Champions League 2012-13

[EAFC_rdfl]

So we'll likely have all the English sides out of the Champions League come the quarters. Watch Irish TV stations flounder as they struggle to figure out which games between superior European sides will attract moderate interest.

haha very true, can't wait to see Giles stumbling and struggling over the players from the non-english teams.

[BonnieShels]

haha very true, can't wait to see Giles stumbling and struggling over the players from the non-english teams.

I remember him referring to Kagawa as the 'Asian lad' when he was at Dortmund.

In fairness to John, despite him mumbling through players names, a lot of what he has to say is pretty pertinent.

[Charlie Darwin]

Giles might not know the players' names or have done any research on the teams, but he could analyse a 7-a-side game between Mount Merrion and Fatima Mansions C team and do a better job than most professional pundits on a Premier League game.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Another big performance needed at parkhead tonight, bring it!

[BonnieShels]

It's all about the big one tomorrow, Dortmund v Donetsk.

[ArdeeBhoy]

In Dortmund, maybe...

[Charlie Darwin]

I pop out for 10 minutes to do the lotto and it's 1-0 Juve...

[geysir]

A fool and their lotto dream cannot be separated.

Not bad (apart for the obvious) at Celtic Park.
Pity Samaras is missing, this is his type of game. Ambrose playing is bit of a shock, in more ways than one.

[Charlie Darwin]

The lotto was for the missus. I swear.

Celtic's build-up play is very good but they have no spark in the box. Attention Trap supporters: this is what real catenaccio looks like.

[BonnieShels]

it's a cracking game all the same.

[Charlie Darwin]

It sums up Ambrose's night that he just missed a free header 6 yards out.

[pineapple stu]

Lichsteiner's antics are ridiculous. What happened to referees cracking down on that kind of stuff?

Commentators are doing my nut in.

Good game though.

[ArdeeBhoy]

A game of cat-and-mouse. Juve have more guile. And more cheating...

The ref is not the greatest, which is a shame.

[pineapple stu]

That's the end of that so.

[Charlie Darwin]

Lichsteiner's antics are ridiculous. What happened to referees cracking down on that kind of stuff?
Don't understand why referees book both players. It's ridiculous.

3-0, game over.

[pineapple stu]

Yep. Should have given Celtic a penalty in the first minute - Lichsteiner hauled Hooper away from the exact spot Commons dropped the ball in to. That would have put an end to it for the rest of the match.

[geysir]

3 nil is a 'bit of a downer'.
I suppose 2 of those Juve goals were down to Ambrose's jet lag. I thought Izaguirre was excellent, Wanyama not far off and Brown worked himself into the ground.

[Charlie Darwin]

Are Celtic's centre half options so limited they had to play a player just off the plane from Africa? Celtic really missed the influence of a Gary Caldwell or a Darren O'Dea tonight.

[geysir]

You being a bit sarcastic Charlie?
Ambrose is so good, that if one player could do the whole hog in the ACoN, win the trophy, then fly back to Glasgow and tog out against Juve, then he could.
Didn't work out.

[Charlie Darwin]

Of course I am, although O'Dea does have a handy knack for keeping clean sheets against Italian opposition.

It does seem a ludicrous gamble in such a pivotal position, but from what Lennon is saying the only alternative was to play Lustig in the centre and Matthews out wide, in which case it's a problem with squad depth. On the other hand, if Lennon had left him out and they'd lost 3-0, Captain Hindsight would also be out in force.

[pineapple stu]

3 nil is a 'bit of a downer'.
I suppose 2 of those Juve goals were down to Ambrose's jet lag. I thought Izaguirre was excellent, Wanyama not far off and Brown worked himself into the ground.
You can't get jet lag flying from South Africa to Scotland.

Give Juve credit though; early goal, defended well, countered clinically.

[geysir]

I think you outrank Captain Hindsight, Charlie. :)

Mulgrew could have played centre half as well.
As it turned out with Juve's game plan, they would have been delirious with 1-0, under normal circumstances both those centre halves would have dealt with that stuff.

[geysir]

You can't get jet lag flying from South Africa to Scotland.


Okay pedant, how about travel tiredness combined with post-tournament fatigue? :)

[Charlie Darwin]

You can't get jet lag flying from South Africa to Scotland.
I'm surprised by how many people I've seen say this. I swear there are some people who'd get jet lag flying home from Manchester.


I think you outrank Captain Hindsight, Charlie. :)

Some day :)

[pineapple stu]

Okay pedant, how about travel tiredness combined with post-tournament fatigue? :)
It's not pedantry; it's just refuting your point. There's a difference.

I'm not a professional footballer obviously, but I don't know - Nigeria played six games in three weeks. (Did he play them all? I haven't checked.) Celtic played six in the same time. Then he sat back on a plane for ten hours. Is it really that big a deal? Would it have caused him to fart about like he did for the third goal, or miss a header for the first one? (And the keeper got off really lightly for the first goal; I don't know what he was at.)

[geysir]

It's not pedantry; it's just refuting your point. There's a difference.

I'm not a professional footballer obviously, but I don't know - Nigeria played six games in three weeks. (Did he play them all? I haven't checked.) Celtic played six in the same time. Then he sat back on a plane for ten hours. Is it really that big a deal? Would it have caused him to fart about like he did for the third goal, or miss a header for the first one? (And the keeper got off really lightly for the first goal; I don't know what he was at.)
Yes I admit the use of the term was wrong, I incorrectly use the term jet lag to cover the effects of long distance travel.
Imo it's pedantry to differentiate between jet lag or travel tiredness in this instance. It's just a detail, a minor side issue.
Maybe it's important to you, but this is a football thread.

We can say that Ambrose was probably affected by the Africa tournament and all the travel involved because he doesn't make those type of mistakes under normal circumstances. Is that scientifically proven? no, it's an opinion.
Is it scientifically proven that he would have made those silly mistakes regardless had he remained in Scotland? no it isn't, it's an opinion based on observation of his ability.
Is it a big deal physically and mentally for a player to win the Africa Cup, have some celebration? leave hotel wherever that was, get to airport, travel back from SA to Glasgow? We can say that this is a probability in the case of Ambrose, because he was not the same player last night.

[geysir]

.
Celtic's build-up play is very good but they have no spark in the box. Attention Trap supporters: this is what real catenaccio looks like.
I don't know about what Trap supporters know but I'd safely say that Trap knows what real catenaccio looks like, seeing as he was in the thick of it, at the top end of the scale, for 15 years there.

[pineapple stu]

You really don't take being wrong easily, do you?

I think travel is an issue which is blown completely out of proportion (often by managers who have a vested interest in discouraging their players from playing in the likes of the African Cup of Nations). The days of long, uncomfortable trips beyond the iron curtain on rickety planes, with maybe two or three connections and local officials being deliberately antagonistic are generally gone. If a player is flying first class, possibly direct, I don't see that travel tiredness is anywhere near as big an excuse as is often made out. Getting a flight from South Africa to Glasgow is probably less arduous than Cork City players getting a bus to Derry (or vice versa).

What might be an interesting approach is whether there's a mental release that comes with winning a final - whether the player relaxes in the knowledge that a tournament is won, and then can't get going again for the next game in a couple of days' time.

[Closed Account 2]

Horrendous ref, Lichtsteiner and Buffon could have been manning a machine gun nest and he'd still have waved play on. I think Juventus will get found out against top level teams assuming a proper ref is present.

[geysir]

You really don't take being wrong easily, do you?
You mean about the jet lag thing? I honestly couldn't give a toss. It's a pedantic matter, I said it was pedantic and I even gave a smilie.
It doesn't make the slightest difference to my expressed opinion on a football matter whether I used 'jet lag' or 'travel fatigue'.

It also doesn't concern me whether the total 100% effect on Ambrose's performance was made up of 80% competition fatigue + 20% travel fatigue or vice versa.
I can testify that in the all (I have seen most) of the CL games + qualifiers + Africa CoN games he has played in, he didn't play like he did last night.

[OwlsFan]

Horrendous ref, Lichtsteiner and Buffon could have been manning a machine gun nest and he'd still have waved play on. I think Juventus will get found out against top level teams assuming a proper ref is present.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "horrendous". It happens every game and it is a bit of a farce now. The first corner. Rough and tumble in the box. The ref blows his whistle and tells off the players and then it continues for the rest of the game. Just about happens in every game.

Was very impressed with Celtic's pressing game. Reminded me of the Charlton era at its best but with Celtic also playing football when they got the ball. Should have been 1-1 with the dreadful header miss in front of goal. Enjoyable match to watch. Perhaps Celtic should have played for the draw and tried to snatch something from a corner or set piece but that's hindsight.

[geysir]

Horrendous ref, Lichtsteiner and Buffon could have been manning a machine gun nest and he'd still have waved play on. I think Juventus will get found out against top level teams assuming a proper ref is present.
Interesting that the argument used to justify obstructing Hooper was that he wanted to obstruct Buffon,
therefore 'I can foul a player because he's on his way to foul one of mine'.
The real farcical bit was when Lichtsteiner roughly bundled Hooper over to the ground, then dived in the other direction holding his face.

It's hard to measure Juve on that performance, they came with a tight game plan and went away with a 3 goal win. Yet Celtic had their half chances in that cluttered area, mainly fell to Commons who on another night would have converted one of them. As good as Juve defended, there is a definite vulnerability.

[osarusan]

The real farcical bit was when Lichtsteiner roughly bundled Hooper over to the ground, then dived in the other direction holding his face.
He didn't bundle him to the ground, Hooper was standing on his foot and he pushed him away. Hooper fell like a girl, then the defender decided he should play act to to even things up.

[Closed Account 2]

It looked to me like there was a lot of shirt grabbing going on. I suppose you could argue that stuff like that happens at every corner in most competitive games, but I think the level it was taken to last night was bordering on the absurd. At one stage Lichtsteiner had almost removed the Celtic players shirt from his body, it was like something you would see in one of those NHL ice hockey matches.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65857000/jpg/_65857773_8369329.jpg

[pineapple stu]

It looked to me like there was a lot of shirt grabbing going on. I suppose you could argue that stuff like that happens at every corner in most competitive games
Thing is, I'm fairly sure that ten years ago, FIFA announced a crack-down on this sort of stuff. Our second penalty against Spain in the World Cup was for shirt pulling, for example. So what happened since then?

The point is made every now and again that to clamp down fully on this would mean a ridiculous number of penalties, but I don't see a problem with that. FIFA hit the tackle from behind, the over-the-top tackle and other excessive rough play - all to their credit. This needs similar treatment.

[BonnieShels]

Completely agree. One penalty last night would have killed this stone dead.

That the referee felt the need to talk to Lichtsteiner on so many ocassions and gave him a yellow yet ignored the subsequent infringements for punishment flies in the face of fair play. Also, what was teh end-line gobshoite doing if not reporting this to the referee.

I don't know how anyone could single out Hooper for antagonising Lichtsteiner into doing what he did. He cheated. repeatedly. And should have been sent off before the end of that game.

[Closed Account 2]

His shirt was pulled so far up/off his body he was almost lucky the myopic ref didn't book him for being shirtless (as sometimes happens during a goal celebrations).

[Stuttgart88]

Where was Anders Frisk when Celtic needed him?

I agree that it goes on but that last night was a whole new level. The one where Lichsteiner pushed Brown and then rolled around holding his shin was unreal. If UEFA want to make a bold move on this issue they could do it now. Whatever abouyt Celtic player reactions I think there is categorical proof that Lichsteiner set out to illegally block Hooper and got away with it, while also bringing the game into disrepute (like the Milan keeper - Dida? - many years ago) by feigning near death. Sometimes it takes an extreme case for authorities to react, and this was as extreme as it gets.

I couldn't care less that this was against Celtic, it's an affront to anyone who likes football and who is concerned with the game's governance and oversight. If it had been done by any team I support I certainly would not have condoned any of it.

That said, it did bring back those magical days of 1970s grainy TV highlights of European Cup football on late-night telly when baggy-shorted Juventus brought cynicism to a new level back then too!

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't know about what Trap supporters know but I'd safely say that Trap knows what real catenaccio looks like, seeing as he was in the thick of it, at the top end of the scale, for 15 years there.
That's why I said Trap supporters, not Trap. Pedant :)

Although, on further reflection, Juve did it just as haphazardly as we used to yesterday. I long for the days when we'd score an early goal and defend for our lives.

[Charlie Darwin]

Eamo showing his expert knowledge of the Spanish league. "I think the Spanish players are good." Fantastic.

[geysir]

Eamo showing his expert knowledge of the Spanish league. "I think the Spanish players are good." Fantastic.
We should be grateful for Dunphy's special expert insight into what happens inside the Madrid dressing room.
Not bad from the Manchester team, backs to wall and managed to create a few chances against a middlin' Spanish team. Why do they all moan about de Gea? he looks a handy goalkeeper to me.
The Shakhtar v Dortmund game caught more of my attention in the 2nd half. The 2nd leg in Dortmund should be a cracker.

[Charlie Darwin]

Barcelona just had their bottoms smacked at the San Siro by a really impressive Milan side. They'll have their work cut out at Camp Nou because Milan looked like the better team throughout.

[geysir]

Not bad from Milan. I thought they really came into their element after they scored that flukey first. They just rose to the task as if there's some dignity to defend something rather than a draw. Barca were very poor by their standards.

[SkStu]

Bar a were atrocious and Milan played the perfect Italian game, the clever way.

Charlie, I thought you'd have realized after last season never to underestimate a team in red n black stripes? ;)

[Charlie Darwin]

Bar a were atrocious and Milan played the perfect Italian game, the clever way.

Charlie, I thought you'd have realized after last season never to underestimate a team in red n black stripes? ;)
I don't think Rovers played any teams in red and black stripes last season. Or any team in red actually. I'm sure I'd remember something like that.

[SkStu]

Impressive. :)

[DannyInvincible]

Jamie Redknapp struggles to pronounce "El Shaarawy":


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=J6_i3PmB9m0

I think Hoddle's fearful look towards the camera after being exposed at 0:25 is more amusing than Redknapp's gaffe, mind. Redknapp is a certified imbecile, after all.

[gormacha]

What bothers me most is that I used to consider Gullitt cool. Either he's changed or my idea of urbane hipness was way off at the time.

[DannyInvincible]

There's a pretty obscure but amusing 'Father Ted' reference on Ruud Gullit's Wikipedia page:

http://ballsdot.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Ruud.png

The relevant clip:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0Bn0wFvEJow#!

[geysir]

The last 16, 2nd legs start tonight.
Pity that both games start at the same time. Seeing that the game in Germany starts at 20.45 local time, is there not a case to start it an hour earlier?
This is about the best competition going in sport.
Dortmund are a team who revel in counter attack. Even in games where they have just 40% possession, they still mange to be completely dominant in the chances created, 'shots on goal' stats. I'm sure Tricky would concur. They are favourites to get through tonight, but Shakhtar should be a bit sharper, with a few competitive games under their belt since their long winter break.

If Madrid blow it tonight while Barca are ailing without a manager, Mourinho might be advised to stay on in England.