Euro 2012 General Discussion

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, I meant to add Rooney - forgot. Boll1x.

[bennocelt]

I would like to see England do well, good manager, good support - why not. That and the fact I have them to get to the semi's,lol

[Stuttgart88]

Who would have gone through if Spain v Croatia had finsihed 0-0?

Each of the 3 would have had 5 points, Each had drawn against the other, and hence GD was equal, so Italy would have won on GS among the teams involved (2) and Spain and Italy would each have scored 1, so Spain would have gone through in second based on UEFA ranking?

I'm just wondering why Croatia didn't seem that shattered. What if it was 1-1? Spain would have won group based on co-efficient, then Croatia (ranked higher than Italy?)?

[passinginterest]

At half time the BBC showed the table as it stood with Italy topping the group and Spain through in second. Not sure what would have happened if it was 1-1 rather than 0-0.

[Stuttgart88]

I think if it was 1-1 then all 3 games would have been 1-1 between the sides. I'm not sure whether it then went to GD including Ireland results, or straight to co-efficient and then whether Italy or Croatia had the higher coefficient.

[osarusan]

Italy had the higher coefficient, and that is how it would have been decided.


These are the permutations, culled wlth love and affection from the Uefa website.


• Spain have the simplest task – a draw ensures qualification, a win ensures first place. If Spain draw 1-1 and Italy win 4-0, Spain would finish first ahead of Italy on coefficient.

• Croatia will definitely qualify, as group winners, with victory. They will also be through with any draw other than 0-0 or 1-1. If their game is 0-0 and Italy win, Croatia are out. In the case of a 1-1 draw, they will only be through if Italy do not beat Ireland by 3-1 or better. If it is 1-1 and Italy win exactly 3-1, the Azzurri will be second on coefficient. Croatia can afford to lose if Italy do not win.

• Italy have to win and hope the other game does not finish in a high-scoring draw of 2-2 or more. If the other game finishes 1-1 they must win by 3-1 or better to finish above Croatia or better than 4-0 to top the group. If the other game finishes 0-0, an Italy win would take them through as group winners.

• Republic of Ireland are out but will finish third with a win.

Coefficients for exact ties on head-to-head, goal difference & goals scored (see ** below)...
Spain 43.116
Italy 34.357
Croatia 33.003

[Stuttgart88]

Thanks, sorry - didn't see the earlier post.

[shakermaker1982]

It would take Chelsea level proportions of flukiness for England to get to a Final.

Terry - slow plodder nowadays. Teams with pace will have a field day.
Milner -hard working plodder
Parker and Gerrard not 100%, carrying niggles.
Ashley Young - erratic
Johnson - positional sense reminds me of our very own O'Shea
Rooney - not played for a month or so. Bound to feel the pace tonight.
Welbeck - Paulo Wanchope in a United shirt.

[Irwin3]

I think if it was 1-1 then all 3 games would have been 1-1 between the sides. I'm not sure whether it then went to GD including Ireland results, or straight to co-efficient and then whether Italy or Croatia had the higher coefficient.


Italy had the higher coefficient, and that is how it would have been decided.

If Croatia had equalised and got the 1-1 draw then Italy were going out on goals scored. (Croatia beat us 3-1 and Italy beat us 2-0). Coefficient is applied after overall GD and GS.



Higher number of points obtained in the matches played between the teams in question;
Superior goal difference resulting from the matches played between the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
Higher number of goals scored in the matches played between the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
If, after having applied criteria 1 to 3 to more than two teams, two teams still have an equal ranking, criteria 1 to 3 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the two teams in question to determine the final rankings of the two teams. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria 5 to 10 apply in the order given;
Superior goal difference in all group matches;
Higher number of goals scored in all group matches;
If two teams which are tied in all criteria 1 to 6 play their last group match against each other (i.e., the result is a draw and the two teams have the same number of points, goal difference and goals scored), and provided no other teams within the group have the same number of points, the ranking of the two teams in question is determined by penalty shoot-out (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_shoot-out_%28association_football%29). Otherwise, criteria 8 to 10 apply in the order given;
Position in the UEFA national team coefficient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#National_team_coefficient) ranking system;
Fair play conduct of the teams (final tournament);
Drawing of lots.

[osarusan]

Yeah right, I thought Stuttgart was talking about a situation where everything was exactly the same - didn't read his post carefully enough.

[geysir]

I know there's usually this type of talk about 'what would would happen if things finish up the same in the group' but what's the furthest down the list of criteria has it ever gone to separate 2 or 3 teams who finished equal on points?
I don't recall any situation ever being too complicated.

[Stuttgart88]

Ourselves and Hollland drew lots to see who was second and third in 1990. They drew Germany, we drew Romania. Had Egypt equalised against England all 4 teams would have been exactly equal, they'd have drawn lots and Egypt would have lost!

[geysir]

Drew lots? I suppose that sounds more sophisticated than the old method of tossing a coin.

[Stuttgart88]

Great goal Ibrahimovic in France game. England curate's egg again, good in parts but generally not overly impressive and I think Italy will be a cut above Ukraine. Eng got a waxy goal and got away with one at the other end. In a funny way I think Italy are worse opponents for England than Spain. Croatia showed Spain as being vulnerable to a bit of physicality and I thought both Italy and Croatia could have beaten them. Italy might not be as sophisticated but they have more variation than Spain. I can't see Buffon being as easy to beat as Isacsson and the Ukrainian flapper. I hope.

[geysir]

Ukraine's achilles heel was their defending from corners.

[DannyInvincible]

Eng got a waxy goal and got away with one at the other end.

What was the official behind the goal doing? Pointless.

[shakermaker1982]

The official just stared at the post. Bizarre.

England in the first half were like Ireland under the Trap. I thought their MF was overrun & they looked extremely limited.

[brine3]

What was the official behind the goal doing? Pointless.

Blocking the view of John Terry from the camera in the heat of the moment.

Not the first time that's happened.

[Maroon 7]

England have almost been as bad as us with the ball. Only difference is they haven't made the same individual howlers at the back that we were making.

[bennocelt]

Fully expected England to top a weak group, but Ukraine made it hard for them in the first half. Expect them to beat a weak italy team as well. Turned it to the Swedish game in the second half. Cracking game, great goal by Zlaton and great performances by Wihelmsson and Mellburg, but a poor awful French team.

[OwenGoal]

Any of the Swedes retiring after this? Ibrahimavic per chance?

[Charlie Darwin]

Ibrahimovic has said he was going to retire, but their early elimination has given him the motivation to go on and make amends.

[Schumi]

Ourselves and Hollland drew lots... in 1990.

We sure did, all our games!

[Stuttgart88]

Chiellini out for Italy. Who'll come in?

[Murfinator]

Any of the Swedes retiring after this? Ibrahimavic per chance?

Would be nice for us in the next campaign, he's been incredible this Euros. A genuine contender for best player of the first round.

[Murfinator]

Chiellini out for Italy. Who'll come in?

Barzagli and Bonucci I'd imagine. Still an all Juve pairing.

[Stuttgart88]

Would be nice for us in the next campaign, he's been incredible this Euros. A genuine contender for best player of the first round.Despite England beating both of them, last night's Ukraine & Swedish performances, and Sweden's showing against England, make a mockery of the BBC panel "we've nothing to fear from either of those two" remarks at HT on Group D opening day.

[Murfinator]

Yes well the English media have fine form in that area. Despite their beliefs they'll never be good enough to beat those kind of teams with any comfort.

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/media/2009/12/the-sun-world-cup-2010.jpg

[geysir]

It's a strange paradox, the inbred superiority, mixed in with a fatalism because they are an average team.

[tetsujin1979]

not sure where else to post this, how my thumb ended up on RTE: http://tetsujin1979.blogspot.ie/2012/06/tale-of-thumb.html

[BonnieShels]

not sure where else to post this, how my thumb ended up on RTE: http://tetsujin1979.blogspot.ie/2012/06/tale-of-thumb.html

I saw that on Craig Doyle and I actually said, "There's Tets' thumb"

Also, that's an impressively geeky graph. Huzzah.

[fionnsci]

I did a two part part series for my college paper on being at the Euros. Anyhoo, here's the second one if anyone would like to read it. #shamelessadvertising

http://www.universitytimes.ie/?p=10972

[geysir]

I saw that on Craig Doyle and I actually said, "There's Tets' thumb"

There's not even enough evidence to convict.

[BonnieShels]

There's not even enough evidence to convict.

For Craig Doyle's crimes against TV? My watching of it? Or that after the show I kidnapped Mairéad Farrell and now she's rubbing lotion on her skin?
Oops. I said the loud part quiet and the quiet part loud.

[geysir]

Now that you mention it, is there a rap sheet long enough to list all the charges against human decency that show inflicted?

[BonnieShels]

Now that you mention it, is there a rap sheet long enough to list all the charges against human decency that show inflicted?

I dunno. They just have to convict on some sample charges for convenience.

[Stuttgart88]

Thumbs up Tets.

[Stuttgart88]

Comfortable win by Portugal despite the score. Poor finishing, woodwork and good goalkeeping prevented a hiding. Czechs were nowhere.

My only suspicion that they might come into it was when Meireles was taken off for a CB on 85 mins. I hate those substitutions.

[ger121]

Got to say I like Darragh Maloney's style. Putting it up to Giles and Dunphy post match regarding Ronaldo. Streets ahead of Bill

[geysir]

I like Maloney's style he has a bit of grit as well, I suppose it's not fair to compare him with the buffoonery that RTE inflict upon the nation in the form of O'Herlihy.

After Portugal scored, when play resumed I think they kept the ball moving for 5 minutes and had about 95% possession until the game was over.
Czechs tried to get an early goal when that didn't happen they played for penalties. Disgraceful at the end to see their fans applaud such a negative performance.

[Junior]

Lads try watching on BBC. The nauseating commentary from Jonathan Pearce and Martin Keown and their constant ramblings on Ronaldo as if he was the only player on the pitch. Well that and the awesome performance of Howard Webb throughout the tournament.

Back to the studio and more of the same from Linekar and pitch side from Shearer - a BBC editorial line? Thankfully Hansen and Dixon did at least try to throw in a few other salient points such as the limitations of the Portugese Centre pairing and the fact that couthino (sp?) perhaps was more influential on the night.

[BonnieShels]

I switched on BBC at half-time whilst RTÉ went to a break... tHen I asked myself... What did I do that for? soon switched back on that realisation that there was nothing to see here. Move along folks.

[DannyInvincible]

Lads try watching on BBC. The nauseating commentary from Jonathan Pearce and Martin Keown and their constant ramblings on Ronaldo as if he was the only player on the pitch. Well that and the awesome performance of Howard Webb throughout the tournament.

Back to the studio and more of the same from Linekar and pitch side from Shearer - a BBC editorial line? Thankfully Hansen and Dixon did at least try to throw in a few other salient points such as the limitations of the Portugese Centre pairing and the fact that couthino (sp?) perhaps was more influential on the night.

Pearce reminds me of David Attenborough narrating a wildlife documentary, except not half as interesting.

Enjoyed this offering of 'Apres Match':


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdVioe4ro-Q

[BonnieShels]

Moosels!

[tetsujin1979]

I saw that on Craig Doyle and I actually said, "There's Tets' thumb"

Also, that's an impressively geeky graph. Huzzah.thanks, I made that site a while ago to build graphs of how tweets are passed from user to user. The larger the circle, the more followers the user has

[CraftyToePoke]

I had to endure the BBC 3 coverage for the Italy game, Shearer smirking at Staunton in the studio after it was done, Staunton deciding he would look to a brighter future and our young players coming through, then struggling to name any. Christ.

[geysir]

Pearce reminds me of David Attenborough narrating a wildlife documentary, except not half as interesting.

I watched the game on the Sky BBCHD, the sound balance is such (only on BBC) that the crowd noise is so loud from the rear speakers, you can barely hear the commentary coming through the front. Did I hear Pearce in the 2nd half, rambling on about a flea market in the ruins of an old stadium, over the replay of a wonderful move by Portugal which was marginally offside?
I listened to the pundits for a few minutes at half time. Hanson and Dixon kept agreeing with each others banal and boring points in a conspiracy of sorts whilst ignoring what Klinsmann had said in his intelligent overview. That Jurgen is an interesting chap.

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness Keown did say Portugal needed a midfielder to make a decisive break just as Moutinho did just that for Ronaldo's goal.

But the standard of commentary was dire.

Everyone over here now thinks the England spirit is good, momentum is on England's side etc. I'm not ruling England out, they have enough quality to trouble the good teams and to get goals, but the evidence so far is that 3 teams have dominated them for large periods and they got waxy breaks at key times. A nothing shot from Walcott, a double deflected cross with a namby pamby goalie flapping at it and a goal not awarded against them at a key time. They still can't keep the ball and will struggle to do so against Italy. Will Italy take their chances? My mate is in Italy and says Italy fear them.

[geysir]

Lads try watching on BBC. The nauseating commentary from Jonathan Pearce and Martin Keown and their constant ramblings on Ronaldo as if he was the only player on the pitch. Well that and the awesome performance of Howard Webb throughout the tournament.

Back to the studio and more of the same from Linekar and pitch side from Shearer - a BBC editorial line? Thankfully Hansen and Dixon did at least try to throw in a few other salient points such as the limitations of the Portugese Centre pairing and the fact that couthino (sp?) perhaps was more influential on the night.

The pairing of Meireles and Moutinho? They played it tight and cautious in the first 30 minutes. In the 2nd half, both of them moved forward and shackled the Czechs convincingly, Moutinho's passing in particular was very good, he would have been my motm,
only for


and the fact that couthino (sp?) perhaps was more influential on the night
Coentrao? he looks an outstanding footballer, he had an excellent game, hard not to notice that one.

[Junior]

The pairing of Meireles and Moutinho? They played it tight and cautious in the first 30 minutes. In the 2nd half, both of them moved forward and shackled the Czechs convincingly, Moutinho's passing in particular was very good, he would have been my motm,
only for

Not saying I agreed with Hansen but at least he was trying to bring up another point rather than letting Lineker constantly pull everyone back on topic i.e. Ronaldo

I have been a little disappointed in Meireles though from what of I have seen of him in the matches so far (Last night and bits and pieces from the Group games). He's looked good in the EPL but I didnt see so much of it last night.


Coentrao? he looks an outstanding footballer, he had an excellent game, hard not to notice that one.

Sorry yes it was Coentrao. I was posting from the phone which would not be my forté and also got my Mouthino/Couthino (from days gone by!)/Coentrao mixed up:D He was excellent.