FAI finances

[paul_oshea]

Do any of them actually wear blazers anymore? Where have the blazers come from? What do the blazers do now they are no longer used?

What about the financials above stutts, is it correct? That's always delaney starting, middle and final point whenever he is questioned, basically the only clear transparent thing he can prove, along with having (at least one) development coaches in every county, which actually isnt quite true, some are in border counties and take from both.

[BonnieShels]

The structure and organisation of Irish football needs overhaul and there appears to be little pressure from any key stakeholders to agitate for this. Everyone acquiesces at the AGM. Delaney does some things well, most notably arse licking at UEFA, but it's hard to escape the conclusion that at all levels of Irish football there is a blazer culture. Lots of people get themselves into an influential position in a little fiefdom and the FAI is just an aggregated version of these blazers. They get lots of perks like a nice trip to the Sheraton with their wives wherever the senior team plays away.

I believe that a country's football governance culture frequently reflects the broader governance culture in that country. I think it's pretty true in Ireland's case.

Delaney's role is CEO lest it be forgotten. The ceo's role is an executive position to implement the strategic direction determined by the Board. In business and other organisations the chairman or the president is an influential figure with gravitas and conviction.

I asked the question earlier: who is our Board? Owls Fan took the question quite literally and provided their names. That wasn't what I was asking though. Who are they? Where have they come from? What do they do? How did they get their position? Whose interests do they represent?

Why does our Board have no independents? Someone like Desmond or O'Brien who can attend board meetings, challenge the way things are done, offer advice from their line of work, and so on.

The bloke who runs thecoachdiary.com knows the blokes who run the SFAI. He says they're all a bunch of clueless out of touch old blokes with no understanding of the modern trends in youth football. Blazers basically.


And why is there even a SFAI?

I started the Governance thread to thrash out all these issues but it's a dull topic that doesn't attract attention. Around the time of the AGM some get on the FAI's case, but I'd like to see scrutiny coming from the ISC, the PAC, wherever...

It's not dull. It's just a frustrating topic. Watching from outside of the FAI is just beyond annoying and the fact that within there is absolutely no inclination to change anything makes the likes of us in the football public just feel worse.

When Rooney was in charge there was at least a semblance of long-term thinking about to take place and he got shafted. I have my own personal feelings about Fran but even I could see that he was the sort of (relative) outsider that was needed in the FAI.

Instead we now have Delaney Jr. and it has been a clear disaster since day one. There is no long-term vision in the FAI because simply there is nothing to be gained by John for a strategic vision that he won't gain from in 2020 etc.

We need a coup just like the one he staged to take over! Otherwise it's going to be a ****show from here on in where playing England and Germany every so often will be the highlights... meanwhile Scotland start qualifying regularly...

The thing is, the Junior football disaster is easily fixed, just tell them to come along or fupp off. It'll soon resolve itself.

[Stuttgart88]

Paul, I have no idea if those numbers are correct.

[BonnieShels]

FAI debt write-down totalled €11.7m, AGM hears in Athlone


The Football Association of Ireland secured a debt write-down of €11.7 million euro, delegates at their Annual General Meeting in Athlone heard today.
The Association restructured their loans during the last financial year to reduce its debt to just over €50 million.
Athlone man Paddy McCaul stepped down as FAI President after his four year tenure.
Tony Fitzgerald was elected President and Donal Conway Vice President of the Football Association of Ireland at a Special Council meeting following the FAI’s 2014 AGM.
Today's AGM was Chief Executive John Delaney's tenth at the helm of the association, a period that has been financially challenging for the FAI.
In his review of the year he said the highlight was the refinancing of the stadium debt.
The Board recently asked Delaney to continue as chief executive for another five years, a move that's expected to cost the association €1.8 million or €360,000 a year.
Delaney stated that football remains the largest and most popular sport in the country - the new Aviva Stadium season ticket has already had sales of almost 8.500.
The FAI have also just launched a new 10-year ticket for under €5,000 to replace the old Vantage Club that had failed to reach expected sales targets.
Next year, with six home internationals, including the friendly against England, the financial outlook should be more encouraging.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2014/0726/633285-fai-debt-write-down-totalled-11-7m/

[geysir]

How do you get a debt of €61.7m reduced to a mere €50m, just with a bit of restructuring?
Water into wine pales in comparison.

[BonnieShels]

How do you get a debt of €61.7m reduced to a mere €50m, just with a bit of restructuring?
Water into wine pales in comparison.

Who are we, as mere mortals, to question Sir John.

[Stuttgart88]

Emmet Malone echoes Paul's point about the uselessness of 1996 as the reference point and provides numbers.

I'm dashing out now so maybe someone else can post the link to his full article?

[Stuttgart88]

How do you get a debt of €61.7m reduced to a mere €50m, just with a bit of restructuring?
Water into wine pales in comparison.
New lenders. I reckon Danske just wanted out so took a swift haircut to ensure a swift exit. I think the new lenders are KKR and a private financial firm affiliated to Dermot Drsmond.

[geysir]

I got this from a mate on a whatsapp group conversation last night, not sure how true it is, i imagine he copied most from somewhere else.

"Turnover comparison is a bit of a red herring. There were no TV deals in 1996. Delaney did not take over in 1997 - it was 2007. The comparison should be made between 2007 and now. Now I don't know what the turnover was in 2007 but in 2009 it was over €50m and has now dropped to €36m. In addition the salary is still more than the CEOs of Italian and Spanish FAs combined. I wouldn't mind if there were results to be seen with young players making their way through academies and turning professional. All 'our' young players are coming through English, NI or Scottish systems. Delaney's time in charge has been nothing short of a disaster for Irish football.
[23/07 19:58] +1 519-670-5842: The FAI turnover since JD took over as CEO was:
2007 - 45,270,350
2008 - 37,808,748
2009 - 51,678,904
2010 - 41,022,261
2011 - 45,912,601
2012 - 39,664,000
2013 - 36m
A drop of €9m since he took over.
Slightly more relevant than the spiel about 1996. Isn't there any journalists who query this constant harping back to 1996 to make himself look good. A decent journalist only needs to look at the grassroots, local & underage clubs, the Vantage club fiasco together with LOI to see that Delaney has been awful for the FAI but who will stand up and be counted?"

Intersting all the same.
Wrong again. A collage of such O'Shea wrongs could take forever :)
Delaney was at the helm in late 2004.

Re income, I'd presume not to take years in isolation, but take 2 year periods when looking at income. Then it matters who we get in a qual campaign. Then there are other factors to consider on top of that, certainly not all those factors are within Delaney's control. Considering who went before, Delaney shines like a beacon of competence. Financially, due to his input, he does manage to create the income to cover his high salary.
The factors to look at when reviewing Delaney's tenure are not just financial. What is glaring is the relative inequality of the national league compared to the focus of resources put into the international set up. The argument is that one feeds the other, but we do actually have to see the crumbs falling to the local football in order to believe it.

[BonnieShels]

Emmet Malone echoes Paul's point about the uselessness of 1996 as the reference point and provides numbers.

I'm dashing out now so maybe someone else can post the link to his full article?

Some very interested points made by a Mr Clarke at the bottom.

[BonnieShels]

Emmet Malone echoes Paul's point about the uselessness of 1996 as the reference point and provides numbers.

I'm dashing out now so maybe someone else can post the link to his full article?

Here it is...

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/no-questions-likely-as-john-delaney-hosts-the-agm-of-the-fai-in-athlone-1.1878560

[geysir]

The bit of reporting that caught my eye was The Irish Times referencing The Sun.

It was reported in The Sun yesterday, meanwhile, that Denis O’Brien is contributing €910,000 per annum to the association’s wage bill for the Irish management team with O’Neill receiving a salary of €1 million and Roy Keane getting €300,000 a year.

If (and it's a bit of an if) that's true, then the salaries paid are not OTT and can be just about justified in the light of O'Brien's contribution.

edit; probably those figures of €1M and €300k are what the FAI pay to O'Neil and Keane, the O''Brien contribution comes on top of that, therefore the total salaries earned by the manager and his assistant comes to € 2.2m.

[gastric]

It reads like a report from a North Korean or Russian parliamentary session. I feel like there is no hope for Irish football when I read about such charades.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/answers-at-a-premium-at-fai-agm-1.1879778

[Stuttgart88]

It's a publicly funded organisation so some form of public pressure should be exerted to scrutinise the FAI's workings.

Pressure was put on the English FA to reform in 2005 resulting in this (http://http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/WhoWeAre/NewsAndFeatures/2005/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/BurnsReview/BurnsOpenLetter2_2.ashx/BurnsOpenLetter2_2.pdf), which was not fully acted upon.

In 2011 Parliament initiated a new enquiry into the affairs of English football, although primarily to address the crazy financial shenanigans.

If a similar review of Irish football was undertaken does anyone think the current FAI structure would remain?

[Stuttgart88]

A bit more meat on the bone here in The Indo

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/journalists-draw-up-list-of-12-questions-for-fai-to-answer-30463645.html

This article includes the questions presented to the FAI by the media but which were ignored.


Of these questions most are appropriate but I don't see the value in asking silly stuff like "do you regret the pricing of the Vantage scheme?". It serves no purpose and is only antagonistic. And I don't think Celtic Tiger era hubris is biggest charge that could be levelled at the FAI.

Interesting that there seems to be a move to properly coordinate the game structure of underage football, although the Indo seems sceptical that it'll get done. This is a Ruud Dokter initiative. Hardly visionary, but definitely worthwhile.

And why the interest in Paul Doolin? I presume most want him out, rather than some genuine humanitarian concern over his career outlook.

[paul_oshea]

Geysir, you will have to omit that from the collage of wrongs :D

I got that from a friend, which if you had read the post properly you would have understood that, I also quoted it which should have been a bit of giveaway too! ; )

[Stuttgart88]

See the Indo article above.

See the picture.

Refer to previous comments about blazer culture.

The blokes to JD's left. No wonder they want to extend the officer's retirement age to 75.

Now look to JD's right. I've always had a mantra at work: never trust a bloke who wears a lemon shirt.

The future of Irish football is in these guys' hands.

[tetsujin1979]

Geysir, you will have to omit that from the collage of wrongs :D

I got that from a friend, which if you had read the post properly you would have understood that, I also quoted it which should have been a bit of giveaway too! ; )
and of course, there was no time for you to do any research on the points raised in the message

[Dodge]

And why the interest in Paul Doolin? I presume most want him out, rather than some genuine humanitarian concern over his career outlook.

Token football question

[paul_oshea]

and of course, there was no time for you to do any research on the points raised in the message

Exactly tets, i dont have time like you to do all this background searching and stuff. :P

I knew there would be people on here that would have that information to hand, and save us all time.

[paul_oshea]

See the Indo article above.

See the picture.

Refer to previous comments about blazer culture.

The blokes to JD's left. No wonder they want to extend the officer's retirement age to 75.

Now look to JD's right. I've always had a mantra at work: never trust a bloke who wears a lemon shirt.

The future of Irish football is in these guys' hands.

Mine is people who wear short sleeve shirts.

The man in the Lemon shirt, is a lemon, formely of lemon brothers.

ON a side crosby curveball. I've been "selected" for jury duty, the only thing I have probably ever been picked for involving more than me, any of you guys able to help me to compose a crypto-communist phraseology of a response, or I am predjudiced by my beliefs in a 32 county free state and do not recognise the British Courts system.

[tetsujin1979]

Exactly tets, i dont have time like you to do all this background searching and stuff. :P

I knew there would be people on here that would have that information to hand, and save us all time.
so you just posted something without verifying it first? Piers Morgan would be proud

[paul_oshea]

Who is he tets? Is that social media?

[Eminence Grise]

It might be better to take some coverage of the AGM away from the sports pages and put it in the hands of the business editors for a different perspective and a different way of looking at a set of accounts. The kind of questions a Shane Ross, John McManus or Cliff Taylor would ask might not be so easily ignored.

[bennocelt]

Mine is people who wear short sleeve shirts.

The man in the Lemon shirt, is a lemon, formely of lemon brothers.

ON a side crosby curveball. I've been "selected" for jury duty, the only thing I have probably ever been picked for involving more than me, any of you guys able to help me to compose a crypto-communist phraseology of a response, or I am predjudiced by my beliefs in a 32 county free state and do not recognise the British Courts system.

Is that not half of all irish men?

[paul_oshea]

IF doing manly irish things you are obvioulsy exempt such as, footing turf, filling turf, bringing home the hay, out feeding the cattle, etc etc.

If you work in an office or in anything other than "working the land" then you fall under this category.

[Stuttgart88]

Is that not half of all irish men?
I have the same view as Paul.

I had a boss once who wore a short-sleeved lemon shirt. Failure on two counts. He also wore dark tinted glasses. He committed so many unforgivable fashion crimes he had no credibility at all.

He also had unfeasible hairy forearms. We nicknamed him The Hairy Lemon.

I'd bet anything that at weekends we wears his polo shirt tucked into his cargo pants and wears long socks.

As does half of Ireland too, over a certain age anyway.

[paul_oshea]

Did he own that pub on stephen street lower by any chance?

[DannyInvincible]

'The FAI millions: where they come from and how they’re spent': http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/the-fai-millions-where-they-come-from-and-how-they-re-spent-1.2264229

[Stuttgart88]

I think I read somewhere that although FIFA pays a lot of money to where it's needed / wanted, a huge % actually gets paid to FIFA itself - and that's what is actually disclosed.

[back of the net]

Guus hiddink has resigned as Dutch manager....
JD get out that 5 million quick. ..
.

[BonnieShels]

FAI debt currently stands at €51.2million

The Football Association of Ireland’s debt now stands at €51.2m according to its most recent accounts.
FIFA's €5 million payout to the FAI in the wake of the Thierry Henry handball has now been mentioned in a cover letter accompanying the accounts for last year.
The accounts and letter have been circulated to delegates in advance of the FAI AGM in Sligo next month.
FAI chief executive John Delaney and president Tony Fitzgerald have also written to delegates to warn that the results of the senior team in the autumn will determine the financial position of the association.
The FAI does not budget for qualification for major tournaments.
In better news for the FAI, turnover increased by 4% to €38m.
UEFA’s new centralised television deal guarantees the FAI €10m per annum and this was a factor in the rise in turnover. Sponsorship income also increased to €8million.
UEFA is owed €5 million according to the accounts, but this figure was stated at around €8.5 million by the European governing body just a number of weeks ago.
The FAI has continually stated its ambition to be debt free by 2020 but this appears a tall order, especially given the precarious state of Ireland’s EURO 2016 qualifying hopes.
The Irish Examiner has reported that Delaney had agreed in mid-April to answer questions from journalists relating to the accounts at the summit in Sligo, but that the press event has since been cancelled.


http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/0630/711638-fai-debt-stands-at-51-2million/


---

Doing a stand up job is our John!

[osarusan]

In 2013 loans were reported at 43 million - but I am not sure which figure refers to stadium debt and which refer to total debt.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-gets-125m-debt-writeoff-on-aviva-29863091.html



The Irish Independent can reveal that the football association came to an agreement on the write-down of its Aviva Stadium loan at lunchtime yesterday, after almost six months of negotiations with Danske Bank.

A source close to the talks said the successful renegotiation of the FAI's loans, which now stand at €43m, leaves the association "in a very good position to achieve the objective of being debt free by 2020".

"This was a phenomenal bit of business when you think about it, almost a quarter of debt reduced following months of intensive negotiations," said the source.

FAI accounts for 2012 showed it owed €59m on the Aviva Stadium, which had put the deal in a perilous position.

I would love to see something from the FAI showing how they projected the debt being paid off by 2020, compared with actual payments made. Are the FAI on-track? If not, how far are they off-track?

I guess we never will see such a statement though.

[pineapple stu]

Bank loans at end 2010 - 63.0m
Bank loans at end 2011 - 58.9m
Bank loans at end 2012 - 58.9m
Bank loans at end 2013 - 48.5m

Don't know exact 2014 details yet. Don't know why the drop is stepped - 5m, then nothing, then 10m - but they're hacking through the debt. At 5m a year, it'd be down to under 15m by 2020 - maybe under 10m given lower interest costs towards the end of the loan. It's possible.

5m a year on interest though - imagine what the LoI could do with an extra 5m a year in prize money. Turnover is up from E8.7m in 2001 to 38m in 2014 - E30m a year extra, yet what has the league really got for that?

[osarusan]

But according to Bonnieshels link above, debt at the moment is 51.2 million - is this all debt, or stadium debt, or is there a difference?

Also, that lists actual bank loans - I'd love to see what they projected for each year until 2020.

[Stuttgart88]

Greece has a plan to be debt free in 12 hours. Tell the lenders to F off.

[pineapple stu]

But according to Bonnieshels link above, debt at the moment is 51.2 million - is this all debt, or stadium debt, or is there a difference?

Also, that lists actual bank loans - I'd love to see what they projected for each year until 2020.

I just looked up the CRO - 2014 not yet filed.

In 2013, on top of the bank loans, long-term creditors also includes €9.6m of deferred income - sponsorship paid up front; possibly Aviva for the ground naming rights. Then there's a piddly bit of lease amounts due, and trade creditors due after one year of €1.3m; not sure what they are.

[DeLorean]

FAI likely to be saddled with Aviva mortgage beyond 2020 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/fai-likely-to-be-saddled-with-aviva-mortgage-beyond-2020-1.2290482)

[DeLorean]

FAI renews target to clear debt by 2020 (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/fai-renews-target-to-clear-debt-by-2020-409821.html)

[BonnieShels]

That's quite the turnaround in a year.

[DeLorean]

In terms of the headlines yeah, but you get the impression from reading the article that it's a bit of a fanciful notion.

[paul_oshea]

I like their insistance on being debt free, the only way I see it is that they get some major payment in 2020 for the Euros matches being hosted here. I can't see Euro 2020 providing as much cash or nearly as much as this year or the last few euros. It's too disjointed, how will the UEFA laws apply to marketing, and how will the marketing work for it in general?

So the next question is if they are debt free and they can keep increasing their income, where will the money be distributed. NI are putting most of their Euro pot back into underage development. It would be great if they put 5 mil a year into underage and the rest into LOI. But would an increase in prize money just mean the same average players in LOI getting more money, thats not really a good investment.

[Stuttgart88]

They can just default. That'd make them debt free. Asset free too, ultimately.

[paul_oshea]

They can just default. That'd make them debt free. Asset free too, ultimately.

They'll hardly default if they are 8/10s of the way paid by 2020, thats pure stupid. End up having to pay rent to then go back to use LR. :8 :/