Champions League 2012-13

[pineapple stu]

Can't believe Niang's miss. Still, if Milan score they will be in with a very good shout.
Big miss alright, but I've been thinking since about 20 minutes in that Milan need to score twice to get through. I think that's beyond them. Barca are just that good tonight.

[pineapple stu]

And that goes a good way to proving my point! 3-0.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Milan's body language suggested they already knew they were out. Barcelona are just schooling them.

[pineapple stu]

And 4-0. Just when it had been looking like AC might sneak the goal they needed.

Been a quality game.

[geysir]

Messi bottled the hat trick :)

Brilliant game, Barca redefine, 'that's what the CL is all about'.

[Charlie Darwin]

And 4-0. Just when it had been looking like AC might sneak the goal they needed.

Been a quality game.
I thought Barcelona would give it everything but I really didn't expect this. Milan didn't even play badly, Barcelona basically just turned up and said to them "look, thanks for coming but there was really no need."

Go go gadget Galatasaray, 3-2 win at the end will do nicely for their co-efficient.

[geysir]

Either the the ITV pundits are a stand-up crew or someone has stolen their stools.

[Charlie Darwin]

The arcing camera angle only heightens the ridiculousness of the situation. Roy's choice of shoes is outrageous.

[geysir]

The arcing camera angle only heightens the ridiculousness of the situation. Roy's choice of shoes is outrageous.
Brown shoes don't make it?

[BonnieShels]

I didn't enjoy it that much if I'm honest. Not at all my cup of tea to watch a team schooled when I don't trust the team doing the schooling.

It was TOO good from Barca. The sort of good that's starting to make me think that there's more to La Masia than excellent coaches.

:(

[Charlie Darwin]

Brown shoes don't make it?
With a black/charcoal suit it's just anarchy. For what died the sons of Róisín, etc.

[geysir]

You're showing a rare glimpse of your feminine side, Charlie.

[Charlie Darwin]

I take umbrage at that. Is Paul Galvin showing his feminine side? Actually, nevermind.

[pineapple stu]

Before I forget - what's the point of showing slow-mo replays of Messi's first goal in particular? It looked magical in normal speed; slow-mo took away from the goal if anything. Give us normal-speed replays!

Galatasaray v Schalke looked a good game too.

[Closed Account 2]

I think if Milan had been at full strength they would have gone through on the night. De Jong has been injured since before Christmas, he would have been a better option to stifle the midfield. Without Pazzini (injured) and Balotelli (cup tied) they had no physcial presence upfront with El Sharahawi and Niang being a bit too slight, there was no pressure release and they couldn't get the ball out of their half, it was almost like they were playing with two wingers instead of strikers. Compare this with 10 man Chelsea last year, who could constantly hit the ball long to Drogba and watch him either win a header or get fouled. There is clearly now a way of beating this Barcelona as Chelsea, Inter, Real Madrid have demonstrated, but you need tactical discipline and you have to deny them space both in your box and a good 30 yards in front of your box. Milan didn't have this tactical discipline last night and were hampered by injury and also by bizzare team selections (Constant at left back ahead of De Sciglio, Bonera or even Antonini). I know the love-in has restarted but I think Barcelona could come a cropper against a top level team like Dortmund, Real or Bayern.

[BonnieShels]

I think if Milan had been at full strength they would have gone through on the night. De Jong has been injured since before Christmas, he would have been a better option to stifle the midfield. Without Pazzini (injured) and Balotelli (cup tied) they had no physcial presence upfront with El Sharahawi and Niang being a bit too slight, there was no pressure release and they couldn't get the ball out of their half, it was almost like they were playing with two wingers instead of strikers. Compare this with 10 man Chelsea last year, who could constantly hit the ball long to Drogba and watch him either win a header or get fouled. There is clearly now a way of beating this Barcelona as Chelsea, Inter, Real Madrid have demonstrated, but you need tactical discipline and you have to deny them space both in your box and a good 30 yards in front of your box. Milan didn't have this tactical discipline last night and were hampered by injury and also by bizzare team selections (Constant at left back ahead of De Sciglio, Bonera or even Antonini). I know the love-in has restarted but I think Barcelona could come a cropper against a top level team like Dortmund, Real or Bayern.

Completely and 100% agree. And more that it does.

[geysir]

Predictable reaction from the reductionists, full of ifs and buts :)
True enough though, Milan were at some disadvantage, Niang is no Tony Watt.

Milan had a 2 goal lead and play football their way, not like Madrid or Chelsea.
They got off to a bad start in Serie A but since late November when they beat Juve, they have been the best performing team in the league. It took a special performance from Barca, where most everything goes right, in order to overcome that deficit and Barca are a joy to watch when everything goes just right.

[Closed Account 2]

I'm not quite sure I'd say Milan "played their game" in the sense that they played the way they would choose to. I think that Milan would desperately have wanted to play with a presence upfront. In the league they tend to have Balotelli (who is a reason for their resurgance in the League, not the only reason but a big one) or Pazzini as a player to hold the ball up. They were missing both of these players last night and those are the sort of players you want to have against Barcelona's defence as they will struggle with physical attackers. In the first leg Milan's second goal came about after Sergio Buscuits fouled Pazzini, last year Drogba pretty much carried 10 man Chelsea for that second leg semi (winning almost every header and "earning" free kicks in a way that outdid even Barca), Diego Milito set up 2 and scored the 3rd in the fantastic 3-1 win for Inter. Every good team will get chances against Barcelona, and if you have a physical player upfront (as opposed to the winger Niang and El Sharawary) you will have a much better chance of not only generating more chances but also putting those chances away. I don't think Chelsea would have won last year without Drogba, I don't think Inter would have won without Milito and so Milan without any physcial striker, were not able to play their optimal game, and so had a much reduced chance of scoring/going through.

[Charlie Darwin]

Porto have ****ed it up.

2-0 Arsebal! 5 minutes to go!

[BonnieShels]

I think I'm in love even moreso with Philip Lahm. Le sigh. The guy is just something else with the ball at his feet drifting through midfield. L

[Charlie Darwin]

Eamo is a huge fan of this Oxford-Chamberlain lad.

[BonnieShels]

Eamo is a huge fan of this Oxford-Chamberlain lad.

Oxford-Cambridge you mean! :P

[geysir]

I thought Porto were certs to get through that second leg, they blew it big time, probably more so in the first leg when they should have scored 4.

[BonnieShels]

Why is there all this sympathy for Arsenal? It's insane.

[geysir]

I'm not quite sure I'd say Milan "played their game" in the sense that they played the way they would choose to. I think that Milan would desperately have wanted to play with a presence upfront. In the league they tend to have Balotelli (who is a reason for their resurgance in the League, not the only reason but a big one) or Pazzini as a player to hold the ball up.
Milan have been resurgent in Serie A since they beat Juve in late November, Balotelli joined them in February. Before Balotelli came they won 7, drew 1, lost 1, (since nov25). After Balotelli joined, they have w4 d1.

[geysir]

Why is there all this sympathy for Arsenal? It's insane.
Are you referring to the RTE panel? It's all epl focus chat there, thank God for Dunphy and his expertise around the foreign leagues.:rolleyes:

Why do RTE send a commentary team to these games, including Tony o'D, for what? the post match meaningless interview? Why can't they do what most every small station does, just commentate over the match feed and pretend they are there?

[BonnieShels]

I prefer if the commentators are there to be honest. But that's nothing to do with what I was asking.

Basically all over the media last night there were posts and articles about unlucky plucky arsenal.

it just defies all rationale. At least all the English clubs are out now though.

Barca v Dortmund
Bayern v Galatasary
Malaga v Juve
Real v PSG

[geysir]

I prefer if the commentators are there to be honest.
Of course it adds that bit extra of atmosphere and commentary quality.
It's another discussion, but RTE don't have to send the commentary team out there for CL games in order to maintain good standards of CL coverage. Maybe there is some research showing that the extra Irish viewers attracted away from Sky tv coverage towards RTE because of their live commentary, means extra advert revenue, means the commentary team costs are covered.
In the absence of that research, i'd prefer a few more euros from the sport's department kitty, thrown at the MNS.

[Closed Account 2]

Milan have been resurgent in Serie A since they beat Juve in late November, Balotelli joined them in February. Before Balotelli came they won 7, drew 1, lost 1, (since nov25). After Balotelli joined, they have w4 d1.

Those 8 games since Juventus (but before Balotelli) were all against teams outside the top 6 (Catania, Torino, Pescara, Roma, Siena, Sampdoria, Bologna and Atalanta). Even the Roma match (which they lost) was against a team that's 7th and two of those wins, Pescara and Siena, came against teams in the relegation zone. Obviously you can only beat what's put in front of you, but those fixtures (with the exception of Roma) were all ones Milan would hope to do well in.

If you look at their 6 games since Balotelli (post feb), you have Udinese, Cagliari, Parma, Inter, Lazio, Genoa. Two of those teams are top 6 (Inter, Lazio) and none are in the relegation zone (although Genoa are very close) - they havent lost any of those 6 games in arguably a harder set of opponents. It's interesting to note that across those 6 game Balotelli has got 5 goals and 1 assist, so in all those six games (except the draw with Inter) he's provided something concrete to the wins (and draw at Cagliari).

I wouldnt put down Milan's turnaround just to Balotelli, but I think having a physical striker (Pazzini or Balotelli) is a huge part of Milan's sucessful attack. In fact if you look at all their 14 games since Juventus (both pre and post Balotelli), there are 13 goals and 2 assists from both. But more tellingly you can see that in only 4 games (Catania, Sampdoria, Atalanta, Inter) was there no contribution (goal or assist) from Pazzini or Balotelli. Having neither really hampered them on Tuesday.

[Closed Account 2]

Someone could get a back door to the final:

For instance:

Dortmund v PSG
Malaga v Galatasary
--------------------------
Real v Barca
Juventus v Bayern

I've just used Dortmund as an example, you could swap them for anyone in the bottom half, if that draw was to happen whoever is in Dortmunds position would be fairly happy.

[BonnieShels]

It is pretty much a 5v3 scenario and it will be a case of one-happy bunny.

[geysir]

Those 8 games since Juventus (but before Balotelli) were all against teams outside the top 6 (Catania, Torino, Pescara, Roma, Siena, Sampdoria, Bologna and Atalanta). Even the Roma match (which they lost) was against a team that's 7th and two of those wins, Pescara and Siena, came against teams in the relegation zone. Obviously you can only beat what's put in front of you, but those fixtures (with the exception of Roma) were all ones Milan would hope to do well in.

If you look at their 6 games since Balotelli (post feb), you have Udinese, Cagliari, Parma, Inter, Lazio, Genoa. Two of those teams are top 6 (Inter, Lazio) and none are in the relegation zone (although Genoa are very close) - they havent lost any of those 6 games in arguably a harder set of opponents. It's interesting to note that across those 6 game Balotelli has got 5 goals and 1 assist, so in all those six games (except the draw with Inter) he's provided something concrete to the wins (and draw at Cagliari).

I wouldnt put down Milan's turnaround just to Balotelli, but I think having a physical striker (Pazzini or Balotelli) is a huge part of Milan's sucessful attack. In fact if you look at all their 14 games since Juventus (both pre and post Balotelli), there are 13 goals and 2 assists from both. But more tellingly you can see that in only 4 games (Catania, Sampdoria, Atalanta, Inter) was there no contribution (goal or assist) from Pazzini or Balotelli. Having neither really hampered them on Tuesday.
Possibly I have been 'outstatted'. :) I now play my last card. They beat Juventus (the top team) and gathered momentum. Balotelli came into a squad that already had that proven momentum and strengthened it. The hard job is to turn the season around and gather the winning momentum :)
Probably Milan would have benefitted from having Pazzini available, Barca would also have benefitted from having a proper centre half pairing instead of still depending on the oft injured, unfit Puyol.
I saw Milan's game plan at the Camp Nou as being similar to last year's CL group game where they defended with elegant ease and even managed to grab an equaliser late on. Then they had Zlatan up front.
This time Barca were a team under immense pressure and just kept the screw on tight with an all-round brilliant, intense and perfect performance.
Of course Barca can be beaten. They have been beaten 4 times at the knockout stage since they won the CL in 2006, by Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea and Inter, but Barca in all probability would have beaten any of those 4 teams in this year's last 16. Barca's standards have endured and now they are favourites to win the CL again.

[DeLorean]

Yeah totally agree with Geysir on this one. Barca took Milan's near perfect first leg performance and raised it. The problem for the rest of Europe is that Barca's near perfect level is better than anybody elses. Sometimes you just have to give credit where it's due, there are numerous factors which influence every match but Barca got it very right on the night and deserved to go through.

[BonnieShels]

And teh real draw...

Champions League quarter-finals:
Malaga v Borussia Dortmund
Real Madrid v Galatasaray
Paris St Germain v Barcelona
Bayern Munich v Juventus

[Closed Account 2]

Dortmund and Real Madrid will be happy with that, I'm guessing Bayern and Juventus wont be too pleased to have drawn each other.

[BonnieShels]

WEll it was gonna happen that there would be one fixture out of the four that would have a Bayern v Juve scenario.

Was the draw seeded? I think it's mad that Gal, Mal and PSG avoided each other.

I'll go with Dortmund, Real, Barca and Juve to go through.

[geysir]

It has the smell of an unofficially seeded draw, with Madrid playing home first, thrown in as 'concrete proof' that it wasn't fixed. Bayern and Juve just happened to pull the short straws last night.

Bayern played like a sack of spuds against Arsenal, yet Juve are rank outsiders to get past them. I'd see that tie as 50/50.
I haven't much of a clue about PSG, i've only seen a few highlights of them.

[Schumi]

Was the draw seeded? I think it's mad that Gal, Mal and PSG avoided each other.

57% chance of it happening in a random draw. :p

[geysir]

Combine that stat with the top 4 favourites out the 8, avoiding each other in the draw.

[Schumi]

Combine that stat with the top 4 favourites out the 8, avoiding each other in the draw.

I'm surprised to see that Dortmund are favoured over Juventus (though the draw probably affected that) but I doubt that UEFA would want 2 Spanish and 2 German teams in the semis given the choice. You can find something unusual about any draw if you want to.

[mypost]

I think if Milan had been at full strength they would have gone through on the night. There is clearly now a way of beating this Barcelona as Chelsea, Inter, Real Madrid have demonstrated, but you need tactical discipline and you have to deny them space both in your box and a good 30 yards in front of your box. Milan didn't have this tactical discipline last night and were hampered by injury and also by bizzare team selections (Constant at left back ahead of De Sciglio, Bonera or even Antonini). I know the love-in has restarted but I think Barcelona could come a cropper against a top level team like Dortmund, Real or Bayern.

Milan never showed up. For some reason, the coach tore up and threw away the manual on how to beat them, they used only weeks before. No organisation, no defending, and giving the ball away from a free kick in injury time for the last goal was madness.

Real Madrid destroyed them only a couple of weeks ago. And other sides are capable of dealing with them too.


It's another discussion, but RTE don't have to send the commentary team out there for CL games in order to maintain good standards of CL coverage. Maybe there is some research showing that the extra Irish viewers attracted away from Sky tv coverage towards RTE because of their live commentary, means extra advert revenue, means the commentary team costs are covered.
In the absence of that research, i'd prefer a few more euros from the sport's department kitty, thrown at the MNS.

They also sent out a radio commentary team, which is bizarre considering they can't afford to run a basic LOI show on a Friday night.........

[BonnieShels]

I'm surprised to see that Dortmund are favoured over Juventus (though the draw probably affected that) but I doubt that UEFA would want 2 Spanish and 2 German teams in the semis given the choice. You can find something unusual about any draw if you want to.

I'm just always suspicious of everything UEFA do. Just can't trust them at all.

[geysir]

I'm surprised to see that Dortmund are favoured over Juventus (though the draw probably affected that) but I doubt that UEFA would want 2 Spanish and 2 German teams in the semis given the choice. You can find something unusual about any draw if you want to.
Before the draw was made (and the straws were pulled) Dortmund were clear 4th favs at ca 9/2, Juve were a distant 5th @ 11/1.
The 4 clear favourites managed to avoid each other, sometimes it's hard not to be conspiratorial:)

Mypost, do you have the jitters or a stuck keyboard key?

[BonnieShels]

I don't think he can multi-quote.

[mypost]

The advantage of winning your group was shown again this week, when 6 of the 8 second round winners got through, after playing the second leg at home. That's why UEFA give the group winners priority. Instead of facing Bayern, Arsenal had the chance to go to Olympiakos and get an easier tie in the second round. Instead, they rested players in Greece, then got drawn against Bayern Munich and went out.

On an unrelated note, I seriously hate the second round drawn out over 4 weeks. I know that it's a tv-timed tournament, but it's really tedious having to wait so long for return legs, when later rounds are done and dusted in 6-8 days.

[geysir]

The advantage of winning your group was shown again this week, when 6 of the 8 second round winners got through, after playing the second leg at home. That's why UEFA give the group winners priority. Instead of facing Bayern, Arsenal had the chance to go to Olympiakos and get an easier tie in the second round. Instead, they rested players in Greece, then got drawn against Bayern Munich and went out.

Did the 6 of the 8 teams who played away first, have the (winning) advantage because they were playing away in the first leg or because they were the better team?

[mypost]

They had the second leg in front of their own fans as their prize for winning their groups, and most of them took advantage of it.

Everyone wants their second leg at home. Playing at home in the first leg doesn't eliminate you overnight, but does reduce your chances of progress, as was the case again this year.

[geysir]

They had the second leg in front of their own fans as their prize for winning their groups, and most of them took advantage of it.

Everyone wants their second leg at home. Playing at home in the first leg doesn't eliminate you overnight, but does reduce your chances of progress, as was the case again this year.
I know it's the accepted desired scenario to play away first. I have asked, how can you tell that playing away has a definite winning advantage when the supposed better team is playing a lesser team? IMO, the main advantage is with winning your group and getting paired with a 2nd placed team, who for the most part will be (somewhat) inferior opposition. Or in a WC/Euro Qual play off situation, seeded v unseeded.
I have my doubts about how much advantage there is playing away first. Certainly when the game turns on a knife edge in the second leg, the away team has an advantage and also if the game goes into extra time.

[BonnieShels]

Away goals counting in extratime is one of the most unfair anamolies with two-legged ties.

[mypost]

I know it's the accepted desired scenario to play away first. I have asked, how can you tell that playing away has a definite winning advantage when the supposed better team is playing a lesser team? IMO, the main advantage is with winning your group and getting paired with a 2nd placed team, who for the most part will be (somewhat) inferior opposition. Or in a WC/Euro Qual play off situation, seeded v unseeded.

Because they have their home crowd behind them, playing on their home pitch, with no travelling involved. 6 of the second round teams at home in the second leg got through this year, another 6 last year, and another 7 of them the year before. Many of the ties are evenly matched, but playing at home last is a huge advantage, as the records demonstrate.


I have my doubts about how much advantage there is playing away first. Certainly when the game turns on a knife edge in the second leg, the away team has an advantage and also if the game goes into extra time.

The away team has the advantage of away goals, should they score any. The home side has their crowd and pitch advantage, (and usually the majority of the possession) to try and get them over the line. You can't ignore the rules of the game, just because there is an extra half hour to play. It's all part of the tie.

There is currently no fairer way of deciding aggregate ties though, and that's why it's used at every stage of European competition, including the group phase. Sometimes the away goals rule will help you, sometimes it goes against you. It's much tougher losing a year's campaign on a few penalties, than away goals over three and a half hours.