Republic of Ireland V Slovakia - Friday, 2nd September 2011 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

[TrapAPony]

John O'Shea is now a major injury doubt according to SSN

^ Beat me to it

[The Fly]

O'Shea ruled out of Russia game (http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2011/0904/1224303469306.html)

[paul_oshea]

Bit late for a postmortem on this, so won't say too much, as having read mosts of the posts already i think its pretty much all been said.

I'd agree mostly with what was being said by murfinator and geysir though. Ward made two great blocks in the first half, but apart from that he was very poor, I thought he was effecting mcgeady getting forward and generally being more assertive going forward. He pulls in way too far from the touchline, defends like ian harte and doesn't offer anything going forward -for ireland anyway. Whatever about spatial awareness lacking in hunt, ward doesn't seem to possess any awareness. He floats about and pulls to far into the CB, leaving oceans of space out on the wing for a any decent winger to exploit, luckily for us it appeared slovakia didn't know how to do this or hadn't someone capable. When you are at a game you notice certain things that you don't see on TV as the camera generally only catches up once the ball is played into a certain area. Watching Ward worried me greatly and for some timely interceptions by mcgeady we could have easily conceded down that side. I said previously that ward was attributed to 5/6 goals against Wolves last season, and I believe against a more attacking or penetrative team we would have conceded through him on friday.

Huntie was not the messiah that created the impetus for us on friday, as was pointed out a couple of times he left ward out on his own when he should have been offering a channel pass or outlet for but he wasn't. He hit one sublime cross but he didn't offer much, granted he was only given a few minutes to do this, but I don't like the way Irish fans always have to find either a scapegoat or a pseudo-hero to pin point blame or reason for particular failings/mass improvements of a team or a manager. Mcgeady made some very timely interceptions in the second half and helped nullify potential fatal consequences when balls were played in over or behind Ward. That said I do think he should have been taken off early as seeing him off the ball he look wrecked.

Back to keane, I said in a different thread that he has easily missed as many(double i reckon) important chances as he has scored for us. Its extremely frustrating as most of the time they seem easier than more difficult ones he would get against lesser opposition - but that in itself might be saying something. However what he offered us, which wouldn't have been as clear for those on tele, was insightful and intelligent running, in behind the Slovakian defence and down into channels as was demonstrated perfectly when dunne played him in i think and he put across to cox, who should clearly have laid if off to andrews for a near definite goal. Keane was doing this all night, but no one was picking him out, or even trying to pick him out. He must have got very frustrated but he was the only alternative to the high ball hoofs to doyle, who was also clearly getting frustrated as it was food and drink to the physically superior and imposing slovak CBs. Keanes problem is that unlike good/great keepers who might not be called about for 80 mins, will pull off a great reflex save, if he is not constantly in the game, when these rare opportunities occur if he has been out of play for a while, he seems rusty/nervous/unsure/whatever and just cant finish them. We still need him though especially when all we seem to do is hoof it forward.

Finally, the longer term servants/respected members on here, were saying how we had progressed, Trap has made us very solid defensively etc etc even up until a month ago, they were also getting caught up a couple of years ago with the hysteria against france and italy games mainly, haven't seemed to realise that what Trap has done is basically negate any attacking capabilities from the team to make us defensively very solid, which is what most have come around to seeing. I actually think we look less like scoring now than we did then, and yes we do concede less, buts its an almost exponential curve really. Under stan or mc, we looked just as likely scoring as we did conceding most of the time. Trap has changed the way we play, stopped our full backs attacking, makes our midfielders sit back, and do nothing just hold a line. gets our best forward option to track back and gets our wingers to defend. ANY team would concede a lot less playing like this. I mean Kerr has managed it at the faroes, but yet they are more attack minded. It is SIMPLE to make a team hard to beat if you knock out any attacking ability going forward. You reap what you sow, and what trap has done has completely negated our attack, but made us very difficult to score against. Its not science, just pretty simple and clear.

I would love more than anything for us to qualify, but I would not like to see us like Greece did in Euro 2004 and bore everyone to death at the Euros and getting to say a semi final. Many people i spoke to after the game were of the opinion, if we lost 3-2 but played some decent football, they would have been more content with that.

[paul_oshea]

OH ya on Dunnes chance and keanes, ledge definitely put dunne off, but i don't think its an excuse to completely miss the target. Again when the cameras went off dunne he look at ledge as if to say what were you doing.

On keanes chance, mypost is in the clouds again, unless put of by skrtels shoulder blade, keane completely mis-timed his jump. Even so, he could and should have still got that header on target. What i didn't figure out though was, the linesman appeared to give it as off-side, but that didn't come through on the TV afterwards?!?!

Either way, the way we play those chances HAVE to be taken if we are expected to win any tight games or games against relatively same or higher standing teams.

[Stuttgart88]

Great post Paul, but for the record I have identified that the challenge is to add invention to the defensive solidity we have. For me, using our full backs to better attacking effect would seem like a logical start. I also feel that if Keane was in the game more he'd have taken that chance. None of our better players ever get a proper feel for the ball as the supply is so erratic. Good goalkeeping analogy.

Trap's methods are a means to an end - an end that justifies any method in my mind. Despite such a flat, sterile performance, only a couple of brain farts from our most experienced players cost us the 3 points, so that's why I'm backing off slating Trap.

[paul_oshea]

I'm not necessarily slating him though, I'm just saying what he has done since he came in, and what he has achieved. You are asking him to change his way by keeping us compact and defensive minded but yet having attacking full backs. That is not how he works. So thats not going to change, how many times did you hear people shouting at oshea/ward, "run","overlap", "go ahead" on Friday? I'm sure instinctively thats what they wanted to do, but have been warned not to.

[ifk101]

Our midfield was crowded out. On occasion it was effectively 5 against 2. Slovakia played with two low lying midfielders so our long ball tactics to Doyle with no midfield support was pointless to the extreme. Ward was caught out of position but there was an unbalance to the midfield that drew him in. If you want to consistently score goals in football you need to pull the opposition's defensive line out of position and get in behind them. It's near impossible to do so with how we play. I don't think our players failed us on the night, our tactics did.

[paul_oshea]

I like that last line, but you still cant defend a 50+ striker from missing that chance, or a seasoned CB completely mis-directing - or just not directing at all - a simple header. But thats something I've been trying to say for a long time now with regards to Trap, you put it sharp and concise :)

The thing is though, I don't think they are going to change whilst Trap is in charge. Unless some of the senior players like cunningham and giles were saying should do what they want/think the team need to do as they are undroppable.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think our players failed us on the night, our tactics did.It'd be nice to see us able to adapt to the 5 man midfield alright. That said, the tactic of doing eff all but waiting for the inevitable great chance very nearly paid off.

Paul, when people criticised our perceived lack of tactical response to going down against Georgia they overlooked the fact that our full backs changed their roles. The same happened in Bari. I think Trap knows it's in our locker - but he only appears to endorse it if we're down. Also, I think Ward looked to get forward but lacked the confidence to do anything other than giove it to McGeady. O'Shea didn't look like a natural full back at all.

The game was crying out for Seamus Coleman at RB, but then we might have lost.

[geysir]

Bit late for a postmortem on this, so won't say too much, as having read mosts of the posts already i think its pretty much all been said.....


Good post Paul, but how long would it have been if you did decide to say much?

[ifk101]

Ward played in attacking positions when with Bohs, either as a striker or on the wing. Doubtful that he doesn't have the confidence to get forward but rather is instructed not to.

[Colbert Report]

Let's just assume for a moment that we lose to Russia and Slovakia beat Armenia on Tuesday. Where does this leave us? Win our last two games and hope for the best?

[paul_oshea]

Good post Paul, but how long would it have been if you did decide to say much?

It would have been very long, regurgitating all the points you made :)

Btw, spatial awareness in Iceland may be a little easier than New York or London, and there aren't any pubs near to craven cottage - that said I did take the scenic route to get there that time :) Still though It definitely wasn't/isn't as long as stutts says if you walk....fast :)

I think slovakias game kicking off after us, gives them a serious advantage.



Paul, when people criticised our perceived lack of tactical response to going down against Georgia they overlooked the fact that our full backs changed their roles. The same happened in Bari. I think Trap knows it's in our locker - but he only appears to endorse it if we're down. Also, I think Ward looked to get forward but lacked the confidence to do anything other than giove it to McGeady. O'Shea didn't look like a natural full back at all.


Ya, I also posted pretty much after the game that we looked too concerned about conceding which inhibited us going forward, we shouldn't automatically use that tactic when only losing. Sometimes winning is just as important as not losing. When you look at the two games now and the injuries that occurred, I think winning against slovakia and losing to Russia would be a far more ideal situation.

I thought Ward looked unsure when he got to the halfway line, I don't actually think it was necessarily nerves all the time, I actually think he was fighting himself(internal struggle, almost instinctively thinking of venturing forward but was unsure, and therefore looked awkward) not to go forward or help out a lot of the time and just get it to mcgeady and go back. Neither full back really ventured past the halfway line. That said Kilbane did look to get forward a bit more often when he played so you could be right.

[DannyInvincible]

Let's just assume for a moment that we lose to Russia and Slovakia beat Armenia on Tuesday. Where does this leave us? Win our last two games and hope for the best?

With two games to go for everyone, that would put Russia on 19 points on Tuesday night compared to our 14 and would mean we could only achieve a maximum of 20 points by beating Andorra and Armenia. Russia will beat Andorra, so they would tally 22 at least under your scenario. Our only hope then would be in finishing second and qualifying for the play-offs. If Slovakia are to beat Armenia, that will put them on 17 points on Tuesday night compared to our 14, if we lose to Russia. Slovakia may well also beat Macedonia in their last game meaning we'd have to count on Russia beating Slovakia in Slovakia. If that were to occur, both ourselves and Slovakia would finish level on 20 points but we'd go through with a superior head-to-head over them alone. Of course, two draws in Slovakia's final two fixtures could leave them with an inferior total of 19. It's not beyond the realms of possibility but I wouldn't like to be putting our hopes of finishing second on that.

[BonnieShels]

Let's just assume for a moment that we lose to Russia and Slovakia beat Armenia on Tuesday. Where does this leave us? Win our last two games and hope for the best?

As of today:

1 Russia 7 5 1 1 10 4 6 16
2 Ireland 7 4 2 1 11 6 5 14
3 Slovakia 7 4 2 1 6 4 2 14

On your assumption assuming we lose 1-0 and Slovakia win 1-0:

1 Russia 8 6 1 1 11 4 7 19
2 Slovakia 8 5 2 1 7 4 3 17
3 Ireland 8 4 2 2 11 7 4 14

We can end up with a maximum of 20 points in that case meaning that Slovakia would have to get at least 4 points to guarantee finishing second.

By the time we have to play Andorra the second-half of SVK-RUS should be in or around the 60min mark.

I really think we need to win on Tuesday as I have a fear of a stitch-up in Zilina.

[paul_oshea]

Bonnie offering competition for places with DI....

After reading your post DI...I'm thinking we really need to ensure we don't lose to Russia. :(

[Colbert Report]

I would hate to have a draw being good enough for Slovakia to finish second and Russia to finish first going into their head-to-head encounter.

I think we're done. There's absolutely no chance we beat Russia on Tuesday and I can't see us finishing second without a major favour from Armenia and/or Macedonia against Slovakia. This is assuming that we beat Armenia at home. We were dead lucky to beat them away, let's not forget that. They're a very good side and well capable of taking points of ourselves and (hopefully) Slovakia.

[BonnieShels]

Bonnie offering competition for places with DI....

After reading your post DI...I'm thinking we really need to ensure we don't lose to Russia. :(

It's no competition Paul. Danny works in stats. I work with a foreboding doubt of Slavic honesty.

In other words if we lose on Tuesday, we're f***ed.

[DannyInvincible]

Aye, unfortunately, I fear we're being naïve if we don't think Russia and Slovakia will settle for a draw in their game. It's probably the safest approach for both of them, even if it does effectively resign one to a play-off, but who's going to leave themselves vulnerable at the back when they've the cushion of the play-offs to risk? It would be highly stupid. I don't think we would do it, so why would we assume Russia or Slovakia would?

Edit: That's assuming we don't win in Moscow first.

[shakermaker1982]

I'd say the full backs are discouraged from venturing past the half way line. (drilled into them more like) I imagine the Trap is big on team structure when an attack breaks down. Roy Hodgson is supposed to be very anal about this as well and stops practice games all the time if players are not 'set' when a team lose the ball. Consequently we only have 4 attacking players when in possession which obviously restricts our attacking prowess. It asks a lot from our wingers, maybe too much. Like PO'S points out this style of play has on the whole done wonders for our defensive record but we are now blunt when with the ball. Under this system it's imperative we take the few chances that fall our way.....unfortunately Keane & Dunne did not take theirs.

I'm not a fully signed up member/disciple of the Trap regime but if he gets us to a play off then this is the way to go because the end justified the means. Failure and the knives are out. You need to see success when persisting with such a rigid and negative formation.

[shakermaker1982]

Always expect the worst when Ireland are relying on other results to go their way in the group. I was too young when Scotland did us a massive favour.....

Beat Russia and we never have to worry that Slovakia-Russia ends up as a cosy 0-0 draw.

[theworm2345]

****, didn't realize the match was at 10:00 AM my time :(

[paul_oshea]

NO classes for you then worm.

[Colbert Report]

Is there a legal way to watch the match in Canada? I have to be at work as the match kicks off at 9am my time, but is there somewhere I can legally watch the game after work, ie. a recorded video service or something? I don't care how much it costs but it must be legal, for reasons I won't put on here I have to be very careful about downloading illegal stuff.

[DannyInvincible]

Is there a legal way to watch the match in Canada? I have to be at work as the match kicks off at 9am my time, but is there somewhere I can legally watch the game after work, ie. a recorded video service or something? I don't care how much it costs but it must be legal, for reasons I won't put on here I have to be very careful about downloading illegal stuff.

Some of the betting sites show games legally if you're registered with them and have a tenner or something similar in your account.

Edit: bwin.com (https://www.bwin.com/default.aspx?zoneid=44316) and bet365 (http://www.bet365.com/home/FlashGen4/WebConsoleApp.asp?affiliate=365_063520) will have streams, according to this (http://www.livefootballol.com/streaming/euro-2012/round-10-russia-ireland-06-09-2011.html).

Edit 2: Sorry, just seeing you meant after work. Hmm, not sure there. Maybe it'll be on RTÉ Player at some point. The Slovakia game is there, for example: http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1110545

[Colbert Report]

Some of the betting sites show games legally if you're registered with them and have a tenner or something similar in your account.

Thanks, you're right and I really do appreciate your reply. The problem is, I can't watch the match live - I need some way to watch it when I get home, which is not until about 11pm Irish time.

[paul_oshea]

maybe you have come up with a great concept there.

A recorded sports site for fans the world over. Buy rights cheap after the games have been played and offer them to fans on a yearly subscription fee.

[Colbert Report]

I just need someone to implement this idea before Tuesday's match.

Didn't Mark Cuban get rich with an idea like this?

[theworm2345]

NO classes for you then worm.
Classes start Wednesday, it just means I'll have to go to the gym at like 7:30 rather than 9:30 :(

[Noelys Guitar]

Thanks, you're right and I really do appreciate your reply. The problem is, I can't watch the match live - I need some way to watch it when I get home, which is not until about 11pm Irish time.

Can you get ESPN3 online? They will have a repeat of the game about 10 mins after it offically ends. And you have a 48 hour window to get to watch it. I have often watched the games again especially when I have gone to the boozer to watch the match and either can't remember the entire match or want to relive an Ireland win or draw.

[Colbert Report]

Can you get ESPN3 online? They will have a repeat of the game about 10 mins after it offically ends. And you have a 48 hour window to get to watch it. I have often watched the games again especially when I have gone to the boozer to watch the match and either can't remember the entire match or want to relive an Ireland win or draw.

ESPN3 is not available in Canada as far as I'm aware.

[DannyInvincible]

Thanks, you're right and I really do appreciate your reply. The problem is, I can't watch the match live - I need some way to watch it when I get home, which is not until about 11pm Irish time.

Would this (http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1110545) work for you? RTÉ are bound to have it uploaded by 11PM our time. That'll be 5 hours after full-time.

[Colbert Report]

Would this (http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1110545) work for you? RTÉ are bound to have it uploaded by 11PM our time. That'll be 5 hours after full-time.

I'm not sure. It comes up as "the content you are trying to access is not currently available for viewing, as it has expired, been removed, or is restricted to another territory."

I should be able to watch the Slovakia match from Friday on RTE player right? If it works then surely the Russia one will too? I can't seem to find the Slovakia game on there, can anyone help me out? Many, many thanks.

[DannyInvincible]

There's are ways around the geoblock. I'm not sure of the legality of that though.

[Colbert Report]

I'm applying to become a police officer so I can't access any stuff illegally. However, if the content is not made commercially available in my country then surely they can't hold downloading it after the fact off a torrent site against me? The problem is, the match is available over a Setanta pub channel but I'd have to pay $20 (which isn't a big deal), and take the morning off work (which is a big deal), in order to see the match live. I'd gladly pay $100 to be able to watch it after the fact via video recording. So frustrating...

[DannyInvincible]

I don't think circumventing a geoblock is illegal for personal use.

[Colbert Report]

I don't think circumventing a geoblock is illegal for personal use.

I'll have a look into it then. Good idea. I don't see how what I'm trying to do is really immoral, for Christ's sake I'm just trying to watch a football match and not miss work at the same time. I'm sure they'll understand if questioned on it. I've downloaded torrents of the matches after the fact for years, I only stopped doing it recently due to this application.

[DannyInvincible]

I know Pirate Bay is blocked by Eircom in Ireland, for example. But it's all a bit pointless as I'm pretty sure someone intent on downloading a pirated copy of a movie or whatever wouldn't be too bothered about circumventing such a block by using a foreign proxy if they're OK with downloading a movie in the first place. And that's assuming they don't just access another of the multitude of torrent sites around the web in order to download whatever it is they're looking for. Anyway, I've digressed from a digression; in countries that have signed up to the 1996 WIPO Copyright Treaty (Canada and most, if not all, EU members are signatories), it is illegal to circumvent geoblocks, except for personal use, and apparently it is also illegal to publicise the existence of circumvention tools, so, seeing as you watching a game would be for personal rather than commercial use, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to search for a way around RTÉ's geoblock on Google yourself... :p

Have a read of this: http://etcjournal.com/2010/03/04/youtube_geoblocks_proxies/

[geysir]

Irish Torrents had the Irl Slovak game available about 24 hours after the game finished.
I don't think you would get any faster on a torrent site and definitely not from Pirate Bay.

[theworm2345]

I'll have a look into it then. Good idea. I don't see how what I'm trying to do is really immoral, for Christ's sake I'm just trying to watch a football match and not miss work at the same time. I'm sure they'll understand if questioned on it. I've downloaded torrents of the matches after the fact for years, I only stopped doing it recently due to this application.
It is easy to access stuff on RTE player if you know how...whether or not its legal, I don't know. I know you're on MaXxed and by the time you get home (11 Irish time as you say) the match will undoubtedly be up (you'll probably have multiple options), especially as it is the only match on in the slot it is. There is also a Russian site similar to MaXxed called RGFootball that will probably have it. I've heard ESPN3 can be accessed if you have an XBOX Online or whatever its called account (maybe not in Canada, I don't know), so maybe look in to that. Theres also a service called Fox Soccer TV available online where you can pay to get games on demand, but I don't know if they'd have it.


Irish Torrents had the Irl Slovak game available about 24 hours after the game finished.
I don't think you would get any faster on a torrent site and definitely not from Pirate Bay.
How do you register?

[Noelys Guitar]

ESPN3 is widely available in Canada and a host of other countries. Every university in North America has it. And if you get your cable from any of these companies then you can get espn3 http://espn.go.com/espn3/affList

[Colbert Report]

ESPN3 is widely available in Canada and a host of other countries. Every university in North America has it. And if you get your cable from any of these companies then you can get espn3 http://espn.go.com/espn3/affList

Are you sure? I don't believe it is available here in Alberta. I have Shaw as my internet provider if that helps. I don't see it on the list.

[boovidge]

territory blocks are very easy to get past with a VPN. A decent enough one for watching video would only cost a few quid a month.

[Colbert Report]

Never mind, it is available here, I just signed up and I'm watching the Slovakia match now. Great stuff, thanks to everybody here for helping me out. I just hope they have the Russia match up there by the time I get home from work, about four or five hours after full time.

[Noelys Guitar]

Never mind, it is available here, I just signed up and I'm watching the Slovakia match now. Great stuff, thanks to everybody here for helping me out. I just hope they have the Russia match up there by the time I get home from work, about four or five hours after full time.

Are you going to resist checking the score CR?

[Colbert Report]

Are you going to resist checking the score CR?

Avoiding the results of football matches is a full-time job here in Canada. I can't tell you the number of times I've received text messages from well-meaning friends and colleagues after they see the Ireland result. Thankfully, I work in construction so have no access to a computer throughout the workday. I simply turn the phone off and avoid any and all websites until after I've watched the match.

[tricky_colour]

Irish Torrents had the Irl Slovak game available about 24 hours after the game finished.
I don't think you would get any faster on a torrent site and definitely not from Pirate Bay.

I can't get Irish torrents to work if you mean
http://www.irishtorrents.com/index.php
Grey text on a grey background - nice!!!
Maybe it only works in Ireland or maybe not not at all.

[theworm2345]

I can get Irish torrents to work if you mean
http://www.irishtorrents.com/index.php
Grey text on a grey background - nice!!!
Maybe it only works in Ireland or maybe not not at all.
I'm sure it works everywhere, but registrations are closed to the public, invite only right now
http://www.irishtorrents.com/register.php

[AlaskaFox]

I have 2 invites for it, if people want to PM me their email.

[theworm2345]

I have 2 invites for it, if people want to PM me their email.
I'd be interested if there were any Classic Irish matches on there, if not, no worries