FAI finances

[rushy12]

Bonnie I would 'like' your page!anyway getting back to the main topic. JD. Are supporters going to put up with this for another term. I cant believe the Irish support to be fair. I used to go to a few games (when times were good, and they tried to play ball) but I couldn't justify paying for the train up and the overpriced ticket to watch muck. so I cant really voice my anger in the crowd. schoolboy structure needs to be the primary focus of the fai and not the huge wages our top brass is on. everything in this country has a similar ring to it. cuts in education and cuts in schoolboy football.

[gastric]

Brilliant management skills being shown by the FAI management. Aren't we so lucky to have them - bunch of to##ers!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/management-noshow-fuels-row-over-fai-staff-pay-cuts-3203179.html

[rushy12]

Brilliant management skills being shown by the FAI management. Aren't we so lucky to have them - bunch of to##ers!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/management-noshow-fuels-row-over-fai-staff-pay-cuts-3203179.html

This was coming and will get worse .jd is simply on too much for an organisation who are in serious debt.he should be getting between 120,000 to 100,000 and that's a great salary in any walk of life.again we Irish seem to accept this with the 'ah it will be grand' attitude.what id like to know is who wrote up this contract for him to sign?what were they thinking.they are in debt?they should be named probably something sweet in it for them and their club.delayed out.he is an accountant.Ireland meet max 6 times a year.a good business man could do it partime.

[Charlie Darwin]

This was coming and will get worse .jd is simply on too much for an organisation who are in serious debt.he should be getting between 120,000 to 100,000 and that's a great salary in any walk of life.again we Irish seem to accept this with the 'ah it will be grand' attitude.what id like to know is who wrote up this contract for him to sign?what were they thinking.they are in debt?they should be named probably something sweet in it for them and their club.delayed out.he is an accountant.Ireland meet max 6 times a year.a good business man could do it partime.
Hint: he wrote his own contract. He pays himself what he thinks he's worth, subject the board's agreement.

In many ways it's a fascinating study of one man's sense of self-worth. In other ways, it's a great insight into the mind of a megalomaniac.

[gastric]

Hint: he wrote his own contract. He pays himself what he thinks he's worth, subject the board's agreement.

In many ways it's a fascinating study of one man's sense of self-worth. In other ways, it's a great insight into the mind of a megalomaniac.
And he continues to act in a dictatorial way. Absolutely scandalous!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/john-delaney-tells-fai-staff-take-pay-cut-or-face-job-losses-3206709.html

[Junior]

Interesting that the meeting with LRC has been adjourned until 27th August. Why indeed would any member of staff disputing the pay cuts sign and return the acceptance letter by 24th August?

From what I have read (and understand from other examples of this type of dispute) The LRC want an independent review of the FAI's finances to take place so that they can have a clearer understanding of whether the cuts are required and fair. JD seems to be at pains to keep the FAI's latest financials under lock and key apart from a few token headline numbers, so I expect this thing will drag out a bit longer unless some rationale can be applied to the proposed cuts.

[Alf Honn]

Interesting that the meeting with LRC has been adjourned until 27th August. Why indeed would any member of staff disputing the pay cuts sign and return the acceptance letter by 24th August?

From what I have read (and understand from other examples of this type of dispute) The LRC want an independent review of the FAI's finances to take place so that they can have a clearer understanding of whether the cuts are required and fair. JD seems to be at pains to keep the FAI's latest financials under lock and key apart from a few token headline numbers, so I expect this thing will drag out a bit longer unless some rationale can be applied to the proposed cuts.

The rust on the car seems to be nothing compared to how bad it is under the bonnet.

[rushy12]

The rust on the car seems to be nothing compared to how bad it is under the bonnet.
love it!!!!!quick question Has anyone or is anyone ever questioned or going to question the runnings of the FAI??? Or is this going to turn into another farce like our mates the banks but in a smaller scale???!I cant understand why this forum or this thread is not hopping mad and looking for people's heads to roll???!!!harsh or not?

[Mr A]

Have you or your club ever done so?

A lot of clubs have a lot to lose by annoying the FAI unfortunately.

[SkStu]

love it!!!!!quick question Has anyone or is anyone ever questioned or going to question the runnings of the FAI??? Or is this going to turn into another farce like our mates the banks but in a smaller scale???!I cant understand why this forum or this thread is not hopping mad and looking for people's heads to roll???!!!harsh or not?

its the job of the press (and maybe the Minister of Sport) and what drives the press is public interest. As Mr. A suggests the clubs are too busy trying not to get fined by the FAI for nothing without inviting doom upon themselves...

[rushy12]

its the job of the press (and maybe the Minister of Sport) and what drives the press is public interest. As Mr. A suggests the clubs are too busy trying not to get fined by the FAI for nothing without inviting doom upon themselves...
True lads true.clubs are folding right left and centre.so for anyone to open their mouth.grants etc could be minimized or stopped.state of Irish soccer is shocking.and its shocking from the top.trap del etc.the schoolboy structure needs changing too as that's not working.but that needs funds.they say there is none but it all goes back to their huge wages.unbelievable.

[BonnieShels]

True lads true.clubs are folding right left and centre.so for anyone to open their mouth.grants etc could be minimized or stopped.state of Irish soccer is shocking.and its shocking from the top.trap del etc.the schoolboy structure needs changing too as that's not working.but that needs funds.they say there is none but it all goes back to their huge wages.unbelievable.

Are you posting via telegraph /STOP/

[rushy12]

Are you posting via telegraph /STOP/

New phone but it feels and looks like telegraph at times.didn't know that a post had to be intellectually typed by a secretary.

[Serb]

New phone but it feels and looks like telegraph at times.didn't know that a post had to be intellectually typed by a secretary.

Thanks to BonnieShels, when I read your posts now I hear the Morse code sound in my head and I pronounce each STOP. A lot more entertaining than the content of most of your posts.

[BonnieShels]

Thanks to BonnieShels, when I read your posts now I hear the Morse code sound in my head and I pronounce each STOP. A lot more entertaining than the content of most of your posts.

I've been doing that the whole time. Breaking me face!

[rushy12]

I've been doing that the whole time. Breaking me face!

Obviously dubs!ill stop posting so, think this is cyber bullying? Don't think you can say breaking me face through morse code.its breaking my face.

[pineapple stu]

think this is cyber bullying?
I think it's called illiteracy, no?

[BonnieShels]

Obviously dubs!ill stop posting so, think this is cyber bullying? Don't think you can say breaking me face through morse code.its breaking my face.

If you have no further questions; yes.

[Schumi]

Don't think you can say breaking me face through morse code.

-... .-. . .- -.- .. -. --. / -- . / ..-. .- -.-. .

[Charlie Darwin]

-... .-. . .- -.- .. -. --. / -- . / ..-. .- -.-. .
I knew if somebody was going to know it would be somebody with a UCD crest.

[pineapple stu]

Or with access to wikipedia.

[Charlie Darwin]

I refuse to believe a UCD alumnus would resort to such underhand tactics.

[Schumi]

I refuse to believe a UCD alumnus would resort to such underhand tactics.

Quite right, especially when there are automatic morse code translators available.

[osarusan]

It turns out that the FAI didn't no-show, and that actually the LRC had agreed to delay the meeting until yesterday.

IT report:


THE FAI have told staff the latest pay cut being implemented at the organisation will be temporary after all with the organisation’s board intervening to restore the clause which had been deleted as tensions between management and staff mounted in recent weeks.

As representatives of the association and SIPTU met at the Labour Relations Commission both sides acknowledged between 80 and 90 per cent of staff had signed up to the latest cuts package, which includes a 10 per cent salary reduction.

Union representatives have been calling for talks between the two sides aimed at finding alternative ways of making the savings involved, arguing that having taken two pay cuts already the staff cannot afford another.

The association has insisted on pressing ahead with the latest round of pay cuts as well as with a number of redundancies and a suspension of pension contributions. Neither side would comment on yesterday’s meeting.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0828/1224323096322.html

[Junior]

Opinion piece from Dion Fanning.

Lots of rehashed stuff but might be worth a gander for those with a few minutes.

Basically talking of JD and Traps mutual appreciation society. Trap is unsackable in JD's eyes and JD did a great 'administrative' job for the Euros in the eyes of Trap.

Poor Communication / respect for the senior players yadda yadda.......

An estimated €10m per year sum is mentioned for the Centralised TV Rights starting in 18 months. A number I havent read anywhere before.

The FAI and LRC are due to meet again tomorrow to try and resolve the ongoing issues regarding pay cuts.

lots of by authoritative accounts and sources in the FAI but basically Fanning is stoking the fires........


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/from-one-crisis-to-another-3210147.html

[Junior]

So FIFA are stumping up €0.4m in a Grant and the Irish Government a further €0.5m to get a few pitches and training facilities set up at HQ to kick start the academy.......

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish/2012/0927/339399-fai-gets-fifa-grant-for-pitch-development/

[gastric]

So FIFA are stumping up €0.4m in a Grant and the Irish Government a further €0.5m to get a few pitches and training facilities set up at HQ to kick start the academy.......

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish/2012/0927/339399-fai-gets-fifa-grant-for-pitch-development/

Considering the LRC and FAI are meeting tomorrow to try and resolve the issue over pay, conditions and possibel redundancies, isn't the timing of this announcement bad?

[Serb]

Considering the LRC and FAI are meeting tomorrow to try and resolve the issue over pay, conditions and possibel redundancies, isn't the timing of this announcement bad?

The FAI were at pains to highlight that the grant is specific to the Abbotstown development project, implying that there's no way they could divert the funds to pay for something else (like wages for example). From the FAI website:


"The FIFA grant, which is specific for the National Sports Campus Development will be released for works to begin in March 2013. The new facility will provide excellent training facilities for elite players and underage international squads."

[Junior]

The JD Thread reminded me of the FAI Finances thread...

It all went very quiet regarding the meeting with LRC and employee strikes etc...

Anyone any update on this?

[gastric]

Don't know what is going on with the LRC, but this article would suggest life is not good for FAI employees. Secondly, I did read recently ( I think in the Irish Times) that Deutsche Bank are watching all spending at the FAI due to the size of the debt. John could stop giving money away and take a pay cut to help his employees, rather than trying to buy popularity.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/second-unfair-dismissal-case-against-fai-3342961.html

[Junior]

RTÉ Prime Time - FAI financial problems highlighted (4/4/13)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUpcVHp4z7g&feature=player_embedded

Prime Time investigates the financial hangover of the Aviva stadium for the FAI.


Host - Pat Kenny
Reporter - Kevin Burns


Interviewed guests in order of appearance -


Philip Quinn,
Paul Rowan,
Brendan Dillon,
Paul Cooke,
Eamonn Walsh,
Caroline Rhatigan


Broadcast on Thursday the 4/4/13


http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/


Note: I've taken this from a Jamesyirishguy post on ybig, so credit to him for uploading!

[paul_oshea]

10,000 tickets at £10,000 each, that's £10million if my maths are right....

[Charlie Darwin]

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

[Alf Honn]

10,000 tickets at £10,000 each, that's £1million if my maths are right....

My pass level maths says Delaney's claim of 6,000 ticket sales, at an avg €15k per ticket, equals 90 million.

If stadium cost 70 million, why the 60 million debt!

[paul_oshea]

I was serious but i misheard yer man. I thought he made an arse of himself when doing his basic multiplication - but i misheard him!! More fool me.

[Junior]

My pass level maths says Delaney's claim of 6,000 ticket sales, at an avg €15k per ticket, equals 90 million.

If stadium cost 70 million, why the 60 million debt!

Whatever about JD's claims, they never secured that sort of income. The guy in the programme quotes that the accounts have a €12.5m liability, which would include the deferred income linked to advanced sales but would also include other stuff such as sponsorship income etc.. So the only thing that could be said with certainty was that advance sales were no more than €12.5m and probably much less. However, Im not sure this factors in any stage payments, for example JD mentions that it would be 2 instalments of 3.5k€ plus 500€ per year for 10 years, so its possible (and probable) that the second load of €3.5k payments or the €5k (10 * 500€) is not included in that number. Regardless, I still dont think you will be looking at much more than 10m€-15m€ of income linked to these ticket sales - unbelievable to think the IRFU sold almost €100m of these tickets.

I know the debate has been done elsewhere on this thread and other threads of the reasons for this, however the video, suggest a failing may just have been delaying from 2007 to 2008 before launching the ticket sales.....The $hit was really beginning to hit the fan come 2008 both on and off the pitch, interesting to think could they have sold many more if they had launched 12 months earlier?

[Stuttgart88]

When did the IRFU sell their tickets?

Didn't Michael Fingleton pay for his via Irish Nationwide? There was talk of him having to give them up and he was furious.

Isn't the FAI expecting a mini-windfall from centralised TV right sales by UEFA for the next Euros (and this WC campaign?)?

I feel a degree of sympathy for the FAI on this. They were persuaded out of building eircom Park a decade ago with Deitsche Bank underwriting future ticket sales, and even though I can't remember the exact circumstances I'm blaming Bertie. It was discussed here earlier.

I don't think they had much choice other than to share the Aviva and they outsourced the corporate sales to IMG, a specialist at all this. No-one really saw the crisis coming, certainly not the timing and severity anyway. OK, some did, but many people smarter than JD got caught badly "long and wrong".

[paul_oshea]

Ya exactly stutts. Why did they postpone selling them? It wasn't an IRFU request or anything like that? So they could get out there first?

Fingers Fingleton. Sounds like such a schmarmy move he would pull. That's ridiculous.

[Macy]

I feel a degree of sympathy for the FAI on this. They were persuaded out of building eircom Park a decade ago with Deitsche Bank underwriting future ticket sales, and even though I can't remember the exact circumstances I'm blaming Bertie. It was discussed here earlier.
The Fianna Fail Government wanted to build the Bertie Bowl (aka Stadium Ireland) in Abbotstown, which needed football and rugby as tenants. They said they would give the FAI no grants for eircom Park, to which the FAI said they'd go ahead anyway, and then the Government started threatening to make planning difficult (height of structure, opposing floodlights etc) due to the proximity to Baldonnel. The FAI had no real choice in the end but to give up on eP in the circumstances (although it took a coup iirc), imo.

I should add that Bertie Bowl may have been built, except for the intervention of the PD's and especially McDowell. Abbotstown was a vanity project, but I'd still have preferred it to be built, rather than hames that was made of the entire stadium situation.

[Junior]

The central TV rights money is what JD seems to be clinging on to as the saviour but as I've posted elsewhere, there is nothing guaranteed with future tv deals and who knows how international football will be seen in years to come and its commercial value?

Anyway, without watching the clip again I think the central TV money would amount to around €40m over 4 years, so €10m per year. They compared that to the current €6m or €7m the FAI currently receives per annum from RTE, Sky and other worldwide boradcasters.

So an increase not to be sniffed at but really not much more than is required to service the debt let alone pay any of it off.

[geysir]

I was serious but i misheard yer man. I thought he made an arse of himself when doing his basic multiplication - but i misheard him!! More fool me.
If you misheard him, then you miswrote what you misheard
10,000 tickets at £10,000 each, that's £10million if my maths are right
....and ended up with the accurate quote.
Or your maths just sucks :)


I know the debate has been done elsewhere on this thread and other threads of the reasons for this, however the video, suggest a failing may just have been delaying from 2007 to 2008 before launching the ticket sales.....The $hit was really beginning to hit the fan come 2008 both on and off the pitch, interesting to think could they have sold many more if they had launched 12 months earlier?
Could be that the mood of the soccer public was not that positive in 2007 about Intl football( no need to elaborate on that) and part of the FAI strategy was to get in the big name manager and then launch the ticket sales.

[elroy]

Not sure what brought on this PT piece, it is reasonably well known for a while now that the FAI administration costs are high and that its debt situation isnt great.

That in itself might be a blessing in that the debt providers will place various covenants on the FAI, which would include reducing operating costs.

Some questions/thoughts, admittedly in hindsight:

JD's comment at the time of the launch was along the lines that there are XX number of millionaires in the country, we only need YYY of these people to buy tickets. This is such a stupid and clueless comment and shows that the FAI and the ticket promoters were not living in the reality at that time and now.

It is clear from the empty corporate boxes and the premium seats at almost every game that very few were sold as 10 year tickets. I genuinely think the number actually sold is really low.

he IRFU or even GAA were and are probably not useful barometers for ticket sales, - very different products and in this case of the rugby a different customer. The IRFU were always going to sell their tickets reasonably easily - they have a consistent product that fits very nicely for the corporate sector. Clients from Ireland, UK and France can be brought to the games which are always at the weekend and in the case of the 6N are on an annual basis at the same time every year. If the IRFU had to rely on the revenue from their autumn internationals (I.e. their friendlies), then they also would experience much more difficulty.

If I were involved in scheduling our home fixtures, I would insist as far as I possibly could that as many games are scheduled on a Saturday evening or at least on a Friday evening. From a corporate and even travelling fan perspective, games on a Tuesday and Wednesday night are difficult to get to. My focus would be on selling out as many of these fixtures as I could. The friendlies are hard to sell and by and large if you can get 20k to each friendly, then that has to been seen as a success.

[Junior]

If I were involved in scheduling our home fixtures, I would insist as far as I possibly could that as many games are scheduled on a Saturday evening or at least on a Friday evening. From a corporate and even travelling fan perspective, games on a Tuesday and Wednesday night are difficult to get to. My focus would be on selling out as many of these fixtures as I could. The friendlies are hard to sell and by and large if you can get 20k to each friendly, then that has to been seen as a success.



Whilst I cant disagree with you that 20k for international friendlies in the current economic and footballing (in an Irish international context) climate would be decent. However, If the FAI buiness Plan developed to ensure it could repay its share of the debt was based around crowds of 40k (and thats pure speculation on my part but Im sure it wont be far off the truth) then it cant possibly be seen as a success.

As Im sure you're aware, the fixtures that would actually have half a chance of decent attendances are the competitive qualifiers and the fixture timetable there is very much out of the FAI's hands.

[Charlie Darwin]

Small update: John Delaney states that alcohol sponsorship, which is under threat of being banned by the government, is a "significant proportion" of the €6 million the FAI receives in sponsorship income.

The IRFU, by contrast, takes in €9 million from alcohol sponsorship alone.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/sports-bodies-speak-out-against-proposed-ban-on-alcohol-sponsorship-1.1435791

[Charlie Darwin]

FAI accounts for 2012 released. They're still paying €4.8 million a year in interest alone.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/fai-stick-with-debt-deadline-235782.html

Most curious is this bit:


Delaney’s controversial salary dropped slightly from €400,000 to €386,666 as a result of the voluntary 10% cut he announced at that AGM.

Presumably the accountant was one of the first to be laid off.

[paul_oshea]

they were only in a position to meet interest payments — not any principal — on the stadium debt.

That's the worrying bit its not like inflation is going to shoot up 200% in 7 years or so....72 mil now will be pretty much the same in 7 years(its not an obvious statement).

[gastric]

This really is 'heads in the sand' stuff. How with twindling revenue, and with no other form of revenue to draw on, can the FAI claim they will pay this massive debt off by 2020?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/2020-vision-makes-fai-figures-look-all-the-more-daunting-1.1454757

[pineapple stu]

FAI accounts for 2012 released. They're still paying €4.8 million a year in interest alone.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/fai-stick-with-debt-deadline-235782.html

Most curious is this bit:



Presumably the accountant was one of the first to be laid off.
Salary cut took effect from 1 September so.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ah, well spotted.

[pineapple stu]

Take back what you said about accountants. :)

Surprising that the interest was the same in 2011 given interest rates are going up. Presume it's not a fixed-rate loan (is there such a thing?) Have to imagine the interest charge will only go up in coming years.