Macedonia V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 4th June 2011 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

[Charlie Darwin]

This Examiner?

1768
One and the same. Angry Fans is particularly hilarious/lacking in self-awareness.

[BonnieShels]

Loved this quote from Trap for some reason:


“Finally, the team is now playing the way we wanted it to,” he said.

“It has acquired the right mentality but the players must now maintain this level of performance. If they do then we can play with confidence against anyone.

“We don’t know whether we can command the field but we are better at fighting for control now,” he said.

“When we have the ball we play and look to score. But when we lose the ball it’s important that we have this attitude. When it happened against Macedonia (Robbie) Keane and (Simon) Cox were the first men pressing against their defence. That’s important. I have had many teams with this mentality; teams with creative players but also the right attitude.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0606/1224298468227.html

[geysir]

I wouldn't object if Trap had ambitions about improving our passing.

[BonnieShels]

I wouldn't object if Trap had ambitions about improving our passing.


I reckon that's stage 2 after he steals the underpants.

[Stuttgart88]

I'll give Whelan the benefit of the doubt in that regard, he was injured and the pitch was awful. Fahey has been carrying an injury by the sound of things, and Gibson was, eh, not there. Those 3 can pass. Of course it helps if the receiver has a decent touch and shows intelligently.

I'd like to see the Guardian Chalkboard, or similar technology, show where our midfielders are making passes when we are ahead, and when we are chasing a goal. My guess is that they're further up the pitch when we're chasing, and hence they're nearer the front two.

Remember the away friendly in Norway? Whelan and S. Reid dictating the first half in their half of the pitch. Norway couldn't get out of their half. What has happened since?!

[geysir]

What has happened since?!
Norway are now in pot 1 :)
Anyway, Norway are not a great example. They were practicing their version of the catenaccio in advance of Egil Olsen's second coming.
They tend to bi-pass midfield technology and depend upon a pair of Alan O'Briens to do the running

[elroy]

It amazes the way some Irish fans react to good results i.e. never happy. The same fans were probably telling us all how tricky this game was and how Trap is useless and we'd be lucky to get a draw. Some journos are as bad, listening to smug Dion Fanning on newstalk talking down Trap or his tactics or his selections, what the fcuk does a nobody whos father runs the paper know about football in comparison to Trap.

We should all know now how Trap plays. Is it a coincidence that we start games so well under Trap score quite early and then defend/counter attack for the rest of the game. Most of the time it works and we are getting better at it. We were particularly good at it in the second half on sat. So much so that I almost have more confidence in Ireland playing away from home these days than at home. Its not the most attractive to watch and it can be nerve wracking but we're not Barca and anyone who compares the CL final to last saturday really isnt getting it. The extreme buzz of Ireland scoring a goal, more than beats watching silky football ala Barca for me.

All in all a great nights work. Keane and Shay were immense. McGeady is finally proving his worth for us, did his job excellent, provided a creative outlet when needed. I thought Andrews did well and is more composed on the ball than Whelan. The defence was shaky at times and we were lucky to keep a clean sheet. Hunt worked his socks off. But to a man they gave it their all and you gotta be proud of it, id say there was some serious tired bodies after. Thats the commitment you want to the cause, limited talent maybe but no doubting commitment - certain absentees take note.

We're in a damn fine position now. A win at home (difficult and all as it will be) to Slovakia would almost guarantee second spot and would leave us heading to Russia in high spirits. Please lets keep the main men (Shay, Dunne, Sledge, JOSH, Keane, McGeady, Duff, Hunt, Andrews) fit and god let us do it this time!!!

[lionelhutz]

Fair enough so who should Trap pick? Fahey has a case for inclusion but again touch and go with Andrews. .

I agree with most of your post Noely but I have to take issue with this part. Fahey is a level above Andrews as a midfielder IMO. Andrews constantly gave the ball away - in particular the 2nd half. I think a midfield of Fahey Whelan would have much better balance and we'd be able to keep the ball better.

Also, several posters have said Long did no better than Cox when he came on. Do people not realise how much more difficult it is to make your mark on the game as a sub? I thought Cox was anonymous besides the disallowed goal - Long should have started and should definitely be third in line behind Doyle and Keane.

Aside from the above, I'm over the moon with the result and I was shocked that we closed out the second half so easily. Awful at the back 1st half, excellent 2nd half.

[geysir]

I think Fahey was off his game against Scotland - suffering with migraine?
The point is Stutts (as Eirebhoy observed) with Steven Reid, is that apart from having ability, he had the intelligence and confidence to know what to do, what Trap wanted and more. And if a player has that, Trap is not going to read the riot act to and stick a straightjacket on. Whelan in that context (with Reid) was more than compatible. The Montenegro away game (not the Norway game) was an example of that and that was with an injured Reid.
I would be worried if Trap thought that we had reached some nirvana in all aspects of our game.
"When we have the ball we play and look to score" There is a lot of room to improve on what we do when we have the ball and Trap believes more consistency leads to more confidence against the better teams.

I almost missed this bit at the end of Malone's IT article, sounds ominous but not a finality.
“We had 26 or 27 players in the squad, now the priority will be those who came and played,” he said. “I don’t forget (Darron) Gibson or (Marc) Wilson but obviously they have to show that they deserve their place.”

[Jicked]

Cox's movement created a lot of space for others, in particular Robbie who suddenly had the ball in front of their back four a few times, including the one which created the first goal. Cox also scored a very good goal which was wrongly disallowed, hard to say he was anonymous.

As for Fahey/Andrews, Fahey definitely distributes the ball better than Andrews, but Keith is a much more destructive player and helps keep the shape of the team very well by being very disciplined. When you've got a back four of O'Dea, O'Shea, Kilbane and Kelly it was absolutely the correct decision to make to give them as much protection as you could in front of them to prevent Pandev and his mates running at the dodgy centre of defence. Not least after Fahey had failed to really impose his passing game in the Nations Cup game just before Macedonia.

[French Toasht]

Cox also scored a very good goal which was wrongly disallowed, hard to say he was anonymous.

In fairness the keeper and defenders heard the whistle and stopped playing a good 3 or 4 seconds before the ball hit the back of the net. Far from certain to say he would have scored that, had the ref allowed play to progress.

[geysir]

More like a split second.

[lionelhutz]

There were several times where we knocked the ball long - no pun intended - and it came straight back because Cox and Keane weren't able to hold it up. If Long had started, I've no doubt if he would have held the ball better high up the field and the team would have been able to push up as a unit relieving the pressure. I'll put it this way, if September comes around, Doyle is injured and the choice was between Cox and Long, who would you chose?

With regards Fahey/Andrews, I agree Andrews is more destructive and would be of more use against stronger opposition who would have the majority of possession. However, against Macedonia, if Fahey had started we wouldn't have to be as destructive as we would have kept the ball better than them IMO.

[SwanVsDalton]

As for Fahey/Andrews, Fahey definitely distributes the ball better than Andrews, but Keith is a much more destructive player and helps keep the shape of the team very well by being very disciplined. When you've got a back four of O'Dea, O'Shea, Kilbane and Kelly it was absolutely the correct decision to make to give them as much protection as you could in front of them to prevent Pandev and his mates running at the dodgy centre of defence. Not least after Fahey had failed to really impose his passing game in the Nations Cup game just before Macedonia.

Agree. Also I think people forget that Andrews is by far our most dynamic and athletic centre mid. He really does put himself about while keeping his discipline. And, when it comes to these crucial games in September, I'll be expecting him to reach for the Paris fire that saw him totally merc Diarra.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think anyone can say Cox had a goal disallowed. What is fair to say is that he was denied a clear chance when put one-on-one with their keeper, with time to take a good touch. The keeper knew he was off, and I think Cox did too, but he was making sure. You'd look like some tool if you just gave up, and there was no whistle.

[pineapple stu]

More like a split second.
Definitely more than that. The defenders and keeper had all clearly stopped playing even as Cox lined up the shot, let alone by the time it hit the net. A great chance alright, but far from a definite goal.

[geysir]

I don't argue that at least the goalkeeper was half hearted after hearing the whistle and the defender had checked his own run.
But that all takes place in the blink of an eye.
4 or 5 seconds is an eternity.

[pineapple stu]

It was way longer than the split of an eye. No-one said it was or 5 seconds. It was blatantly obvious before the shot was taken that none of the defenders (incl the keeper) were going to make any effort blocking it.

[Stuttgart88]

Maybe it was a rub of the eye then.

[SwanVsDalton]

Macedonians launch protests against police brutality. (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/07/macedonia-erupts-aft.html?dlvrit=36761) Hmmm fortunate fans are well out of this one.

[paul_oshea]

I hate seeing phrases like this, United play badly and win and it's the sign of Champions, Ireland play shoite and get a result and it's because of dumb luck and we'll be found out and Trapattoni is useless and his starting XI is a joke and will someone for the love of God replace Kevin Kilbane and every single goal Robbie Keane scores should be discounted because the opposition were terrible and there was another player in a better position and we should appoint an Irish manager because he would understand the mentality of the players and so on ad nauseum

i really don't see why so many people agreed with this, but then again I generally don't agree with most on here but those that I go to the matches with. If and when we win a Euros/WC come back to me then and say I am wrong. But until we are in a position of "griding out results" like champions, and not getting the rub of the green like we are now, then many of those points made by others(and even you in ranting against them) still stand clear, fair and apt.

last campaign we didn't get the rub of the green/the luck like we are now, and never qualified for the world cup. Thats what Trap HAS to do this campaign or else he will be seen as little more than a steady hand.

[Stuttgart88]

Funny, there were many last campaign saying that all we got was the rub of the green.

There's no way Trap will qualify for the World Cup this campaign.:)

I do actually think we've got lucky at times, but no more than Russia or Slovakia have. Macedonia missed a penno to equalise against Russia, Russia's third was an even worse deflection than Robbie's, and so on...

Also, when you get a lucky break early on, it's not the same as saying that without that lucky break we wouldn't have scored at all. We scored early against Macedonia twice, and got lucky second goals twice. There was still an hour to go in each case. At that point we just did our usual "you have it, we don't need to score".

If we got a lucky break on 87 minutes I'd agree with you more. We've scored when we needed to in so many games under Trap you can't put it down to luck. We do what we have to do in the scoring stakes, regardless of how they come, but rarely any more.

[geysir]

No-one said it was or 5 seconds.

Did you mean to write - No-one said it was 4 or 5 seconds.?

I said eternity was 4 or 5 seconds.
Another said as much that Cox had 3 or 4 seconds after the whistle blew before he struck the ball.

Watch the match and use your stopwatch :)

[geysir]

I generally don't agree with most on here but those that I go to the matches with
Dogs of a feather lying down together.

[paul_oshea]

we have alwys scored early and reverted to type. of course it doesn't matter when you get lucky but we got lucky in that the usual quick reply didn't happen because a penalty was never given and another was missed. Against a big team like russia you can be sure that 1 would have been scored and most likely the other given too and also scored.

We were in general, very poor, but so were macedonia i put that down to severe pressure on them, like misplaced passes, individual errors, bad first touch because it was the first game in the new stadium and the crowd were really expectant. It was a different team than at home I felt, and a different one from what I saw of the Russia game.

[paul_oshea]

Dogs of a feather lying down together.

Maybe, but you find that when you are at a match you see a lot more of what goes on than when watching on T.V.

Equally the same can be said of all on here - but that was probably lost on you when you said, sitting on your pedestal ;).

[geysir]

Serious?
You're a soft target for an obvious wind up :D

[paul_oshea]

Me? Rarely serious. Unless someones tries to rob my manbag.

Or when sky rip me off just to watch one match....

[the bear]

We were in general, very poor, but so were macedonia i put that down to severe pressure on them, like misplaced passes, individual errors, bad first touch because it was the first game in the new stadium and the crowd were really expectant. It was a different team than at home I felt, and a different one from what I saw of the Russia game.

we went out to a tough away game in a hostile stadium with a threadbare defence and got the result. i think we did a good job, you can say the performance was poor but it was as good as was required, i think if more was required we would of been capable of upping it. the only thing that matters was the result and we went there and delivered

[paul_oshea]

They were hostile to their own fans. Listening to the game after being there and we were way louder throughout the game.

We got the result we required, with poor players, against poor players with a big dose of luck.

[Fixer82]

Yeah I agree but. Fahey is much neater in possession and doesn't give the ball away cheaply very often. But I thought Andrews was better than Whelan on Saturday and has been in last few games he's played.

[geysir]

Me? Rarely serious. Unless someones tries to rob my manbag.

Or when sky rip me off just to watch one match....
Paul, what happened there? first you were serious then all of a sudden there was an edit to make it a bit lighter.

Pity you can't do that with your life, go back and throw in a few edits :)

[paul_oshea]

The original one? I never edited the above one. The original one cos I spelt pedestal wrong and i didn't want to get caught out ;)

[the bear]

Yeah I agree but. Fahey is much neater in possession and doesn't give the ball away cheaply very often. But I thought Andrews was better than Whelan on Saturday and has been in last few games he's played.

im not really a fan of whelans at all. i would go with fahey and andrews for slovakia

[SwanVsDalton]

If and when we win a Euros/WC come back to me then and say I am wrong. .

Srsly? That's like Brian Cowen telling critics of his economic policy to come back when Ireland's the richest country in the world. Teams don't have to be champs to grind out the occasional result, particularly at international level.

It's easy to say the team is rubbish when it goes wrong, but there's not question when things go right - all luck. But there's been too much luck for it to be simply that.

I agree with you about what Trap will ultimately be judged by, as loads of people surely do, but I don't know why you see that as incompatible with giving the team an occasional bit of credit.

[French Toasht]

Ah come on, credit where credit is due. The team we put out tonight consisted of a hell of a lot less experienced and accomplished players than our Italian counterparts, yet through sheer endevour and enthusiasm we managed to beat them 2-0. It was clear to me that the Italians were already on their holidays but what you will always get with Trap's teams is honesty of effort and 100% commitment (I'm referring to the players, when they are on the field). It's well publicised that our players do not feature regularly with their clubs, yet we lie joint top of our group. What more can the naysayers ask for?

[Stuttgart88]

To be outright top?

[TheBoss]

As a result of Ireland's win over Macedonia on Saturday, the team has equaled the Irish record for most games unbeaten away from home. They are equal with the team of 14th October 1992 - 3rd June 1995. (Ended 6th September 1995 when losing to Austria 3-1)

Last away defeat was 1-0 loss to Czech Republic on the 12th September 2007. So if they avoid defeat against Russia in September a new record would be set.

[tetsujin1979]

strange how the fact that we won in the white jersey has not been mentioned...

[geysir]

It's the hooped socks.
Ever since the team have had the hooped socks, the jinx has been lifted.

[DannyInvincible]

It's the hooped socks.
Ever since the team have had the hooped socks, the jinx has been lifted.

I remember some Umbro spiel about the hooped socks when the new kits were being unveiled. They were claiming that they'd have the effect of dazzling opponents and would make it more difficult for them to read the movements of our players' feet. Sounded like a load of bull**** at the time, of course, but maybe it is something rooted in the psychology of perception, after all.

[Stuttgart88]

When was our first win in white? Cyprus 2001?

[French Toasht]

Did the infamous orange jersey only ever have one run out (ie the 3-2 defeat to Macedonia in 1997)?

[tetsujin1979]

When was our first win in white? Cyprus 2001?

Malta 99? Nearly lost that one too

[Stuttgart88]

I'm pretty sure we wore green in that one.

[AlaskaFox]

I'm pretty sure we wore green in that one.

Surely did wear green in the Malta 99 game. It's one of the photos I used in the Keane goals article.

[tetsujin1979]

yep, we were in green
there's some photos on sportsfile, here's Staunton in that game: http://www.sportsfile.com/id/029162/

[pineapple stu]

Did you mean to write - No-one said it was 4 or 5 seconds.?
I did, yep. Typo.


Another said as much that Cox had 3 or 4 seconds after the whistle blew before he struck the ball.
Nope; what was said was "in fairness the keeper and defenders heard the whistle and stopped playing a good 3 or 4 seconds before the ball hit the back of the net." Big difference. And, I think, correct.


Watch the match and use your stopwatch :)
Actually, I was looking for highlights to do just that, and all the ones I found left it out entirely! Bit strange.

[Murfinator]

My dad was telling me he read in one of the papers today about a scuffle in the camp prior to the Macedonia game where one player confronted another and pushed them to the ground, the grounded player being a "well known long time player".

All sounds very vague, anyone know anymore on that?

[DannyInvincible]

Surely, that would have been all over the papers at the time, no?