Fenlon for Dundee United?

[Longfordian]

That old adage about verbal agreements not being worth the paper they're written on springs to mind. Precedent suggests Fenlon will be able to go for nothing if he pushes it. A likely compromise would seem to be him writing off what he's owed and Dundee Utd paying it to him.

[LeixlipRed]

I can't help but laugh at this. This league truly is a complete shambles.

[de bowez]

That old adage about verbal agreements not being worth the paper they're written on springs to mind. Precedent suggests Fenlon will be able to go for nothing if he pushes it. A likely compromise would seem to be him writing off what he's owed and Dundee Utd paying it to him.

Except of course when Albion obtain a verbal agreement to buy part of the ground...

[De Town]

I can't help but laugh at this. This league truly is a complete shambles.

You're only realizing that now? :eek:

[Longfordian]

Except of course when Albion obtain a verbal agreement to buy part of the ground...

I've a feeling the signficant part of that deal was the €1m or so Albion handed over. In a somewhat similar situation Stephen Paisley was allowed leave us for nothing and go to Pats. We had a "verbal agreement" with him regarding a schedule of payments of money owed too. It went to a tribunal, he said he didn't really agree to anything just didn't want to make waves so didn't protest. He won his case. You're in big trouble in terms of protecting your rights if you don't pay what's owed when it's owed or at least get an agreement in writing.

[irishultra]

bye bye. seriously i dont care about him. get someone good in. what a joke it is though that it is deemed a step up for the title winning manager of a club to be going to some no hoper club in a country the same size as the one he just left. irish football is a joke.

[Hairy Bowsie]

bye bye. seriously i dont care about him. get someone good in. what a joke it is though that it is deemed a step up for the title winning manager of a club to be going to some no hoper club in a country the same size as the one he just left. irish football is a joke.

Ha ha, throwing your rattle out of the pram :D What a joker this guy is :D

[Mr A]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0107/1224261820790.html

This is disputed by Bohemians officials who maintain verbal agreements had been reached with regard to a schedule for any payments due.

Isn't this a breach of licensing if true? Monies owed either had to be paid or a written agreement in place so time ago according to my understanding.

[LeixlipRed]

You're only realizing that now? :eek:

No, I just keeping getting bangs on the head and forgetting.

[VinnyDCFC]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee_utd/8440296.stm



08:45 GMT, Thursday, 7 January 2010


Dundee United could land Bohemians manager Pat Fenlon without paying compensation as he is owed money by the Dublin club.
Fenlon has agreed a contract in principle with the Scottish Premier League club after talks on Wednesday.

And he has told the League of Ireland club he is taking the job.

Bohemians are demanding compensation of around £250,000 for the 40-year-old, but he could be in the United dugout on Saturday and cost them nothing.


Fenlon, previously a Celtic scout in Ireland, might forego money due him by the Dublin club to cover any potential fee for compensation.

[pineapple stu]

Except of course when Albion obtain a verbal agreement to buy part of the ground...
I think that was covered by estoppel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel) - in other words, there was no written agreement, but Bohs and Albion both acted in accordance with one (i.e. Albion paid money and Bohs accepted it).

Does Bohs' transfer embargo mean they can't sign any manager currently employed? Doolin seems the obvious replacement candidate unless they promote from within.

[HarpoJoyce]

Isn't this a breach of licensing if true? Monies owed either had to be paid or a written agreement in place so time ago according to my understanding.

Where did you get written agreement from?


It may in his contract that if another club that is over €5m in reported debt wishes to speak with him they can. (Dundee United £8m iin reported debt).

There's alot of Tennis Reportage going on at the moment, because both clubs havn't talked with each other. The Malone chap in The Irish Times has an accurate view on the situation.

Further note on Contracts. Performance is a big part of that and if it's shown every party was doing the job then it's not easy to show any breach.

[marinobohs]

Did those wage figures for Bohs cover only footballing wages, or certain players rather passive 'additional' roles for the club, such as barmen, groundskeepers, youth trainers, window cleaners, fluffers etc....?

Official FAI figures V internet gossip ? guess I will stick with the official figures this time :D

[marinobohs]

Isn't this a breach of licensing if true? Monies owed either had to be paid or a written agreement in place so time ago according to my understanding.

Not sure about the specifics of the Licencing requirements but I do know that verbal contracts have standing in Irish law (although not in British law which is what leads to confusion).
Bohs restructuring bonus payments (ifc that occurred) would presumably be the same as other clubs "reviewing" contracts and as long as it was done by agreement then should not be a problem.

On a seperate note (but mentioned in thread) the High Court did not find that there was a contract between Bohs and Albion but that Albion had a "reasonable expectation that one would be completed".

[HarpoJoyce]

Get a grip. Comical Gerry span him a line and he repeated it word for word. Nutsy has met Dundee United twice now and has a three year contract in his hand.

Its been reported before that Fenlon was owed money. He is free to talk to anyone, which is exactly what he has been doing for months now. Bohs are of course right to try and get some compo, but its increasingly obvious that he can, and will, walk for free.

Once a hoop etc. :D

Settle down, you'll need to explain all your points fully.

[HarpoJoyce]

Both clubs clearly have spoken to each other. Dundee Utd requested and got permission to talk to Fenlon. Bohs are haggling over compensation. So you are simply wrong there.

We know Fenlon met with Dundee United at least once and there is a disputed earlier meeting. Malone's report seems to be Bohs using the press to try and dampen talk of an already done deal. He is gone. 3 years. No compo.

Now, don't you feel better about settling down? Take another sip of blackcurrant tea. You have discarded the emotive, abusive labels. That's real progress.

My earlier post regarded the talk about a financial settlement. You have now clarified that 'Fenlon free to talk to anyone' you meant Bohemian FC gave Dundee Utd. to talk with Pat Fenlon. It's good you recognise that.

Your point about IT and Emmet Malone shows itself as just your own bias, once you've explained yourself I understand it as your own opinion.

The tennis reportage will continue....... take another sip now.

[Dodge]

Official FAI figures V internet gossip ? guess I will stick with the official figures this time :D

Yep, they've proved to be correct every time so far...

[Redie]

I can't help but laugh at this. This league truly is a complete shambles.

I cannot for the life of me see how these events reflect in any way on the League of Ireland.:confused:

[pól-dcfc]

Not sure about the specifics of the Licencing requirements but I do know that verbal contracts have standing in Irish law (although not in British law which is what leads to confusion)

Wrong. Verbal contracts have an identical standing to written contracts in British law. A contract is a contract, provided you can prove that it existed in the first place, or has been performed.

The issue here is that the licensing board specify a written agreement - utterly nothing to do with the standing of verbal contractual arrangements.

[marinobohs]

bye bye. seriously i dont care about him. get someone good in. what a joke it is though that it is deemed a step up for the title winning manager of a club to be going to some no hoper club in a country the same size as the one he just left. irish football is a joke.

Sorry, but thats utter rubbish irishultra - back to back leagues and an FAI and EA sports Cup for bonus. Nutseys ability to attract the best players to Dalymount is also a loss.
Huge act to follow.

[garyderry]

Sorry, but thats utter rubbish irishultra - back to back leagues and an FAI and EA sports Cup for bonus. Nutseys ability to attract the best players to Dalymount is also a loss.
Huge act to follow.

No the money he is being allowed to throw at players (not saying our stupoid board didnt let him do the same) is why he attracts players to dalymount.

[Schumi]

Does Bohs' transfer embargo mean they can't sign any manager currently employed? Doolin seems the obvious replacement candidate unless they promote from within.
Hasn't stopped Cork!

[Longfordian]

Rules and regulations are for losers, not for people like Tom Coughlan.

[Mr A]

Sounds like the Fenlon move is a done deal from reading the Bohs forum.

Betting for successor:

Damien Richardson 7/2
Paul Doolin 4/1
Paul Cook 5/1
Alan Matthews 6/1
Tony O'Connor 8/1
Stephen Kenny 9/1
Owen Heary 10/1
Liam Buckley 14/1
Liam O'Brien 16/1
Michael O'Neill 16/1
John Aldridge 16/1
Dave Henderson 16/1
Pat Dolan 20/1
Jim Gannon 20/1
Stephen Henderson 25/1
Kevin Hunt 25/1
Lawrie Sanchez 25/1
Gareth Cronin 25/1
Brian Kerr 25/1
Eddie Gormley 33/1
Kenny Cunningham 33/1
Joe Kinnear 33/1
Pat Scully 33/1
Jeff Kenna 40/1
David Jeffrey 40/1
John McDonnell 40/1
Roddy Collins 40/1
Sean Connor 50/1
Steve Staunton 66/1

[passerrby]

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/acrossthewater/news.asp?n=37846

Eleven a side are reporting exactly what I said.... lol

in future i wil accept the word of BYCTWD he obviuosly has an in somewhere

[Sam_Heggy]

Sounds like the Fenlon move is a done deal from reading the Bohs forum.

Betting for successor:

Damien Richardson 7/2
Paul Doolin 4/1
Paul Cook 5/1
Alan Matthews 6/1
Tony O'Connor 8/1
Stephen Kenny 9/1
Owen Heary 10/1
Liam Buckley 14/1
Liam O'Brien 16/1
Michael O'Neill 16/1
John Aldridge 16/1
Dave Henderson 16/1
Pat Dolan 20/1
Jim Gannon 20/1
Stephen Henderson 25/1
Kevin Hunt 25/1
Lawrie Sanchez 25/1
Gareth Cronin 25/1
Brian Kerr 25/1
Eddie Gormley 33/1
Kenny Cunningham 33/1
Joe Kinnear 33/1
Pat Scully 33/1
Jeff Kenna 40/1
David Jeffrey 40/1
John McDonnell 40/1
Roddy Collins 40/1
Sean Connor 50/1
Steve Staunton 66/1

No Paul Hegarty? :eek:

Seriously, have to laugh at Roddy sitting at 40/1, I'm sure he has been trying to make contract at Dayler already.

[irishultra]

Give it to Richardson. Love him.

[Hibs4Ever]

Dundee Utd fans reckon compo of 50,000 GBP has been agreed

[LeixlipRed]

I cannot for the life of me see how these events reflect in any way on the League of Ireland.:confused:

Then you should think a little bit harder about it. I'll give you hints. Bohemians, not paying manager, breach of contract, no compensation due, laughing stock. Any closer to it?

[Redie]

Then you should think a little bit harder about it. I'll give you hints. Bohemians, not paying manager, breach of contract, no compensation due, laughing stock. Any closer to it?

NO!!!

[hoopy]

Then you should think a little bit harder about it. I'll give you hints. Bohemians, not paying manager, breach of contract, no compensation due, laughing stock. Any closer to it?

Bohs fans on here and elsewhere deserve what they get for continually supporting Conway. He's an even bigger liar that Maguire was with us. He uses his Bohs journo buddies to let Bohs fans hear what he wants him to hear and they continually believe him. How many members has he told that their projected budget for next season has already been rejected by the FAI? No doubt one of his lackies will do a story in the coming days that 'everything is fine'. Gerry Conway = comedy gold.

[Jicked]

congrats on being so well connected Jicked. I was just presenting what i thought was a possibility based on what i know. You have heard or read different (though its all really rumour at the end of the day). I have no doubt there is a possibility that Bohs have screwed up. It wouldnt be the first time. Most reasonable Bohs fans would acknowledge that. We'll see.

i do it for a living and, trust me, if i went in to a meeting with figures that were "achievable and realistic" i'd be laughed out of the room and fired afterwards.

This was just posted on the rovers messageboard by that same seemingly well connected poster (who has been right on everything so far)

"pat fenlon has agreed to waive all money owed to him by bohs,bohs get no compo as they owe fenlon money so he goes for free,thats what they get for been greedy,fenlon got impatient and told dundee utd he was owed money and he could go for free."

Seems like if Bohs hadn't have been so amateur with their ridiculous attempts at negotiating a settlement way above what would have been possible than they might have gotten some cash out of the deal :o If true then it's yet another huge **** up by Bohs/Conway, when are Bohs fans going to stop believing anything this man says?

[Longfordian]

Gerry sticking to his guns.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0107/bohemians.html

[GGAJD]

How's it goin, first post. Just wondering if fenlon has the job and it looks like he has, are there many players out of contract waiting for the embargo to be lifted to re-sign that he could snap up on a free? I know the likes of Powell is under contract but are Shelley, Brennan, Oman and Keegan and the like? I'd say Carey could be his first signing

[hoopy]

when are Bohs fans going to stop believing anything this man says?

It must be galling for Bohs fans to realise that Rovers fans know more about what's going on in their club than they do. Terrible isn't it :D

[shep]

was talking to a mate who works as a trader for paddy power and he was saying a few people have lumped on Jason Mc Ateer for Bohs job.Would be a funny one!!!!

[Dodge]

Then you should think a little bit harder about it. I'll give you hints. Bohemians, not paying manager, breach of contract, no compensation due, laughing stock. Any closer to it?

Substitute Bohs for Fenlon's previously managed teams and it shows the league hasn't changed much

[Hairy Bowsie]

Derry.

[fionnsci]

deemed a step up for the title winning manager of a club to be going to some no hoper club in a country the same size as the one he just left.

You're right....Now if it was "some no hoper club" in China then that would be grand. I forgot that football was all about population.

[Sam_Heggy]

was talking to a mate who works as a trader for paddy power and he was saying a few people have lumped on Jason Mc Ateer for Bohs job.Would be a funny one!!!!

He was in Ireland recently doing his UEFA B coaching.
Stranger things have happened and, after the balls he and Barnes made of the Tranmere job, Im sure his options in Engerland will be limited.

[Acornvilla]

He was in Ireland recently doing his UEFA B coaching.
Stranger things have happened and, after the balls he and Barnes made of the Tranmere job, Im sure his options in Engerland will be limited.
but he needs a uefa A lisence to get the job?

[Longfordian]

True. He may even need to have the Pro Licence or at least have applied to take a course to do it.

[Sam_Heggy]

but he needs a uefa A lisence to get the job?

James Gallagher doesn't have the A Licence as of yet, but, if the manager is going through the courses and applying for the A course then he is grand. Sure he needed it for Engerland too.

[Longfordian]

If you're registered on a course for the A Licence you can manage in the First Division this season I think, not sure if there's stricter requirements for the Premier Division but I think there may be. One of the main reasons we parted company with Gareth Cronin was down to his having to do the A Licence course and who would be responsible for the fees and expenses incurred, including paying the wages he would have got from his day job whilst he took the time off apparently.

[Battery Rover]

True. He may even need to have the Pro Licence or at least have applied to take a course to do it.


Correct pro license needed for Premier

[Northern Light]

bye bye. seriously i dont care about him. get someone good in. what a joke it is though that it is deemed a step up for the title winning manager of a club to be going to some no hoper club in a country the same size as the one he just left. irish football is a joke.

Dundee Uniteds average gate is approx 9,000 and they have approx 5,000 season ticket holders - in a city smaller than Cork - that has another club Dundee with a support bigger (latent anyway) than most other clubs in the LOI - course its a step up

[Acornvilla]

anyway fenlon has done as much as he probably ever can with an irish club.. theres no problem with him wanting another challenge.. best of luck to the annoying little man :)

[irishultra]

Dundee Uniteds average gate is approx 9,000 and they have approx 5,000 season ticket holders - in a city smaller than Cork - that has another club Dundee with a support bigger (latent anyway) than most other clubs in the LOI - course its a step up

it is a step up i don't deny, but the fact that is a step up is a sad inditement of football in this country. it's not like he's joining a team in a good footballing country, scottish football is a joke and dundee are one of the worst teams yet a trophy winning in ireland must go there to progress.

[Longfordian]

In fairness they're about as good as it gets outside of the Old Firm these days along with Hibs. By no means are they one of the worst teams.

[irishultra]

where are they in the league?