Champions League 2012-13

[Closed Account 2]

You're wrong though. Basel did display a lot of inventive football and dominated Chelsea for 45 minutes at Stamford Bridge. The fact they could only convert their dominance to one goal in the first half, and then succumbed to three quick goals at the start of the second half, is testament to already-identified deficiencies and the fact Chelsea can call on £500 million worth of talent to create unrepresentative lopsided scorelines.
They had only 5 shots on target in the 90 mins Chelsea had over 10 last week. It wasn't just a matter of not being clinical. It wasnt dominance it was naive simple football that Chelsea could easily predict. Chelsea were never under any pressure and once Basel scored Chelsea were able to go up a gear (and still didn't really have to break sweat) and put the tie to bed a few mins after half time. It was a far cry from the real pressure that Steaua and Sparta put them under a few months earlier, Genk and Nordsjelland aside its probably the easiest European game for them in 2-3 years.

[Charlie Darwin]

Are you trying to argue that Chelsea have better players than Basel? Because it seems like you are and it seems like a fairly obvious point to make.

Nobody would dispute that Basel were naive and that Chelsea had an extra gear, but the fact is that Basel did dominate the ball and were able to cause Chelsea problems with their superior technical ability and their accurate passing. Where they failed was their inability to work as an 11-man team and turn good build-up play into chances on goal, and half-chances into good chances. Again, myself and geysir have said all along they are deficient in some areas, but the fact they could boss the game for 45 minutes at Stamford Bridge and really should have been more than 1-0 up at half time can't be denied.

We all know Chelsea have the players to score from anywhere on the pitch. A team like Basel have to take all of their limited chances and hope that Chelsea don't convert theirs. Unfortunately, their defensive frailties and lack of fully-formed attackers meant they were beaten by a score which really didn't reflect the balance of play over the two games. Like I said, the scoreline flatters Chelsea immensely - they were comfortable because Basel collapsed and they scored 3 goals in the space of 5 minutes, but overall they had to work very hard to even get a foothold in the games.

And yeah, the scoreline dictates that Basel was probably as easy a game as Chelsea have had in Europe for 3 years. Bayern's win over Barcelona was probably their most comprehensive in a decade, and really the tie was decided after 60 minutes, whereas Basel were still in with a real shout after 135. Are we to conclude that BATE Borisov are a tougher proposition than Barcelona?

[Closed Account 2]

Are you trying to argue that Chelsea have better players than Basel? Because it seems like you are and it seems like a fairly obvious point to make.

It's obvious that Chelsea have better players than Basel.


Nobody would dispute that Basel were naive and that Chelsea had an extra gear, but the fact is that Basel did dominate the ball and were able to cause Chelsea problems with their superior technical ability and their accurate passing.

Disagree with a lot of this. I don't think they "dominated the ball" that much and I don't think they were very good technically nor tactical. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say they caused Chelsea problems - over the two legs the tie was comfortable for Chelsea - much more comfortable than the Rubin, Sparta or Steaua ties. You could say any of those three teams caused Chelsea problems, but I don't really think that is true of Basel who seemed to have a game plan akin to "hit it to Salaah, what him outrun someone and hope he might hit the target".


Where they failed was their inability to work as an 11-man team and turn good build-up play into chances on goal, and half-chances into good chances. Again, myself and geysir have said all along they are deficient in some areas, but the fact they could boss the game for 45 minutes at Stamford Bridge and really should have been more than 1-0 up at half time can't be denied.

I dont think that they bossed the game for 45 mins at all - aside from their goal the other best chance of the first half was Lampard scuffing a shot onto the post. I dont think that 0-1 at half time should have been 0-2 or 0-3. You make it sound like the whole first half was Chelsea's backs against the wall and they should have been 2-3 goals down. Have you got your Chelsea matches confused? Did you mix up their home match with Basel this year with their away match in Turin or the away match in the Nou Camp a year ago?


We all know Chelsea have the players to score from anywhere on the pitch. A team like Basel have to take all of their limited chances and hope that Chelsea don't convert theirs.

I agree with this but a slight change in word order makes it even more accurate: A limited team like Basel have to take all of their chances and hope that Chelsea don't convert theirs.


Unfortunately, their defensive frailties and lack of fully-formed attackers meant they were beaten by a score which really didn't reflect the balance of play over the two games.

Problems in the defence and substandard attackers I agree with, but if those areas are not up to standard then it doesnt bode well for the team - even with a superlative midfield they would probably struggle if they leak goals and cant finish. I think the scoreline was accurate over the two legs, Basel created very little in terms of clear chances across the 180 mins Chech had to make a couple of saves but he was tested more in 90 mins against Rubin and Steaua than in 180 against Basel. Basel's goals came from a dubious penalty at home and a mix up in the Chelsea defensive line, whereas Chelsea seemed able to score at will. Credit to the Swiss team for scoring those two goals but they didn't create anything like enough chances to test Chelsea. Over the 180 mins they were ineffective - they weren't able to blunt Chelsea's attack and keep the tie tight (like Sparta Prague did), nor were they inventive enough to create concrete chances and attack Chelsea's back line (as Rubin and to a lesser extent Steaua did) - the tie was eminently navigable for Chelsea.



Like I said, the scoreline flatters Chelsea immensely - they were comfortable because Basel collapsed and they scored 3 goals in the space of 5 minutes, but overall they had to work very hard to even get a foothold in the games.

I think the scoreline reflects the 180mins pretty accurately. The 2-1 out in Switzerland already gave Chelsea a foothold in the game, they could have just seen it off at 0-0 (or even 0-1). Basel scored just before half time, but right after half time Chelsea were able to respond, equalizing and then getting the second. As soon as Chelsea really needed to score they were able to.


And yeah, the scoreline dictates that Basel was probably as easy a game as Chelsea have had in Europe for 3 years. Bayern's win over Barcelona was probably their most comprehensive in a decade, and really the tie was decided after 60 minutes, whereas Basel were still in with a real shout after 135. Are we to conclude that BATE Borisov are a tougher proposition than Barcelona?

No, obviously Barcelona are better than BATE. Using the BATE away match in isolation is a bit inaccurate, it wasn't a knockout tie in the sense that Bayern could have gone out by losing in Minsk, in group stages one offs like that do happen, and if you look at the return match Bayern won it 4-1.

PS - You're wrong about it being Bayern's biggest european home win in a decade they have beaten Sporting Lisbon (2009) and Basel (last year) both 7-0 at home over one leg.

[Charlie Darwin]

OK, I completely disagree and I don't think we're going to get any closer either! I was impressed by Basel, albeit not as much as in previous games.

[geysir]

A Bundesliga free European final with Jesus on the sidelines, what more can you ask for!
So far, Benfica showing off their silky skills everywhere but the final shot.

[Stuttgart88]

Benfica playing some wonderful stuff alright. Sure sign Chelsea will win.

[Stuttgart88]

Wow, some save by Artur.

[geysir]

Wasn't a bad shot --- grudging praise.

[Stuttgart88]

You expect good shots from Lampard though but that late swerve would have beaten many a good keeper.

[geysir]

The save was outstanding, he got enough 'torque' behind his outstretched hand to deflect that thunderbolt over the bar.

[Stuttgart88]

I can recall many goals where I got a good hand on hard shots, yet they still went in off a post. Torque wasn't something I was equipped with.

A balls, Torres just scored.

[Stuttgart88]

Great finish, brutal defending.

[geysir]

What a downer.
If only Cardozo had a toe poke in him.

[Stuttgart88]

They're such a streetwise team. Outplayed for large parts of two consecutive European finals and they win both. They did have a good second half in fairness.

[Grafter]

How did likes of Ba get a medal, wasn't he cup tied from playing with NUFC... chancer!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Total joke he gets a medal. And 'King Chav' gets his hands on a cup for a final he wasn't even on the bench for. And still doing his 'Full kit w*nker' impression...
He has no shame.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Nearly the whole lot of the Man Utd team got into full kit for their trophy celebration last Sunday despite not being on the bench. I remember thinking it was strange how no one deemed that worthy of comment, when the whole of Twitter seemed ready to strangle Terry last night.

On medals, I think its just standard that every registered player in the squad gets one for Europe, regardless of whether they played or not. Especially odd in Ba's case though.

[DeLorean]

I think it was as much the way Terry was running around the place and at the front of every picture. It was in stark contrast to Keane and Scholes walking around, hands in pockets, in 1999. I saw an interview with Terry earlier this season and he was having a laugh about the amount of stick he got about it. He said that UEFA had asked all the players to have their full kits ready for the potential celebrations. He denied wearing shin-pads though!

I don't think it's all that comparable to United's title celebrations at the weekend really. That was obviously a decision taken well in advance having known the league was won and there was going to be a victory celebration, with each player individually recognised for the season's work. Terry's appeared a much more spontaneous and self motivated decision at the time, even if it wasn't.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Nearly the whole lot of the Man Utd team got into full kit for their trophy celebration last Sunday despite not being on the bench. I remember thinking it was strange how no one deemed that worthy of comment, when the whole of Twitter seemed ready to strangle Terry last night.

On medals, I think its just standard that every registered player in the squad gets one for Europe, regardless of whether they played or not. Especially odd in Ba's case though.
Even though I despise Man.U., there's a world of difference between winning a Lge.title and a one-off Final.
Cup Final medals should just be for the participants (and subs at a pinch)...

[Stuttgart88]

Total joke he gets a medal. And 'King Chav' gets his hands on a cup for a final he wasn't even on the bench for. And still doing his 'Full kit w*nker' impression...
He has no shame.Some good pics of Terry here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/10061255/John-Terry-takes-centre-stage-again-as-Chelsea-win-Europa-League-in-pictures.html?frame=2564389

[NeverFeltBetter]

Even though I despise Man.U., there's a world of difference between winning a Lge.title and a one-off Final.
Cup Final medals should just be for the participants (and subs at a pinch)...

It's not just a "one-off" though is it? The Europa League, while much maligned, takes more than one victory to win. I don't know how many games Terry played in it, but I presumed he had some on-field role.

[KK77]

It's not just a "one-off" though is it? The Europa League, while much maligned, takes more than one victory to win. I don't know how many games Terry played in it, but I presumed he had some on-field role.

Correct. It's a team game and over the course of the season he played a role in it. Makes no odds to me if he gets into his gear or stays in his suit.

[DeLorean]

Personally, I think he overdid the celebrations last year. Roy Keane played a massive role in United's semi final win in 99 and without him they probably wouldn't have made the final. He still looked half embarrassed walking around the Nou Camp having not been involved in the final. John Terry went and got himself sent off in the semi final and put their chances of reaching the final in serious jeopardy. Yet he still had the cockiness to parade around as if he was a vital component. It just doesn't say an awful lot in terms of humility but other than that it's no big deal.

[Closed Account 2]

I don't think it's all that comparable to United's title celebrations at the weekend really. That was obviously a decision taken well in advance having known the league was won and there was going to be a victory celebration, with each player individually recognised for the season's work. Terry's appeared a much more spontaneous and self motivated decision at the time, even if it wasn't.

Also it's unfair to have a go at a player like Rooney for wearing the full kit when he wasnt in the match day squad at the weekend. No one can expect him to know how to do up a tie or button up his shirt, much easier to stick on a football kit.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's not just a "one-off" though is it? The Europa League, while much maligned, takes more than one victory to win. I don't know how many games Terry played in it, but I presumed he had some on-field role.
The Final itself is a 'one-off'.

And most cups only give medals to the participants in their actual final...

[NeverFeltBetter]

Which would be grossly unfair to a player that had played every other game but missed the final through injury.

[BonnieShels]

Which would be grossly unfair to a player that had played every other game but missed the final through injury.

Indeed it would. As has been said before it's to do with the brass neck way he did it. He no doubt deserves a medal but the way he went up the staeps last year was just cringe-worthy.

[geysir]

I hoped Eusebio would give Terry a poke with his walking stick.

With Keane, the drama of the reluctant victor was all about himself, not the team.

[BonnieShels]

I hoped Eusebio would give Terry a poke with his walking stick.

With Keane, the drama of the reluctant victor was all about himself, not the team.

And with Scholes?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Which would be grossly unfair to a player that had played every other game but missed the final through injury.

Except that doesn't (or didn't) happen in most Cup Finals. It's just the 11 or 15 or whatever on the day.

[geysir]

And with Scholes?
Probably similar.
Their reaction was more about themselves, their disappointment at not playing, undeserving of a medal etc, than about the team who pulled off an amazing victory without their 2 outstanding midfielders. Quite understandable but imo that doesn't stand out as being particularly noteworthy, humility is a good bit bigger than that.
No doubt though, Terry's reaction was ott.

[Charlie Darwin]

Decent article here on Jupp Heyncke's role in Bayern's rise here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/may/24/jupp-heynckes-bayern-munich-pep-guardiola), although I thought this part was a bit odd:


Midway through the season, Bayern Munich (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/bayernmunich) had announced the manager's time would be up in the summer; that he would be replaced by the younger, better-looking and more talented Pep Guardiola (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/pep-guardiola), the very mention of whose name these days feels as though it needs to be prefaced by a drumroll.

As if being pushed out of his job wasn't enough, he's also comparatively unattractive. Poor guy.

[geysir]

He certainly shipped public censure from the Bayern board for losing that final against Chelsea. I guess Heynkcke was firing a few shots of his own when claiming they didn't know who Martinez was, but they still signed the cheque for Eur37m.
I'm really looking forward to this game.
It's easy enough to see Bayern have a better team but on the night I'd say it will turn out even enough.
I hope Dortmund win but expect Bayern.

[Stuttgart88]

I haven't looked forward to a game so much for ages. I live on the way to Wembley and lots of fans were about the place today.

On Sky Sports News Ray Wilkins has just said there are only 2 or 3 good teams in Germany. Discuss.

[Stuttgart88]

Puma versus Adidas. The ultimate German sporting rivalry.

[BonnieShels]

He certainly shipped public censure from the Bayern board for losing that final against Chelsea. I guess Heynkcke was firing a few shots of his own when claiming they didn't know who Martinez was, but they still signed the cheque for Eur37m.
I'm really looking forward to this game.
It's easy enough to see Bayern have a better team but on the night I'd say it will turn out even enough.
I hope Dortmund win but expect Bayern.


I thought you'd look away tonight and not get involved in this beautiful Teutonic celebration.

I want Dortmund to win. But part of me would like to see Guardiola crumble under the pressure of managing Munich as CL champions next year.

[Stuttgart88]

After last year Bayern have obviously decided that the best way to win a CL final is to be comprehensively outplayed.

[BonnieShels]

Dortmund need a goal to make up for their dominance.

[geysir]

So far it's intense but scrappy and cagey.
I do miss the flowing, imaginative, creative football of Barca in a Euro final.
Come back soon Barca.

[BonnieShels]

So far it's intense but scrappy and cagey.
I do miss the flowing, imaginative, creative football of Barca in a Euro final.
Come back soon Barca.

Shut up Eamonn!

[Stuttgart88]

Keepers are both doing well though. I like these close games. Last weeks Heineken Cup final was a tight cagey contest and I found it gripping. Speaking of which, I think Clermont will be scarred from last week. There's a lot of pressure on Bayern too. They could develop the football equivalent of the yips if they lose this.

[BonnieShels]

They already have the Yips.

Losing 5 of 9 finals so far. this is their 10th final. If they lose this it's 3 out of the last 4 champions League finals lost and 6 of 10 overall. That's a Mayo sized style of choking.

[BonnieShels]

GAH!!!

Hate him since Poznan.

[BonnieShels]

Yuss!!!

[BonnieShels]

They already have the Yips.

Losing 5 of 9 finals so far. this is their 10th final. If they lose this it's 3 out of the last 4 champions League finals lost and 6 of 10 overall. That's a Mayo sized style of choking.


Here come the yips!

[geysir]

Cue the puns about Dante.
Bayern looked imperiously in control until Dante intervened. He reminds me of Phil Babb at his worst.

[BonnieShels]

WHAT. A. GAME.

Screw Barcelona. This is REAL football. What more can we ask for?

[geysir]

Embarrassing shameless dives from Ribery and Muller.
Nothing is sacred anymore, not even the European final.

[BonnieShels]

Embarrassing shameless dives from Ribery and Muller.
Nothing is sacred anymore, not even the European final.


You'd never catch a Barca player diving there Eamo.

[geysir]

Bayern have Dortmund on the ropes.