adding: “Try telling that to their victims and the families of their victims.”

Bizarre double standard.

[Charlie Darwin]

There is dangerous stupidity in this world, from all walks of life.

[Not Brazil]

'Jamie Bryson: UVF were not terrorists': http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/headlines/jamie-bryson-uvf-were-not-terrorists-1-4827410

Bizarre double standard.

Replicated by those, some of whom sit in Government in Northern Ireland, who believe that the Provos were not terrorists, but that Loyalist paramiliary organisations (eg, the UVF) were.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is this really that surprising? Idealogues on both sides will always see their side as the "good" side and the other as the "bad" side.

[jinxy lilywhite]

one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.

to be honest when are the people of northern ireland going to wake up and stand up to the politicans that they deal with on todays issues, education, law and order, support for the sick, elderley and vunerable in society, question then on what jobs initiative they have and how they implement it, how that 14 or 16 year old bum on the street is going to get a job, an economy where 60% of the workforce are civil servants instead of religious & national beliefs because at the end of the days, ideals are all well and good but they dont pay any bills

[Not Brazil]

Messrs Bryson and Frazer have been arrested this morning, and are being questioned by the PSNI about organising and participating in unlawful parades.

[DannyInvincible]

Frazer has since been charged and faces three counts of taking part in an unnotified public procession and obstructing traffic in a public place. He's due to appear at Belfast Magistrates Court tomorrow.

[BonnieShels]

So Kia are incurring the wrath of Unionists with their Provo...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0305/breaking47.html

[Charlie Darwin]

That is just fantastic. Honestly the hardest I've laughed in ages.

[BonnieShels]

That is just fantastic. Honestly the hardest I've laughed in ages.

You gotta love Greg. Taxpayers money really at work there.

However it ain't gonna be called Provo...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21678741

[gastric]

So if Kia needs a differnet name for the UK and Irish markets, I reckon we should help them out. In Australia we have the Toyota Kluger, maybe Kia could have the Kia Marger created out of the names Gerry and Martin. Less controversial and a great acknowledgement of two great men! :D

[Charlie Darwin]

Kia Ora is surely the cross-marketing opportunity they've been missing for decades.

[BonnieShels]

So if Kia needs a differnet name for the UK and Irish markets, I reckon we should help them out. In Australia we have the Toyota Kluger, maybe Kia could have the Kia Marger created out of the names Gerry and Martin. Less controversial and a great acknowledgement of two great men! :D

Or the Kia Gerrymander to cross the political and cultural divide.

[Eminence Grise]

Even simpler solution: keep the Provo name, but only sell it in orange.

[The Good Son]

You gotta love Greg.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21678741

I hope Gregory wasn't listening to Morning Ireland around 8am this morning. When the reviewing the papers, the presenter referred to 'the TD for East Derry'.

[BonnieShels]

Even simpler solution: keep the Provo name, but only sell it in orange.

The Henry Ford school of marketing.

[DannyInvincible]

Pure Derry's latest update: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=507015489344995&set=a.409305159116029.83149.385171594862719&type=1


REVEALED - FIVE MORE CARS THAT UNIONISTS DIDN’T WANT THE WORLD TO HAVE

Following the DUP’s well documented meltdown at the proposed new Kia ‘Provo’ concept car, we look back through history at five other car projects which failed after complaints from Northern Ireland Unionists.

1996 - The BMW .32 County Series
The usually efficient Germans made a balls of this car branding exercise, when they found themselves getting death threats from Mad Dog Johnny Adair over the naming of their new rural saloon line. He later tried to order one just so he could key it and smash the headlights in with a hammer.

1998 - The Ford Cemtex
This nippy family car was due to roll off the factory floors in the mid 90s until Big Ian Paisley kicked up a fuss in the House of Commons. It was later re-branded and released as the ‘Focus’, but unionists never forgot, owing to the statistically poor sales of this otherwise popular model in East Belfast, especially in green.

2002 - The Peugeot Punishment Beating
A bit of a risqué choice for the French car makers landed them in hot water with NI politicians over this otherwise unassuming large saloon car. It was planned to have blacked out windows, spacious back seats and removable Velcro number plates. Gregory Campbell actually busted a blood vessel in his temples whilst on the phone complaining to them.

2007 - The Vauxhall C’mon The Hoops
Originally planned as a fun, about town vehicle for young professionals, this controversial car was scrapped after the DUP complained to UK consumer council. The prototype was reportedly stolen by joyriders and found burnt out in Creggan.

2013 - The Lamborghini Taig
The classy Italian sports car manufacturer were shocked to find 350 Fleg protestors outside their headquarters at Bolognese, Italy after announcing this new car - forcing them to scrap £100million worth of R&D on the project. The DUP have never forgiven them though, advising members to avoid buying Diablo’s & Gallardo’s in favour of executive Skoda Octavia’s or Volvos.

[osarusan]

Red Honda Ulster was the best I've seen so far.

[DannyInvincible]

Red Honda Ulster was the best I've seen so far.

That's superb. Had to steal that one. :p

[BonnieShels]

That's superb. Had to steal that one. :p

You 'like' whore.

[gastric]

Sometines you have to despair at the cost of democratic processes. At least Bryson will be happy as it will probably get him elected to parliament.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/union-flag-protests-cost-20m-29116278.html

[DannyInvincible]

"£11 million of that has been new money that we have had to provide, the rest has been (the cost of) police officers' time not being spent on the things that matter," Mr Baggott explained afterwards.

"I think that it's a sadness. That money should have been spent on tackling drug dealers, it should have been spent on officers patrolling in the heart of our most disadvantaged areas, it should have been spent on people trafficking, it should have been spent on new technology, it's been wasted dealing with disturbances and disorder that should never have happened in the first place."

The chief constable's comments are somewhat odd. Perhaps they're in line with the official mentality of "normalisation" of society north of the border, but in a perverse, warped sort of way, it's as if he's normalising or legitimising certain types of disorder or crime - those that "matter" or occur in a "normal" society - whilst distinguishing or stigmatising others as "abnormal", or as a "waste" of resources - those from which people perhaps "should have moved on" - simply because he disagrees with the sentiment behind them or personally feels they shouldn't matter. Clearly, they do still matter to many people, as demonstrated by the fervency and longevity of the flag protests. Not that I necessarily agree with the sentiment behind the flag protests myself either, but it just seems a peculiar, if not false, or agenda-driven even, distinction to make. The police are there to deal with all types of crime and disorder, whatever the reasons for such disturbances may be.

From the perspective of a chief constable, why should flag protesting be stigmatised but drug dealing not, for example? The implication is that the flag issue isn't or shouldn't be a "real" or "serious" issue. There are social reasons for the occurrence of both, however; the flag protests did not erupt out of an alien bubble. I mean, for the sake of argument, you could attempt to arbitrarily isolate drug dealing or some other declared social ill in a similar vein and argue it's a waste of police resources/shouldn't matter because people should know better than to be dealing/purchasing/using drugs or whatever. It doesn't take away from the fact it remains a genuine issue, by the very fact of its existence, with which the police are obliged to deal with by law. Who is a chief constable to tell citizens which issues should and shouldn't matter to them? If anything, at least the peaceful elements of flag protesting adhered to democratic principles.

I'm not sure how coherently all that reads as I wrote it in a bit of a rush before work this morn prior to this edit, nor am I attempting to justify certain types of crime over others, but I think it gets my point across; just thought it an interesting observation.

And is Bryson actually planning on standing for election?!

[BonnieShels]

Francie Molloy unsurprisingly wins Mid-Ulster by-election.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0308/375029-mid-ulster-by-election/

[DannyInvincible]

Francie Molloy unsurprisingly wins Mid-Ulster by-election.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0308/375029-mid-ulster-by-election/

No luck for the Social Democratic and Unionist Party candidate then...

[gastric]

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/celebrity-chef-paul-rankin-blames-flag-protests-for-belfast-restaurant-closure-29155782.html

[DannyInvincible]

'British Legion rejects Belfast cenotaph flags proposal': http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22200174


The Royal British Legion has said it is opposed to moves to fly the union flag at Belfast City Hall's cenotaph every day of the year.

In a statement, the legion said its Garden of Remembrance was "sacrosanct" and it did not want it politicised.

The legion was responding to a DUP proposal to fly the flag at the cenotaph daily.

The BBC revealed on Wednesday that the legion was among interest groups with concerns about that proposal.

Last December, the council voted to restrict the flying of the union flag over city hall to designated dates.

This followed an equality impact assessment. But loyalists were outraged by the move and weeks of street protests, sometimes violent, ensued. A number of police officers were hurt during disturbances, several politicians received death threats and homes and property were damaged.

In a statement on Thursday, the British Legion said it did not want its Garden of Remembrance being drawn into the flags debate.

"As the nation's custodian of remembrance, the legion is committed to helping everyone understand the importance of remembrance, so those sacrifices are never forgotten," the statement said.

"Remembrance of all who have fallen should unite, not divide. It is sacrosanct and should not be politicised in any way.

"We would therefore oppose the Garden of Remembrance becoming involved in the flag debate for that reason and, in the interests of keeping remembrance free of controversy, cannot agree to any change to the current policy of flag-flying at the cenotaph."

[geysir]

Next we will be getting a statement from the KKK condemning the DUP + Union Flag dogmatists over their extreme politics, inflexible attitudes and anti-social actions.

[DannyInvincible]

'Protestant Coalition emerges as NI's newest political party': http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22279352


A new political party has been registered in Northern Ireland.

The Protestant Coalition's website states it is an "anti-politics, political party" whose priority is "the empowerment of the PUL (Protestant Unionist Loyalist) community".

The party's electoral profile lists the party's leader as James Dowson.

Mr Dowson, a former British National Party fundraiser, is currently on bail over protests connected to the union flag's status at Belfast City Hall.

On its website the coalition said it has "no political ambitions" and is constituted for three years.

Bizarre stuff.

[DannyInvincible]

'Loyalists ask us to respect their flag as they burn everyone else's?': http://www.irishcentral.com/story/news/people_and_politics/loyalists-ask-us-to-respect-their-flag-as-they-burn-everyone-elses-215221501.html


International flags found on top of loyalist bonfires in Northern Ireland this week have reportedly included: the Irish flag, the Kenyan flag, the Indian flag, the Polish flag, the Mexican flag, the Gay Pride flag and for good measure I suppose Ivory Coast flag.

But what on Earth did the Ivory Coast do to offend loyalism? That's the unlikely question we must ask ourselves having just learned that their flag is adorning a loyalist bonfire this week.

One Belfast bonfire even featured a statue of the Virgin Mary (that was later removed and handed to local Catholic priest Father Gary Donegan, before it could be engulfed).

So, that, I suppose.

All of this leads us to a question: what is going on with loyalism? Aren't the stresses and strains of modern life already challenging enough in this century without the need to offer annual widespread mortal insult to the people you otherwise don't ordinarily meet and don't know?

Why would loyalism intentionally set out to insult the people of the Ivory Coast? What on earth could that African nation have done to Northern Ireland? Or Mexico, for that matter? Or Poland? What insult has Poland offered loyalism?

Recall for a moment that the Northern Irish peace process was almost completely destabilized last year by the so-called 'respect our flag' movement and the widespread months long civil disturbances they caused.

Loyalism is asking us to respect its flag as it burns everyone else's? That takes a measure of self-defeating arrogance that you don't often see in life.

Why are such national flags being burned? Are they being lazily associated with Catholicism or is it just a case of crass any-foreign-flag-will-do xenophobia?

This was a photo my friend took overlooking the Fountain estate in the "City of Culture" on the eve of the Twelfth:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1017346_702077830471_314756817_n.jpg

And I thought the following line from this story about Nigel Dodds being knocked unconscious during rioting after a parade was blocked (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23295307) was priceless:


"Police were attacked with ceremonial swords as well as missiles."

At least they were cultural about it...

[Eminence Grise]

Anyone else think that looks like a giant homemade Dalek?

[jinxy lilywhite]

these guys hate taighs, jews, muslins, blacks, papists, poles, Slovaks, Latvians, Lithuanians, French, Spanish, Italians but my god they love jesus christ

[Spudulika]

these guys hate taighs, jews, muslins, blacks, papists, poles, Slovaks, Latvians, Lithuanians, French, Spanish, Italians but my god they love jesus christ

They also hate denims, chinos, tarpaulins and other materials as it chafes.

I advise anyone who wants a good laugh to watch Russia Today's coverage. I know that "news" has moved away from being news and trying to be balanced (or pretending to be), but when there is a group that is so unbalanced, how can you ask them "Well, put your side forward." Like any scum promoting hatred and violence, they should be deprived of the oxygen of media. Turn off the cameras, send in the heavy squad and soon they'll cop on. I've grown to feel the same way about "hoolies", if the police used live ammunition and the media refused to glorify them, Danny Dyer wouldn't be long in copping himself on.

[BonnieShels]

Oh look some commentary on the issue of rioting:





When will we stop surrendering to the idiocy of loyalism?

“I think unionism hasn’t adapted because it knows what it’s against better than what it’s for” – Susan McKay

So the annual celebration of Irish loyalist culture continued this week culminating in the traditional parades on the “Glorious Twelfth”.

Nearly all but a handful passed off with little incident. However the usual hotspots still managed to make headlines on the national and international stages. Whilst it initially had all the hallmarks of what everyone in Ireland is used to in mid-July, there was a menace this year that had been present in the Flag protests of last December and January.

Nigel Dodds, Democratic Unionist MP for the Belfast North constituency, became a victim as he was knocked unconscious whilst appealing for calm among his “constituents”. The incident itself was laughed off around Twitter and Facebook, even affected republican youths found it hilarious. But I ask the question, what if he had died?

I am no fan of Nigel or his party, nor am I remotely in agreement with his politics but this incident highlights the fact that this is not your common-or-garden Catholic-v-Protestant; nationalist-v-unionist; Us-v-them situation. It was this particular incident that showed that there is a serious disconnect between the working-class loyalist and society in general.

I would like to say “loyalist youth” but it’s clear from the pictures that have emerged from Ardoyne and other parts of North and East Belfast that there are more than so-called youths involved here.

So what is going on within Irish loyalism that has these people inflicting their dissatisfaction at the PSNI and local politicians in such a violent manner?

Since the death of David Ervine, working class loyalism has been lacking a figurehead of any substance, and that is not meant to be a slight on Dawn Purvis, his successor as Progressive Unionist leader. David was no angel and was seen by some as a reformed terrorist and a hypocrite. However his influence and charisma showed a positive future for Irish loyalism and that could only be a welcome thing.

Unfortunately since his untimely death in 2007 loyalists have had no one really to look up to, and the vacuum has been filled with tension, loss, Jamie Bryson and Willie Frazer.

Loyalism as a movement is flawed and it is this flaw that is bringing the violence of the last week and the so-called “Fleg protests” last December and January to the fore of the national consciousness. Again.

The subservient nature of working-class loyalism towards their so-called “betters” within society is well-documented. This serfdom worked out well once you were doing better than your downtrodden and victimised Catholic/Nationalist neighbour but since this is no longer the case and nationalists are moving away from this sort of “Us- v-Them” world in their droves, loyalists have lost their unique selling point as they see it. “If we can’t hate Fenians who can we hate?”

I see this as the root of issues within loyalism. This disconnect has manifested itself in violent and angry ways. They feel a disaffection with the political process which no longer guarantees them supremacy over their nationalist neighbour and it is the result of this, we see needless violence again on the streets of Belfast for the last week.

To equate these issues to simply because of the banning of the return leg of the Twelfth March through Ardoyne on Friday last is unwise at best and quite naïve.

So what can be done about this?

The only solution is for Irish loyalism to grow up and start acting responsibly and setting out what it wants for the future. Simply stating that it wants to maintain the north of Ireland’s status as part of the United Kingdom whilst “defending” Protestant culture from the perfidious Fenian is no longer good enough.

Loyalism deserves better. Ulster deserves better. And above all Ireland deserves better.

http://www.krank.ie/category/opinions/when-will-we-stop-surrendering-to-the-idiocy-of-loyalism/

So eh yeah, lemme know what ye think and share and retweet the hell out of it if ye must. :)

[DannyInvincible]

Basil McCrea on 'Respect for Flags': http://blogs.qub.ac.uk/compromiseafterconflict/2013/09/15/respect-for-flags/


Does the Union flag represent the United Kingdom or is it a marker in a sectarian battlefield? When the flag of the country hangs tattered from a lamppost, so does our society. When it is wrapped around someone during a riot or used to attack the police, it is defiled. In no other country would this be allowed.

The Union flag and the flags of all states should be treated with respect by Governments, politicians and individuals within society – the Union flag and the flag of other states are not and should not be used as tribal symbols.

This year there are more flags, bigger flags and more overtly challenging flags on the streets of Northern Ireland. The flying of UVF flags with the simple expedient of adding the number 1913 does not make them historical artefacts. What happened to the loyalism which took many risks to deliver peace?

The flying of flags in such a manner is an affront to the majority of citizens, most of whom support Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom. The flying of flags in such a manner is a form of intimidation, it is sectarian and yes, it does deter investment, it does destroy business and it does make a house harder to sell.

It is time for such flags to come down.

The 20th Century parties refuse to question those who put them up, let alone insist that they should be taken down, and in doing so they refuse to show the Union flag and other national flags the respect they deserve. When Paul Girvan believes it is acceptable to burn the flag of the Republic of Ireland on a bonfire, should we be surprised that the DUP refuses to stand up and call for the Union flag to be respected?

We have lost control of our public spaces to faceless individuals with no interest in a common future. When it is deemed acceptable to burn national flags and let them be used as markers of segregation, our society and democracy are in a bad place. The anonymous and prolonged flying of flags is a challenge to the rule of law, a challenge to a common future, a challenge to our community. We dare not ignore them!

The Life and Times Survey shows that 74% of the population do not support the flying of flags from lampposts in their neighbourhood. This ‘silent majority’ needs to make its voice heard. There is a need to reclaim the streets and help bring genuine civic pride back into disaffected communities. As Northern Ireland slides towards the hard-line the potential consequences of doing and saying nothing continues to grow. To live in a modern, tolerant and peaceful democracy is a privilege. It is not guaranteed. It is worth defending. It is worth voting for.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auuFi2lnkFo

[DannyInvincible]

As the plot is well and truly lost, Willie Frazer arrives to court today dressed up as Abu Hamza with Bryson dressed up as... Actually, I have no idea what's going on with Bryson.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVKSN-uCQAEuwsd.jpg:large

More comedy here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24294969


Loyalist campaigner Willie Frazer arrived at Belfast's Laganside court on Friday dressed as radical Muslim cleric Abu Hamza.

He was wearing a black robe, skullcap, a fake beard, an eye-patch and hooked hand.

Mr Frazer, 53, was protesting at being charged under legislation that, he claims, was brought in to deal with militant Islamic preachers.

He faces charges linked to union flag demonstrations in January.

Mr Frazer was accompanied by other prominent flag protesters, Jim Dowson and Jamie Bryson.

In a statement, he said the only people in the United Kingdom to be charged under these "hate preaching laws" have been peaceful Protestant/Christian protesters from Northern Ireland.

The loyalist, from Markethill, County Armagh, faces three charges of taking part in an un-notified public procession. He also faces a charge of obstructing traffic, possession of a prohibited weapon and encouraging or assisting an offence to be committed.

He is due to appear in court again next week.

[DannyInvincible]

Oul' Wullie just can't stop giving: http://m.u.tv/News/School-%E2%80%98IRA-youth-HQ-in-flags-mix-up/a415e119-9230-4265-b9d5-a16348618fac


IRA HQ claim over school's Italian flag

http://img.u.tv/galleries/777/300x168/crop/StPatricksDonaghmore_17052012.jpg

A victims' campaigner has labelled a Co Tyrone primary school an IRA training ground, after mistaking an Italian flag outside the building for an Irish tricolour.
Willie Frazer hit out at St Patrick's Primary in Donaghmore, posting a picture of the school flying the flags of Poland, Turkey and Italy on Facebook.

Seeming to mistake the red in the Italian flag for orange and thinking it was an Irish flag, he commented: "This is a school in Tyrone flying the Irish flag on the school grounds why".

The 51-year-old founder of Families Acting for Innocent Relatives also claimed the school was "the junior headquarters of SF/IRA youth, or it may as well be".


I wounder do they also train the children in how to use weapons, for it seems they can do what they wont. [sic]
- Willie Frazer

The school was flying the flags as part of a European project, during which 11 teachers from the countries represented visited the school.

St Patrick's principal Dera Calahane expressed shock at "how vindictive and inciteful the comments were".

She said: "The comments made are inaccurate. The three flags on display were the Italian, Polish and Turkish national flags.

"These were flying as part of the welcome to our Comenius Partner Schools who were visiting at the time.

"It appears some individual has mistaken the Italian flag for the Irish flag. The school is currently taking legal advice and is bringing the matter to the PSNI."

Mrs Calahane added that, although the visiting teachers were not aware of the incident, she fears they could find out.

"I would hate to think that the school's relationship would be damaged," she added.

The flags have since been taken down by the school and the pictures have been removed from Facebook.

Mr Frazer further commented on the situation on the social networking site, posting a message which said: "The flag seen flying at this school is not the irish tricolour, and it may look very like it but i can asure people it is not. [sic]"

A PSNI spokesperson said police have spoken to those involved "in an attempt to resolve what appears to have been a misunderstanding regarding the flying of flags at the school".

[The Fly]

That's soooo last year.

[DannyInvincible]

Ah, joke's on me. The date hadn't even registered with me. Saw it pop up on my Facebook newfeed this eve and just assumed it was recent.