Irish Wolves and Opposition Irish

[Sullivinho]

I've been a bit sceptical of Stephen Hunt's technique in the past and this'l make me look right silly in that regard..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4GW5HSynOA

..but that deserves appreciation.

[Stuttgart88]

I did that once. Complete accident.

[Stuttgart88]

Are you serious?'fraid so. Apologies if I missed an industrial sized portion of sarcasm in your post. I thought you were having a dig, asking why bother to watch 6 established internationals when he'd be better off looking at new options.

[theworm2345]

'fraid so. Apologies if I missed an industrial sized portion of sarcasm in your post. I thought you were having a dig, asking why bother to watch 6 established internationals when he'd be better off looking at new options.
I found it shocking because Trap never goes to matches.

[theworm2345]

Wolves utterly atrocious today from kickoff to final whistle. Ward and Doyle started up front together but Ward got pushed back to LB at the half. Hunt came on with about 18 minutes left.

[dr_peepee]

Jayzus Wolves were unlucky. Doyle could've done with that Goal...

[theworm2345]

Doherty, Ward, Hunt, and Doyle all start for Wolves against Man City

[harry crumb]

Ward & hunt stood out.

Ward especially put in some great deliveries.

[Stuttgart88]

Ward especially put in some great deliveries.What was Moscow all about then?

[drummerboy]

I wouldn't give up on Ward becoming proficient at international level. It takes some players a while to settle in.

[paul_oshea]

If I were you I wouldn't give up on Ward becoming proficient at Premiership level.

[drummerboy]

If I were you I wouldn't give up on Ward becoming proficient at Premiership level.

He's a regular starter in the PL for 2 seasons, a fact which would seem to indicate that he is up to that standard. International football is a step further. I think he will become a decent player for Ireland. It must be difficult playing behind the likes of McGeady who is not renowned for his defensive capabilities.

[paul_oshea]

He has been playing for Wolves, who hemorrhage goals, and have done since their arrival in the PL. Wolves total conceded over their time in the Premiership must be one of the worst ever.

I really don't think playing for Wolves reaches the level of acceptance - standard/procificiency - given how weak defensively they are and have been.

[drummerboy]

He has been playing for Wolves, who hemorrhage goals, and have done since their arrival in the PL. Wolves total conceded over their time in the Premiership must be one of the worst ever.

I really don't think playing for Wolves reaches the level of acceptance - standard/procificiency - given how weak defensively they are and have been.

If you use that reasoning to judge players, what can you say about St Ledger, Kilbane, O'Dea, McShane, Foley ect. I've watched Stephen Ward play for Wolves and he has steadily improved. I watched him mark Aaron Lennon out of a game at Spurs. He has made a few mistakes along the way but he is a quick learner. He has had a handful of caps, he looked exposed against Russia, who are one of the best teams in Europe. For the sake of Ireland, lets hope he continues to learn and improve.

[ifk101]

He has made a few mistakes along the way but he is a quick learner. He has had a handful of caps, he looked exposed against Russia, who are one of the best teams in Europe. For the sake of Ireland, lets hope he continues to learn and improve.

Whatever about being exposed, his actual use of the ball in recent internationals has been (very) poor. But granted he's not the only one guilty of using the ball poorly.

[geysir]

The question is, can he improve for us?
Most of those who have watched Ward regularly enough with Wolves are reasonably confident he can improve over what we have seen so far for Ireland.

Anyway, where are all the alternative choices, players currently playing left back for their clubs?
What other orthodox LB should Trap be blooding instead of Ward?
Cunningham, Trap's favored, was on the way to achieving heirdom when he got injured.

[drummerboy]

The question is, can he improve for us?
Most of those who have watched Ward regularly enough with Wolves are reasonably confident he can improve over what we have seen so far for Ireland.

Anyway, where are all the alternative choices, players currently playing left back for their clubs?
What other orthodox LB should Trap be blooding instead of Ward?
Cunningham, Trap's favored, was on the way to achieving heirdom when he got injured.

Another alternative is Wilson who hasn't made himself available for the friendlies.

[ifk101]

If I recall correctly, Wilson was due to start at LB against the North. With the no show, Ward got in ahead of him.

[Sullivinho]

3-1 win for Wolves today, Ward on the scoresheet. Wigan have that relegation look about 'em.

[tetsujin1979]

Was listening to the match commentary on Newstalk, according to them Moses was giving Ward a terrible time, until he scored

[theworm2345]

Good to see them stop the rot before the break, it was matches like this that West Ham dropped points in that saw them relegated.

[paul_oshea]

Ward was woeful for the first goal.woeful in general micks blindness really frustrated me for Ireland.if i were a wolves fan it would seriously fruatrate me right now. I really hope we get a decent replacement in if we get past Estonia.

[tricky_colour]

Ward did great for the goal, he made it and score it, and assist (almost) and a goal, it's doesn't get much better than that!!!
Can't say i noticed him being 'woeful' but then I was only half watching, Hunt gave away their goal anyway.
Ward goal reminds me of Barcelona, he actually does look a bit like Messi.
I will see If I can find his goal. ;)

http://sportfansvideo.blogspot.com/2011/11/wolves-3-1-wigan-ohara-edwardswatson.html


Good work by Doyle too.

And nobody injured!!

[Paddy Garcia]

Ward goal reminds me of Barcelona, he actually does look a bit like Messi.


Paul agreed that he looked a bit messi too.

[geysir]

It was a poor challenge by Hunt to give away the penalty. Ward is one of Wolves' better players, his 1st half wasn't his best though.
Hard game to watch.

[paul_oshea]

It was a poor challenge and something like a last ditch effort because ward had let him slip inside him too easy and hunt was coming back in to cover/fix

[ifk101]

Yes paul_oshea. It was Ward's mistake that lead to the penalty.

[Manc Irish Wolf]

Ward was woeful for the first goal.woeful in general micks blindness really frustrated me for Ireland.if i were a wolves fan it would seriously fruatrate me right now. I really hope we get a decent replacement in if we get past Estonia.

Jesus! Paul, you're constant Ward baiting in a vain effort to be proved right is becoming tiresome. He had a difficult time in the first half - however playing 4-3-3 with Moses (who is one of their better player) coming in off the wing is difficult for any fullback to deal with. The magnitude of the game, possibly lead to us sitting back a bit too much early on giving Moses a chance to run at Ward - however a full back is not going to win the exchange every time - even the great Dennis Irwin got beaten on occassion. Ward rectified the situation in the 2nd half when he advanced a lot better, linked up with Jarvis and got into his stride culminating in avery clever backheel finished with the goal which sealed the points, displaying an attitude and determination that has widely seen him recognised as our best player so far this season and an early candidate for player of the season.

As for the Penalty, he got beaten, however Hunty was there to cover - and should have stood him up rather than dive in rashly - it was not a last ditch tackle whatsoever, simply over-exhuberance by Hunt.

Finally, thought Doyle had his best game for a while for us as well yesterday. He thives in a 4-5-1 formation and whilst it can be frustrating to see the lone striker pull out to the wing so often, tactically it is astute bearing in mind that it drags a central defender out and creates space for the on-rushing attaching midfielders as he did yesterday with O'Hara. Not sure how it's going to pan out accommodating him and Fletcher (probabaly the better natural finisher) as 4-5-1 looks like our best formation right now. Would quite like to see Doyle coming in off the left wing - to make a fluid 4-3-3 - as he did at Reading.

A few views of the Irish Boys from those that went...

7 - Ward - My favourite wolves player atm for his sheer consistancy and passion for WWFC. He dealt with Moses better than Stearman. Still had a tough time against Wigan's main threat. Scored too. If he keeps this up he'll be my player of the season

Doyle & Ward were reliable as ever and I thought Stearman had a few good passages of play even though RB is obviously not his position.

Johnson apart from that mistake had a decent game but my MoTT is for jarvis, closely followed by doyle.

Ward - 7- Solid and reliable performance from Wardinho as always, and took his goal well.

Doyle - 6- Needs to be dropped IMO. Non-existent for long periods of the game

Response - Drop Doyle?! $$$$ing hell you're on drugs! You're nuts

Doyle was class today

Doyle played a top class target man role yet again and it doesn't matter if we runs the channels as well because Edwards, JOH & Gued do have the nous to get into the box and did that.

Doyle's control for the first goal was trademark quality.

Ward - 7- Ward was solid in defence and got a vital goal. The player always gives his all for the shirt and club.

Ward. Scored again, but I think he was below his average standard in the first half. 6

I still struggle to see, apart from comedy value, why Hunt starts. He didnt help Ward against Moses today and did give away the penalty.

For David Edwards read Stephen Ward. Hopefully he'll soon get the plaudits Wardy's getting now when his detractors get their heads out of their arses

[drummerboy]

Have to agree think Paul seems to have an obsession with Ward.

[geysir]

Can Hunt tackle or does he just clatter into players?
That penalty he gave away was just clueless defending in the box.

[paul_oshea]

The only obsession I have is trying to point out to people something that he is not, which many seem to get confused about.

i can see how that could be seen as baiting, if not observed correctly.

[geysir]

It has just been pointed out to you that you appear obsessed by your perception of Ward's failings. And now you blame others for being confused and not as acutely aware as you are.
We will be watching carefully on your future conduct in this matter :)
Considering that Wolves have been struggling (this season and last) and putting in some poor performances, is it not strange that Ward is one of a few players who escape the wrath of Wolves' fans? He has consistently received acclaim for his performances. For us, Ward has deserved criticism, I doubt if there is anyone who has ignored that, but tend to look forward to him playing better.
You appear to confuse the opinion that he needs a few more games for us, that he can play better, as totally ignoring his failings. And only you can foresee the truth that he will be a fatal/total failure at left back.

[dr_peepee]

Was there not a period last year where Ward was getting it off the Wolves fans?? McCarthy made reference to it in his recent rant at the fans after he got it in the ear during the Swansea game. It was put to McCarthy that maybe the booing of him inspired him to make the changes that resulted in the 2 goal pull back

He said something along the lines of vehemently making sure that the moronic booing fans don't deserve any credit or have any baring on his decisions, or people like Wards current good form lest it be percieved that their booing have some sort of positive consequence.... Or something to that effect.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not convinced by Ward I have to say. However, in the absence of anyone obviously better I'm happy enough with him as a stop gap / versatile squad player.

Before I remembered he had served his suspension (I thought he was out for the first leg) I was really concerned about our full back options. I'm pleased enough that Kelly & Ward are both likely to start. David Pleat was very positive about Kelly on R5 Live yesterday.

[Kingdom]

What I like about Kell's, is that if he messes up, scratch that, if a goal/opportunity comes from his side, it's not because of a lack of concentration, being rash or being flash with the ball, it's because the opponent is better than him. I suppose you'd call that honesty. He'll compete as long as the day, and he won't be beaten in a battle.
Estonia seem to be a brutish team, so I'm happy enough to have Ward and Kelly as our full backs.

[dr_peepee]

To be honest.. O'Hallaran and Cunningham aside, everybody else in recent years has had a part time or stop gap feel about their status as left full.

When they were there for their breif apearances, it felt, to me anyway, that the position was theirs for the taking.

[paul_oshea]

On this matter?

Ya geysir, I'm more than happy to be proved wrong as you (were about mccarthy and macedonia and playing the away leg) when it comes to Irish players if they prove me wrong for the good. I don't know how long we have to wait and see though really....anyone could hold out for that - which is what I'm getting at, he is old enough, playing PL football and in and around the Irish squad for long enough.

[Kingdom]

To be honest.. O'Hallaran and Cunningham aside, everybody else in recent years has had a part time or stop gap feel about their status as left full.

When they were there for their breif apearances, it felt, to me anyway, that the position was theirs for the taking.

Thats exactly how I would feel about it.
Versatility is good - to an extent - but I'd prefer out-and-out players in their positions for the foireann naisunta.
O'Shea, Wilson, Ward, O'Dea, Killer, all stop-gaps. I think thats why when a player such as O'Halloran, Cunningham or even Alan maybury (remember him!) come along, that they're given more latitude, because if they settle then they're probably a better fit than the others.
Cunningham certainly would be a major fillip if he can resume where his broken leg left off.

haven't seen as much of Tierney, is he worth a shot in the friendlies?

[SwanVsDalton]

To be honest.. O'Hallaran and Cunningham aside, everybody else in recent years has had a part time or stop gap feel about their status as left full.

When they were there for their breif apearances, it felt, to me anyway, that the position was theirs for the taking.

True. I'm happy enough with Ward for now. He's displayed some obvious shortcomings, but by all accounts he's a player who continues to improve and I'm convinced when he settles a little bit he'll offer more balance and go-forward than Killer. For now he's our best option and his attitude is really excellent.

Have to say I'm really quite happy to see Kelly play as well. He was a little shaky on the left against Armenia, but since his horror show against Georgia a few years ago I think he's been very consistent whenever he's played. I'm a big fan of natural full-backs and he's capable of getting forward with pace and intent if he's allowed to.

[SkStu]

Ward - 7- Solid and reliable performance from Wardinho as always, and took his goal well.

Great post as ever MIW though the quoted bit obviously a concern. Saddling players with a Brazilian nickname = ironic p!sstake!!! ;)

On another note, compare the feelings (mostly negative) about Ward this year compared to the clamour last year for his inclusion (except, to be fair to him, Colbert Report). Its so typical of this message board.

[drummerboy]

It takes a while for most players to settle into international football. Ward has been converted to full back in recent years but his performances have continued to improve at club level. He needs to bring that improvement to international football. Perhaps if he had have been blooded earlier in friendlies, he would have been well settled in by now.

[Manc Irish Wolf]

Ward is improving and incrementally becoming a better player season by season. As you mention he started off getting booed by a section of Wolves "Supporters" following his transition to Left Wing, then Left Back a couple of seasons ago. However, his determination and willingness to learn has resulted in an absolute transition with the fans, so much so that having previously been the boo boys favourite dubbed "Son of Mick" I heard various remarks around me yesterday saying how he should be made Captain as "he's the only one who tries".

Even when we went to 1-1 and could have potentially toppled, he was the one taking the game to them with his marauding runs. I'm not saying that he is Paulo Maldini by any stretch of the imagination, however attack is the best form of defence and rather than getting beat by his first half performance, he had the strength of mind to fight on and provide a much better performance in the 2nd half. You could see the way that he ran into the fans and how well he was received by them to see how much the fans now love him. We appreciate that he is not the best left back in the world, however he is a good, intelligent, progressively improving footballer and his fight and determinantion are second to none (the latter of which is the most important thing to me when ever I see someone playing in an Ireland Shirt).

Also Paul, when you ask how long have we got to wait and see? - Ask yourself how many has he played in a settled defence considering we haven't played the same back 4 once in the last 5-6 games (this may not be completely accurate, however isn't far wrong). Also, it takes time to build partnerships with wingers on the flank.

Finally, it appears that we're giving a trial to Grahan Cummins of Cork City, so we might have another Irishman in the ranks. Does anybody know much about him? Or, think that he'd make the grade?

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/cork-city-star-cummins-set-for-trial-at-wolves-2927628.html?

[SwanVsDalton]

I have to say the thing about Ward that most impressed me is his willingness to get on the ball. Particularly I remember when half the team appeared to be hiding against Slovakia, Ward continually offered Given an out ball and he more often than not drove forward with purpose. He didn't always use it brilliantly but he stood out compared to some more experienced players who didn't appear to want to know. Moreover Ward had a totally out of sorts McGeady in front of him that game.

[tetsujin1979]

It takes a while for most players to settle into international football. Ward has been converted to full back in recent years but his performances have continued to improve at club level. He needs to bring that improvement to international football. Perhaps if he had have been blooded earlier in friendlies, he would have been well settled in by now.And if my auntie had balls...

[SwanVsDalton]

Perhaps if he had have been blooded earlier in friendlies, he would have been well settled in by now.

He was blooded in friendlies. Don't think we really have the squad depth to give people 5/6 friendlies, he played in two and proved himself ready for a competitive game.

[geysir]

On this matter?

Ya geysir, I'm more than happy to be proved wrong as you (were about mccarthy and macedonia and playing the away leg) when it comes to Irish players if they prove me wrong for the good. I don't know how long we have to wait and see though really....anyone could hold out for that - which is what I'm getting at, he is old enough, playing PL football and in and around the Irish squad for long enough.
You are focussed on people being right and being wrong, most things are guesswork at best, depending on a myriad of factors which you can't predict.

I don't know what you are on about McCarthy. He turned up, he wasn't good enough then, though he was given a tough ask. He didn't turn up after that and now he can barely get into the squad and no one is complaining that he should start ahead of the others. Simply, he is not good enough to start and nothing to do with Trap not liking his style of play or Trap's ultra conservative approach.

[Stuttgart88]

Also Paul, when you ask how long have we got to wait and see?
Paul may well be right (or wrong), and who knows how long it'll take. Anyone here interested in economic history (you should be given the state of the world!)? It reminds me of John Maynard Keynes' riposte to Hayek, who contended that if a laissez-faire approach is taken, the Great Depression will cure itself given long enough. Keynes replied "in the long run we're all dead".

Hayek would say that left in the side long enough Ward will be found out. Keynes would have said "the alternative is an even worse left back".

[tricky_colour]

I think people should remember that Hunt won a penalty as well as gave away one.

1+-1=0.

Well he would have had a penalty if he had 'dived' anyway, but he should have had one anyway. Very rare to see such honesty in the game.

Secondly if it were not for Hunt Wolves would be in the Championship.

The also did a very nice back heel, something Wolves appear to have been practising!

[tricky_colour]

Can Hunt tackle or does he just clatter into players?
That penalty he gave away was just clueless defending in the box.

Moses clattered into Hunt ;)

[theworm2345]

Moses clattered into Hunt ;)
That was Boyce...