Lansdowne Road Redevelopment Thread

[Dodge]

well to be honest, for the case of ireland v england there would be far more money and resources provided to combat this. EL games wouldn't have this presence due to money being provided by the clubs for garda resources.....:)

Not sure the point you're making POS but I'd guess that in a garda v fan ratio there's more cops in and around Richmond/Dalymount/Tolka for any big Dublin derby thtan there is on an international night (all of which the club pay for...) and they still haven't a clue what to do

[Macy]

well to be honest, for the case of ireland v england there would be far more money and resources provided to combat this. EL games wouldn't have this presence due to money being provided by the clubs for garda resources.....:)
It's not a question of resources. There's more than enough cops to deal with any trouble at league games, they simply haven't the competence to police it properly. Not just football, you could use other examples of their crowd control - the GAA game in Cork last weekend, reclaim the streets a few years ago, the Love Ulster debacle, at various points in the shell to sea protests... They haven't a clue.

[Lionel Ritchie]

You are correct that we sing a lot about our history, but we don't do in a way to insult people.

Oh please.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=zH8CQxL5lRs

Though I acknowledge -if it's the worst they get up to...

[Greenforever]

The Gardai are crap at policing football. They're clueless. Every incident around grounds I can think of in the league here have an element of police incompetence - not keeping one set of fans in, not policing specific well known flash points etc. It's more of an issue than the behaviour of opposition fans imo - they'll only do what they'll get let.


typical blame the cops, if the fans knew how to behave they wouldnt be needed, so if you get let start a riot, it's ok to riot:rolleyes:

not saying the cops are great at policing but if fans went to support their team and nothing else they wouldnt be needed.

[Dodge]

typical blame the cops, if the fans knew how to behave they wouldnt be needed, so if you get let start a riot, it's ok to riot:rolleyes:

not saying the cops are great at policing but if fans went to support their team and nothing else they wouldnt be needed.

Yeah but in the real world, idiots exist. If nobody wanted to steal, rape or murder we wouldn't need cops either. They are needed, and can't do the job at football.

[Macy]

typical blame the cops, if the fans knew how to behave they wouldnt be needed, so if you get let start a riot, it's ok to riot:rolleyes:
If no one broke the law we wouldn't need cops at all - stupid logic. The Gardai are not capable of policing crowds - I gave other examples rather than just football. Or am I missing something and the Cork Gah crowd are notorious hoolies?

[paul_oshea]

It's not a question of resources. There's more than enough cops to deal with any trouble at league games, they simply haven't the competence to police it properly. Not just football, you could use other examples of their crowd control - the GAA game in Cork last weekend, reclaim the streets a few years ago, the Love Ulster debacle, at various points in the shell to sea protests... They haven't a clue.

ya fair point, a catalogue of shambles. I think it stems from the "what might your name be now" syndrome.....:rolleyes:

[irishultra]

So, the Bertie Bowl or the redeveloped Lansdowne?

Anyone think they need to build a smaller(30,000) capacity stadium in like Cork for some friendlies?

[Dodge]

Anyone think they need to build a smaller(30,000) capacity stadium in like Cork for some friendlies?

And do what with it the rest of the year? I'd prefer 3 or 4 10,000 seaters if we're talking pie in the sky projects

[Macy]

Anyone think they need to build a smaller(30,000) capacity stadium in like Cork for some friendlies?
I'd say they'll tie down block bookers to cover friendlies, so it won't be an issue. Advance sales will be king for both football and rugby.

[Schumi]

Anyone think they need to build a smaller(30,000) capacity stadium in like Cork for some friendlies?There's more block-bookers than that so it'd make no sense. If they want a smaller provincial venue, the new Thomand Park would be ideal anyway.

[Hibernian]

There's more block-bookers than that so it'd make no sense. If they want a smaller provincial venue, the new Thomand Park would be ideal anyway.

If Thomand Park had extra 10-15,000 it would be better.

Think its still too small myself

[kingdomkerry]

It has 26,000, an extra 10-15,000 is close to Lansdownes capacity.

[boovidge]

yes but much of that capacity is terracing.

[Dodge]

If Thomand Park had extra 10-15,000 it would be better.

Think its still too small myself

Its fine for its needs

[kingdomkerry]

Terracing is allowed in friendlies. I think

[boovidge]

unfortunately it's not.

[Greenforever]

unfortunately it's not.


It is, the only reason they had the seats in for the Brazil and Serbia games is the higher revenue. The IRFU left them in as well for the same reason.

[Buller]

So, the Bertie Bowl or the redeveloped Lansdowne?

Anyone think they need to build a smaller(30,000) capacity stadium in like Cork for some friendlies?

Cork City FC?

[kingdomkerry]

Cork City are talking about their own 25,000 stadium. Pairc UI Caoimh is getting old and Munster are spending a fortune on Musgrave Park.

Why not kill three birds with the one stone and build a state of the art 30,000 all purpose stadium?

[irishultra]

Well in fairness with the summer football clashing with the GAA it would be near impossible right?

[Greenforever]

Cork City are talking about their own 25,000 stadium. Pairc UI Caoimh is getting old and Munster are spending a fortune on Musgrave Park.

Why not kill three birds with the one stone and build a state of the art 30,000 all purpose stadium?


Pairc Ui Caoimh probably holds the guts of 40,000 already and the GAA would probably want bigger not smaller, however Im sure they would take anything for nothing

[Buller]

Cork City are talking about their own 25,000 stadium. Pairc UI Caoimh is getting old and Munster are spending a fortune on Musgrave Park.

Why not kill three birds with the one stone and build a state of the art 30,000 all purpose stadium?

Because GAA senior size pitches are way too big > especially for smaller stadiums - a football pitch would just be too far away... Also - Munster have Thomand now, why would they need another 30,000 seater in cork? It would cost a lot more than what they are doing with Musgrave now...

[kingdomkerry]

Well leave GAA out. Munster and Cork Citys resources together could produce one great stadium rather than 2 alright ones

[kingdomkerry]

According to todays Star the FAI will have to borrow between 10 to 25 million to pay for their share of the development.

[Jinxy]

It's not a question of resources. There's more than enough cops to deal with any trouble at league games, they simply haven't the competence to police it properly. Not just football, you could use other examples of their crowd control - the GAA game in Cork last weekend, reclaim the streets a few years ago, the Love Ulster debacle, at various points in the shell to sea protests... They haven't a clue.

Completely inaccurate. In fact, speaking to people who were at the game if the cops hadn't acted as quickly as they did it could have got very dicey. Poor stewarding and dopey fans were to blame for that one. As for the other things you mention, are you seriously referring to the Love Ulster riot as a crowd control issue?

[ifk101]

http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/photocategory.asp?PCID=34&NCID=68

Starting to take shape now.

[paul_oshea]

indeed though the pitch looks like it floods :D

[cavan_fan]

indeed though the pitch looks like it floods :D

lets hope we draw turkey then

[kingdomkerry]

They seem to put pictures up every month and every month shows huge improvements.

[amaccann]

You can really see it flying up at this stage - it's all getting quite exciting! :D

[Macy]

Completely inaccurate. In fact, speaking to people who were at the game if the cops hadn't acted as quickly as they did it could have got very dicey. Poor stewarding and dopey fans were to blame for that one.
So the cops have no say in how events are organised? The cops on the ground might have reacted well to the developing situation, but they would've been involved in the planning/ approving the plan for event too.


As for the other things you mention, are you seriously referring to the Love Ulster riot as a crowd control issue?
Yes.

[Wolfie]

I'm glad they've managed to get this far. Thought it could never happen at one stage.

Deffo need a home - Croker doesn't seem to suit us so far.

[Jinxy]

Will the FAI still be able to pay their share after ISG pulling out of the ticket deal? Paul Hyland (I know, the Heddild is a rag) suggested that the IRFU would gladly ditch them and go it alone if there were any financial hitches. Apologies if this was discussed elsewhere and I missed it.

[kingdomkerry]

I brought it up in an earlier post but nobody took any notice. I doubt the IRFU would go alone as it would cost them millions more and they would still probably have to leave the FAI use it.

[Greenforever]

I brought it up in an earlier post but nobody took any notice. I doubt the IRFU would go alone as it would cost them millions more and they would still probably have to leave the FAI use it.

The IRFU would only be too glad to go it alone. They have the reserves and own a huge tract of land at Newlands Cross that would buy out the FAI in the morning. They would be as happy as pigs in s****, as the govt would never have given them €190m to rebuild as sole owners, but the state wont cough up the shortfall now, so ownership would revert to the IRFU if the FAI pulled out.

[geysir]

The IRFU would only be too glad to go it alone. They have the reserves and own a huge tract of land at Newlands Cross that would buy out the FAI in the morning.
Are you not getting way ahead of yourself like the Herald?

The FAI's asset is still in place namely the advance sale of the 10 year tickets.
There are still 10,000 premium tickets to be sold, of course their sales depend on the amount of demand for such tickets.

It looked to be a bad deal for ISG.
Buying all the (non returnable)10,000 tickets in advance for €9k each.


They would be as happy as pigs in s****, as the govt would never have given them €190m to rebuild as sole owners, but the state wont cough up the shortfall now, so ownership would revert to the IRFU if the FAI pulled out.
Maybe you know the terms of the contract, all parties signed some document and their obligations are spelled out
Are the Government obliged to the project or the parties in the project?
The FAI brought their share of the taxpayers money to the project.

Where do you get the idea from that the IRFU would be happy as pigs in shíte if they have to pay out another €100m at least, for a stadium that won't realise an extra financial return on that massive extra unplanned investment.

[Greenforever]

Are you not getting way ahead of yourself like the Herald?

The FAI's asset is still in place namely the advance sale of the 10 year tickets.
There are still 10,000 premium tickets to be sold, of course their sales depend on the amount of demand for such tickets.

It looked to be a bad deal for ISG.
Buying all the (non returnable)10,000 tickets in advance for €9k each.


Maybe you know the terms of the contract, all parties signed some document and their obligations are spelled out
Are the Government obliged to the project or the parties in the project?
The FAI brought their share of the taxpayers money to the project.

Where do you get the idea from that the IRFU would be happy as pigs in shíte if they have to pay out another €100m at least, for a stadium that won't realise an extra financial return on that massive extra unplanned investment.

I never said the FAI wouldn't raise thier share of the money, I was merely responding to the question asked.

The state will not invest any more funds, so if the FAI were unable to come up with the funds you would either have to abandon the project or let someone else finish it. There is no way the IRFU will walk away.

IF the IRFU did finish the stadium they would get 100% of the rental revenue from all events held in the stadium and the FAI would be back to paying rent. So you're comment they won't realise an extra financial return is wrong.

If I was asked for my opinion I would have said that the FAI will fall short on thier side and be forced to raise additional loans to pay thier share. I do believe they will raise the money but some of it will be borrowed, unkie the IRFU who have the assets without having to borrow.

[geysir]

I think you might have an unrealistic view of the IRFU finances.
The IRFU could have become rich if it could have sold Lansdowne Road for zillions and built a stadium out in Newlands.

You remember all the talk about axing Rugby in Connaght, it was not the talk of a cash rich Union.
AFAIA the FAI generate more profit on turnover and the IRFU are struggling to break even.
The IRFU hope to raise the €90m with advance sales of premium tickets the same way as the FAI. I'd guess there would be a similar demand for both. The FAI and the IRFU are in the same boat.
Then there are the box seats.

The Newlands 90 acres, what is it worth now even if it was rezoned?
For the IRFU to pay the FAI's share, sell Newlands, borrow the rest - *€60m? imo the extra income gained by being sole owner from events would not cover repayments.

It's in the interests of both sports that they share the stadium construction costs and free up income for development of the sports.

[Greenforever]

I think you might have an unrealistic view of the IRFU finances.
The IRFU could have become rich if it could have sold Lansdowne Road for zillions and built a stadium out in Newlands.

You remember all the talk about axing Rugby in Connaght, it was not the talk of a cash rich Union.
AFAIA the FAI generate more profit on turnover and the IRFU are struggling to break even.
The IRFU hope to raise the €90m with advance sales of premium tickets the same way as the FAI. I'd guess there would be a similar demand for both. The FAI and the IRFU are in the same boat.
Then there are the box seats.

The Newlands 90 acres, what is it worth now even if it was rezoned?
For the IRFU to pay the FAI's share, sell Newlands, borrow the rest - *€60m? imo the extra income gained by being sole owner from events would not cover repayments.

It's in the interests of both sports that they share the stadium construction costs and free up income for development of the sports.


The IRFU have sold all thier corporate tickets and the money in sitting in their bank, they had more than double the number of applications than tickets available. Their ticket prices were also significantly higher than what the FAI are looking for.

Newlands has been valued in excess of E200m.

The Connaught situation is different in that they were not willing to use thier assets fo fund current spending, which is very sensible.

[Kingdom]

I'm really looking forward to the new Lansdowne, can't wait to go back there. It'll be nice to have a sense of permanence when we're back. Just hope I've decent seats :D

[geysir]

The IRFU have sold all thier corporate tickets and the money in sitting in their bank, they had more than double the number of applications than tickets available. Their ticket prices were also significantly higher than what the FAI are looking for.

If the IRFU have sold their 10,000 premium seats and have had double the number of applicants then the FAI should have no problem selling their cheaper tickets when they go on the market.

[Greenforever]

If the IRFU have sold their 10,000 premium seats and have had double the number of applicants then the FAI should have no problem selling their cheaper tickets when they go on the market.


There is not the same corporate demand for soccer as there is Rugby.

Pre Croke Park, the maximum attendance in Lansdowne was around 48K for Rugby and tickets were always like golddust, they are only getting a marginal increase in capacity of less than 5%.

Pre Croke Park the maximum attendance at a qualifier for soccer was 36,000 and there were very few games with a huge unmet demand for tickets. The capacity for soccer is to increase by in excess of 33%. If I was a rugby fan and could afford a 10 yr ticket I would buy one because tockets are alwyas scarce, however I will not be buying a 10 year ticket for soccer as im on the block booking and have been since day 1 and am guaranteed tickets. It's a harsh fact but soccer is not as popular here as rugby when it comes to fans parting with their cash.

The FAI have always struggled to sell long term tickets and will do so in the future. They will IMO however come up with the funds needed to finish the stadium even if it means mortgaging future sponsorhip funds or expensive bank loans.

[geysir]

The 10 year premium seats are not geared at the same block booker wannabe. It's a different market.
This is a €1200 pa ticket.
The FAI have said that they have done their market research on the demand for this type of ticket and are satisfied that more than enough demand exist.
I have no reason to doubt them, yet.
Even if there is only a 50% take up on the premium seats, the FAI should still have enough cash in hand to pay their share of the stadium costs without having to take bank loans.

[Greenforever]

The 10 year premium seats are not geared at the same block booker wannabe. It's a different market.
This is a €1200 pa ticket.
The FAI have said that they have done their market research on the demand for this type of ticket and are satisfied that more than enough demand exist.
I have no reason to doubt them, yet.
Even if there is only a 50% take up on the premium seats, the FAI should still have enough cash in hand to pay their share of the stadium costs without having to take bank loans.


I think you're missing my points

Your average rugby fan is far from guaranteed tickets due to excess demand and this is why the IRFU had a massive oversubscription for their tickets.

If there was a definite demand for tickets at €12,000 you can be sure someone would block buy all of them for a 25% discount.

The FAI will be very lucky to sell 10% of the tickets available. Corporates look for value for money, and there is no value in this. The reality is with 5 qualifers every 2 years the most there will be is 1 major match of interest to corporates per year equalling €1,200 a ticket, paid 10 years in advance, and they can buy a VIP match macket from the FAI's corporate hospitality partners for about €500 per match including meal and drinks reception.

I'm sorry but it's a no brainer and there is not going to be a queue of people looking for these tickets.

I still say they will raise the money in other ways and will complete the project on time.

[Schumi]

Pre Croke Park, the maximum attendance in Lansdowne was around 48K for Rugby and tickets were always like golddustThere's no doubting that rugby internationals have a bigger corporate interest than football but the scarcity of tickets is overstated. It's only games against France, England and Southern Hemisphere teams that are very hard to get tickets for. There are usually tickets floating around for 6-Nations games against Wales, Scotland or Italy unless there's something big at stake like the Triple Crown game against Scotland a couple of years ago.

[cavan_fan]

There's no doubting that rugby internationals have a bigger corporate interest than football but the scarcity of tickets is overstated. It's only games against France, England and Southern Hemisphere teams that are very hard to get tickets for. There are usually tickets floating around for 6-Nations games against Wales, Scotland or Italy unless there's something big at stake like the Triple Crown game against Scotland a couple of years ago.

This is the problem the FAI face. The rugby team only play against established top 10 teams, there are no matches against Romania etc. Almost all matches are to an extent glamour ties (either because they are part of a 6 nations we could win) or because they are against recognised top 4 teams. So you know that you are getting tickets for these games.

The football team however have far more games against less glamorous teams. Looking at WC qualifying only Italy and (maybe) Bulagria are in any way glamorous. That's less than half the games. Add to that the fact that people know friendlies are a bit of a farce and maybe 25% of home internationals will appeal to people outside real fans. The only way to sell all tickets is for Ireland themselves to be a big draw and that is why success is so important.

[geysir]

Don't he IRFU just have 2 or 3 home competitive 6 nation games a year plus maybe one high profile friendly.
Basically the FAI were allowed into new Lansdowne as part owners because of the €95m taxpayers money that follows them.
The IRFU know what to expect from them as they have been sharing a ground for 35 years.
The FAI are contracted to contribute about 1/2 of what the IRFU are, so maybe that reflects the demand and value for their premium tickets.
Selling 5,000 ten year premium seats, some of the 1,500 box seats, some naming rights money should cover the FAI's slice

[Noelys Guitar]

Money problems for the FAI?
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=34105-qqqx=1.asp

[Jinxy]

Not a great time to be trying to shift a load of 10 year tickets.