Are you glad that Roy Keane is back? and all about him being back [Archive] - Page 5

max power

13/04/2004, 11:50 PM

1. "Loser" has but one "o".

2. I've been watching Ireland since 1980-odd. So yes, I have. And I'd say Paul McGrath, for one, has given more for the cause.

3. I have a FA preliminary coaching badge, gained in 1989. So I'm actually qualified to talk football. Unlike your good self, I'm guessing.

4. As I've said elsewhere, "principles" appears before "prostitution" in the dictionary. And I've learned enough over the years in playing and coaching to know that the manner in which one takes part is always, always more important than whether the victory is won. As in life. Maybe when you're older, you'll find this out for yourself.

:mad: PP

coaching badge eh, there are a lot of coachs with those, does it make them any good at the job....no...

example, denis (spelled wrong i think before you pull me up on it ) wise, no qualifications and in the fa cup final, where are all the qualified coaches......

tony adams, badges, degrees etc......how is he doing in his first job....

we have a former el player and a former el manager in the top international set up, thats good enough for me......

to sum it up, coaching badge my arse....

end of late night rant, except to say i voted yes...

oh and paddy will you p1ss off with this grammer and spelling ****, i can't spell and never have been able to and these days grammer is not thaught ( spelled wrong again ) in irish schools so you don't know what you've never been shown, so knock it off..... :mad:

max power

14/04/2004, 12:01 AM

well now we have a former el manager and player at the top of the international set up and so it should be......

emotions are mixed at the mo, but i just can't help wondering what would be the reaction if he scored the winner against france in paris in sept.......we are fickle humans and it doesn't take much to sway our thoughts, look at who is in government for the proof.......

the 12 th man

14/04/2004, 7:02 AM

think he should have stayed away and voted no.but when he pulls back on the green jersey all bets are off and wouldnt dream of booing him.he has certainly lost a lot of credibility in most peoples eyes and would appear to have gone "cap in hand" to kerr.
my advice for what its worth:take him back into the team but the" hero" bit is over.from now on (when selected he is treated as an ordinary player) by both officials and the crowd at matches ,clap when he does anything good but leave out"KEANO KEANO".

SeanieBoy

14/04/2004, 7:25 AM

Plastic Paddy

14/04/2004, 7:34 AM

coaching badge eh, there are a lot of coachs with those, does it make them any good at the job....no...

example, denis (spelled wrong i think before you pull me up on it ) wise, no qualifications and in the fa cup final, where are all the qualified coaches......

tony adams, badges, degrees etc......how is he doing in his first job....

we have a former el player and a former el manager in the top international set up, thats good enough for me......

to sum it up, coaching badge my arse....

end of late night rant, except to say i voted yes...

Coaching badges may not a good manager make, but it qualifies me to talk about football. If you'd have read Carnstien's attack on me, then you'd have seen why I mentioned it. And it's not something I've referred to before here, as I've not felt the need until now.

oh and paddy will you p1ss off with this grammer and spelling ****, i can't spell and never have been able to and these days grammer is not thaught ( spelled wrong again ) in irish schools so you don't know what you've never been shown, so knock it off..... :mad:

Load of shoite. Have you ever had an enquiring mind, Max? Chances are you have on at least something, and you've gone off and found out about it all by yourself. Were you taught how to use the internet in minute detail, or did you learn this by trial and error? Exactly. You'd still be waiting if you were sitting around for someone to teach you...

In summary, I must ask - was my argument with you, Max? No. Then it's you that should take a hike. Unless you're Carnstien in disguise, that is... :rolleyes: Eejit.

;) PP

Plastic Paddy

14/04/2004, 7:38 AM

well now we have a former el manager and player at the top of the international set up and so it should be......

Rubbish. It should be the best candidates for each respective job, no matter where they or their roots hail from.

emotions are mixed at the mo, but i just can't help wondering what would be the reaction if he scored the winner against france in paris in sept.......we are fickle humans and it doesn't take much to sway our thoughts, look at who is in government for the proof.......

As if to prove it's not personal (see my response to you elsewhere), I agree with you fully on this. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as the saying has it.

:) PP

petef

14/04/2004, 8:31 AM

Just watched Primetime on the RTE website never seen anything as funny, "Dangerous," classic quote from the I'm wearing my best cardigan pundit. Dunphy was a bit of a hypocrite in stating that Byrne wrote Charltons biography, hes not exactly impartial himself. As ever with RTE it starts off sensible then descends into a farce, you gotta love Irish TV.

petef

14/04/2004, 8:41 AM

Followed by a Lovely Girls Competition.
Sure I've seen that cardigan before in a well known 70's show with two guys and a red car ;)

max power

14/04/2004, 8:59 AM

Duncan Gardner

14/04/2004, 9:04 AM

I'm disappointed. Tune into Ormeau Avenue for the sports news, as BT15's finest secure Premier League football for another season.

But all they're talking about is some reformed drunkard from Altrincham getting a part-time job :confused:

lopez

14/04/2004, 9:04 AM

Am I the only one who is 50/50 on this?? I always respected Keane, but after the Japan ****e I have lost alot of respect, at the same time we could do with a leader in the middle, so if you look at it from a point of strenghtening the team on the whole it has to be good, I think we benefit from the return more than him more so from the qualifying point of view....
Many of us are 49/51: That 2% entailing the foaming of our mouths. There are some things you'd love to be right about. In this case I hope I'm wrong: It will only end in tears of joy. :mad:

Duncan Gardner

14/04/2004, 9:11 AM

Did you see him do the FA Cup draw recently? Looked like Tony Soprano :)

Sorry, as you were. I'm neutral really. Look forward to reports back of Bydgoszcz banter...

Plastic Paddy

14/04/2004, 9:22 AM

paddy i have a problem with spelling and so have a lot of others so i think you were out of order bringing it up, its sad really that that was the only way you could move forward the debate....i have a driving licence, does that make me qualified to talk about f1 as well ???

Fine. Point taken. I lashed out at Carnstien on all fronts because s/he, as always, started to make it personal. However inadvertently, I crossed a line and for that I apologise.

:) PP

max power

14/04/2004, 9:30 AM

no bother paddy, only negative thing about roy is that he's fan of a certain scotish team

NeilMcD

14/04/2004, 9:35 AM

I supported the team when mick mc carthy even though i did not agree wth his treatment of paul mc grath and denis irwin or his tactics. I supported the team through tick and thin regardless of what player was playing etc. I will be supporting the team with or without Roy keane. But with Roy keane back in the team we are more likely to be more successful which is the object of football.

Lets list who are in favour of this

Brian Kerr
Fran Rooney
Kevin Moran
Ray Houghton
Mark Lawrenson
Frank Stapleton
Damien Duff
Kenny Cunningham
Robbie Keane,
John O Shea
Liam Miller
Jason Mc Ateer
Niall Quinn

I cant list one person who is involved in irish football at any sort of high level that is against this idea. I think the list above is a good cross section of irish past and present. The only people who seem to be against it are people who have the idea of irish nationality which is , if i dont agree with it its not irish. Regardless of what you think of Roy Keane you should give Brian Kerr the full backing for welcoming him back and letting him into the squad. If he can do it why can you. Or are you all more informed than him on Irish football.

max power

14/04/2004, 9:47 AM

one of the mopst sensible posts yet on this topic

Plastic Paddy

14/04/2004, 9:50 AM

no bother paddy, only negative thing about roy is that he's fan of a certain scotish team

easy now... ;)

:D PP

Ozymandias

14/04/2004, 9:51 AM

Incidentally,the ONLY person to be booed(apart from a few people moaning @ Bertie's "jokes"),@ the opening of last year's Special Olympics......was a certain R.M.K............................................. ........... :p
As one unKind individual suggested.....he should have been a participant,with his lack of scruples.However,this would have been unkind to the other handicapped competitors....

DavrosI was there that day ...I don't remember him being booed.....can't have been to many...I heard alot of cheering to be honest...and thats not selective hearing ..I just didn't hear it...i did hear the Bertie Boos though....I don't like bertie but was disgusted by it

NeilMcD

14/04/2004, 10:05 AM

Drinking Indcidents ok let me deal with that ponit, Paul Mc Grath missed matches due to alchol abuse, yet people love him. I am one of those that think he is great but you can have a go at keane for drinking and support Mc Grath or basically any player that played for Ireland in the last 25 years they all liked a drink and some had or have problems with it, None of our business really and some like Paul Mc Grath have a disease so who are we to judge on that.

"he walked out on the team". Well i do not agree with his initial threat to going home but in the cold light of day he did say he woudl stay. This showed i suppose that he was prepared to put his country before himself as he regretted probably threatening to go home. HOwever Mick Mc Carthy was not happy at that and decided to call a meeting where he basically riled keane into reacting. What person woudl not react to be been told you let your country down and you faked injury. i.e. Iran game, even though keane, mc carthy and ferguson had agreed that due to keanes injury he woudl not travel to iran if the result was pretty safe. If mc carthy had reservations about that why did he not say it then rather than in a heated row which he instigated.

Thirdly "he faked injury". Well i dont remember keane ever faking injury for competitive matches and i dont believe he has ever faked injury for ireland. I think he may have decided some times that it was not worth the risk to go over for a friendly match as he may aggravated his knee etc. Apoligies for the rot in hell remark it was not serious, but dont worry i can be level headed and put forward logical arguments. And thanks for the compliment from max there too.

Pogsly

14/04/2004, 10:05 AM

Keane is 33. In 2006 he will be 35 and probably passing the time at Celtic. How many 35 year olds have made a great impact in World Cups?

Roger Milla (41 in Italia 90 )

NeilMcD

14/04/2004, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by davros
Incidentally,the ONLY person to be booed(apart from a few people moaning @ Bertie's "jokes"),@ the opening of last year's Special Olympics......was a certain R.M.K............................................. ...........
As one unKind individual suggested.....he should have been a participant,with his lack of scruples.However,this would have been unkind to the other handicapped competitors....

Conor 74 i dont see you having a go at nonsensical remarks like this. YOu should not just have a go at pro-keane remarks and leave the anti keane ones go with out comment. If you main argument is for sensible debate it shoudl be across the board. And the above quote is probably one of the most offensive one could issue on this debate which after all is only about football and is not life and death here.

petef

14/04/2004, 10:19 AM

We should all just watch Primetime again and laugh.

tiktok

14/04/2004, 10:25 AM

I'll tell ya what- come up with a well thought out argument as to:
1. why I should be glad Roy Keane is back.
2. why he shouldn't have to apologise.
3. why he was right to do what he did and all the other players were wrong

I'll try and do as sensible a pro-keane post as possible.

1. He will strengthen the squad. He's one of the few players we have that will handle a French midfield to start with, he's played against the likes of Zidane more than any other irish player and has been on winning teams against them. The reason Man Utd fans come out in favour is bias, but also week in week out, they see how he helps to progress the younger players around him, players like Liam Miller and Andy Reid have already comeout in favour of his return, they know he'll help them along to become better. Like it or not, he never, ever gave less than his all while wearing an Irish shirt.

2. I think it would probably help 'the healing' if he issued a statement saying he regretted the Saipan affair, but has McCarthy apologised for his part in it? (and they were both in it, as I've said before i still wish some senior member of the squad had the balls to knock there heads together and tell them to cop on and save it for four weeks).
As for the injury 'faking' that brendy_eire has been hinting at, he's nothing to apologise for. He still doesn't play two games in a week for united. His hip was and is dodgy, but he's come through it to a degree and has recovered a bit of form, He's not the player he was before the WC, but he's still the best CM who we have available.

3. This I can't convince you on. Everybody has their own idea where the right and wrong lies in this argument. There are merits to both sides of the argument, McCarthy shouldn't have confronted him in front of the team, bad man-management, Keane shouldn't have reacted the way he did, both should have been big enough to put it aside for four weeks.

In the end, if Keane was coming back from a long lay-off through injury, I think we'd all be admitting that he'd be a positive addition to the squad. It's personal feelings that prevent people from recognising that it's good news for our chances of qualifying for the 2006WC.

I'd be totally against taking the captaincy from Cunningham though.

tiktok

14/04/2004, 10:28 AM

Yes. We'll be a stronger team with him present.

Pogsly

14/04/2004, 10:35 AM

I'm not calling for booing of the Irish team, just Roy Keane. I don't want him representing me or my country. By booing we can show that he doesn't represent us, our country or what we stand for.
Why can't he apologise? He lied in order to avoid playing. Now, for some reason, he wants to play again, and he should say sorry for lying to us.

My only consolation is that he won't be playing beyond 2006.

You're full of sh*it . I can only presume that you have seen all of RMK's medical files or physio reports since you are so sure that he lied to the nation of Ireland about the state of his injuries . Sure maybe he just missed soem of Utd's matches for the craic like. G*bsh*t .

lopez

14/04/2004, 10:49 AM

We should all just watch Primetime again and laugh.
Yeah! I'm in love with that babe that had the misfortune to babysit those three eejits. 'Dangerous...civil war...referendum...(punches palm).' :D

Footie_Fan

14/04/2004, 10:51 AM

Your main point in Roy's favour being that you thought Peter Byrne's clothes were too dark!

That wasn't a point about Roy at all I was just pointing out the comedy that was primetime.

Footie_Fan

14/04/2004, 10:53 AM

Lets list who are in favour of this

Brian Kerr
Fran Rooney
Kevin Moran
Ray Houghton
Mark Lawrenson
Frank Stapleton
Damien Duff
Kenny Cunningham
Robbie Keane,
John O Shea
Liam Miller
Jason Mc Ateer
Niall Quinn

You can add
Graham Kavanagh
Chris Hughton

They were both on Newstalk supporting the decision.

dahamsta

14/04/2004, 10:54 AM

Pogsly banned and IP blocked. NeilMcD and Conor74, drop the "rubbish" and "nonsensical" remarks. If ye can't debate politely either take it to PM or p�ss off somewhere else.

adam

NeilMcD

14/04/2004, 10:59 AM

well I though conor was debating politely to be fair to him, i just pointed out that if he is calling for good polite articulate debate from pro keane he should be calling for the same for pro keane. BUt to be fair to him he is not said anything offensive.

dahamsta

14/04/2004, 11:00 AM

Conor, if you don't like the rules, take yourself off somewhere else. I'm tired of your fight teh poweh routine.

adam

tiktok

14/04/2004, 11:05 AM

As for faking, remember his not travelling to Tehran. Remember playing 90 minutes against Bayern the following Tuesday for his club? Remember his admission that he had an agreement with McCarthy not to play (and shame on McCarthy for agreeing to the scam)? Come on, you can put two and two together surely...

I also remember being delighted that he was available for the first game after having been out injured for the previous four weeks and not playing for United. He wasn't faking Conor, he came back early, Fergie didn't want him to play in either International game and could legitimately have refused to release him, hence the deal that was struck.

The thing is, no-one in the country expressed any anger at this (or even doubted the injury) until after McCarthy accused him of faking (even though he was well aware of the real story) and that's what set Roy off on his rant.

One Brian Kerr

14/04/2004, 11:06 AM

Fergie seems to think Keano will only be playing in the big competative games.
I can't see Keane going to Poland this month with Man U still in the FA Cup but i reckon he'll play against Romania at LR next month.

http://www.teamtalk.com/teamtalk/News/Story_Page/0,7760,809420,00.html

tiktok

14/04/2004, 11:12 AM

....99% of the people on here are reasonable.......

I'll do a realistic Anti-Keane one.....He's an arrogant,dirty,petulant,lying,selfish,egotistical w*nker...who behaves like a spoilt brat & just wants to sell a few more books,with that pr*ck,Grumpy!Plus he has communication skills,which make Paisley look like a diplomat! :mad:

that leaves you in the 1% so D, yeah? ;) :D

NeilMcD

14/04/2004, 11:12 AM

Yeah to be fair to conor he has posted sensible comments and my only gripe with him was his consistency to carry over to the pro keane comments. I think conor you should come out and say more that "come on davros" as his comments were totally non-sensical. LIke which ireland supporters are only here for the craic and the drink. There have been some over the top posts and I think the one about handicapped people has to be the most offensive and i think that should be dealt with first and foremost rather than going for conor who is contribuing to the debate with positive comments.

tiktok

14/04/2004, 11:24 AM

...What annoyed him was not McCarthy's admission that Keane did not play by arrangement. What annoyed Keane was that McCarthy had publicly declared this in front of the squad...

Come off it Conor, That's not an answer to anything I wrote. As I said, he was on his way back from injury, we all knew there was an arrangement for the Iran game, but your suggestion that the squad didn't is smoke and mirrors. He reacted to being called a faker when he wasn't one, not because he was 'outed'.

Wonder if they were the same ones that told him he couldn't play international football again...

When Keane came back from his last operation, I didn't think he'd make it to the end of the season (and I watch United every game I can, so I'm going to pull rank here and say that I'm in a better position to comment on that period of time than you are). He was wrecked, as Johnny Giles said when all this was going on, he overtrained on his way back and did more damage to himself. it's only since last summer he's been coming good again.

dahamsta

14/04/2004, 11:25 AM

Obviously people don't understand the concepts of "on-topic" and "polite". Try again.

Conor, it's not the first time as you're only too aware. Like I said, if you don't like the rules take yourself off somewhere else.

adam

Beavis

14/04/2004, 11:31 AM

Many of us are 49/51

I probably fit into that meself.I'm okay with it I guess as long as the team the rest of the team are fine about it.
Just not looking forward to the fawning reception he's due to get at Landsdowne.He'll be championed as a hero while those who have stayed more loyal must carry on about there business in the shadow of Roy's limelight.....

Lionel Ritchie

14/04/2004, 11:43 AM

I'm one of those who believes Roy walked when it was within his power to stay and I'll always have a difficulty with him for that, BUT I think his return was inevitable and if Brian's happy to have him back and if Brians willing to forget that Keane wronged him 14 months ago before the Scotland game then who am I to not let it go.

I think we the supporters need this as a healing thing too as it's split us wide open. I've seen supporters here arguing that he shouldn't be back and he should be booed or whatever. Forget it lads. Bygones ARE bygones.
Roy's back. Let's just get on with supporting the team.

lopez

14/04/2004, 11:45 AM

I probably fit into that meself.I'm okay with it I guess as long as the team the rest of the team are fine about it.
Just not looking forward to the fawning reception he's due to get at Landsdowne.He'll be championed as a hero while those who have stayed more loyal must carry on about there business in the shadow of Roy's limelight.....
Yet another RK thread has been locked and no doubt this one will go the same way, so I'll try to keep my composure. Judas...or perhaps a more apt biblical description (for now at least) the prodigal son...is not a friend of mine, is not planning to marry any of my daughters and I wish to have no contact with him on a personal level, and neither would I think does he. He's a footballer. Nothing else. And whatever he's done in the past at least he's not done what either OJ Simpson (in the interests of libel) was acused of or Gary Glitter did - neither I must add were previously my heroes. Call it fickle, but if he comes back and puts in the performances that certain posters believe are inevitable, he'll get my support, but I too am not going to give him a hero's welcome. Booing him - a favourite pastime amongst Irish supporters lately - will just undermine our efforts to ensure a trip to Germany. I hope for restraint on both sides whenever he feels bothered to turn out for his country again.

�anna

14/04/2004, 11:49 AM

oh yeah. just meant to say. can we leave the insults and the debate about what he did or didn't do for the other thread please. we can just vote and look at the results here, and debate our opinions there.

thanks :)
GLAD TO SEE EVERYONE LISTENED :rolleyes:

carnstien

14/04/2004, 12:54 PM

And I've learned enough over the years in playing and coaching to know that the manner in which one takes part is always, always more important than whether the victory is won.
:mad: PP
I could not disagree with this attitude more.

Football is about winning, end of story, anybody who is in any way competitive knows this. This is the problem with the Irish (and the English for that matter) . We are always happy to have competed upstandingly and given our all. We don't care about actually achieving anything. This is the attitude that resulted in 99.9% of Irish people being happy with our performance in the World Cup, a World Cup that was there for the taking.

Roy Keane would not have been happy with that performance, I was not happy with it, we could have gone all the way but the Irish mentallity was what held us back and this mentallity has resulted in us always being a nation that is always content to be second best.

I'll say it again, Keane is a winner and he will once again transform the Irish squad into a squad of winners like he did in the World Cup qualifiers.

De Town

14/04/2004, 1:16 PM

Definately. The man is a F**kin legend!!!!!

Plastic Paddy

14/04/2004, 1:19 PM

I could not disagree with this attitude more.

Football is about winning, end of story, anybody who is in any way competitive knows this. This is the problem with the Irish (and the English for that matter) . We are always happy to have competed upstandingly and given our all. We don't care about actually achieving anything. This is the attitude that resulted in 99.9% of Irish people being happy with our performance in the World Cup, a World Cup that was there for the taking.

Roy Keane would not have been happy with that performance, I was not happy with it, we could have gone all the way but the Irish mentallity was what held us back and this mentallity has resulted in us always being a nation that is always content to be second best.

I'll say it again, Keane is a winner and he will once again transform the Irish squad into a squad of winners like he did in the World Cup qualifiers.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I've seen - on more than one occasion - people attacked and in one case nearly lose their life for the "winning" mentality you so describe. To paraphrase dahamsta, football is only a game. It's well worth remembering that sometimes.

:) PP

NeilMcD

14/04/2004, 1:26 PM

I dont think we are going to change anybodys attitude here and i dont want to. But please tell me nobody is going to boo or diong anything daft that may hinder our chances in the matches coming up and our chances of qualifying. Like him or hate him our chances of winning football matches have improved. Now is the time to back the team. YOu dont have to cheer keano or anything like that but at the same time please do not boo him or any Irish player or even players on the other team. There is no place for that in football. We should all take a step back from this debate and not get so hot headed about it. It is football which we all love and enjoy. Now someobyd that lots of people either love or hate is back playing for us. I think the sensible reaction is to support your team through thick and thin. In the same way pro Keane people kept on supporting Ireland after he went i think anti keane people should support ireland still. I am not asking you to be happy about it, but talk of booing or boycotts etc should be put to the back of you mind and get on with the job of supporting the team

neil