Euro 2012 General Discussion

[Stuttgart88]

They eat and drink football.Do we know the ingedients?

I think simple stuff like yoga can reduce the occurance of muscle injuries. It's only relatively recently that football clubs started using it regularly. Giggs and Keane used to go to local yoga classes and Giggs attributes his longevity to yoga (though he does have a DVD to sell). The science of recovery is evolving all the time too.

[tetsujin1979]

are we to believe that a football club was able to create something that no scientist, army research or other sports agency could - an undetectable drug that cures all ailments?

[paul_oshea]

Ha, not at all tets, but for years the tour de france athletes have been using drugs that weren't traceable until they found a way of tracing them. The point is they are always a step ahead.

And just for good measure, I've worked previously for a company, that were involved in Security Clearance, in detecting drugs in the system up to 6 months after use. There are loads of things that people aren't aware in this world that are detectable and undectable, and wont be made aware either.

[tetsujin1979]

well then the obvious flaw is that if they have an undetectable salve for whatever ailment may arise, why avoid the UEFA tests?

[tricky_colour]

drugs don't improve your first touch.

If they did I'd get Whelan and Andrews on em straight away!

Do you know that for sure?

I expect there are drugs which can improve your first touch, stimulants for example may well do that.
I mean beta blockers can make snooker players better by making them more relaxed ( I believe) so
surely drugs can make you more alert and that should help your first touch?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance-enhancing_drugs



Stimulants are used to stimulate their body and mind to perform at optimal level by increasing focus, energy and aggression. Examples include caffeine, amphetamine, and methamphetamine.

Also nicotine ", nicotine increases the levels of several neurotransmitters – acting as a sort of "volume control".


List of footballers who smoked.




1) Socrates
.

2) Paul Gascoigne and Teddy Sheringham


3) Robert Prosinecki

4) David Ginola

5) Zinedine Zidane


6) Maradona


7) Johann Cruyff


8) Slaven Bilic


9) Fabien Barthez


10) David James


Also a few more selected here


Wayne Rooney, Dimitar Berbatov, and Federico Macheda Ossie Ardiles, Gianluca Vialli, Jack Charlton Jackie Milburn

[SkStu]

Do you know that for sure?

I expect there are drugs which can improve your first touch, stimulants for example may well do that.
I mean beta blockers can make snooker players better by making them more relaxed ( I believe) so
surely drugs can make you more alert and that should help your first touch?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance-enhancing_drugs



Also nicotine ", nicotine increases the levels of several neurotransmitters – acting as a sort of "volume control".


List of footballers who smoked.




1) Socrates
.

2) Paul Gascoigne and Teddy Sheringham


3) Robert Prosinecki

4) David Ginola

5) Zinedine Zidane


6) Maradona


7) Johann Cruyff


8) Slaven Bilic


9) Fabien Barthez


10) David James


Also a few more selected here


Wayne Rooney, Dimitar Berbatov, and Federico Macheda Ossie Ardiles, Gianluca Vialli, Jack Charlton Jackie Milburn

What, they used to share them behind the Spurs bicycle shed?

[DannyInvincible]

Also nicotine ", nicotine increases the levels of several neurotransmitters – acting as a sort of "volume control".

What on earth is a "sort of volume control'"?... Did Ginola not use L'Oréal for that?

[DannyInvincible]

And surely not all those footballers smoke or smoked on a regular basis...

[tricky_colour]

Don't know why they share the number 2 spot, got the list here

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Mario-Balotelli-and-football-s-Top-10-most-famous-smokers-starring-Maradona-Socrates-David-Ginola-Zinedine-Zidane-and-more-article148195.html

[paul_oshea]

well then the obvious flaw is that if they have an undetectable salve for whatever ailment may arise, why avoid the UEFA tests?

Don't know I never really paid much attention to that individual point, however just because its undectable, doesn't mean other things wouldn't show up out of hte ordinary. For example take that russian guy poisoned in London, or Yasser Arafats massive brain hammeroaghe, they can't pinpoint, or to be more precise they don't know what exactly caused it, but they have made assumptions based on readings from the blood that it was some sort of poisoning.

The point is its better not to raise any awareness or suspicion, whether detectable or not.

There probably isn't anything untoward, but there is nothing I have heard on here or elsewhere to tell me there is or there ins't.

[Stuttgart88]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[Mr A]

One other thing that makes me a little suspicious about football at high levels is the number of heart issues among footballers in recent years.. seems to be a much higher prevalence than previously, although maybe there is more reporting of it now.

[paul_oshea]

Ive a mate, sorry for going off topic, but in Gaelic he reckons its too much red bull at the weekend!! Convinced of it.

Certainly more reporting of it, but its not something I thought about, then again probably because i didnt see or hear of it until recently.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is it any more prevalent now than it was before?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_pla ying

I'd argue players are putting more strain on their hearts in general in the last 20 years and decade particularly, but medical advancements have also improved to counteract it. There are probably drugs involved in some of the heart issues suffered by players, but it would be difficult to prove it has caused an increase.

[Stuttgart88]

Paul O'Shea vindicated?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/delay-awarding-london-2012-olympic-medals-for-eight-years-says-biochemist-7917937.html

[tetsujin1979]

I don't think I can live in a world where Paul O Shea is right.

[paul_oshea]

Paul O'Shea vindicated?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/delay-awarding-london-2012-olympic-medals-for-eight-years-says-biochemist-7917937.html

I don't need to be vindicated to know my level of thinking is above and beyond the average person. I learn every day , as I get extremely well paid for it.

[tricky_colour]

Is it any more prevalent now than it was before?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_pla ying

I'd argue players are putting more strain on their hearts in general in the last 20 years and decade particularly, but medical advancements have also improved to counteract it. There are probably drugs involved in some of the heart issues suffered by players, but it would be difficult to prove it has caused an increase.

Wow that is a really interesting list, if you start reading it the early ones are dying from a variety of things


ruptured bowel
tetanus
Pneumonia r
Blood poisoning
Tetanus

etc....there is only one heart atatck in the first 20 listed approx
however by the time you get to 1973 it is abasically

heart attack
heart attack
heart attack
heart attack
heart attack

So you go from 5% heart attacks to about 85% heart attacks.

Personally I think it is due to performance enhancing drugs or other illegal stuff.

The last 20 are basically all heart failure/attacks.

Pretty disturbing, the is so much money in the game the pressure to use illegal stuff must be immense.


I don't recall the same kind of thing in other competetive sports.

I had expected to find some in cycle racing but there are few, cycling is not so much cardio though as anyone who has cycled knows it all in the legs.

[Charlie Darwin]

While I have no doubt that illegal drugs do form part of it, putting it all down to that one factor is ludicrous. Players even 20 years ago didn't put their bodies under half the amount of strain that they do today. Even the use of drugs is a symptom rather than an effect - you take drugs so that you can improve your endurance and fitness levels, but the cause is still the strain you're putting your body under. You'll also notice that deaths have become far more frequent in recent times as record-keeping has improved and there are larger numbers of players in organised football.

You can also add that players no longer die of infections, etc. - deaths are usually from chronic heart conditions or attacks that are fatal in a short period of time. Look at Shane Duffy's injury a couple of years back - there is no doubt he would have died 20 years ago. Heart attacks are more prevalent simply because everything else can be treated quickly and effectively.

[Mr A]

One of the doctors banned for life during the week for doping at US Postal is also linked to Barcelona and Valencia: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12391/Bruyneel-confirms-hes-opted-for-arbitration-hearing-with-USADA.aspx

[back of the net]

Extract from Andrea Pirlos new book on Ireland in Euro 2012:

"Their team were S*it but they had the best fans in the world ...... Ever"

[DannyInvincible]

Must have been something lost in translation there. I'm sure he meant "sh*t-hot".

[Stuttgart88]

Oh oh. So now next time a domestic football fundamentalist comes on here and throws around the “best fans in the world” sarcastic insult I can now no longer reply “but who says we’re the best fans in the world apart from Marion Finucane?”

[Charlie Darwin]

Roy won't be happy about this.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The best fans in the world go to Euro 2012 for a holiday and good time - getting too drunk to even follow the match properly, having sing songs and doing the Poznan while their team is playing atrociously and embarrassing the whole country while the other 15 nations laugh at us?

I know for a fact that a LOT of the same fans that Pirlo is patting on the back never went to a single football match or watched a match on TV before they headed over to Poznan to convene for a glorified **** up. "F*ck the recession, we're on a session". :rolleyes:

Ok.

[Charlie Darwin]

The team didn't embarrass us.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The team didn't embarrass us.

They didn't turn up but it would be remiss to lay the blame for that all at their feet - as we all know.

[back of the net]

Oh oh. So now next time a domestic football fundamentalist comes on here and throws around the “best fans in the world” sarcastic insult I can now no longer reply “but who says we’re the best fans in the world apart from Marion Finucane?”


Depends on whether they have ever been to georgia seemingly!

[DeLorean]

The best fans in the world go to Euro 2012 for a holiday and good time - getting too drunk to even follow the match properly, having sing songs and doing the Poznan while their team is playing atrociously and embarrassing the whole country while the other 15 nations laugh at us? I know for a fact that a LOT of the same fans that Pirlo is patting on the back never went to a single football match

At least they didn't stay at home to 'see about a girl'... as Robin Williams might put it :D

[Bungle]

We will have better teams in the future and we may have worse teams than we currently have, but I have to say that our fans were outstanding in Poland. We behaved impeccably and enjoyed ourselves from start to finish.

As a veteran of other tournaments when we actually had a very good team and proper world class players, I went to Poland with not too many expectations of our lads delivering on the pitch and thankfully the trauma when we were anhilated in all the games, didn't hurt as much as it did at 88 or 90, 94 or 2002. My memories were of my fellow fans who showed a wonderful side of our great country and of mingling with the other nation's followers and having the craic with them.

If we aren't going to be remembered on the pitch, at least it's nice that our fans are remembered off it.

[DeLorean]

Well said. And I really don't have a problem with non-football fans going because they want to be a part of something and have a good laugh.

[SwanVsDalton]

Extract from Andrea Pirlos new book on Ireland in Euro 2012:

"Their team were S*it but they had the best fans in the world ...... Ever"

Pretty sure the quote is a fake.


The best fans in the world go to Euro 2012 for a holiday and good time - getting too drunk to even follow the match properly, having sing songs and doing the Poznan while their team is playing atrociously and embarrassing the whole country while the other 15 nations laugh at us?

I know for a fact that a LOT of the same fans that Pirlo is patting on the back never went to a single football match or watched a match on TV before they headed over to Poznan to convene for a glorified **** up. "F*ck the recession, we're on a session". :rolleyes:

Ok.

This isn't directed just at you TOWK, because it's a view that has been expressed by other posters, people and pundits plenty in the past two years, but it is a view that almost singularly short circuits my fury core.

It's just a dismissive, snobby generalisation that bears no relation to what I experienced out there ie fans who were alternately frustrated, exasperated, angered and ultimately heartbroken by the team but nonetheless wanted to show support at the moment they were exiting the competition. A competition thousands will never have the chance to return to.

Bungle's response is sufficient. We don't have to hate ourselves all the time, we're generally a pretty sound bunch.

[Crosby87]

The only complaint i ever heard about the Irish fans was they leave a lot of litter around, and that was from POSH who had to pick it up that one time.

[bennocelt]

Pretty sure the quote is a fake.



This isn't directed just at you TOWK, because it's a view that has been expressed by other posters, people and pundits plenty in the past two years, but it is a view that almost singularly short circuits my fury core.

It's just a dismissive, snobby generalisation that bears no relation to what I experienced out there ie fans who were alternately frustrated, exasperated, angered and ultimately heartbroken by the team but nonetheless wanted to show support at the moment they were exiting the competition. A competition thousands will never have the chance to return to.

Bungle's response is sufficient. We don't have to hate ourselves all the time, we're generally a pretty sound bunch.

Didnt go myself, and can understand both points tbf, but knew many that went over since it was their first chance of a big final, so cant be too hard on a lot of the fans. I mean its easy for us that had 88 to 94, and 2002, but imagine having to wait another 8 years or so for the next big tourno...

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I get it. It's just that the team may be affected on a psychological level in that it may cushion the blow of poor performances and poor results and they may inclined to think that they are somewhat acceptable if they see the fans behaving in such a way. It becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We can't be patting ourselves on the back after results like the one in Stockholm anymore after shooting ourselves in the foot. And no more "cat is in the bag" nonsense after qualifying for tournaments.

[DannyInvincible]

Well said. And I really don't have a problem with non-football fans going because they want to be a part of something and have a good laugh.

All fans have to start somewhere.

[Crosby87]

Anyone paying the money for the flight, the lodgings, food, tickets, booze, replacement for lost cell phone, Penicillan shots, etc...should be able to at least enjoy themselves even if some of the more diehard are unpleased with the result. It's sports, not life and death, if it's your whole life you should maybe examine that and /or talk to a female you didnt have to give money to first and try to broaden your horizons!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Cop on Crosby. Good lad.

[DannyInvincible]

Crosby in serious, wise words shocker. :)

[Stuttgart88]

I get it. It's just that the team may be affected on a psychological level in that it may cushion the blow of poor performances and poor results and they may inclined to think that they are somewhat acceptable if they see the fans behaving in such a way. It becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We can't be patting ourselves on the back after results like the one in Stockholm anymore after shooting ourselves in the foot. And no more "cat is in the bag" nonsense after qualifying for tournaments.
You should check out what Keith Andrews said in the Examiner. Pretty much the definitive piece on the topic IMHO.

[BonnieShels]

Nearly 2 years since the Euros and this debate came back up?

Can we start discussing Packie's mistake for Schillachis goal while we're at it.

[back of the net]

Nearly 2 years since the Euros and this debate came back up?

Can we start discussing Packie's mistake for Schillachis goal while we're at it.


Id prefer to discuss packies mistake for wim jonks goal in 1994 if possible?

[BonnieShels]

Id prefer to discuss packies mistake for wim jonks goal in 1994 if possible?

Nah.


That mistake didn't cost us the game. As disgraceful as it was. We were all at sea that night/day.

[DeLorean]

You should check out what Keith Andrews said in the Examiner. Pretty much the definitive piece on the topic IMHO.

When was this? Would anybody have a link?

[back of the net]

Nah.


That mistake didn't cost us the game. As disgraceful as it was. We were all at sea that night/day.


Point taken - god we were a mess that day and to think that alot of us were already planning our game against Brazil in the Quarters despite not having kicked off against the dutch


We got taken to the cleaners - although Mcgrath did score a lovely goal albeit dissallowed

You may revert to discussing schillachi's goal.....ah packie!!

[Crosby87]

So his full name is Packing Bonner? That is bizarre. Or is Wiki lying to me again.

[SkStu]

Toto Schillaci. What a pr!ck.

[Stuttgart88]

When was this? Would anybody have a link?
It might even be on this thread somewhere, but I can't find the link. It was in his Examiner column during the Euros and he was applauding the fans saying that they realised the players had just been put to the sword by the world's best team and that then was not the time to turn on them. The players appreciated the reaction but equally they understood that had they put in an abject performance against a peer then dissent would have been appropriate and accepted by the players.

Something like that anyway.

[Crosby87]

The band Toto were great though.

[BonnieShels]

Point taken - god we were a mess that day and to think that alot of us were already planning our game against Brazil in the Quarters despite not having kicked off against the dutch


We got taken to the cleaners - although Mcgrath did score a lovely goal albeit dissallowed

You may revert to discussing schillachi's goal.....ah packie!!

That McGrath goal was my first real experience of the crushing misery of being an Ireland supporter. And the paranoia that goes with it.

We were disgraceful that day. I distinctly remember someone in the house I watched it in (I was 10) that Keane was useless and never did it for Ireland...


So his full name is Packing Bonner? That is bizarre. Or is Wiki lying to me again.

His first name is Patrick. He's a Donegaler. They are an odd bunch.


Toto Schillaci. What a pr!ck.

Yeah... I remember his name being a byword for a "hatcher" or a player you hated when playing with mates on the road.

Great ad though...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxJeYY-VI-8