View Full Version : Weekend Latest 22-24 Oct
Charlie Darwin
24/10/2010, 3:27 AM
Joke of a league full stop, bloody joke watching that clip it says it so ****ed off as a genuine fan it's down heartening we are in major dept but Derry are off scot free (we cant pay the money for wages as we are trying to pay off mistakes from the past but they as they have NO depts as they are a NEW club bull****, bull****, bull**** same honors, same founded date in the programme) all a load off bull but all is well as Derry are up and that's all the FAI wanted either them or Cork up, no wonder fans are ****ed off with this league.
I don't really see the problem - the best team won the league. The club did all the right things: dissolved the previous institution, purged the board and applied to join a league that it was fully entitled to compete in.
What exactly is it that you want, for everybody involved with the club to commit ritual suicide along the road to Ballybofey?
dancinpants
24/10/2010, 6:36 AM
I don't really see the problem - the best team won the league. The club did all the right things: dissolved the previous institution, purged the board and applied to join a league that it was fully entitled to compete in.
What exactly is it that you want, for everybody involved with the club to commit ritual suicide along the road to Ballybofey?
The problem is that Harps fans creamed themselves at the notion of Derrys honours list being expunged - thereby helping get rid of the pain of being "Forever in our shadow". But here we are, after one season in the 1st we've achieved what Harps have in the last what? I don't even remember what year it is Harps won the 1st Division title . Bet you carrickharp didn't feel like this when the final whistle blew at the Brandy the other night....bet you he was basking in the notion of throwing a spanner in the works. Now that Mervue have undone Harps "good work" ? Well it's just a case of throwing the dummy from the pram.
WoodquayBoy
24/10/2010, 9:01 AM
IN response to the poster who asked about odds on 3 Galway clubs winning, I know United were 8/1 to beat Bohs and Salthill were 14/1 to beat Cork. Don't know what odds Mervue were, but would imagine it was in the same region - would have been some treble!! You NEARLY have to feel sorry for Devon, winning on the pitch for only the second time this season - and then Mervue go and pull off the shock of the First Division season to send them to the play off.
CSFShels
24/10/2010, 9:47 AM
Mervue were 10/1.
osarusan
24/10/2010, 10:20 AM
What a crazy weekend. This really is a league (both divisions) that nobody wants to win. Still, just like I confidently said about Bohs last week, Rovers will hardly throw it away now.
As long as Monaghan get a point, I think they're assured of a playoff spot. If Shels and Waterford draw, they need to lose by less than 4. Should be a cracker between Shels and Waterford in Tolka. Shels are probably the form team in the country (or Bray?) but Waterford only need a point.
Great stuff.
monutdfc
24/10/2010, 10:21 AM
It's like waking up with a dreadful hangover wishing last night never happened!
monutdfc
24/10/2010, 10:22 AM
As long as Monaghan don't lose by 4, I think they're assured of a playoff spot.
If Shels beat Waterford we need a point v Derry I think
osarusan
24/10/2010, 10:27 AM
If Shels beat Waterford we need a point v Derry I think
You're right of course, don't know how I missed that. Post edited.
MariborKev
24/10/2010, 10:45 AM
It's like waking up with a dreadful hangover wishing last night never happened!
I just woke up with said hangover, after one hell of a party in the Social Club last night! Roll on next week.
Nah Nah Nah Nah
24/10/2010, 11:49 AM
What a crazy weekend. This really is a league (both divisions) that nobody wants to win. Still, just like I confidently said about Bohs last week, Rovers will hardly throw it away now.
As long as Monaghan get a point, I think they're assured of a playoff spot. If Shels and Waterford draw, they need to lose by less than 4. Should be a cracker between Shels and Waterford in Tolka. Shels are probably the form team in the country (or Bray?) but Waterford only need a point.
Great stuff.
Bray hasn't won in 5 games! I'd say we're probably the form team in the country.
total hoofball
24/10/2010, 11:50 AM
Derry, here's how you won the league.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cVKHAhMFTE
Thats almost of reminiscent of Michael Turner's backpass in the Liverpool/Sunderland match last month. Turner, obvious to everyone in the ground, flicked the ball back so the free kick would be taken from the correct spot and Grimes was doing the same passing to 10 yards or so forward to where the initial foul took place. Grimes ****ed up by placing the ball with his hand which can be interpreted as taking the kick but like in the Liverpool match common sense was lacking from the ref because what defender gently passes a ball a staight to an attacker in that position, the cop on alarm bells should have been ringing for the ref when Gaffney himself turned back to ask what the hell was going on. I feel sorry Grimes.
GalwayRed
24/10/2010, 11:58 AM
Bray hasn't won in 5 games! I'd say we're probably the form team in the country.
I think its a pretty close call between ourselves and Sligo alright. We've won 9 of our last 11 league matches.
osarusan
24/10/2010, 12:03 PM
Bray hasn't won in 5 games! I'd say we're probably the form team in the country.
Fair enough, I was thinking more of the teams involved in playoffs.
total hoofball
24/10/2010, 12:03 PM
I don't really see the problem - the best team won the league. The club did all the right things: dissolved the previous institution, purged the board and applied to join a league that it was fully entitled to compete in.
What exactly is it that you want, for everybody involved with the club to commit ritual suicide along the road to Ballybofey?
The club cheated last season, shut down/re-open by buying name back screwing creditors in process (all with facilitated by FAI), parachuted into 1st Division when they should have started in the A League, their new debt free status means they had the highest budget in the division and inevitably won the league. Simply put, their 'punishment' was one season in the First Division with having their debts cleared. Any First division team like Harps, Waterford, Shels or whoever who are restrained by trying to pay off their debts should feel cheated, it wasn't a level playing ground.
GalwayRed
24/10/2010, 12:04 PM
Thats almost of reminiscent of Michael Turner's backpass in the Liverpool/Sunderland match last month. Turner, obvious to everyone in the ground, flicked the ball back so the free kick would be taken from the correct spot and Grimes was doing the same passing to 10 yards or so forward to where the initial foul took place. Grimes ****ed up by placing the ball with his hand which can be interpreted as taking the kick but like in the Liverpool match common sense was lacking from the ref because what defender gently passes a ball a staight to an attacker in that position, the cop on alarm bells should have been ringing for the ref when Gaffney himself turned back to ask what the hell was going on. I feel sorry Grimes.
Yeah I would agree with that. Gaffney is standing directly in the spot where the free kick should have been taken. If the ref were to go by the rules of the game the goal shouldn't have stood because if the ref is interpreting the free to have been taken, then its been taken from the wrong position. Common sense as well would tell you that Grimes wanted the free kick taken from the spot Gaffney was in.
Harsh on Grimes.
osarusan
24/10/2010, 12:07 PM
Common sense as well would tell you that Grimes wanted the free kick taken from the spot Gaffney was in.
Harsh on Grimes.
True, but common sense also tells you to never do what Grimes did just in case the ref interprets it like last night.
OneRedArmy
24/10/2010, 2:02 PM
The club cheated last season, shut down/re-open by buying name back screwing creditors in process (all with facilitated by FAI), parachuted into 1st Division when they should have started in the A League, their new debt free status means they had the highest budget in the division and inevitably won the league. Simply put, their 'punishment' was one season in the First Division with having their debts cleared. Any First division team like Harps, Waterford, Shels or whoever who are restrained by trying to pay off their debts should feel cheated, it wasn't a level playing ground.So you feel sorry for Wellvan's major creditors and think they should be repaid?
I'd suggest you and the bitter Harps clown have a look at the winding up papers.
Mad Moose
24/10/2010, 2:18 PM
I don't think there's a bitterness to James post. An anger yes. Anger toward a club that cheated. The same anger and disgust shown any club who cheat. Its so easy to point the finger at Wellvan. Well Derry City claim some great history on the administration of Wellvan. The night against Gretna (anybody remember them) and that night in Paris. Had Derry City gone on to win a league title or league and cup double you would have claimed and revelled in that history despite cheating your way to it. Your history against Harps is nothing to boast of. You were cheating the league, cheating football and its nothing to be proud of. I've been angry toward Harps on how they have run the club but if ever I knew the club cheated I'd walk away. I'd lose faith in my club forever. Well done Derry on your first honour as a club. We both have a first division title in our honours list. We have a FAI Cup Final win too. You have some catching up to do.
Spudulika
24/10/2010, 2:38 PM
While it was a shame to see Derry end up in a mess, and somehow unsettling to see them bounce right back up, it just goes to show how awful football is organised in Ireland and how desperate the FAI were to keep a team in Derry somehow. I don't blame anyone in Derry, and I am 100% sure that if they'd been told - it's A Championship for you lot - last season, they'd gladly have joined the league, won it and next year win the 1st Division, not because of big money, but because they are the closest thing to a club most of us will encounter. I understand how other clubs who suffered might **** a strange eye at them, however would any of us have the moral courage to stop our club getting a place in the league when the abyss was before us?
Charlie Darwin
24/10/2010, 4:14 PM
The club cheated last season, shut down/re-open by buying name back screwing creditors in process (all with facilitated by FAI), parachuted into 1st Division when they should have started in the A League, their new debt free status means they had the highest budget in the division and inevitably won the league. Simply put, their 'punishment' was one season in the First Division with having their debts cleared. Any First division team like Harps, Waterford, Shels or whoever who are restrained by trying to pay off their debts should feel cheated, it wasn't a level playing ground.
It's a new club and a new company. Why would they pay somebody else's debts? I know we are particularly eager to pay other people's debts in this country but they're a little smarter in the UK.
Sam_Heggy
24/10/2010, 4:18 PM
It's a new club and a new company. Why would they pay somebody else's debts? I know we are particularly eager to pay other people's debts in this country but they're a little smarter in the UK.
A new club with Founded in 1928 on their crest and listing previous Derry City's honours as their own.
Quite frankly the most shocking result of the season. Not a bottle to be had anywhere.
I think Bohs threw everyone's at Twigg
....
I think Bohs threw everyone's at Twigg
....
and i'm surprised you lot still had any left after chucking so many at Pats fans the other night...
Charlie Darwin
24/10/2010, 5:01 PM
A new club with Founded in 1928 on their crest and listing previous Derry City's honours as their own.
So refer them to the consumer ombudsman for false advertising. I'm sure he'll take it every bit as seriously as you do.
They were still the best team in the First Division.
WoodquayBoy
24/10/2010, 9:34 PM
True, but common sense also tells you to never do what Grimes did just in case the ref interprets it like last night.
Common sense also tells you this in the LOI, which means LOI refs, which means their grasp of the rules, as Osarusan says, is tenuous at best
WoodquayBoy
24/10/2010, 9:45 PM
Bray hasn't won in 5 games! I'd say we're probably the form team in the country.
Taking league games only: of the teams in, or likely to be in, the play-off, Bray have actually the joint worst run of recent results (last 5 games).
United and Bray have both only taken 3 points from their last 5 games. Of the First Division sides, Waterford and Shels have both taken 12 points from a possible 15, with Mons having taken 7 from a possible 15.
Only Sporting and Sligo (13 from possible 15) have better recent form.
Of the 22 league teams, Sligo are on the longest unbeaten run (7 games) and are, as you say, the form team
Where’s me anorak
bluemovie
25/10/2010, 6:57 PM
Yeah I would agree with that. Gaffney is standing directly in the spot where the free kick should have been taken. If the ref were to go by the rules of the game the goal shouldn't have stood because if the ref is interpreting the free to have been taken, then its been taken from the wrong position. Common sense as well would tell you that Grimes wanted the free kick taken from the spot Gaffney was in.
Harsh on Grimes.
Not sure whether that's an ad for Cillit Bang or a Tony Blair soundbite: "Harsh on Grimes. Harsh on the passes of Grimes".
mypost
25/10/2010, 11:56 PM
The club cheated last season, shut down/re-open by buying name back screwing creditors in process (all with facilitated by FAI), parachuted into 1st Division when they should have started in the A League, their new debt free status means they had the highest budget in the division and inevitably won the league. Simply put, their 'punishment' was one season in the First Division with having their debts cleared. Any First division team like Harps, Waterford, Shels or whoever who are restrained by trying to pay off their debts should feel cheated, it wasn't a level playing ground.
Derry have paid their penalty for what they did. Others still haven't.
If they "inevitably" were going to win the other division, they'd have done it weeks ago.
and i'm surprised you lot still had any left after chucking so many at Pats fans the other night...
We don't - we threw ours away last season at the linesman - do you not remember, some Sligo fan made a funny picture out of it and all.
Explains why Pats had to throw first for us 2,000 on the pitch to play ball.
Candystripe
26/10/2010, 1:26 AM
Taking league games only: Of the 22 league teams, Sligo are on the longest unbeaten run (7 games) and are, as you say, the form team
Where’s me anorak
You're not ready for that anorak yet WB. You should have said Sligo and Derry City are both on the longest unbeaten run (7 games) and are, as you say, the form teams :D
dancinpants
26/10/2010, 5:20 AM
You're not ready for that anorak yet WB. You should have said Sligo and Derry City are both on the longest unbeaten run (7 games) and are, as you say, the form teams :D
We may be unbeaten in 7 but both Shels and Waterford are above us in the "form table" as they amassed more points in the same period...thanks to the fact we've drawn 4 of those seven. Just sayin'.
marinobohs
26/10/2010, 9:40 AM
While it was a shame to see Derry end up in a mess, and somehow unsettling to see them bounce right back up, it just goes to show how awful football is organised in Ireland and how desperate the FAI were to keep a team in Derry somehow. I don't blame anyone in Derry, and I am 100% sure that if they'd been told - it's A Championship for you lot - last season, they'd gladly have joined the league, won it and next year win the 1st Division, not because of big money, but because they are the closest thing to a club most of us will encounter. I understand how other clubs who suffered might **** a strange eye at them, however would any of us have the moral courage to stop our club getting a place in the league when the abyss was before us?
Were derry not entitled to apply for first Division status ? If they were then I dont see the problem and if they were not then should the issue not haver been raised BEFORE the season ?
perhaps if they changed their gear to sackcloth and ashes it would appease some on here :rolleyes:
Charlie Darwin
26/10/2010, 9:54 AM
Candystripes you say? How dare they spend their money on sweets when they should be paying back creditors. For shame.
Were derry not entitled to apply for first Division status ? If they were then I dont see the problem and if they were not then should the issue not haver been raised BEFORE the season ?
perhaps if they changed their gear to sackcloth and ashes it would appease some on here :rolleyes:
Actually the deadline had already passed, so technically, no. And people at the time wondered whether the same opportunity had been extended to current A league clubs.
marinobohs
26/10/2010, 10:27 AM
Actually the deadline had already passed, so technically, no. And people at the time wondered whether the same opportunity had been extended to current A league clubs.
Fair enough, Mr A but why didn't clubs kick up at that time ? I cannot remember one single club objecting to FAI allowing Derry into the first Division. Bit late now for some to be moaning and does sound like sour grapes that they look likely to win the first Division.
BTW not a Derry City fan, just an outside observer.
WoodquayBoy
26/10/2010, 10:28 AM
You're not ready for that anorak yet WB. You should have said Sligo and Derry City are both on the longest unbeaten run (7 games) and are, as you say, the form teams :D
My bad
tippex
26/10/2010, 11:20 AM
Fair enough, Mr A but why didn't clubs kick up at that time ? I cannot remember one single club objecting to FAI allowing Derry into the first Division. Bit late now for some to be moaning and does sound like sour grapes that they look likely to win the first Division.
BTW not a Derry City fan, just an outside observer.
Most clubs wont kick up a fuss because they know that if they do that somewhere in the near future they may need a dig out in some shape or form and wont get it if they rock the boat.
OneRedArmy
26/10/2010, 12:21 PM
Just on the issue on Derry City paying back their creditors, I'm surprised so many on here seem to think the fans now in charge of the club should be forced to pay back the former directors who ran the club into the ground (as the connected creditors form a significant part of the debt). To me that seems completely wrongheaded. But clearly, I don't know what I'm talking about...
Although that said, I'm heartened that as an equity shareholder, the foot.ie brains trust thinks I should be bailed out too, after all, I'm a creditor, albeit on the lowest rung of the ladder ( Presumably I'll be bailing myself out, through purchasing new shares in the New company in order to pay myself as a Wellvan shareholder........).
Or do the budding insolvency practicioners actually not have the foggiest idea about what they're talking about?
Moral indignation only gets you so far but at some stage you have to comply with the law.
Charlie Darwin
26/10/2010, 12:33 PM
Just on the issue on Derry City paying back their creditors, I'm surprised so many on here seem to think the fans now in charge of the club should be forced to pay back the former directors who ran the club into the ground (as the connected creditors form a significant part of the debt). To me that seems completely wrongheaded. But clearly, I don't know what I'm talking about...
If people would take a minute to think about it they'd see how bizarre a position it is.
The creditors were always going to get burned. At least this way, the new holding company has been allowed to continue trading, and I'd wager with a lot of the same suppliers who were screwed by the former company's collapse. Not to mention the commerce that matchdays bring to the surrounding area every two weeks.
legendz
26/10/2010, 12:54 PM
Sligo have been great this season. They are only 6 points off the top. Had they had had a better start, they could've been challenging for the title. I hope they can keep their current squad together and build for next season.
Dodge
26/10/2010, 12:59 PM
Moral indignation only gets you so far but at some stage you have to comply with the law.
Aye, and using the law as a reason to act immoral will only get you so far in return
Don't care about Derry and their debts but if its fairly clear why some think (new) Derry should pay historical debt. That you're not obliged to isn't really the point.
Charlie Darwin
26/10/2010, 1:11 PM
Pay it from what though? The new club has practically the same revenues as the old club, lower if anything.
pineapple stu
26/10/2010, 1:15 PM
From those revenues. Same as other clubs are paying off their debts from their existing revenues.
(Not to take one side or the other in the debate, but that's how it'd be done).
Charlie Darwin
26/10/2010, 1:17 PM
The club folded because it couldn't pay its debts. There's no comparison between Derry City in 2009 and the currently solvent but indebted clubs in today's league.
OneRedArmy
26/10/2010, 1:19 PM
Aye, and using the law as a reason to act immoral will only get you so far in return
Don't care about Derry and their debts but if its fairly clear why some think (new) Derry should pay historical debt. That you're not obliged to isn't really the point.Immoral? We're in fairly good company with most of the rest of the league when it comes to immoral and unethical behaviour. The list of clubs that have failed to pay all debts in full and on time and shafted various creditors is a fairly long one.
My point was that legally we aren't able to selectively pay our debts, no matter how much people want us to.
And I'd argue that the directors who got us into the mess getting hit with the largest penalty is natural justice. As was said above, the reality is that most of the creditors (by volume and number) were fans.
For the record, I wasn't calling Derry immoral.
Just playing devils advocate.
It shold be remembered too that Derry weren't demoted due to debts, but rather because of the dual contracts.
pineapple stu
26/10/2010, 1:39 PM
The club folded because it couldn't pay its debts. There's no comparison between Derry City in 2009 and the currently solvent but indebted clubs in today's league.
Legally, there's no comparison, you're right. But you asked how the new club could pay off its debts, and I pointed out how. No different to any other club paying off their heavy debts.
We're purely talking about a "Wouldn't it be nice if..." scenario of course.
The big question here is: if licensing isn't going to prevent clubs from dumping their debts and then reappearing, what the hell is it for? Surely this is one of the central reasons for having it, yet it has proved completely ineffective in this regard. We hear a lot about 'moral hazard' these days and surely this is a case where it has to be taken seriously. Otherwise clubs with few assets would be foolish not to chase the dream in the knowledge that the consequences for meltdown are fleeting.
Charlie Darwin
26/10/2010, 1:59 PM
Legally, there's no comparison, you're right. But you asked how the new club could pay off its debts, and I pointed out how. No different to any other club paying off their heavy debts.
We're purely talking about a "Wouldn't it be nice if..." scenario of course.
I'm just not sure why you pointed it out, because it's a very practical question.
If a business can't pay its debts, them it's not a viable business and nobody, with the possible exception of Finn Harps, is going to benefit from Derry City flagellating itself and especially not the small businesses that depend on a successful Derry City to survive.
pineapple stu
26/10/2010, 2:19 PM
If you enter an agreement to repay all debts over, say, 10 years as part of a goodwill donation, it becomes a bit more manageable because you've taken out the time pressure of repaying, which is a major factor. You're under no legal obligation to repay - you don't technically owe the money - so you can't be sued for slow payment.
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