View Full Version : Trouble outside Stadiums
horton
27/03/2011, 3:58 PM
Harleyleeds, what difference will reporting who the stoners are make? There is a difference between knowing who is responsible and proving it/getting something done. Hell, coming from the area myself I could probably hazard a guess at a few of the ringleaders. Chances are those involved are not DCFC fans but local hoods, banning them from the stadium won't make much of a difference. If they watch the games they do it from Skint Hill so there is nothing the club can do to punish them. The less said about having the PSNI patrolling the ground the better. . .
El-Pietro
27/03/2011, 4:13 PM
very surprised to hear this. We've never had any hassle whatsoever in Derry. Can walk in and out of the ground feeling quite safe.
very surprised to hear this. We've never had any hassle whatsoever in Derry. Can walk in and out of the ground feeling quite safe.
Of course you can, most other LOI clubs are the same, bar one for some reason
Nesta99
27/03/2011, 4:36 PM
. Trouble is not new to LOI and Sligo was one of the main sets of fans who were not welcome anywhere because of holigans..
Thats news to me! sure you are not mixing the two Rovers up?
Anyhow, returning home from the Brandywell about 10yrs ago the supporters coach I was on was attacked - there is little animosity between Dundalk and Derry, it was obviously a few local sh*theads indulging in that uniquely Northern Irish activity of recreational rioting and we were side act - wrong place wrong time. Never happened again upon any return visit.
For Derry fans to say that rovers were inciting trouble by whatever was being sung by their support is weak, thats football, fans sing insulting songs world over...dont be so soft.
Outside the ground should be policed by the PSNI (I understand the historical/political context of the location), but again the club and police should be liasing about this. If it is not possible to police the Brandywell area well then think again before spending that nice chunk of cash heading your way on a ground in a policing no go area.
Shams fans in particular mypost - get over yourself and this persecution complex, the reason your fans behaviour is scrutinised is because you are the most successful club in the LoI, play out of the top ground, are current league champs, model club, wealthiest etc etc all those things that you constantly remind the rest of us of; and element of your travelling support regularily cause trouble....the best worst fans. Like it or not the scrutiny has more to do with the apparent regularity of incidents and the subsequent expectation that somthing is going to happen.
Dundalk have worked hard in improving security in an around Oriel Park at significant cost for away, home support, and local residents. Maybe some Bohs fans might like to comment but the security effort is excellent with the Mounted police unit and the Dog unit available. Fans are kept well apart and potential hotspots for the stone throwers are closely monitored. Recent Setanta cup games have highlighted the success of the efforts, so it can be done if the will is there. Its not perfect and there is always a chance some idiot will get through but thankfull more likely the exception than the rule. As for our own travelling support well lets hope that our scumbags are not given the oppertunity to embaress us due to appropriate security at aways grounds -Tallaght for example is excellent to travel to for this very reason
Thats news to me! sure you are not mixing the two Rovers up?
Anyhow, returning home from the Brandywell about 10yrs ago the supporters coach I was on was attacked - there is little animosity between Dundalk and Derry, it was obviously a few local sh*theads indulging in that uniquely Northern Irish activity of recreational rioting and we were side act - wrong place wrong time. Never happened again upon any return visit.
For Derry fans to say that rovers were inciting trouble by whatever was being sung by their support is weak, thats football, fans sing insulting songs world over...dont be so soft.
Outside the ground should be policed by the PSNI (I understand the historical/political context of the location), but again the club and police should be liasing about this. If it is not possible to police the Brandywell area well then think again before spending that nice chunk of cash heading your way on a ground in a policing no go area.
Shams fans in particular mypost - get over yourself and this persecution complex, the reason your fans behaviour is scrutinised is because you are the most successful club in the LoI, play out of the top ground, are current league champs, model club, wealthiest etc etc all those things that you constantly remind the rest of us of; and element of your travelling support regularily cause trouble....the best worst fans. Like it or not the scrutiny has more to do with the apparent regularity of incidents and the subsequent expectation that somthing is going to happen.
Dundalk have worked hard in improving security in an around Oriel Park at significant cost for away, home support, and local residents. Maybe some Bohs fans might like to comment but the security effort is excellent with the Mounted police unit and the Dog unit available. Fans are kept well apart and potential hotspots for the stone throwers are closely monitored. Recent Setanta cup games have highlighted the success of the efforts, so it can be done if the will is there. Its not perfect and there is always a chance some idiot will get through but thankfull more likely the exception than the rule. As for our own travelling support well lets hope that our scumbags are not given the oppertunity to embaress us due to appropriate security at aways grounds -Tallaght for example is excellent to travel to for this very reason
I'd agree there, if the songs were actually sung inside the ground and not outside in a bar close to the ground were locals are present, big difference there.
Nesta99
27/03/2011, 5:07 PM
Not so sure CTID, ok maybe there is an underlying context that makes such behaviour particularily insensitive and also leaves away supporters open to attacks from people not associated with the game. But if you think Glentoran fans didnt sing Rule Britannia while walking up the Carrick Rd outside the ground for example. I dont know if what was sung merited an attack. Maybe i'm naively underestimating the level of insult.
EivissaPaul
27/03/2011, 5:22 PM
I agree with Nesta99, certain clubs do manage crowds well i.e Dundalk. When there was the trouble from a small part of the Rovers fans the Gardai were very quick to move in and deal with it. Like i said, If Derry v Rovers is a problematic fixture, Derry need to do more about it. There is plenty that can be done and the Rovers board are very pro-active in identifying trouble makes. They identified certain culprits that were caught on camera and named them to Gardai and this led to prosecution.. So is it a communication problem between the two clubs? Do the PSNI not receive information on these problems?? I have been to every league ground in the country to watch Shamrock Rover and only twice to the Brandywell. I can honestly say I was surprised a bit when i heard about the problems.. granted i have not been for a good 8 years. In all my away travels i have rarely seen trouble.. normally great banter in the pub before and after, but i am aware that the bad name some idiots have caused rovers hasn't been made up.. old expression 'no smoke without fire' etc..
Thats news to me! sure you are not mixing the two Rovers up?
Anyhow, returning home from the Brandywell about 10yrs ago the supporters coach I was on was attacked - there is little animosity between Dundalk and Derry, it was obviously a few local sh*theads indulging in that uniquely Northern Irish activity of recreational rioting and we were side act - wrong place wrong time. Never happened again upon any return visit.
For Derry fans to say that rovers were inciting trouble by whatever was being sung by their support is weak, thats football, fans sing insulting songs world over...dont be so soft.
Outside the ground should be policed by the PSNI (I understand the historical/political context of the location), but again the club and police should be liasing about this. If it is not possible to police the Brandywell area well then think again before spending that nice chunk of cash heading your way on a ground in a policing no go area.
Shams fans in particular mypost - get over yourself and this persecution complex, the reason your fans behaviour is scrutinised is because you are the most successful club in the LoI, play out of the top ground, are current league champs, model club, wealthiest etc etc all those things that you constantly remind the rest of us of; and element of your travelling support regularily cause trouble....the best worst fans. Like it or not the scrutiny has more to do with the apparent regularity of incidents and the subsequent expectation that somthing is going to happen.
Dundalk have worked hard in improving security in an around Oriel Park at significant cost for away, home support, and local residents. Maybe some Bohs fans might like to comment but the security effort is excellent with the Mounted police unit and the Dog unit available. Fans are kept well apart and potential hotspots for the stone throwers are closely monitored. Recent Setanta cup games have highlighted the success of the efforts, so it can be done if the will is there. Its not perfect and there is always a chance some idiot will get through but thankfull more likely the exception than the rule. As for our own travelling support well lets hope that our scumbags are not given the oppertunity to embaress us due to appropriate security at aways grounds -Tallaght for example is excellent to travel to for this very reason
Was that the time that a van load of incredibly drunk Dundalk supporters thought they would head on down into the Bogside to show the locals how hard men they were, then went crying to the media when they ran like ***k.
The only place there has been any mention of any trouble at Fridays game with Rovers is on the Rovers forum, and for all their posting there is no post giving us a clear idea of what supposedly happened. Derry has en playing football in the LOI now since 1985, and the only bit of trouble there ever was in the Brandywell involved Rovers supporters. Now i'm sue most of Rovers supporters are well behaved fans, it's just unfortunate they have more than their fair share of dumb nuts, who have more interest in drinking them self into a stupor than watching a football game.
Nesta99
27/03/2011, 5:34 PM
[QUOTE=Derry;1470061]Was that the time that a van load of incredibly drunk Dundalk supporters thought they would head on down into the Bogside to show the locals how hard men they were, then went crying to the media when they ran like ***k.
QUOTE]
No! But well done for the attempted deflection
Not so sure CTID, ok maybe there is an underlying context that makes such behaviour particularily insensitive and also leaves away supporters open to attacks from people not associated with the game. But if you think Glentoran fans didnt sing Rule Britannia while walking up the Carrick Rd outside the ground for example. I dont know if what was sung merited an attack. Maybe i'm naively underestimating the level of insult.
I dont think many are up to date with the recent political history of the area, it may not insult Derry fans within the ground, but outside of it and the surrounding area is a very different matter. So yes I believe you are being a little naive in this instance
bullit
27/03/2011, 5:37 PM
Was that the time that a van load of incredibly drunk Dundalk supporters thought they would head on down into the Bogside to show the locals how hard men they were, then went crying to the media when they ran like ***k.
Your taking the pi$$ LOL "went crying to the media", make it up as you go along sure LOL.
Yes the incident did happen and those fans are now banned from the club, but dont be coming on adding parts to the story.
Nesta99
27/03/2011, 5:44 PM
I dont think many are up to date with the recent political history of the area, it may not insult Derry fans within the ground, but outside of it and the surrounding area is a very different matter. So yes I believe you are being a little naive in this instance
I bow to your local knowledge. An increased police presence would just increase the number of targets....'recent political history'? how recent is recent? pm me if necessary
I bow to your local knowledge. An increased police presence would just increase the number of targets....'recent political history'? how recent is recent? pm me if necessary
Well so recent that right now there is a bomb alert by Dissidents about 1/2 a mile away from the ground right at this very moment. The Brandywell/Bogside is Dissident stronghold
This thread is doing no favours whatsoever to the "discover Northern Ireland" ad on the right of my screen.;)
Rasputin
27/03/2011, 7:28 PM
Thats news to me! sure you are not mixing the two Rovers up?
Hes on about years ago back in the 70s and 80s.
There hasnt been anything serious up here for years.
harleyleeds
27/03/2011, 7:33 PM
Harleyleeds, what difference will reporting who the stoners are make? There is a difference between knowing who is responsible and proving it/getting something done. Hell, coming from the area myself I could probably hazard a guess at a few of the ringleaders. Chances are those involved are not DCFC fans but local hoods, banning them from the stadium won't make much of a difference. If they watch the games they do it from Skint Hill so there is nothing the club can do to punish them. The less said about having the PSNI patrolling the ground the better. . .
Im very sorry I wasnt referring to Derry but to stoning in general . I did mention that the police and Derry dont go together. I was saying all the (any)club can do is ban troublemakers. I dont think I asked for ruc in the Brandywell and if it seems I did again I appologise as it wasnt my intention . Very sorry again to have spoken in error please nobody take offence from what I said . I will sumarise what I was trying to say ......... attacking the buses (any buses) is wrong and hopefully it can be stopped . please disregard any previous statements.
harleyleeds
27/03/2011, 7:42 PM
Thats news to me! sure you are not mixing the two Rovers up?
Anyhow, returning home from the Brandywell about 10yrs ago the supporters coach I was on was attacked - there is little animosity between Dundalk and Derry, it was obviously a few local sh*theads indulging in that uniquely Northern Irish activity of recreational rioting and we were side act - wrong place wrong time. Never happened again upon any return visit.
For Derry fans to say that rovers were inciting trouble by whatever was being sung by their support is weak, thats football, fans sing insulting songs world over...dont be so soft.
Outside the ground should be policed by the PSNI (I understand the historical/political context of the location), but again the club and police should be liasing about this. If it is not possible to police the Brandywell area well then think again before spending that nice chunk of cash heading your way on a ground in a policing no go area.
Shams fans in particular mypost - get over yourself and this persecution complex, the reason your fans behaviour is scrutinised is because you are the most successful club in the LoI, play out of the top ground, are current league champs, model club, wealthiest etc etc all those things that you constantly remind the rest of us of; and element of your travelling support regularily cause trouble....the best worst fans. Like it or not the scrutiny has more to do with the apparent regularity of incidents and the subsequent expectation that somthing is going to happen.
Dundalk have worked hard in improving security in an around Oriel Park at significant cost for away, home support, and local residents. Maybe some Bohs fans might like to comment but the security effort is excellent with the Mounted police unit and the Dog unit available. Fans are kept well apart and potential hotspots for the stone throwers are closely monitored. Recent Setanta cup games have highlighted the success of the efforts, so it can be done if the will is there. Its not perfect and there is always a chance some idiot will get through but thankfull more likely the exception than the rule. As for our own travelling support well lets hope that our scumbags are not given the oppertunity to embaress us due to appropriate security at aways grounds -Tallaght for example is excellent to travel to for this very reason
news to you it may be but the truth none the less there was even talk about a book on it .I did say it was 70s/80s .
SwanVsDalton
27/03/2011, 7:56 PM
If a home club cant guarantee the safety of the away teams players and coaching staff should they be allowed play home games at all?
It's this attitude that forced DCFC out of the Irish League in 1972. Height of the Troubles, mere months after Bloody Sunday - the difference between then and now should be patently obvious...
Not condoning stone-throwing, but some posters need to get some perspective.
osarusan
27/03/2011, 8:14 PM
I know it sounds like a cop-out, but outside the ground there is only so much a club can do. The only people who can police the streets are the actual police. Definitely, the clubs should be liaising with the police (and with the opposition fan clubs / security) to limit the potential trouble.
But if a moron with a rock decides to wait for the bus in a laneway-cum-escape route 300 metres up the road from the ground, not even a police escort will stop him throwing the rock (or find him afterwards).
Sam_Heggy
27/03/2011, 8:44 PM
I can't stand those people who hate football but still go along to games to deliberately cause trouble and ruin them for everybody else.
Bloody referees.
Reading this thread and shaking my head. Why oh why do Rovers always come on here and have a pop at other clubs fans. A sligo Fan came on here earlier and praised both sets of fans for their behaviour on the first night of the season. No incidents no arrests in or out of the ground. Cork fans Bohs fans also saying how well they get treated. For years Derry fans have been targeted in other parts of the country with buses being stoned. Probably the biggest place for stoning is at NewBuildings in Derry by Loyalists on returning from away matches while police were standing close by. That didnt stop youths throwing stones. Having the PSNI will only create further problems in the area. What happens away from the ground is not DCFC problem but the councils and the police.
sundance kid
28/03/2011, 9:41 AM
On May 13th, if the Derry Team bus gets hammered with bricks 100yds up the road from Tallaght Stadium, will the reaction be,
a) not rovers fault, police/public order problem, etc, or
b) typical rovers $cum, ban them all, games behind closed doors, etc?
Ezeikial
28/03/2011, 9:43 AM
On May 13th, if the Derry Team bus gets hammered with bricks 100yds up the road from Tallaght Stadium, will the reaction be,
a) not rovers fault, police/public order problem, etc, or
b) typical rovers $cum, ban them all, games behind closed doors, etc?
I don't know, but there is a good chance we might find out in May
On May 13th, if the Derry Team bus gets hammered with bricks 100yds up the road from Tallaght Stadium, will the reaction be,
a) not rovers fault, police/public order problem, etc, or
b) typical rovers $cum, ban them all, games behind closed doors, etc?
Depends who's posting.
L.T.F.C.
28/03/2011, 10:12 AM
We never had trouble outside the Brandywell since we were there. Always had the craic with Derry supporters...
Hmmm... common denominator?
marinobohs
28/03/2011, 10:55 AM
The more and more I think about this I think it shows the inherent bias among the LOI support, the FAI, the Gardai, the PSNI and the Illuminati towards Shams.
Also as an aside, Mypost did your flying saucer get bricked on the way out too?
........ really, really find it hard to believe these alledged incidents after the derry/shams match actually happened as it is a fact that there is no direct bus service between Tallaght and the Brandywell :rolleyes:
shantykelly
28/03/2011, 11:05 AM
On May 13th, if the Derry Team bus gets hammered with bricks 100yds up the road from Tallaght Stadium, will the reaction be,
a) not rovers fault, police/public order problem, etc, or
b) typical rovers $cum, ban them all, games behind closed doors, etc?
i would tend to blame the former, unless we manage to get the bus into the ground and park it across our goal mouth. but then, i tend to think about things and not jump in feet first.
Police won't go near it unless they REALLY have to because of the area it's in.
The PSNI's hands are tied in the North and it leads to very poor policing in certain situations.
shantykelly
28/03/2011, 11:28 AM
Edit.
and that's a very one sided and uninformed post that seems to be deliberately aimed at **** stirring.
It's not one sided. I'm not taking any sides.
Rightly or wrongly, the PSNI are kept on a tight leash as regards to what they can or cannot do. It's a fact. The reasons why that is the case are irrelevant in this debate.
The vast majority of the time it makes no difference but in situations where a visible police presence is required it can lead to issues.
marinobohs
28/03/2011, 12:21 PM
There may be nothing Derry City FC can do, but why should Rovers be expected to fulfill games there to be bricked time after time..
Presumably for the same reasons the rest of us are expected to fulfill games in a stadium that has seen rascist chanting, bottles thrown, pitch invasions, away players confronted on the pitch, attacks on the LUAS or are you suggesting SDCC Stadium should not be allowed host games either ?
What happens away from the ground is not DCFC problem but the councils and the police.
Well if Derry won't take responsibility and the PSNI won't take responsibility, who will and why should the games be played there if nobody does?
Nesta99
28/03/2011, 12:41 PM
Please dont turn this into a Shams v Bohs pi*sing match
dcfc_1928
28/03/2011, 12:45 PM
Have the incidents been reported to Derry City FC or the PSNI?
Edit: And if so, what has been the response?
Well if Derry won't take responsibility and the PSNI won't take responsibility, who will and why should the games be played there if nobody does?
Red Army
28/03/2011, 12:48 PM
Should Shamrock be held accountable for the attack by ten of their supporters on one teenage Rovers supporter on Church hill road a few weeks back? Or is that Sligo Rovers problem?
Red Army
28/03/2011, 12:52 PM
Anyone here old enough to remember the boot boys era?
redobit
28/03/2011, 1:07 PM
Anyone here old enough to remember the boot boys era?
Was too young but the first cousin has told me some 'interesting' stories.
Have the incidents been reported to Derry City FC or the PSNI?
Would it make a difference if they have?
alltogethernow
28/03/2011, 1:34 PM
How can Rovers not expect this type of reaction when their board do nothing to stop it?? They don't bother banning people, more interested in their €€€€€
Would it make a difference if they have?
YOu could then have legitimate complaints and a right to an answer, rather than just moaning on the internet
horton
28/03/2011, 2:43 PM
For whatever it's worth, the security alert close to the Brandywell that was mentioned earlier in the thread(it was the Courthouse in town if anyone knows the place) turned out to be a stolen car with 50kg of home made explosives. A nearby care home had to be evacuated. It's things like this in this day and age that makes me feel ashamed to be a Derry man. Part of me thinks things will just get worse but that's a story for another day. Anyways, back on topic debating if Rovers are scum/ how much security a football club should provide to visiting fans. . .
Rasputin
28/03/2011, 2:48 PM
Heres a tip for the Derry fans.
Just deny it ever happened, demand some sort of video or photographic evidence, if that evidence is provided and indeed does show a bus getting bricked then claim the evidence has been doctored.
Then go onto your own forum and start crying about how your fans ar being victimised and how opposition fans either fabricate all storys or just exagerate minor incidents.
Then organise a very bad boycott of foot.ie.
Tried and tested.
we shouldnt really be debating incidents that happen outside the ground. Or if we do, then we shouldnt be attempting to apportion blame on a club. If we want to blame certain fans it shouldnt be unless there is actual evidence (real or doctored) of fans being involved (eg Bohs fans in Derry).
The incidents we should debate are the ones (which are seldom in most cases) that occur inside the grounds. What happens outside the ground for the most part is public disorder that is the responsibility of the police force to police.
marinobohs
28/03/2011, 3:42 PM
For whatever it's worth, the security alert close to the Brandywell that was mentioned earlier in the thread(it was the Courthouse in town if anyone knows the place) turned out to be a stolen car with 50kg of home made explosives. A nearby care home had to be evacuated. It's things like this in this day and age that makes me feel ashamed to be a Derry man. Part of me thinks things will just get worse but that's a story for another day. Anyways, back on topic debating if Rovers are scum/ how much security a football club should provide to visiting fans. . .
A disgrace those dissidents alright, planting a bomb on monday when I specifically told them the shams were there on friday night :)
we shouldnt really be debating incidents that happen outside the ground. Or if we do, then we shouldnt be attempting to apportion blame on a club.
Agree, and unfortunately the situation with the cops in Derry makes it a kind of unique situation. However considering the lack of interest from people on here and elsewhere I assume the same lack of interest will be shown should any minor incident occur away from the stadium in Tallaght this season, instead of mass hysteria.
dcfc_1928
28/03/2011, 4:15 PM
Would you rather just continue a bitchfest on t'internet?
Tell me what happened and where it happened, and I will personally make sure that Derry City FC are informed.
Have you got details of what buses were damaged and where they were hired from?
Would it make a difference if they have?
Agree, and unfortunately the situation with the cops in Derry makes it a kind of unique situation. However considering the lack of interest from people on here and elsewhere I assume the same lack of interest will be shown should any minor incident occur away from the stadium in Tallaght this season, instead of mass hysteria.
there havent been too many incidents in tallaght though has there, hoopy? Not having a go but most of the stupid incidents mentioned here have happened in the stadium? The only thing i can think of is when the cops waded into the Bohs fans on the Luas for no apparent reason... im struggling to think of another major incident which occured outside the ground that was mentioned here...
passerrby
28/03/2011, 5:44 PM
For whatever it's worth, the security alert close to the Brandywell that was mentioned earlier in the thread(it was the Courthouse in town if anyone knows the place) turned out to be a stolen car with 50kg of home made explosives. A nearby care home had to be evacuated. It's things like this in this day and age that makes me feel ashamed to be a Derry man. Part of me thinks things will just get worse but that's a story for another day. Anyways, back on topic debating if Rovers are scum/ how much security a football club should provide to visiting fans. . .
where in hell do rovers fans get 50kg of home made explosives? i mean they must of used up all the supply of the crumlin and drimagh lads
there havent been too many incidents in tallaght though has there, ...
Put May 7th down in your diary and check this mb for the awful tales of woe from the previous night's away fans.
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